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  1. #51
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    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    Quote Originally Posted by blueranger View Post
    The reason why he's doing it can be objectionable.
    This is the reason for your thread. It isn't about the reaction of finding a partner who is religious. Your premise is a ruse, a pretext to crusade against Catholicism, and apparently without much knowledge about the practice beyond headlines you've read. Considering that he is apparently a Catholic who is about to have gay sex, it is pretty reasonable to guess that he is indeed among the faithful who believe the Church is errant in the teachings about homosexuality, just as it previously was about divorce.

    Arguably, this Catholic is potentially a better ally than those who oppose the dogma from the outside. There are over 1.2 billion Catholics on the planet. They're not going anywhere soon, so change is much more likely to come from within their ranks than without.

    Whereas it is true that it is fine to bait on JUB if one uses religion as opposed to politics or ethnicity, the traditional mode is direct attack, not the indirect route of creating some sham question that is merely a front for beginning the argument.

  2. #52
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    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    Quote Originally Posted by blueranger View Post
    As far as I recall, the photos of frontal nudity are not allowed.

    So let me rephrase the OP question: How would you react if he told you he was praying to be forgiven for the sin of having gay sex with you?
    It depends on his behavior and facial expression whether he is a psycho or not a psycho.
    So it all depends and only you can tell when meet face to face.


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  3. #53

    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard-up1 View Post
    This is the reason for your thread. It isn't about the reaction of finding a partner who is religious. Your premise is a ruse, a pretext to crusade against Catholicism, and apparently without much knowledge about the practice beyond headlines you've read. Considering that he is apparently a Catholic who is about to have gay sex, it is pretty reasonable to guess that he is indeed among the faithful who believe the Church is errant in the teachings about homosexuality, just as it previously was about divorce.

    Arguably, this Catholic is potentially a better ally than those who oppose the dogma from the outside. There are over 1.2 billion Catholics on the planet. They're not going anywhere soon, so change is much more likely to come from within their ranks than without.

    Whereas it is true that it is fine to bait on JUB if one uses religion as opposed to politics or ethnicity, the traditional mode is direct attack, not the indirect route of creating some sham question that is merely a front for beginning the argument.
    I dont need a pretext for anything, and the thread is about reaction to the decribed event. If you find it a sham, that's only your projection. And I dont really care what is "the traditional attack" or whatever you're implying. So I rephrased question, especially for all of those overprojecting.

    Quote Originally Posted by blueranger View Post

    So let me rephrase the OP question: How would you react if he told you he was praying to be forgiven for the sin of having gay sex with you?
    Last edited by blueranger; February 18th, 2013 at 06:51 AM.

  4. #54
    Hard-up1
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    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    When rephrased, the reactions are different for many posters, and likely too trite to merit response. There are already known religious biases on JUB, and your thread doesn't shed any new light on them. Countless threads, many of which have been during your membership, have shown this, as well as all the known responses: 1) just sex 2) don't care 3) wouldn't touch him, etc.

    I wouldn't encourage a man to violate his principles/beliefs nor involve myself in the act under your new premise.

    A similar parallel would be the issue of adultery. Some JUB members don't find the taboo relevant and will readily cross the ethical line. But, many more will not knowingly pair with married men, not necessarily out of respect for the institution of marriage, but more than the married man is in a formal commitment that is real, not imaginary, and carries with it complications and ethics that he chose to adopt.
    Last edited by Hard-up1; February 18th, 2013 at 06:57 AM.

  5. #55
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    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    No Blueranger....we weren't overprojecting. You were. You had some preconceived and not very well considered idea about how we should react.

    Unlike the other hypothetical threads, you had a very specific bias about the image in the thread....but you didn't even apparently know that only Catholics and Highest Anglicans would use prayer beads and a crucifix.

    You were also wholly mistaken in how catholic homos, versus fundamentalist homos can reconcile their faith and homosexuality. You used inaccurate terminology to describe how the Catholic Church views homosexuality and do not appreciate the concept of absolution.

    You don't get the opportunity to re-phrase the question because along the line you've been caught out. At that point, you should withdraw.

