Advocates to Force Marriage Debate in Finland

[JockBoy87]

Citizens of Finland may force parliamentary debate if they gather 50,000 signatures. Gay advocacy group Tahdon2013 intends to start on March 19.

A parliamentary committee in Finland narrowly rejected an equal marriage bill 9-8 on February 27. The vote appears to be remarkably mixed, with members from the center-right coalition and the opposition on both sides.

http://yle.fi/uutiset/parliamentary_...rriage/6515889

A January 2013 poll [url] of Finns found support at 57%. Finland and some independent islands remain the only Nordic countries without equal marriage, the others being Sweden, Norway, Iceland, and Denmark.

[rareboy]

Interesting that some of the most liberal and uninhibited protestant countries in Europe are actually some of the most inhibited and reactionary countries in Europe.

[Chrizze]

Don't make assumptions about whole nation,..if americans have republicans,so do we,..sort of.One thing: - we have church,that is not separated from state,...far from that.Reverends are civil servants,for example,and if you are member of the church,church is having tax collection right,which they use.All cemeteries are run and owned by state church,..if you are not member,they put very high price for their services...that is sole reason for many to be a member of a state church..to get married in church,and be buried at cheaper price,when you die,...and all other services in between.I live here,and there is three reverends,that I know personally,and few deacons too.

[JockBoy87]

Don't make assumptions about whole nation,..if americans have republicans,so do we,..sort of.One thing: - we have church,that is not separated from state,...far from that.Reverends are civil servants,for example,and if you are member of the church,church is having tax collection right,which they use.All cemeteries are run and owned by state church,..if you are not member,they put very high price for their services...that is sole reason for many to be a member of a state church..to get married in church,and be buried at cheaper price,when you die,...and all other services in between.I live here,and there is three reverends,that I know personally,and few deacons too.

Lutheran churches in my state are welcoming and progressive, though honestly I have no idea how they are in Finland.

I do know that support in the committee was down to the wire. It lost by one vote. The bill also has 76 sponsors, which is a lot in a Parliament of 200. There is usually much more support in lawmaking bodies for a cause than the number of sponsors. In the committee, there were only six sponsors, despite eight votes in favor. If you apply that ratio to all parliament members, passage would be by one vote. [source]

Since the co-sponsorship drive took place last year, nobody knows what the prospects look like now. It will be wait and see who steps forward as Tahdon collects those signatures.

Interesting that some of the most liberal and uninhibited protestant countries in Europe are actually some of the most inhibited and reactionary countries in Europe.

Right wing governments can really choke progress.

Denmark did not have equal marriage until last year, despite being the first country in the world to have domestic partnerships, in 1989.

Germany is also struggling to provide equal benefits with Merkel's coalition in the Bundestag.

[Chrizze]

Lutheran church in Finland,is schizophrenic,to put it simple.All reverends I know,and other people working in church,are progressive,but there are few assholes here,and there,but they are so louder."all that is needed for evil to triumph,is that good men do nothing"i think,that that fits the situation,..and remember this: - it is STATE CHURCH.so,it is about their official policy about the issue.Generally,they don't want to piss off the assholes,which are,by the way two political parties,Christian Democratic Party,and those new,ultra right wing "true finns" party... Its name is really literally translated "basic finns",but that name,"true finns",is used in English language media,because that sounds so ridiculious literally,and it sounds just as ridiculous in Finnish too.their leader,Timo Soini,is ultra orthodox roman catholic,which is quite rare thing in Finland,..I though,that we kicked them out here on 15th century,..but few remained,I see.That man is giving us a really bad name,..do not believe anything he says,he is all bullshit.

[JockBoy87]

Fortunately the Church of Finland does not govern the country. No bill has to mandate that marriages take place in the state church either. The bill under consideration for England doesn't.

In the end, Finland is a liberalized protestant country that has more in common with its Nordic neighbors than its Baltic or Slavic ones. Finland had registered partnerships in 2002, well before many other countries and US states. Marriage equality is inevitable there.

