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Thread: Blame Reagan?

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    Blame Reagan?

    I ran across an article detailing a serious link between two social phenomena, both of which used to be rare. But when one began to increase, so did the other, with a lag of a few years.

    The first is non-institutionalization of late teen and early to mid twenties males with schizophrenia and some other severe mental disorders. Now, if blame can be pinned on the 'first mover', this has to be plopped at the feet of none other than Ronald Reagan (himself a schizophrenic sort of president, with some brilliant foreign policy and absolutely bizarre domestic), the one who got government to agree that not taking care of people is the best way to take care of them. So lots of mentally unstable young men were left to wander the streets, cling to families because they couldn't deal with the world, and turn a few jails in the United States into the world's largest de facto mental institutions.

    That's sad in itself; if we are a people, it behooves us to take care of "the least" among us, besides the fact that it makes good practical sense to care for such folks so they don't make a mess of the country for the rest of us. But it's truly tragic because of the very strong link to the other social phenomenon in question.

    And if we stick to the 'first mover' proposition, then it's entirely legitimate to lay the blame for the increase in mass shootings in America at the feet of Ronald Reagan.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

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    *the number is now forty

  2. #2
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    His domestic policy was worse than bizarre, but was rather criminal, but I think he only had a few good points when it comes to foreign policy. One can look at other botched foreign policies... like Iran/Contra and policy in Latin America as a whole. As well as policy in Afghanistan. Reagan's administration was one of the worst in the 20th century, perhaps just slightly behind Herbert Hoover. Republicans still praise him as if he's some religious figure and the entire mentality of the religious right saw its birth under his administration. I could write pages on how this man was nothing more than a criminal and a monster...

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    You cannot blame mass shootings on the non-institutionalization of schizophrenics.

    While it is true that many mass shooters are schizophrenic, the relative proportion of schizophrenics to the rest of society has not changed in thousands of years. In the past, they were not institutionalized, and yet they did not kill people en masse.

    What has changed is that now they have easy access to guns - and the NRA has encouraged them to use guns as a solution to life's problems.
    Last edited by T-Rexx; February 15th, 2013 at 12:13 PM.

  4. #4

    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Actually it was in the Carter administration that thousands of people were expelled from mental institutions. It was a furtherance of policies long in place which were championed by JFK.

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    This is a MAJOR issue for me, and I feel that much more could, and should, be done. Indeed I consider it criminal (and, in some cases, nothing short of premeditated murder) when these people are simply thrown into the world with no help or support of any kind.

    1. Two friends who worked at a mental institution were there until the day that it closed down, in the early 1980's. It's still hard for me to think about their story. They had bonded with some of the patients there. On that final day, some of the patients were crying, scared-to-death about what might happen to them. Some fortunate patients actually had homes or places to go to (family, etc.). The less fortunate were merely given $50 and a one-way bus ticket to Chicago. It was some of these latter patients who were crying and scared, and my friends are almost sure that some of these people died on the sidewalks and elsewhere, because they had lived in Chicago for many years before that job opened up in Dixon IL, and they know the reality of the streets.

    2. I was in an institution for 55 weeks during adolescence, and I came out with some "foundations" to build my life on. I seriously doubt that I would have survived, AND remained in freedom, and actually succeeded at anything, if I hadn't had that. I've never known how my stay was paid for - I assume through some part of my Dad's VA (Veterans) benefits - he fought in World War II. Therefore I am familiar, first hand, about the importance of mental health care.

    And as far as the durango post I see just above mine (posted while I was typing this), the Dixon, Illinois closure definitely happened under REAGAN, not Carter. It was 1982, I think - or 1983.
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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Durango95 View Post
    Actually it was in the Carter administration that thousands of people were expelled from mental institutions. It was a furtherance of policies long in place which were championed by JFK.
    Nope. 10char.

  7. #7

    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Perhaps Geraldo Rivera shares some of the blame. Those of us of a certain age who grew up in the New York City metro area remember the last good piece of journalism Rivera did, and in which he made his name for himself. As a reporter for a local TV station, he did an expose on the Willowbrook State Hospital in Staten Island, which mostly cared for developmentally disabled adults. The hospital was a house of horrors, and the patients lived in horrendous conditions. The expose was so sensational, and the public revulsion was so great, that it quickly led to the institutionalization of patients in mental hospitals in New York, and eventually all over the country.

