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  1. #1
    ecce homo rareboy's Avatar
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    Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...220_story.html

    Proposition 8 opponents believe the president signaled his intention to file a brief when he declared in last month’s inaugural address that gays and lesbians must be “treated like anyone else under the law.” An administration official said Obama was not foreshadowing any legal action, though the administration was considering filing a brief.
    I'm sure there will be more on this over the next 24 hours, but this would definitely be a game changer in the US. I think that they must know that if they do it now, it would have almost no impact on the mid-terms and could regain them support among the younger and swing voters.

    It certainly would be a principled stand for a President to take.

    Since both the legislature and the judicial branches of federal government are involved in an issue that many will argue is States' Rights, I see no reason for the Executive Branch not to weigh in as well.

    Let the howling from the right wing commence.

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    JUB Addict chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...220_story.html


    I'm sure there will be more on this over the next 24 hours, but this would definitely be a game changer in the US. I think that they must know that if they do it now, it would have almost no impact on the mid-terms and could regain them support among the younger and swing voters.

    It certainly would be a principled stand for a President to take.

    Since both the legislature and the judicial branches of federal government are involved in an issue that many will argue is States' Rights, I see no reason for the Executive Branch not to weigh in as well.

    Let the howling from the right wing commence.
    States Rights = old code for segregation.

    Since Pres. Obama doesn't have to worry about getting re-elected, he is free to do more things. The Fundies will be pissed no matter what he does.

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

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    ecce homo rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    Ironic then when you hear some opponents of homo marriage talk about marriage itself as being a States' Rights issue.

  4. #4
    JockBoy87
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    I think the justices have made up their minds already. Obama has already come out for same sex marriage, so I think an administration brief will be welcome but not of much import.

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    ecce homo rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    I guess though, a brief could put him on the right side of history, no matter what the courts decide.

  6. #6
    JUB Addict Ninja108's Avatar
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by JockBoy87 View Post
    I think the justices have made up their minds already. Obama has already come out for same sex marriage, so I think an administration brief will be welcome but not of much import.
    It's either going to be a 5-4 vote or a 6-3 vote. John Roberts is a Bush pick but he is also concerned about his legacy and doesn't want to be on the wrong side of history.
    Scalia,Alito and Thomas are automatic no votes.

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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...220_story.html


    I'm sure there will be more on this over the next 24 hours, but this would definitely be a game changer in the US. I think that they must know that if they do it now, it would have almost no impact on the mid-terms and could regain them support among the younger and swing voters.

    It certainly would be a principled stand for a President to take.

    Since both the legislature and the judicial branches of federal government are involved in an issue that many will argue is States' Rights, I see no reason for the Executive Branch not to weigh in as well.

    Let the howling from the right wing commence.
    Of course they'll be mad. They spent millions upon millions of dollars in illegal funds transferred in from out of state, national religious PACS and what not to unethically interfere in our election fair and square. (Besides the illegal parts.)

    Oh and also, I'm sure you guys all heard/knew this, but the ads that were paid for by the Knights of Columbus and the Mormons for prop 8 in CA were the most misleading political ads I have ever heard in my life, on any topic. You literally had absolutely no idea what the prop was about, or whether you were supposed to vote yes or no on it to get the result you wanted, the way the ads presented it. Many of the ads flat out had something like, a teacher role playing she was being ordered to teach kids how to participate in a gay marraige or something and it's like... wait, what is this law about? Public education?

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    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    I just opened JoeMyGod this morning, and was suddenly overwhelmed by everything that's been happening lately. A bipartisan pro-marriage national coalition. Illinois moving rapidly to equality. Hate groups defunded left and right. Europe's big forces finally getting there. Indiana's "gay people have no purpose and I want a Christian no-gays-allowed prom" teacher has been suspended, and even fucking Tim Tebow is not doing his dumb speech...

    After surviving my coming out without permanent damage, I am now so happy to be gay TODAY rather than in ten years time.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  9. #9
    JockBoy87
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    It's either going to be a 5-4 vote or a 6-3 vote. John Roberts is a Bush pick but he is also concerned about his legacy and doesn't want to be on the wrong side of history.
    Scalia,Alito and Thomas are automatic no votes.
    Something tells me Roberts is going to vote to overturn DOMA. He has been showing an independent streak.