    But I'll answer your re-phrased question anyway.

    If this is what it took to get him to open his hole without guilt, I'd tell him to pray as much as he thinks he needs to.

  6. #56

    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard-up1 View Post
    Considering that he is apparently a Catholic who is about to have gay sex, it is pretty reasonable to guess that he is indeed among the faithful who believe the Church is errant in the teachings about homosexuality, just as it previously was about divorce.
    And it is at least as much reasonable to think that is among those who think that gay sex is a sin.

    Arguably, this Catholic is potentially a better ally than those who oppose the dogma from the outside. There are over 1.2 billion Catholics on the planet. They're not going anywhere soon, so change is much more likely to come from within their ranks than without.
    This topic wasnt originaly about allies and ways to fight homophobia among religious people. But certainly it is better when religious person is not a homophobe.

  7. #57

    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    No Blueranger....we weren't overprojecting. You were. You had some preconceived and not very well considered idea about how we should react.

    Unlike the other hypothetical threads, you had a very specific bias about the image in the thread....
    When I said maybe in the OP, it could mean you find out in some way that was the reason of praying. I didn't say that the pic was the only info available. And anyone can assume things, but claiming something is the other thing.

    You don't get the opportunity to re-phrase the question because along the line you've been caught out. At that point, you should withdraw.
    I should withdraw what exactly? I was saying that the scenario I described is possible and why it is. And I didn't ask you to give me the opportunity, or to tell me when do I get it to explain something.
    Last edited by blueranger; February 18th, 2013 at 07:10 AM.

  8. #58
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    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    When I was 21 and first got my job working in a gay club the previous owner was in there....drunk (and kinda scary at the time)...and he told me the reason that there would always be customers was because of the Catholic Church down the street....he said it kept him in business for years.

    I had no clue what he was talking about at the time but then again I had no clue what alot of people were talking about so I tucked it away as a curiosity. Didn't take too long to figure it out.

    Shame is a powerful aphrodisiac for alot of folks...foreplay for others...and the main event for still others. Shame and guilt are favorite tools of TCC

    Oh yeah....the picture. I would pass...not my type.

  9. #59

    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    And one more thing: I never claimed to know much about catholic rituals - the only premise I made is that he was a christian based on the fact that he is praying and using prayer beads and a crucifix, and the possibility that he might be homophobic and considering gay sex a sin.

    Btw I come from a country from Europe where over 90% of general population are declared Orthodox Christians. And in Orthodox Christianity the Church = word of God, and the follower doesn't get the chance to "think with his own head", or he is not considered to be a follower of that religion anymore. And over 70% of population, especially orthodox christians, are highly homophobic. I am glad that it is not the case with Catholicism, and I am glad to find out during participation in this thread that there are almost half of American Catholics who support gay marriage or civil union, if I'm correct. It was rather supprising to me in a very positive way, when I compare it to the situation in Europe and in my country.
    Last edited by blueranger; February 18th, 2013 at 07:29 AM.

  10. #60
    Hard-up1
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    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    Quote Originally Posted by blueranger View Post
    This topic wasnt originaly about allies and ways to fight homophobia among religious people. But certainly it is better when religious person is not a homophobe.
    But it apparently was. You decided that all Catholics are your enemy, and you set up an imaginary scenario hoping to use it as a bully pulpit.

    Your assumptions made the Catholic a homophobe. That presumed all Catholics accept all dogma. It is not dissimilar to presuming all Frenchmen are gourmands, all blacks a good athletes, and all lesbians drive Subarus. It's as bigoted as the religion you presume to attack.

  11. #61
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    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    Quote Originally Posted by blueranger View Post
    When I said maybe in the OP, it could mean you find out in some way that was the reason of praying. I didn't say that the pic was the only info available. And anyone can assume things, but claiming something is the other thing.



    I should withdraw what exactly? I was saying that the scenario I described is possible and why it is. And I didn't ask you to give me the opportunity, or to tell me when do I get it to explain something.
    You can do whatever you want, but this thread went off the rails and became an epic fail as soon as you started to hold forth on the christian church and sin and made it clear that you did have a personal bias and a really wobbly understanding of Catholicism and how religious homos find their place within their faith.