    Of course, blame is the wrong word. Geraldo did a great public service by exposing the degrading conditions these patients faced. Unfortunately, the response was to de-institutionalize patients without providing sufficient support for the institutions that were then charged with their care or the individual patients themselves.
    Last edited by palemale; February 15th, 2013 at 01:29 PM.

  8. #8
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Durango95 View Post
    Actually it was in the Carter administration that thousands of people were expelled from mental institutions. It was a furtherance of policies long in place which were championed by JFK.
    Thanks for that tidbit of historical revisionism. Those on the right like to blame Jimmy Carter for everything... it was Reagan who cut government funding to these programs, not Carter.

    It's too bad Reagan didn't go to jail like the other people in his administration who were convicted of committing crimes.

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Yet the problem continues in how inaccessible mental health faculties are. The reason deinstitutionalization started was because medications were seen more effective and cheaper than long-term hospitalization with mixed results. The problem remains, cost of therapy and medication is still high as many people with long-term mental disorders are low income and therefore, cannot afford proper treatment.

  10. #10

    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Durango95 View Post
    Actually it was in the Carter administration that thousands of people were expelled from mental institutions. It was a furtherance of policies long in place which were championed by JFK.
    You are correct,except that the movement to deinstitutionalize was a liberal movement and resulted it President Kennedy'sCommunity Mental Health Centers Act of 1963. Further acts were passed by the Democrat controlled Congress but signed by Reagan, so of course the Liberals blame him for their ill own advised policy.

  11. #11
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    No, it originated under the Reagan administration and was pushed by him. Thanks for the further historical revisionism.

  12. #12

    Re: Blame Reagan?

    The NRA keep pushing this link between gun violence and mental health.
    We shouldn't listen to them.


    But public health and firearms experts assert that focusing on mental illness is unlikely to achieve a significant reduction in gun violence, because the vast majority of shootings are the handiwork of people who do not fit the profile of those deemed dangerous. Moreover, by shifting the debate away from gun control and toward mental health concerns, proponents run the risk of further stigmatizing mental illness, discouraging those who confront it from seeking professional help.

    "Gun violence is a mental health issue only to a very small extent and to a much smaller extent than most people assume," said Paul Appelbaum, a psychiatrist and the director of the Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons' Division of Law, Ethics and Psychiatry.

    "Most gun violence is just not committed by people with mental illness," he said. “Were we somehow to stop violence by anyone with a mental illness -- as unlikely as that outcome might be -- we would be safer, but only a teeny bit safer. As much as these incidents attract everybody's attention and concern, they are a tiny fraction of the people who get killed in this country every year."
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...=jeffrey-young

  13. #13

    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    No, it originated under the Reagan administration and was pushed by him. Thanks for the further historical revisionism.
    You always demand sources from others, so lets see your proof of your clauim.

  14. #14
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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Where is your proof? Oh wait none exists. Thanks for more of the empty conjectures. I'm so sorry for criticizing the Reagan god... I realize he's the center piece of the republican party.

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by EastMed View Post
    The NRA keep pushing this link between gun violence and mental health.
    We shouldn't listen to them.
    The irony is that the gun crazies insist they need guns to defend against the government rounding us up into institutions.

    Then, they insist that the government round us up into institutions.

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    You always demand sources from others, so lets see your proof of your clauim.
    I did a quick hunt around and there are volumes of evidence supporting the criticism of Reagan's administration as the one that gutted mental health services in the US. In fact, Jimmy Carter's wife Rosalyn was a passionate supporter of Mental Health issues during and after her husband's Presidency. During Carter's tenure the milestone Mental Health Systems Act was passed. It was far from perfect, apparently...

    Yet it expanded the federal government's commitment to services, to research, to training professionals, and to patient rights. It identified stigma as an impediment to seeking and receiving services. It established parity in Medicaid and Medicare. It recognized the link between physical health and mental health. And it dedicated $800 million over 4 years to redress the gross neglect of the commitment to mental health in earlier administrations. In short, it moved an agenda that minimized homelessness, the reliance on expensive nursing homes, jails and prisons, and one that to more hopeful choices for those who needed help.
    Then came Reagan, who within months gutted expenditure.

