Be Afraid of Yoga

[JB3]

A school district in Encinitas, California has been teaching Yoga in gym class since last Fall, offering it as an elective that students can choose to participate in. Students do not have to participate, and can opt out if they choose. That apparently wasn't enough for two parents that are suing the school district, claiming that Yoga is inherently religious and the inclusion of it is violating their religious freedom.

The linked article is full of, ahem, interesting quotes by the parents and lawyers representing them, like this gem:

"This is frankly the clearest case of the state trampling on the religious freedom rights of citizens that I have personally witnessed in my 18 years of practice as a constitutional attorney," Broyles said.

The organization representing the parents claims to represent conservative values, including being anti-gay in every way you could possibly imagine, and anti-abortion.

My take? Nutjobs. All of them. Their kids don't have to take yoga if they don't want, and yoga itself has never had elements of religion for the majority of americans that practice it. It is, quite literally, all about stretching, breath, and relaxation.

If I were the judge I'd order the parents to do an hour of yoga a day, five days a week for the next year as punishment for wasting the court's time and the school district's money.

http://todaynews.today.com/_news/201...-for-kids?lite

[Just_Believe18]

Yoga is an extremely healthy form of exercise. I agree that this couple are nutjobs. Even public schools celebrate Christmas and no one is systematically banning the trees, lights, and festivities from the classrooms.

[rareboy]

Idiots.

No question.

[Benvolio]

Yoga is an extremely healthy form of exercise. I agree that this couple are nutjobs. Even public schools celebrate Christmas and no one is systematically banning the trees, lights, and festivities from the classrooms.

Where in America does the ACLU allow Christmas in school? I think that is what is going on here. Any hint of Christianity will bring on a host of lawyers, so why should other religions be allowed?

[Durango95]

Yoga is tantamount to Hindu praying. You may only see it as exercise but that was not it's original intent. I'm an nonreligious person. When I say nonreligious, I mean nonreligious and not cherry picking through the PC ones. I'd have to side with the nutjob parents on this one.

[JayQueer]

Yes, yoga as traditionally practiced is a part of Hinduism. I'm not talking about the watered-down version of yoga that's taught in "hip" neighborhoods like Boystown or Chelsea. People who really want to learn yoga travel to India so they can spend months in an ashram learning from a trained guru. If you think yoga is just some trendy exercise move, you clearly don't know what yoga is....

As a side note, I find it amusing that a lot of white gay guys in major US cities are interested or fascinated by the culture of India (yoga, Ayurvedic medicine, eating Indian food, Bollywood musicals, etc.) but they are hardly ever willing to date Indian guys. They want to experience our culture, but they don't want to be with us

[Durango95]

Yes, yoga as traditionally practiced is a part of Hinduism. I'm not talking about the watered-down version of yoga that's taught in "hip" neighborhoods like Boystown or Chelsea. People who really want to learn yoga travel to India so they can spend months in an ashram learning from a trained guru. If you think yoga is just some trendy exercise move, you clearly don't know what yoga is....

As a side note, I find it amusing that a lot of white gay guys in major US cities are interested or fascinated by the culture of India (yoga, Ayurvedic medicine, eating Indian food, Bollywood musicals, etc.) but they are hardly ever willing to date Indian guys. They want to experience our culture, but they don't want to be with us

Dude there is this one Indian guy at my gym that I would be ALL ABOUT. He's straight though.

[Rolyo85]

Yes, yoga as traditionally practiced is a part of Hinduism. I'm not talking about the watered-down version of yoga that's taught in "hip" neighborhoods like Boystown or Chelsea. People who really want to learn yoga travel to India so they can spend months in an ashram learning from a trained guru. If you think yoga is just some trendy exercise move, you clearly don't know what yoga is....

As a side note, I find it amusing that a lot of white gay guys in major US cities are interested or fascinated by the culture of India (yoga, Ayurvedic medicine, eating Indian food, Bollywood musicals, etc.) but they are hardly ever willing to date Indian guys. They want to experience our culture, but they don't want to be with us

WILL YOU FUCKING STOP WITH THE "WHITE BOYS DON'T WANT ME" WHINY BULLSHIT?! EVERY FUCKING TOPIC!

Very few people who practice Yoga, do it because they care about the culture it comes from. They do it because it's healthy exercise. Same reason why non-religious people all across the world celebrate Christmas - it's a fun holiday with exciting activities involved. I was in my late teens before ever even realizing it's a celebration of the birth of Christ. To me it was "that cool holiday with the awesome dinner and the presents".