    When I was suggesting that you withdraw, I meant it tactically, because every thing you wrote after your opening post just made you look more and more like you were baiting or trolling when as you note, that was not your intention.

    You must have realized that the imp[act of the thread was lost when you had to come back to revise the premise and would have been better off not trying to salvage it.

  12. #62
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    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    Quote Originally Posted by M10000 View Post
    Id say "You be Regan and Ill be mother"
    -Or-

    "You be Regan and I'll be Jesus Christ" "Let Jesus fuck you."

    "The power of Christ compels you."

    - The Exorcist

  13. #63

    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    You can do whatever you want, but this thread went off the rails and became an epic fail as soon as you started to hold forth on the christian church and sin and made it clear that you did have a personal bias and a really wobbly understanding of Catholicism and how religious homos find their place within their faith.

    When I was suggesting that you withdraw, I meant it tactically, because every thing you wrote after your opening post just made you look more and more like you were baiting or trolling when as you note, that was not your intention.

    You must have realized that the imp[act of the thread was lost when you had to come back to revise the premise and would have been better off not trying to salvage it.

    On the contrary, you made it clear you have a personal bias that I have a bias. Again, you are telling me what should or shouldn't I have done, and how and what to post. My opening post certainly includes my rephrase. I don't really care about the imaginary "impact" of my thread, at least not as much as you do, obviously.
    Last edited by blueranger; February 18th, 2013 at 07:38 AM.

  14. #64

    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard-up1 View Post
    But it apparently was. You decided that all Catholics are your enemy, and you set up an imaginary scenario hoping to use it as a bully pulpit.

    Your assumptions made the Catholic a homophobe. That presumed all Catholics accept all dogma. It is not dissimilar to presuming all Frenchmen are gourmands, all blacks a good athletes, and all lesbians drive Subarus. It's as bigoted as the religion you presume to attack.
    No, it apparently isnt. Ofcourse that I do not consider what you are implying, it is you who decided to make those understatements about me. I told many, many times that it is a possibility, maybe, not necessarily, and doesn't have to be like that. But that it can be. And what if it is like that.

    And you are making the most ordinary logical fallacy: it isn't the same to say all people of some group are like that and must be like that, or many of them are like that or could be like that.
    Last edited by blueranger; February 18th, 2013 at 07:44 AM.

  15. #65
    Are u haleloo ya ? Telstra's Avatar
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    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    Quote Originally Posted by eastofeden View Post
    When I was 21 and first got my job working in a gay club the previous owner was in there....drunk (and kinda scary at the time)...and he told me the reason that there would always be customers was because of the Catholic Church down the street....he said it kept him in business for years.

    I had no clue what he was talking about at the time but then again I had no clue what alot of people were talking about so I tucked it away as a curiosity. Didn't take too long to figure it out.

    Shame is a powerful aphrodisiac for alot of folks...foreplay for others...and the main event for still others. Shame and guilt are favorite tools of TCC

    Oh yeah....the picture. I would pass...not my type.
    That is an interesting information.


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  16. #66
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    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    Same shit. Different toilet.

  17. #67
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    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    Quote Originally Posted by Telstra View Post
    That is an interesting information.
    I came to the conclusion that it was the gay/bi version of the Madonna/Whore complex that brought them there.

  18. #68
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    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    Quote Originally Posted by blueranger View Post
    On the contrary, you made it clear you have a personal bias that I have a bias. Again, you are telling me what should or shouldn't I have done, and how and what to post. My opening post certainly includes my rephrase. I don't really care about the imaginary "impact" of my thread, at least not as much as you do, obviously.
    There was no assumption made. You were quite explicit about your expectations by the second or third post you made where you kept trying to impress upon us that all major Christian Churches consider gay sex an abomination and grave sin. (Hint: They all don't).

    Your other hypothetical situations were mildly amusing and not designed to be argumentative. This one was not as successful because of your intervention. It would really be better for you to set the stage with a simple premise and then not say anything more. It would lead to a much more imaginative and interesting outcome.