    Within a month, the Office of Management Budget announced it would curtail the budget of the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH), phase out training of clinicians, interrupt research, and eliminate services. Cutbacks to staff followed; chaos ensued. Experienced people left, others remained in government service but were forced into menial jobs. Trained professionals were reassigned to labs to dissect dead rats; science writers were reassigned to typing pools. The Mental Health Systems Act would be disappear. Instead, the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (1982) would merge money for mental health programs into block grants, and with fewer dollars going to the states. They had the discretion to use them however they saw fit, often to perpetuate programs already deemed problematic. The pretense for all this was the president's concept of a "new federalism."

    "Many of our dreams were gone," wrote Rosalynn Carter in Helping Someone with Mental Illness. "It was a bitter loss."

    This could have been enough, but it was not. Pres. Reagan attempted to restrict criteria for determining eligibility for SSI, thought to be a safety-net. Nearly 2.6 million people were receiving insurance because their disability prevented them from working. New evaluations for eligibility led to widespread terminations. Of those who were terminated, about half appealed, and in two-thirds of the cases, administrative law judges reversed the decision. The process took nearly a year, during which time they, and their families, were deprived of promised help.
    http://www.miwatch.org/2011/02/_rona...nd_mental.html

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Ronnie Reagan kept his mind and mouth quite on the issue of AIDS when someone with balls could come forward he refused to act.

  18. #18

    Re: Blame Reagan?

    No, Andy, what we are debating is the issue of deinstitutionalization. That was a liberal movement, distinct from the issue of the Federal Government's funding of treatment generally. I would agree that Reagan was not a believer in socialized medicine, and not eager to fund it. But remember, he always had a Democrat house.
    Last edited by Benvolio; February 15th, 2013 at 05:04 PM.

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    The irony is that the gun crazies insist they need guns to defend against the government rounding us up into institutions.

    Then, they insist that the government round us up into institutions.
    You are quite correct. The NRA has made it it's business to nurture the fears and paranoia of US citizens.

    Here's a few excerpts from NRA boss Wayne LaPierre just a few days ago:

    Latin American drug gangs have invaded every city of significant size in the United States. Phoenix is already one of the kidnapping capitals of the world, and though the states on the U.S./Mexico border may be the first places in the nation to suffer from cartel violence, by no means are they the last.

    The president flagrantly defies the 2006 federal law ordering the construction of a secure border fence along the entire Mexican border. So the border today remains porous not only to people seeking jobs in the U.S., but to criminals whose jobs are murder, rape, robbery and kidnapping. Ominously, the border also remains open to agents of al Qaeda and other terrorist organizations.
    When the next terrorist attack comes, the Obama administration won’t accept responsibility.
    After Hurricane Sandy, we saw the hellish world that the gun prohibitionists see as their utopia. Looters ran wild in south Brooklyn. There was no food, water or electricity. And if you wanted to walk several miles to get supplies, you better get back before dark, or you might not get home at all.
    Hurricanes. Tornadoes. Riots. Terrorists. Gangs. Lone criminals. These are perils we are sure to face—not just maybe. It’s not paranoia to buy a gun. It’s survival.
    We, the American people, clearly see the daunting forces we will undoubtedly face: terrorists, crime, drug gangs, the possibility of Euro-style debt riots, civil unrest or natural disaster.
    http://dailycaller.com/2013/02/13/st...#ixzz2L141JvSs




    One thing is for sure. If you want to really test the resilience of someone with paranoid delusions, just play them an NRA speech. They'll be running for the gun shows to stock up before you can say "nuts".

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    No, Andy, what we are debating is the issue of deinstitutionalization. That was a liberal movement, distinct from the issue of the Federal Government's funding of treatment generally. I would agree that Reagan was not a believer in socialized medicine, and not eager to fund it. But remember, he always had a Democrat house.
    De-institutionalization certainly started under JFK, but if you read the article I posted above you will also have read how the services that were put in place to assist patients outside institutions were gutted by Reagan, leaving sick people without services, assessment, medication, insurance, housing etc etc.