The VIOLENTLY obvious difference between the Yoga class and observing some random Christian ritual is that one is divorced from the religion it is originally part of, and the other has no practical reason other than to feed the religion it is a part of.


Though I'm very suspicious of the claim that schools aren't allowed to celebrate Christmas...

[CowboyBob]

Yoga is tantamount to Hindu praying. You may only see it as exercise but that was not it's original intent. I'm an nonreligious person. When I say nonreligious, I mean nonreligious and not cherry picking through the PC ones. I'd have to side with the nutjob parents on this one.

You just called yourself a nutjob.

WILL YOU FUCKING STOP WITH THE "WHITE BOYS DON'T WANT ME" WHINY BULLSHIT?! EVERY FUCKING TOPIC!

<snip>

Agreed.

[rareboy]

X 3

Obviously Durango doesn't understand the concept of yoga....which is not praying. duh.

And Jayqueer. This forum isn't about the problem of an Indian guy who only wnats to date hot white guys not being found appealing by hot white guys.

[xbuzzerx]

A school district in Encinitas, California has been teaching Yoga in gym class since last Fall, offering it as an elective that students can choose to participate in. Students do not have to participate, and can opt out if they choose. That apparently wasn't enough for two parents that are suing the school district, claiming that Yoga is inherently religious and the inclusion of it is violating their religious freedom.

The linked article is full of, ahem, interesting quotes by the parents and lawyers representing them, like this gem:



The organization representing the parents claims to represent conservative values, including being anti-gay in every way you could possibly imagine, and anti-abortion.

My take? Nutjobs. All of them. Their kids don't have to take yoga if they don't want, and yoga itself has never had elements of religion for the majority of americans that practice it. It is, quite literally, all about stretching, breath, and relaxation.

If I were the judge I'd order the parents to do an hour of yoga a day, five days a week for the next year as punishment for wasting the court's time and the school district's money.

http://todaynews.today.com/_news/201...-for-kids?lite

Yoga is tantamount to Hindu praying. You may only see it as exercise but that was not it's original intent. I'm an nonreligious person. When I say nonreligious, I mean nonreligious and not cherry picking through the PC ones. I'd have to side with the nutjob parents on this one.

Yes, yoga as traditionally practiced is a part of Hinduism. I'm not talking about the watered-down version of yoga that's taught in "hip" neighborhoods like Boystown or Chelsea. People who really want to learn yoga travel to India so they can spend months in an ashram learning from a trained guru. If you think yoga is just some trendy exercise move, you clearly don't know what yoga is....

As a side note, I find it amusing that a lot of white gay guys in major US cities are interested or fascinated by the culture of India (yoga, Ayurvedic medicine, eating Indian food, Bollywood musicals, etc.) but they are hardly ever willing to date Indian guys. They want to experience our culture, but they don't want to be with us

You'd be hard pressed to find almost anything that goes back far enough that didn't have some degree of strong religious connotation or even exclusively religious expression in the past-- including art, writing, martial arts (many of the Eastern forms of which came from Buddhist militant monasteries) and a slew of other things.

Yoga being practiced as an exercise or physical discipline with no instruction of any religious belief attached to it is not religious, nor is it forcing religion on anyone anymore than you're being forced to be Buddhist when you take karate.

[Scealle]

I think practicing yoga is a good thing. How I wish they are implemented in my school back then. I would not have skipped them.
I still practices yoga once in a while, though these days it's more of a stretching to help me improve my skating!

[bankside]

As a side note, I find it amusing that a lot of white gay guys in major US cities are interested or fascinated by the culture of India (yoga, Ayurvedic medicine, eating Indian food, Bollywood musicals, etc.) but they are hardly ever willing to date Indian guys. They want to experience our culture, but they don't want to be with us

This is an insightful (and with enough self awareness, even amusing) observation about the opportunity lost to those specific white men. And courteously marked as an aside.

If I were inclined to disagree, I would probably still hold my tongue if I happened to be one of the white guys who is self-limited in his ability to appreciate south Asian traits.

[Spiff]

I've been wanting to try yoga to help lower by BP which is a bit on the high side. Been looking for videos on YouTube to help start but still haven't been able to commit to it.

[rareboy]

I want a class with only males in it....and taught by a male instructor who understands the aging male and not some lovely granola munching bulemic ballerina who will have me eating my yoga mat in despair.