    This one has suffered from too much over direction.

  19. #69

    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    Same shit. Different toilet.
    So when you say some of the catholics are homophobes, and all the catholics are homophobes, it's the same? I don't think so.


    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    There was no assumption made. You were quite explicit about your expectations by the second or third post you made where you kept trying to impress upon us that all major Christian Churches consider gay sex an abomination and grave sin. (Hint: They all don't).

    Your other hypothetical situations were mildly amusing and not designed to be argumentative. This one was not as successful because of your intervention. It would really be better for you to set the stage with a simple premise and then not say anything more. It would lead to a much more imaginative and interesting outcome.

    This one has suffered from too much over direction.
    Depends how many you take for major churches and in which way.

    Denominations that oppose homosexuality include the Roman Catholic Church[2] the Eastern Orthodox churches[3] and some mainline Protestant denominations, such as the Methodist churches,[4][5][6][7] Reformed Church in America[8] the American Baptist Church,[9] as well as Conservative Evangelical organizations and churches, such as the Evangelical Alliance,[10] the Presbyterian Church in America[11] and the Southern Baptist Convention.

    The biggest three are: Roman Catholic church, Eastern orthodox church and Protestants.

    http://www.religionfacts.com/christi...ominations.htm

    So there is certainly a possibility that a christian guy thinks that a homosexuality is a sin. But ofcourse, he doesn't have to.The topic is just asking, among other things, what if he does.
    Last edited by blueranger; February 18th, 2013 at 08:50 AM.

  20. #70
    JUB Addict FanofFiction's Avatar
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    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    Well, I'll tell you what I did in this situation. I had great sex. I got into a serious relationship with him. He treats me far better than I ever thought possible. We got married in a church and have a great friendship with our minister. We continue having great sex nearly everyday. And he wasn't praying for forgiveness, he was thanking God for bringing us together.

  21. #71
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    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    Depends how many you take for major churches.

    There are many (major) churches and religious individuals who do support gay marriage equality. I promise.

    ...some local churches here in Silicon Valley who supported Gay Marriage...

    http://www.everydaycitizen.com/2008/...oposition.html

  22. #72

    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    @rareboy

    Only the Catholic church and Eastern Orthodox church who consider gay sex a sin have more or about the same number of members as all the other churches together.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s_in_the_world

    Quote Originally Posted by eastofeden View Post
    Depends how many you take for major churches.

    There are many (major) churches and religious individuals who do support gay marriage equality. I promise.

    ...some local churches here in Silicon Valley who supported Gay Marriage...

    http://www.everydaycitizen.com/2008/...oposition.html
    That's great! As I've said, I come from an Eastern Orthodox oriented country (90% of general population) and gay marriage in this church would be only a fiction.
    Last edited by blueranger; February 18th, 2013 at 09:10 AM.

  23. #73
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    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    Quote Originally Posted by blueranger View Post

    That's great! As I've said, I come from an Eastern Orthodox oriented country (90% of general population) and gay marriage in this church would be only a fiction.
    Real sociological change happens one person at a time. It is a slow process...but it will happen. In the meantime...when you have an opportunity to do so...be the change.

  24. #74
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    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard-up1 View Post

    Whereas it is true that it is fine to bait on JUB if one uses religion as opposed to politics or ethnicity, the traditional mode is direct attack, not the indirect route of creating some sham question that is merely a front for beginning the argument.
    It is completely and utterly fine on JUB for people to bait or even meander into ad hominem on all 3 topics.

    No, religion is not specially in a persecuted category.

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    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    Same shit. Different toilet.
    Quote Originally Posted by blueranger View Post
    So when you say some of the catholics are homophobes, and all the catholics are homophobes, it's the same? I don't think so.
    No. I'm saying that we have one person (you) who is convinced that everyone else (us) is wrong. (i.e. 'Different toilet'.) In the past few weeks, we have been through this same scenario with several other people who were ALSO convinced that they (them) were right and everyone else (us) were wrong. (i.e. 'Same shit'.)

  26. #76
    Coward92
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    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    What if he wasn't praying to apologize but to thank God he found you?