[Chrizze]

Genetically,culturally,and historically,half of finnish people are nordic,and half more to slavic.
Check this out: - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Nöteborg

Our language has nothing to do with other nordic countries,no more than English,and Chinese,for example.neither with russian.estonian language,and finnish are like spanish,and portuguese.and Hungary is very distant relative.

[Chrizze]

For the record,I have nothing bad to say about our state-church,.. In light of my personal experience,.."don't bite the hand that feeds you" ..I am not a member,but since I know reverends,and deacons personally,I got personally tailored service. They give me a coupon worth of 30€,at routine basis,every month,that can be used to buy food from designated grocery store nearby.And when my mother passed away last summer,social services paid for basic level funeral services,coffin included.(they do this for everyone,whose income is down below a designated level)..but not a headstone.. But church will provide white wooden cross,that lasts about five years..time to save money for a headstone.I basically "inherited" my mother's good relations with deacons..and she inherited them from her late husband,that passed away ten years ago,(not my father).

[Chrizze]

It is possible,that some of you may have heard,that Finland is one the least corrupted nations in the world,..and that is true,there is no "banana-state"style corruption..don't try to wave a 500€ bill in front of a civil servant,or police,..you will land to jail in no time.But there is built-in corruption in society...you can't advance in your career,or life in general,for that matter,unless you have right connections.who you know,and who knows you,is most crucial thing on all important matters.

[JockBoy87]

It is possible,that some of you may have heard,that Finland is one the least corrupted nations in the world,..and that is true,there is no "banana-state"style corruption..don't try to wave a 500€ bill in front of a civil servant,or police,..you will land to jail in no time.But there is built-in corruption in society...you can't advance in your career,or life in general,for that matter,unless you have right connections.who you know,and who knows you,is most crucial thing on all important matters.

Networking isn't necessarily cronyism. If helping your associates with position is meritorious, you are exercising good judgment by delegating responsibility to someone who is trustworthy and competent. If you present yourself as such, you are going to get ahead in a meritocracy. Cronyism I think is partiality to your associates regardless of merit.

[Chrizze]

That's it,regardless of merit,for example,in that Heavy industry factory,where my father made his career,all new jobs were allocated to sons or daughters of someone,that is currently working there.That was the merit required: -virtue of being born. We call that built-in corruption a "good-ol'brothers"-network.

[JockBoy87]

That's it,regardless of merit,for example,in that Heavy industry factory,where my father made his career,all new jobs were allocated to sons or daughters of someone,that is currently working there.That was the merit required: -virtue of being born. We call that built-in corruption a "good-ol'brothers"-network.

Nepotism is all too common. In the worst case, incompetent family members ends up with people losing their jobs.

[JockBoy87]

This is the latest announcement, but the language barrier being what it is, we are oh so dependent on native speakers *hint hint.

http://www.tahdon2013.fi/uutiset/alo...tusilmoitusta/

[scream4ever]

Well that was quick lol

[JockBoy87]

Well that was quick lol

They are at 76,000 and counting on the first day. Quick, but there was substantial notice for a few weeks. It is also an online petition, which is interesting because that is awfully easy to send a bill to parliament.

[JockBoy87]

The Speaker of Parliament has issued new guidelines on the initiative process that was instituted last year.

Parliament will appoint a committee that will set up a meeting process and make a recommendation on the marriage initiative. The committee will have a maximum six months to accomplish and announce their plans according to these new rules.

We could see a recommendation by the end of this year and possibly a vote, if not then next year.

http://web.eduskunta.fi/Resource.phx.../1.htx?id=5694

[rareboy]

I can't believe that Finland is being so reactionary and resistant on this issue.

[JockBoy87]

I can't believe that Finland is being so reactionary and resistant on this issue.

Well, we are in this mess now because the committee vote failed by one, and the initiative process has never been tried before.