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    You are correct,except that the movement to deinstitutionalize was a liberal movement and resulted it President Kennedy'sCommunity Mental Health Centers Act of 1963. Further acts were passed by the Democrat controlled Congress but signed by Reagan, so of course the Liberals blame him for their ill own advised policy.
    No, Benvolio is surprisingly right on this. Rosemary Kennedy had a lobotomy at the request of her family which lead to the founding of the Special Olympics due to the condition it left her in after the treatment. JFK did not anyone to end up like his sister and so he started the ball rolling on gutting mental hospitals.

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by maxpowr9 View Post
    No, Benvolio is surprisingly right on this. Rosemary Kennedy had a lobotomy at the request of her family which lead to the founding of the Special Olympics due to the condition it left her in after the treatment. JFK did not anyone to end up like his sister and so he started the ball rolling on gutting mental hospitals.
    Cough cough.

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    De-institutionalization certainly started under JFK, but if you read the article I posted above you will also have read how the services that were put in place to assist patients outside institutions were gutted by Reagan, leaving sick people without services, assessment, medication, insurance, housing etc etc.
    Deinstitutionalization where people had lived in horrible quality of life with their teeth all removed, eating through straws and being beaten, neglected or sexually assaulted away from the public eye, and simply gutting the entire program for any sort of accountability for these people where, literally, schizophrenics just started wandering the streets (you still see a lot of the original committees wandering around as homeless people in Northern California where nearby mental health facilities closed under Reagan) are two different things.

    Concluding "JFK did it" is the usual lazy reasoning around here.
    Last edited by xbuzzerx; February 15th, 2013 at 06:33 PM.

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    I do blame Reagan. While I wouldn't credit him with the advent of the "every man for himself" mentality of the Republican party, I will say he did a lot towards making it mainstream and accepted by those who pledge their allegiance to him. When you maintain that mentality, issues like those with mental health issues being left to fend for themselves in the world of private insurance and expensive mental care grow to disastrous levels. It's really time that we as a country realize that we can't ignore the weak and disadvantaged citizens in hopes that they disappear or that their problems take care of themselves. We really need to understand that while we are a nation of individuals where hard work can pay off, that we still have an obligation to those who are less fortunate or afflicted with problems in life to help them out and ensure that they can have access to what is needed to help them get through their problems.

    Honestly, the problems we face as a nation in regards to issues such as these aren't from spending money and resources to help these people. It's from trying to force through the idea that people have to do everything for themselves and any help from government should be viewed as weakness and waste.

  24. #24

    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    Thanks for that tidbit of historical revisionism. Those on the right like to blame Jimmy Carter for everything... it was Reagan who cut government funding to these programs, not Carter.

    It's too bad Reagan didn't go to jail like the other people in his administration who were convicted of committing crimes.
    You're uninformed. Deinstitutionalisation of the mentally ill started well before the Reagan Administration. Interest and reliance on drugs, poor conditions with the hospitals, and the desire to spend less on care started decades earlier and escalated in the 60's an 70's.

    One of the big problems with the treatment of mental illness has been increased abuse of drugs and alcohol which took over much of the funding from mental illness and pretty much replaced the focus away from mental illness.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinstitutionalisation

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    You're uninformed. Deinstitutionalisation of the mentally ill started well before the Reagan Administration. Interest and reliance on drugs, poor conditions with the hospitals, and the desire to spend less on care started decades earlier and escalated in the 60's an 70's.

    One of the big problems with the treatment of mental illness has been increased abuse of drugs and alcohol which took over much of the funding from mental illness and pretty much replaced the focus away from mental illness.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinstitutionalisation
    "Started before."

    This is like equating a plan to lower the prison populations with someone just abruptly cutting the budget for prisons with no plan for how to handle the mass release of prisoners.

  26. #26
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    You're uninformed. Deinstitutionalisation of the mentally ill started well before the Reagan Administration. Interest and reliance on drugs, poor conditions with the hospitals, and the desire to spend less on care started decades earlier and escalated in the 60's an 70's.