[Jack Springer]

A school district in Encinitas, California has been teaching Yoga in gym class since last Fall, offering it as an elective that students can choose to participate in. Students do not have to participate, and can opt out if they choose. That apparently wasn't enough for two parents that are suing the school district, claiming that Yoga is inherently religious and the inclusion of it is violating their religious freedom.

The linked article is full of, ahem, interesting quotes by the parents and lawyers representing them, like this gem:



The organization representing the parents claims to represent conservative values, including being anti-gay in every way you could possibly imagine, and anti-abortion.

My take? Nutjobs. All of them. Their kids don't have to take yoga if they don't want, and yoga itself has never had elements of religion for the majority of americans that practice it. It is, quite literally, all about stretching, breath, and relaxation.

If I were the judge I'd order the parents to do an hour of yoga a day, five days a week for the next year as punishment for wasting the court's time and the school district's money.

http://todaynews.today.com/_news/201...-for-kids?lite

You might want to read some more about the group that is funding the money ... The JOIS Foundation and the person that came up with this particular yoga ... K. Pattabhi Jois.

http://www.nclplaw.org/wp-content/up...formation1.pdf

Separate between church and state does not only mean Christian churches.

JB -- you evidently don't have any friends or relatives with public school connections -- Christmas was kicked out of public schools years ago -- it's Winter Celebration or some other cock-and-bull name now. If any traditional Christmas songs are sung -- the words have been changed.

I assume yoga can be taught without religious tones -- but not sure if that's the way it is in this situation. The can of worms has been opened ... yoga has religious roots.

[GiancarloC]

Here we go again... with the usual sources hijacking this thread with the desperate need to point out some inconsistency. If a practice is kept secular, it's not violating anyones religious freedoms. I don't care what the right wingers on this site say... they are missing the mark as always.

[Rolyo85]

I don't think I've actually ever heard Yoga being taught WITH religious tones...

[xbuzzerx]

I don't think I've actually ever heard Yoga being taught WITH religious tones...

I'm more than certain that in the U.S. you'd have to bend over backwards to find a tiny number of places with an instructor even versed in the spiritual meaning of any of it. It's treated entirely as a new agey alternative exercise/fitness fad.

[rocabar]

I want a class with only males in it....and taught by a male instructor who understands the aging male and not some lovely granola munching bulemic ballerina who will have me eating my yoga mat in despair.

You should come to E-town then. . .


http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/01...ga-instructor/

[Jack Springer]

Here we go again... with the usual sources hijacking this thread with the desperate need to point out some inconsistency. If a practice is kept secular, it's not violating anyones religious freedoms. I don't care what the right wingers on this site say... they are missing the mark as always.

Did you even read any of the stuff I posted?

Where's your open mind?

[GiancarloC]

Did you even read any of the stuff I posted?

Where's your open mind?

It's absolute rubbish. But thanks for playing. Yoga isn't a religious practice itself. It can have a secular purpose.

[JB3]

Yoga is tantamount to Hindu praying. You may only see it as exercise but that was not it's original intent. I'm an nonreligious person. When I say nonreligious, I mean nonreligious and not cherry picking through the PC ones. I'd have to side with the nutjob parents on this one.

I don't care about its original intent, I care about (and it seems everyone here except for you and another member) its intent in this situation. If you had read the article, which it is clear you haven't, you would have read the background given on Yoga in the US. It states quite clearly that Yoga has become divorced from its religious roots, as so many of our modern traditions and practices have been.

[JB3]

You might want to read some more about the group that is funding the money ... The JOIS Foundation and the person that came up with this particular yoga ... K. Pattabhi Jois.

http://www.nclplaw.org/wp-content/up...formation1.pdf

Separate between church and state does not only mean Christian churches.

JB -- you evidently don't have any friends or relatives with public school connections -- Christmas was kicked out of public schools years ago -- it's Winter Celebration or some other cock-and-bull name now. If any traditional Christmas songs are sung -- the words have been changed.

I assume yoga can be taught without religious tones -- but not sure if that's the way it is in this situation. The can of worms has been opened ... yoga has religious roots.

Horseshit. Read the article before you comment again.

[Rolyo85]

Did you even read any of the stuff I posted?

Where's your open mind?

Open to what exactly?

[T-Rexx]

I am afraid of Yoga.

And Yoda.

And Yogurt.

And Yolanda Be Cool.

[JB3]

I am afraid of Yoga.

And Yoda.

And Yogurt.

And Yolanda Be Cool.

I want to frame this and put it on a wall.

