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Thread: Blame Reagan?

  1. #51
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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    You're uninformed. Deinstitutionalisation of the mentally ill started well before the Reagan Administration. Interest and reliance on drugs, poor conditions with the hospitals, and the desire to spend less on care started decades earlier and escalated in the 60's an 70's.

    One of the big problems with the treatment of mental illness has been increased abuse of drugs and alcohol which took over much of the funding from mental illness and pretty much replaced the focus away from mental illness.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinstitutionalisation
    Gotta love how you cite an article that disagrees with about every word you said.

    Last edited by Kulindahr; February 16th, 2013 at 08:47 PM.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  2. #52
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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    No ... it was not mainly under Reagan. The trend to close mental hospitals goes back to the 1920's.
    Sorry, but according to studies by the national advocacy for the mentally ill groups, the number of hospitals and available beds both increased from the start of the twentieth century up through 1955, when a peak was reached.

    Now, thanks most recently to the last GOP effort in the White House, the US has fewer hospital beds available for mental health than at any time since before the Civil War.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    People are quite capable of taking care of themselves and each other.
    Don't you claim to be a Christian? If so, you can't possibly be saying that with a straight face.

    Of course, you can't possibly live in the real world and say that with a straight face, either.

    SOME people are capable as you say; MOST people don't give a crap; and today's so-called conservatives are far more interested in making sure the wealthy get all the help government can provide and leaving none for anyone else.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  4. #54
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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Government has only three legitimate functions:
    1. provide a standing army to protect us from without
    2. provide a police force to protect us from each other
    and
    3. provide a system of courts so that we may seek redress with each other.
    Well, the Founding Fathers would disagree with you on number 2, at least: while they lived, there was no such thing in the US as a "police force" -- that didn't start until 1835.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    It's harder for people to get firearms now than ever in US history. They used to be in the Sears catalog, there were no background checks, no license was required to sell them....
    Did Sears ever sell an AR-15 rifle or any similar adaptation?

    Not that it really matters - just order a Sig Sauer Tactical Rifle this afternoon while you're at Walmart grabbing those new plastic deck chairs you're after! You'll sleep easier on the patio with a rifle on hand that is "Designed for use in law enforcement and military operations".

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Your lies about history and the NRA have far less substance than blaming Reagan.
    I'll refer you to my earlier post in this thread to ingest EXACTLY why the NRA thinks you should own a gun.

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    You're not as well-informed as you bragged that you were. The first turnpikes were built by corporations. I learned this in 5th or 6th grade.
    You're playing with a logical fallacy warned against by none other than our first Republican president, Abraham Lincoln, namely using two meanings for the same word in an argument without informing your listeners.

    "Turnpike" in the late eighteenth century merely meant a privately built road that was accessed by the payment of a toll -- today we call them toll roads. The word today suggests freeways with interchanges, something entirely different.

    Until the time of the Interstate Highway System, roads were built and maintained by local and state governments, with some designated as "US Highways", which brought nothing more than signs so designating them -- no federal funds came with them, no level of quality was assured. Limited access highways were still rare at the time Eisenhower got the Interstate system going with its not merely limited but restricted-access highways -- what are called freeways because (theoretically) once on one one's way is free to travel swiftly.

    You're also playing a two-meaning game with the term "highway". Yes, there were "highways" back in the colonies, but they were called that for the reason monarchs in Europe had their "king's highways": they were merely roadbeds raised high enough to drain so that seasonal storms didn't turn them into muddy bogs untraversable for half the year. Today's highway may still be raised, but there the resemblance ends.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    ^ My Grandpa always admonished me to never publicly argue with an idiot; "Those witnessing the debate wouldn't be able to tell the difference."
    Never regret anything, because in that moment it's exactly what you wanted.

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    Did Sears ever sell an AR-15 rifle or any similar adaptation?
    .
    Sears has sold semi-automatic rifles for a long time.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  9. #59
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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    It's harder for people to get firearms now than ever in US history. They used to be in the Sears catalog, there were no background checks, no license was required to sell them....

    Your lies about history and the NRA have far less substance than blaming Reagan.
    There is a difference between being harder to get and taking longer to get. It is no harder today to get a firearm than it was when you could get them from Sears. It just takes longer since you have to wait for the pathetic excuse of a background check they do. As long as you don't have a criminal record, your gun will be your's in 7 days, no further questions asked.