  10. #10
    JUB Addict chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    I just opened JoeMyGod this morning, and was suddenly overwhelmed by everything that's been happening lately. A bipartisan pro-marriage national coalition. Illinois moving rapidly to equality. Hate groups defunded left and right. Europe's big forces finally getting there. Indiana's "gay people have no purpose and I want a Christian no-gays-allowed prom" teacher has been suspended, and even fucking Tim Tebow is not doing his dumb speech...

    After surviving my coming out without permanent damage, I am now so happy to be gay TODAY rather than in ten years time.
    One step at a time... small but sure steps. The tide of public opinion is with us. Think of it this way: Seneca Falls heralded the beginning of women's suffrage in 1845. If we do the arithmetic, it appears to have taken 75 years (1920)! It's only been 44 years since Stonewall, which is remarkable, considering the strength of the opposition. The prom story happened in Indiana, not known for being progressive. If public opinion can shift in Indiana, it can happen anywhere.

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

  11. #11
    RazorzEdge88
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    And just look at the amount of time between the onset of the racial civil rights movement and the universal legalization of interracial marriage.

  12. #12
    JockBoy87
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    Stonewall was maybe the first major national attention that we got, but there were already activists groups in the 1950s.

    The first pro-gay Supreme Court ruling was in 1956 when they decided that gay magazines were not intrinsically obscene, and the first gay rights rally was in 1962 in Philadelphia.

    So it could be argued that the gay rights movement has been making concerted efforts for 60 years now.

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    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    One step at a time... small but sure steps. The tide of public opinion is with us. Think of it this way: Seneca Falls heralded the beginning of women's suffrage in 1845. If we do the arithmetic, it appears to have taken 75 years (1920)! It's only been 44 years since Stonewall, which is remarkable, considering the strength of the opposition. The prom story happened in Indiana, not known for being progressive. If public opinion can shift in Indiana, it can happen anywhere.
    Yes, but our age is a thousand times faster in every aspect from the 19th and early 20th century, so I'd say we should be closer.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  14. #14
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by RazorzEdge88 View Post
    And just look at the amount of time between the onset of the racial civil rights movement and the universal legalization of interracial marriage.
    People today are almost universally shocked when you tell them just how recently anti-miscegenation laws were on the books.

  15. #15
    JockBoy87
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2013/02/23...ike-down-doma/

    The Solicitor General filed a brief for the administration for DOMA, but not Perry.

    He has until the 28th to file one for Perry.

  16. #16
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    States makes serious mistakes that violate the rights of people, and the federal government is well in its right to intervene. States right is just a desperate slogan for some republicans who don't want gay marriage. It's kinda funny how those same republicans are in favor of Defense of Marriage Act... doesn't make any sense. It's a major contradiction.

  17. #17
    JockBoy87
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    ^^^

    That's the issue with Obama; he is buying the 'states' rights' argument, and that's why he is waffling so much on ordering a brief from the Solicitor General for the Prop 8 case.

    If the administration files a brief in Perry, then Obama must come out in support of mandatory marriage equality nationwide, which he has yet to do. Remember, his position right now on same sex marriage is more should than must.

  18. #18
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    It's outrageous, I tell you. Obama is dictating to the Supreme Court how they should make decisions! This is government intrusion on the voice of the American people! Obama is a dictator who should be more concerned about jobs and lower gas prices! Typical liberals. I'm sure those activist judges will side with him. At least we can depend on Scalia and Thomas, true and faithful Originalists to the Constitution.
    Last edited by Just_Believe18; February 22nd, 2013 at 09:17 PM.
    #439th oldest member on JUB.

  19. #19

    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by JockBoy87 View Post
    ^^^

    That's the issue with Obama; he is buying the 'states' rights' argument, and that's why he is waffling so much on ordering a brief from the Solicitor General for the Prop 8 case.

    If the administration files a brief in Perry, then Obama must come out in support of mandatory marriage equality nationwide, which he has yet to do. Remember, his position right now on same sex marriage is more should than must.
    He could do a more soft brief, supporting the 9th Circuit ruling and being less broad then the one filed by Olsen and Boise.