[Just_Believe18]

Benvolio and Jack_Springer, you're the ones that are making very poor and unsubstantiated assumptions. I have many contacts in public schools located in liberal states, and Christmas is widely celebrated.

How about commenting on the actual article about this lawsuit? Are you against children benefiting from a healthy form of exercise?

[chance1]

Couple thoughts

Slow news day ?

Yoga is not my thang but can't imagine the harm or a lawsuit

What's the story about two lawyers at the bottom of the ocean ?

Ps - Encinitas which is just north of San Diego is an amazing town - has a Cape Cod feel - would def live there

[rareboy]

I'm more than certain that in the U.S. you'd have to bend over backwards to find a tiny number of places with an instructor even versed in the spiritual meaning of any of it. It's treated entirely as a new agey alternative exercise/fitness fad.

One of the classic yoga sex positions.

[rareboy]

You should come to E-town then. . .


http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/01...ga-instructor/

I'm on my way!

Oh.

and Jack?

For Fuck's Sake.

[Jack Springer]

Benvolio and Jack_Springer, you're the ones that are making very poor and unsubstantiated assumptions. I have many contacts in public schools located in liberal states, and Christmas is widely celebrated.

How about commenting on the actual article about this lawsuit? Are you against children benefiting from a healthy form of exercise?

Well, the conservative states have removed Christmas from the schools --- maybe you don't know what Christmas means -- that could be the problem.

[Jack Springer]

It's absolute rubbish. But thanks for playing. Yoga isn't a religious practice itself. It can have a secular purpose.

Key word is can.

I'll repeat -- separation between church and state doesn't only mean Christian churches.

[rareboy]

How the Fuck is Yoga Like Fucking Christmas??????

[Jack Springer]

Do the crazy extremes of separation of church and state make you a little upset rareboy?

[rareboy]

No. Your inability to understand yoga as a form of exercise totally separate from religious origins amazes me though.

How is exploiting the birth of Jesus as the raison d'etre for the entire fucking Christian Church the same as a double dog down?

You're just making yourself look ridiculous.

Once again.

[rareboy]

Yoga for beginners:



Christianity for beginners.

[chrisrobin]

A school district in Encinitas, California has been teaching Yoga in gym class since last Fall, offering it as an elective that students can choose to participate in. Students do not have to participate, and can opt out if they choose. That apparently wasn't enough for two parents that are suing the school district, claiming that Yoga is inherently religious and the inclusion of it is violating their religious freedom.

The linked article is full of, ahem, interesting quotes by the parents and lawyers representing them, like this gem:



The organization representing the parents claims to represent conservative values, including being anti-gay in every way you could possibly imagine, and anti-abortion.

My take? Nutjobs. All of them. Their kids don't have to take yoga if they don't want, and yoga itself has never had elements of religion for the majority of americans that practice it. It is, quite literally, all about stretching, breath, and relaxation.

If I were the judge I'd order the parents to do an hour of yoga a day, five days a week for the next year as punishment for wasting the court's time and the school district's money.

http://todaynews.today.com/_news/201...-for-kids?lite

If it were up to me, I would let the system of justice take its course which would make the two nut jobs an object of ridicule on a larger scale. I think the operative word in this case is elective. Case closed. There's got to be a legal term for STFU.

This is probably the same mentality that objected to Disney's Alladin for its flagrant use of phallic symbols... the same mentality that objects to water fluoridation... the same mentality that objected to the Harry Potter books for promoting witchcraft, ad nauseam.

For what its worth:

1st Amendment Text
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

If I were running the school, I would counter sue the plaintiffs for attempting to interfere with
academic freedom.

[xbuzzerx]

Well, the conservative states have removed Christmas from the schools --- maybe you don't know what Christmas means -- that could be the problem.

Even presupposing that the "conservative states" have removed Christmas from schools how is that to blame on liberals or their interpretation of the separation of church and state.... and what would it have to do with this article, especially if you yourself are supporting banning yoga when you're unhappy about this so-called banning of Christmas (which I've never seen.)

[Rolyo85]

Well, the conservative states have removed Christmas from the schools --- maybe you don't know what Christmas means -- that could be the problem.

Seriously, Springer? Your claim gets refuted and that's your comeback? That he doesn't know what "Christmas means"? So petty. Also, do you have any way to substantiate the claim that all Republican states (or any, for that matter) have removed Christmas from the schools? What I've seen in Indiana and Kentucky - arguably among the hardcore Republican states - is that some schools simply make the holiday inclusive. They haven't banned Christmas, they've just added Hanuka and the likes to the celebration.