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    You're playing with a logical fallacy warned against by none other than our first Republican president, Abraham Lincoln, namely using two meanings for the same word in an argument without informing your listeners.

    "Turnpike" in the late eighteenth century merely meant a privately built road that was accessed by the payment of a toll -- today we call them toll roads. The word today suggests freeways with interchanges, something entirely different.

    Until the time of the Interstate Highway System, roads were built and maintained by local and state governments, with some designated as "US Highways", which brought nothing more than signs so designating them -- no federal funds came with them, no level of quality was assured. Limited access highways were still rare at the time Eisenhower got the Interstate system going with its not merely limited but restricted-access highways -- what are called freeways because (theoretically) once on one one's way is free to travel swiftly.

    You're also playing a two-meaning game with the term "highway". Yes, there were "highways" back in the colonies, but they were called that for the reason monarchs in Europe had their "king's highways": they were merely roadbeds raised high enough to drain so that seasonal storms didn't turn them into muddy bogs untraversable for half the year. Today's highway may still be raised, but there the resemblance ends.
    There's a major flaw in your post. I didn't use the word highway. The fact remains that the first turnpikes were built by corporations.

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerfan482 View Post
    There is a difference between being harder to get and taking longer to get. It is no harder today to get a firearm than it was when you could get them from Sears. It just takes longer since you have to wait for the pathetic excuse of a background check they do. As long as you don't have a criminal record, your gun will be your's in 7 days, no further questions asked.
    Yup, exactly. Although this is where the NRA line will overexaggerate the degree to which a lot of people are out there in imminent physical danger and need the gun immediately, so holdups like this are unacceptable.

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Sears has sold semi-automatic rifles for a long time.
    Random fact: Ernest Hemingway killed himself with a Boss shotgun purchased at Abercrombie & Fitch.
    Last edited by maxpowr9; February 17th, 2013 at 05:24 PM.

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Hopefully purchased from a semi-nude underwear model.

  14. #64
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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by maxpowr9 View Post
    Random fact: Ernest Hemingway killed himself with a Boss shotgun purchased at Abercrombie & Fitch.
    I bet he paid four times as much as other places were selling it for as well.

  15. #65
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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerfan482 View Post
    There is a difference between being harder to get and taking longer to get. It is no harder today to get a firearm than it was when you could get them from Sears. It just takes longer since you have to wait for the pathetic excuse of a background check they do. As long as you don't have a criminal record, your gun will be your's in 7 days, no further questions asked.
    If it takes longer, it's harder. If there are fewer sources, it's harder.

    Ordering a gun from a catalog from the comfort of your home is easier than having to find a store that sells them, go down and wait for a sales person to unlock the cabinet so you can look at them, fill out extensive paperwork once you pick one, pay a fee to get your paperwork handled, then wait until the "instant" system does its thing.
    Last edited by Kulindahr; February 18th, 2013 at 12:12 PM.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    If it takes longer, it's harder. If there are fewer sources, it's harder.

    Ordering a gun from a catalog from the comfort of your home is easier than having to find a store that sells them, go down and wait for a sales person to unlock the cabinet so you can look at them, fill out extensive paperwork once you pick one, pay a fee to get your paperwork handled, then wait until the "instant" system does its thing.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The fact remains that by your word use fallacy, you are LYING.
    And that would still be far less hassle than getting married or getting divorced, or handling inheritance issues, or getting a driver's license.

  17. #67
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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    There's a major flaw in your post. I didn't use the word highway. The fact remains that the first turnpikes were built by corporations.
    The fact remains that by your word use fallacy, you are LYING.

    When you say "turnpike", this is the sort of image that comes to mind:




    But when you say the first ones were built by corporations, this is what you're referring to:




    BTW, dragging back toward the topic, we can thank Reagan for getting our modern interstate turnpike system completed at long last.


    But since the only association the mentally ill who shoot people have with highways is to get from the place where they got guns to the place where they shoot them, lets turn back to the issue of dumping mentally ill people on the street and the high correlation with the increase in the number of mass shootings.
    Last edited by Kulindahr; February 18th, 2013 at 12:20 PM.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Every year the when the far concervatives meet in March they hold a seance to raise Ronnie from the dead.

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