  20. #20
    JockBoy87
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    It looks like Obama will do it...

    http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/0...sition-8-case/

    The text of the brief has not been released yet. What it says may have a significant political impact.

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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Just_Believe18 View Post
    It's outrageous, I tell you. Obama is dictating to the Supreme Court how they should make decisions! This is government intrusion on the voice of the American people! Obama is a dictator who should be more concerned about jobs and lower gas prices! Typical liberals. I'm sure those activist judges will side with him. At least we can depend on Scalia and Thomas, true and faithful Originalists to the Constitution.
    lolol. And I bet that took zero prep time to give a near perfect rendition of their reaction.

  22. #22
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by JockBoy87 View Post
    It looks like Obama will do it...

    http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/0...sition-8-case/

    The text of the brief has not been released yet. What it says may have a significant political impact.
    I'm crossing my fingers, but I am nonetheless pleased as this President has done more than any other for equality.

  23. #23
    JockBoy87
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    I'm crossing my fingers, but I am nonetheless pleased as this President has done more than any other for equality.
    Well it may mean Obama drops his states' rights defense. We will have to wait to see the brief. It could be limited.

  24. #24
    JockBoy87
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    Here is the text: http://www.scribd.com/doc/127822315/...-United-States

    I am sure expert analysis will follow, but here is my take:

    The most important discussion takes place on pages 26-27, with the subsection titled "Democratic self governance." The administration is arguing in that section that there are many reasons why gay people are subject to heightened scrutiny, but voter attacks are not one of them. Nevertheless, voter initiatives cannot infringe on rights in the interest of democratic self governance, when a suspect class is being deprive of due process and equal protection. Furthermore, the administration compares the situation of the respondents to that of Mildred Loving.

    That is significant because the administration's argument can be used to invalidate all voter initiatives banning gay marriage, not that I am saying the court will definitely buy it, or the suspect classification of homosexuality.

    The other more technical arguments say that California unjustly bars same sex couples from the designation of marriage, which could be used by the court to mandate same sex marriage in the 10 states that have domestic partnerships or civil unions.

  25. #25
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    Especially given the emergence of voter-lead equality measures, I think it's clear the Court cannot find equal marriage to be unconstitutional. Once it's determined to be legal in one place, then what debt of recognition is owed by other states?

    I think the opponents are being painted into a smaller and smaller corner.

    But I don't see that the Court would feel constrained to recognise equal marriage as a constitutional right that must be granted by way of obligation.

    Would a brief by Obama at this point just sort of rile the Court up and push them to rebut it? They might otherwise just allow homophobic marriage to crumble, but if pushed….

    Edit: oh! There's the text! Thank you; I'm curious to read it…

    Quote Originally Posted by JockBoy87 View Post
    Last edited by bankside; February 28th, 2013 at 05:31 PM.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  26. #26
    JockBoy87
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post

    Would a brief by Obama at this point just sort of rile the Court up and push them to rebut it? They might otherwise just allow homophobic marriage to crumble, but if pushed….
    I think the brief is rather persuasive, and it carves out justifications for the court to take the issue as far as it wants to. The court will be able to throw out just Prop 8, all initiatives, all voter bans, or all bans period. It is a sit and wait game as the lines are drawn and the ship has sailed.

  27. #27
    JockBoy87
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    Most analyses seem to say Obama is advocating for marriage equality in civil union states only.

    I disagree. Even SCOTUSblog, which advocated that position, has said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyle Dennison
    The administration brief did not take an explicit position on how its standard might apply to states that do not now provide civil unions or other broad marriage-like rights as the eight non-marriage states do. But the logic of its constitutional test might, in fact, jeopardize same-sex marriage bans as a general proposition.

  28. #28
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    K. Is there anything new here or are they just weighing in? Maybe the arguments seem so back-of-the-hand to me, it's hard to see anything new due to familiarity.

    I guess I'm glad they're weighing in; they can't really present a weak argument can they? There isn't really a weak argument to present. All very familiar too, once I "translate" from american to canadian - we even had the same argument over jurisdiction, except that the "capacity to marry" is federal in Canada. But how to regulate that, whoever ends up doing it, is the real question.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  29. #29
    JockBoy87
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    K. Is there anything new here or are they just weighing in? Maybe the arguments seem so back-of-the-hand to me, it's hard to see anything new due to familiarity.