[Rolyo85]

Key word is can.

I'll repeat -- separation between church and state doesn't only mean Christian churches.

Let me just call you on your illogical bullshit here a little bit.

Yoga is taught by non-religious people and organizations, as a fitness exercise. It is not sponsored by any religious institution, nor does it come with any spiritual teachings involved. The separation of church and state CAN'T apply to Yoga any more than it can apply to Karate. There is NO CHURCH INVOLVED to be separated from state.


Not to mention that only a rabid Christianist could possibly see any religious element in Yoga to begin with...

[xbuzzerx]

Let me just call you on your illogical bullshit here a little bit.

Yoga is taught by non-religious people and organizations, as a fitness exercise. It is not sponsored by any religious institution, nor does it come with any spiritual teachings involved. The separation of church and state CAN'T apply to Yoga any more than it can apply to Karate. There is NO CHURCH INVOLVED to be separated from state.


Not to mention that only a rabid Christianist could possibly see any religious element in Yoga to begin with...

Calligraphy now an unconstitutional expression of religion since it used to be done almost exclusively in monasteries.

[Rolyo85]

Yoga in and of itself isn't worth a discussion on a current events and politics forum. It DOES however become worthy of that discussion when crazy zealot Christianist terrorists start trying to bash it for being a "religious expression" which it isn't. The debate of whether purely physical exercises like Yoga and martial arts could be attacked for being "religion" is most definitely worthy of discussion on a current events and politics forum.

Was that respectful enough? I really did try to forget you asked the question, which is more courtesy than you or the rest of the Underbridge have ever given ME

[bankside]

Well, freedom to practice religion is not the same as freedom to force your children to practice religion. And while I agree children should not be forced to participate in some other adult's religion, I think that kids should enjoy the same freedom of conscience that their parents enjoy.

Anyhow, this is just to point out the hypocrisy of parents who are glad to see their children force-fed a religion as long as it is their own.

But as far as the law is concerned, is yoga really a form of religion being forced on kids? No. And I don't think the government should allow itself to be persuaded otherwise by claims made by religious hystericals. I don't think children should even be allowed to opt out if physical education is part of the curriculum. (which it should be.)

[mightbe]

Jack, by your reasoning, eating on December 25 is inherently religious.

It's not. Chances are you'll eat that day no matter what you believe in. Yoga is exercise. Like eating, exercise is necessity that no matter how unbearable it may be for some (e.g. anorexia), has to be done.

[Jack Springer]

Sooo many panties in a twist.

The origins of yoga are religious therefore cannot be taught in public schools. Separation of church and state -- live with it.

Purpose

Generally put, yoga is a disciplined method utilized for attaining a goal.[10] The ultimate goal of Yoga is moksha though the exact definition of what form this takes depends on the philosophical or theological system with which it is conjugated. Bhakti schools of Vaishnavism combine yoga with devotion to enjoy an eternal presence of Vishnu.[13] In Shaiva theology, yoga is used to unite kundalini with Shiva.[14] Mahabharata defines the purpose of yoga as the experience of Brahman or Ātman pervading all things.[15] In the specific sense of Patanjali's Yoga Sutras, the purpose of yoga is defined as citta-vṛtti-nirodhaḥ (the cessation of the peturbations of consciousness).[10] In contemporary times, the physical postures of yoga are used to alleviate health problems, reduce stress and make the spine supple. Yoga is also used as a complete exercise program and physical therapy routine.[16]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga

[Rolyo85]

Sooo many panties in a twist.

The origins of yoga are religious therefore cannot be taught in public schools. Separation of church and state -- live with it.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga

I admit idiocy always puts my panties in a twist, yes.

So are we allowed to teach martial arts in school? Should dojos be tax-exempt?

[maxpowr9]

It depends on the type of yoga which shows Jack's ignorance. If there is ever meditation involved, there a spiritual/religious element to it. The actual practice of yoga is good for balance and litheness.

[Jack Springer]

It depends on the type of yoga which shows Jack's ignorance. If there is ever meditation involved, there a spiritual/religious element to it. The actual practice of yoga is good for balance and litheness.

The basics in yoga are from a religion. You can't change the facts.

Go call someone else ignorant -- I looked at the whole picture -- most of the other posters here just got upset without doing any research.

[xbuzzerx]

The basics in yoga are from a religion. You can't change the facts.

So are martial arts, and a hundred other things-- in original origin, perhaps centuries ago. What's your point?