  27. #77

    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    If I care about him...it depends on whether this is something he's always done, or something new with him. If it's new with him I'm definitely going to ask what's going on, and do my best to talk to him and offer my 2 cents.

    If this situation is a hook-up then I'm gonna ask him what's up. If he tells me he's praying the gay away I'm gonna fuck him, and leave because somebody has to prove to him that you can't just pray the gay away. If he's just praying as some sort of fetish or as an act of thanksgiving I'd still fuck him and leave because that's what you do with hook-ups, but that one would always stick out in my mind. That's one interesting fetish.

    If that's a Republican Congressman, I'm fucking his brains out, and selling the tape to whatever media outlet pays me the most.

  28. #78
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    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    Quote Originally Posted by Coward92 View Post
    What if he wasn't praying to apologize but to thank God he found you?
    Hey, there's a positive view of it. Amen

  29. #79

    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    No. I'm saying that we have one person (you) who is convinced that everyone else (us) is wrong. (i.e. 'Different toilet'.) In the past few weeks, we have been through this same scenario with several other people who were ALSO convinced that they (them) were right and everyone else (us) were wrong. (i.e. 'Same shit'.)
    Who is us? Who is everyone? You see, you're making a generalization.
    Last edited by blueranger; February 18th, 2013 at 03:33 PM.

  30. #80

    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    Quote Originally Posted by eastofeden View Post
    Real sociological change happens one person at a time. It is a slow process...but it will happen. In the meantime...when you have an opportunity to do so...be the change.
    Thank you for support, but it's not that likely, it could take centuries. Eastern Orthodox church follows it's dogma strictly (that's why it's Orthodox) and the follower is not allowed to be opinionated on such matters or he is not considered to be the follower anymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coward92 View Post
    What if he wasn't praying to apologize but to thank God he found you?
    That would be nice, as long as the expectations are not too high
    Last edited by blueranger; February 18th, 2013 at 03:44 PM.

  31. #81
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    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    Quote Originally Posted by blueranger View Post
    @rareboy

    Only the Catholic church and Eastern Orthodox church who consider gay sex a sin have more or about the same number of members as all the other churches together.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s_in_the_world



    That's great! As I've said, I come from an Eastern Orthodox oriented country (90% of general population) and gay marriage in this church would be only a fiction.

    Well I appreciate the context then and will say that in this light, I understand that perhaps your confusion is created by a different perspective than in a north american or western European country.

    We have a much less atavistic and rigid view of the role of the Church in our lives and certainly cannot understand (except through our own travels and experience in these backward Orthodox countries) how rigid and doctrinally restrictive it can be.

    So, please accept an olive branch from me.

  32. #82
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    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    I'd do him and then tell him he's going straight to hell right before leaving

  33. #83

    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    Well I appreciate the context then and will say that in this light, I understand that perhaps your confusion is created by a different perspective than in a north american or western European country.

    We have a much less atavistic and rigid view of the role of the Church in our lives and certainly cannot understand (except through our own travels and experience in these backward Orthodox countries) how rigid and doctrinally restrictive it can be.

    So, please accept an olive branch from me.
    Sure, I will accept. And I appologize to any Christian Catholic who thaught I was making a generalization that every Catholic "prays the gay away" when it isn't the case. I looked up more on the internet and when I found out stuff like

    56 percent of American Catholics believe that homosexual sex is not a sin.

    — When marriage is defined as a civil marriage "like you get at city hall," 71 percent of Catholics support it.

    http://www.opposingviews.com/i/socie...hurch-position

    I was very, very positively surprised.
    Last edited by blueranger; February 19th, 2013 at 12:32 AM.

  34. #84

    Re: A somehow religiuos guy - How would you react #7

    Quote Originally Posted by blueranger View Post
    @rareboy

    Only the Roman Catholic church and Eastern Orthodox church who consider gay sex a sin have more or about the same number of members as all the other churches together.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s_in_the_world



    That's great! As I've said, I come from an Eastern Orthodox oriented country (90% of general population) and gay marriage in this church would be only a fiction.
    Oh, and I forgot to add the bold part.

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