    I guess I'm glad they're weighing in; they can't really present a weak argument can they? There isn't really a weak argument to present. All very familiar too, once I "translate" from american to canadian - we even had the same argument over jurisdiction, except that the "capacity to marry" is federal in Canada. But how to regulate that, whoever ends up doing it, is the real question.
    Not really. The spirit of these arguments has been known for a long time. Politically, it moves Obama clearly out of the realm of absolute states' rights, and clearly into the realm mandatory marriage in partnership states. The subtle arguments made really ask for nationwide same sex marriage in my opinion.

  30. #30
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    Does it move Obama that way?

    In our federal system, there is also a debate about the distribution of powers between the federal and provincial governments, but the debate is about which government has the power to do constitutional things. (Contrast with the power to do anything they want..)

    So is it really an expansion of the federal level if states are not allowed, in the exercise of their proper powers, to engage in unconstitutional discrimination across the board?
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  31. #31
    JockBoy87
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Does it move Obama that way?

    In our federal system, there is also a debate about the distribution of powers between the federal and provincial governments, but the debate is about which government has the power to do constitutional things. (Contrast with the power to do anything they want..)

    So is it really an expansion of the federal level if states are not allowed, in the exercise of their proper powers, to engage in unconstitutional discrimination across the board?
    Good question.

    Family law has always been the domain of states, and by the 10th Amendment and common law, no federal statute can manipulate state family statutes that are constitutional. That's the catch; no state can pass an unconstitutional statute, and the Supreme Court has jurisdiction over those matters.

    The power of the Supreme Court to review those cases is established in Article III, Section 2, "The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution ... the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact." Of course it wasn't until Chief Justice Marshall in 1803 decided that when matters of law and the US Constitution conflict, that the US Constitution is supreme, and that laws cannot preempt the US Constitution. In addition, Congress or the states cannot modify the constitution by statute without a constitutional amendment.

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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  33. #33
    JockBoy87
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    That is excellent news!

    The administration is asking to participate in oral arguments. Most unexpected and welcome gesture

  34. #34
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by JockBoy87 View Post
    Good question.

    Family law has always been the domain of states, and by the 10th Amendment and common law, no federal statute can manipulate state family statutes that are constitutional. That's the catch; no state can pass an unconstitutional statute, and the Supreme Court has jurisdiction over those matters.

    The power of the Supreme Court to review those cases is established in Article III, Section 2, "The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution ... the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact." Of course it wasn't until Chief Justice Marshall in 1803 decided that when matters of law and the US Constitution conflict, that the US Constitution is supreme, and that laws cannot preempt the US Constitution. In addition, Congress or the states cannot modify the constitution by statute without a constitutional amendment.
    Madison vs. Marbury, yes? We studied the machinations and the case in school; it was a good one.

    I don't know if Marshal so much decided it as was brave enough to say it and clever enough to do it in a way that made it difficult to ignore or overturn without damaging the same interested parties.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  35. #35
    JockBoy87
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Madison vs. Marbury, yes? We studied the machinations and the case in school; it was a good one.

    I don't know if Marshal so much decided it as was brave enough to say it and clever enough to do it in a way that made it difficult to ignore or overturn without damaging the same interested parties.
    I don't think there was any machination at all. Conflict between pieces legislation happens all the time, in all common law countries. Marshall seems to have just rationally decided that constitutional law is supreme in all instances over statute, because the constitution is unalterable law except for amendments, and the language in bold below.

    Quote Originally Posted by U.S. Const. Art. VI, Cl. 2, "Supremacy Clause"

    This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof . . . shall be the supreme law of the land
    The problem was that the convention surrendered legislative sovereignty to an inviolable constitution, quite unlike Parliament. I think the authors of the US Constitution inadvertently created such a system without giving a second thought to the fact that they had just abolished Parliamentary Supremacy, or perhaps they thought rational and well educated men versed in the law would never willfully or inadvertently pass legislation in conflict with the constitution.

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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...220_story.html

    It certainly would be a principled stand for a President to take.
    No the time for a "principled stand" would have been in 2008 when he carried the state of California by over 3 million votes and he refused to take a stand on Prop 8. Getting 1 out 10 of his supporters in CA to vote No on 8 and we wouldn't be in court now.

    A principled stand would have been coming out before the 2012 election to announce what his Justice Dept was going to do.

    Changing your position when it is meaningless is pretty much the definition of "not principled".

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    Ironic then when you hear some opponents of homo marriage talk about marriage itself as being a States' Rights issue.
    Ironic that in 2008, when the battle over Prop 8 was RAGING in CA, Obama told Rick Warren, "Because historically -- because historically, we have not defined marriage in our constitution. It's been a matter of state law. That has been our tradition. I mean, let's break it down. The reason that people think there needs to be a constitutional amendment, some people believe, is because of the concern that -- about same-sex marriage. I am not somebody who promotes same-sex marriage,

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    It's either going to be a 5-4 vote or a 6-3 vote. John Roberts is a Bush pick but he is also concerned about his legacy and doesn't want to be on the wrong side of history.
    Scalia,Alito and Thomas are automatic no votes.
    Kagan, Ginsburg, Sotomayor and Breyer, all Democrat appointees are automatic yes votes so what is your point?

    It seems only Kennedy and Roberts, both Republican appointees, are open minded enough to not be seen as automatic votes one way or the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    I'm crossing my fingers, but I am nonetheless pleased as this President has done more than any other for equality.
    Dude, seriously? List all the great things Obama has done for the gay community, especially when he had the House and a veto-proof Senate. Did he repeal DOMA? Pass ENDA? End DADT?

    DADT came to an end because of a lawsuit filed by the Log Cabin Republicans in LCR v. US in 2004, 5 years before Obama was sworn in. That it didn't come to trial until 2010 was happy circumstance for Obama so he could jump on that train just as it was pulling into the station.
    Last edited by PrivateTimm; March 1st, 2013 at 04:47 PM.

  37. #37
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by PrivateTimm View Post
    Dude, seriously? List all the great things Obama has done for the gay community, especially when he had the House and a veto-proof Senate. Did he repeal DOMA? Pass ENDA? End DADT?
    Obama has been at the forefront for the gay community. And he did end DADT. That was signed into law.

    DADT came to an end because of a lawsuit filed by the Log Cabin Republicans in LCR v. US in 2004, 5 years before Obama was sworn in. That it didn't come to trial until 2010 was happy circumstance for Obama so he could jump on that train just as it was pulling into the station.
    OH here we go again with this falsehood. LCR had little to do with it being overturned. It was overturned because of executive and congressional action. The douchebags in LCR were more interested in endorsing whatever republican came up against Obama. Don't even try to give the credit to that fake ass group that puts political interests over the interests of their own rights.

    President Obama again has done far more than ANY republican. Deal with the reality. That's how it is! Not some lawsuit that had little to do with the ending of DADT. LCR hasn't done diddly shit for the gay community, asides from stabbing us in the back REPEATEDLY.
    Last edited by GiancarloC; March 1st, 2013 at 05:04 PM.

  38. #38
    JockBoy87
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    @ PT: While I think you make some fair points, your cynical undertone undermines any effort you are making to present a persuasive argument.

  39. #39
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    I love how somehow even a non-entity such as LCR somehow manages to insert itself into rumors of having done something...
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  40. #40
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    I love how somehow even a non-entity such as LCR somehow manages to insert itself into rumors of having done something...
    It's just the right wing log cabin type trying to say "look we did everything" blah blah blah... LCR had next to nothing to do with DADT being overturned. And I suppose Bush somehow did more than Obama too... in some parallel universe lol.

    LCR did endorse Romney/Ryan... the latter of which was against every piece of LGBT legislation to hit his desk. As I said right wing apologist backstabbers.
    Last edited by GiancarloC; March 1st, 2013 at 05:09 PM.

  41. #41
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    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    Obama has been at the forefront for the gay community. And he did end DADT. That was signed into law.

    OH here we go again with this falsehood. LCR had little to do with it being overturned. It was overturned because of executive and congressional action. The douchebags in LCR were more interested in endorsing whatever republican came up against Obama. Don't even try to give the credit to that fake ass group that puts political interests over the interests of their own rights.
    Obama has been at the "forefront"? Really? Did the "forefront" of the movement start in 2012? Because that is when Obama changed his position on gay marriage. You didn't even address why ENDA wasn't passed by him, or DOMA repealed or DADT addressed until the case was working its way through the courts.

    As to who is telling falsehoods, perhaps you should read this timeline from that noted radical right group, The Lambda Legal Defense & Education Fund who filed an amicus brief in the case.

    DADT was ended by Judge Phillips ruling on this case on Sept. 9, 2010. The DADT legislation was signed by Obama on Dec. 22, 2010.

    Do try to get some facts right.

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    It's just the right wing log cabin type trying to say "look we did everything" blah blah blah... LCR had next to nothing to do with DADT being overturned. And I suppose Bush somehow did more than Obama too... in some parallel universe lol.
    Here is the case from the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, Log Cabin Republicans, a non-profit corporation v. United States of America and Robert M. Gates, Secretary of Defense, in his official capacity. People can read the case for themselves and the timeline from LLDEF above.

    Why do you all keep pretending this case didn't exist? United States ADA Paul Freeborne works for the Obama Administration. They didn't have to respond in the case. Obama's Justice Department made a conscious decision to argue the case.

  42. #42
    GiancarloC
    Guest

    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    Quote Originally Posted by PrivateTimm View Post
    Obama has been at the "forefront"? Really? Did the "forefront" of the movement start in 2012? Because that is when Obama changed his position on gay marriage. You didn't even address why ENDA wasn't passed by him, or DOMA repealed or DADT addressed until the case was working its way through the courts.
    Oh please. It was all passed by him and he changed his attitude on gay marriage before ANY republican. Even the LCR isn't in favor of gay marriage. They love supporting guys who are completely against gay marriage and the gay community. Stop trying to stick to the same old conjectures. DADT being repealed had little to nothing to do with the LCR... there were SEVERAL cases pending. But that isn't the key point here... DADT was repealed by the Executive and Congressional.

    DADT was ended by Judge Phillips ruling on this case on Sept. 9, 2010. The DADT legislation was signed by Obama on Dec. 22, 2010.
    DADT was ended up by legislation. Rulings can be appealed. Lets get the facts right please. If the legislation didn't pass, it would have probably been appealed. This is how the justice system works.

    Here is the case from the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, Log Cabin Republicans, a non-profit corporation v. United States of America and Robert M. Gates, Secretary of Defense, in his official capacity. People can read the case for themselves and the timeline from LLDEF above.
    Again there were numerous cases against DADT. The LCR wasn't the one spearheading this change. Lets stop being right wing apologists plase.

    Why do you all keep pretending this case didn't exist? United States ADA Paul Freeborne works for the Obama Administration. They didn't have to respond in the case. Obama's Justice Department made a conscious decision to argue the case.
    Because LCR doesn't do jack shit for the gay community asides from stabbing us in the back, and they had next to nothing to do with DADT being overturned. This was a legislative and executive action that ended it.

    Now tell me... what republican has done as much as Obama for the gay community? Tell me which. And please don't point to those partisan hacks in the LCR who endorsed one of the most anti-gay republican candidacies in history.

  43. #43
    GiancarloC
    Guest

    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    I'll ask again... more clearly... what the FUCK has the REPUBLICAN PARTY done for the gay community?

    Oh and please ANSWER my question this time instead of providing the usual deflections.

  44. #44
    JockBoy87
    Guest

    Re: Obama administration considers urging Supreme Court to overturn California gay marriage ban

    Obama's administration has accomplished a lot, not just by signing four LGBT rights acts into law, but dozens of regulatory changes.

    Some of the major ones:

    Lifted the HIV ban.
    Medicare accepting hospitals must now allow partner visitation.
    Expanded FMLA to allow leave to care for partner's children.
    Lowered the priority for deportation of same sex partners.
    Ordered GENDA protections for all federal employment.
    Ordered domestic partnership benefits for federal employees.
    Counted gay couples in the census.
    Appointed 20 LGBT officials requiring Senate confirmation.

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