    One of the big problems with the treatment of mental illness has been increased abuse of drugs and alcohol which took over much of the funding from mental illness and pretty much replaced the focus away from mental illness.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinstitutionalisation
    I'm far more informed than the right wingers on here. Those programs that were launched under Carter were gutted by Reagan. Reagan gutted a great deal of everything. It was MAINLY under Reagan. People can try to deflect the blame so their lord god savior Reagan is not blamed. I'm sorry I offended those who follow them like a mythic figure.

    There may have been a marginal decline in funding (but it went back up under Carter). Reagan on the other hand killed numerous programs... and killed people in the process.

  27. #27

    Re: Blame Reagan?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    I'm far more informed than the right wingers on here. Those programs that were launched under Carter were gutted by Reagan. Reagan gutted a great deal of everything. It was MAINLY under Reagan. People can try to deflect the blame so their lord god savior Reagan is not blamed. I'm sorry I offended those who follow them like a mythic figure.

    There may have been a marginal decline in funding (but it went back up under Carter). Reagan on the other hand killed numerous programs... and killed people in the process.
    Americans have never wanted socialized medicine, so Reagan scaled down the elaborate tax funded welfare systems of Carter. We have never found a way to keep assistance programs from becoming a way of life for the beneficiaries. But deinstitutionalism was a liberal movement which preceded Reagan.
    Last edited by Benvolio; February 15th, 2013 at 08:24 PM.

  28. #28

    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    I'm far more informed than the right wingers on here. Those programs that were launched under Carter were gutted by Reagan. Reagan gutted a great deal of everything. It was MAINLY under Reagan. People can try to deflect the blame so their lord god savior Reagan is not blamed. I'm sorry I offended those who follow them like a mythic figure.

    There may have been a marginal decline in funding (but it went back up under Carter). Reagan on the other hand killed numerous programs... and killed people in the process.
    No ... it was not mainly under Reagan. The trend to close mental hospitals goes back to the 1920's.

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    No ... it was not mainly under Reagan. The trend to close mental hospitals goes back to the 1920's.
    Trend to close =/= abruptly hack the budget and pour people out on the street.

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerfan482 View Post
    . .

    the idea that people have to do everything for themselves and any help from government should be viewed as weakness and waste.
    Helping people is not a legitimate function of government. People are quite capable of taking care of themselves and each other.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    I'm far more informed than the right wingers on here. .
    Now that is a massive load of bovine excreta.

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    This statement is wrong:
    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Helping people is not a legitimate function of government.
    …because this statement is true:
    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    People are quite capable of taking care of themselves and each other.
    Government is something people do to help their own interests, and to help each other at the same time.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    - - - Updated - - -



    Americans have never wanted socialized medicine, so Reagan scaled down the elaborate tax funded welfare systems of Carter. We have never found a way to keep assistance programs from becoming a way of life for the beneficiaries. But deinstitutionalism was a liberal movement which preceded Reagan.
    Americans never wanted blah blah blah... yeah... the republicans and right wingers sure did know what Americans want. When they marched into the last election in a massive defeat. The last people who know what the American people want are republicans. Reagan deluded and lied to an entire nation with his bullshit.

  33. #33
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Trend to close =/= abruptly hack the budget and pour people out on the street.
    Thank you. Republicans are all about throwing people out ont he street. Can't afford health care? Too bad. Only lazy people can't afford expensive health care. That's the way they think! They think anybody who doesn't have the financial resources is lazy... and that mindset is a dangerous condition itself.

    It's funny how not one right winger here can back himself up... they just fall in the same trap always blame the other side for the disgusting policies Reagan pushed. Reagan gutted programs and left many people to die. He is nothing more than a criminal. I wonder how a gay person can defend that asshole anyways.... after his criminal response to the HIV/AIDS epidemic.
    Last edited by GiancarloC; February 15th, 2013 at 11:16 PM.

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    While there needs to be better mental health care in this country,the fact remains only 4% of violent crimes are carried out by someone with a mental illiness.
    THis is simply scapegoating them so we won't talk about gun control.

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Helping people is not a legitimate function of government. People are quite capable of taking care of themselves and each other.
    Insuring domestic tranquility and promoting the general welfare are two charges of government called out in the Preamble to the Constitution. I would saying helping those unable to help themselves fall into both of those categories.

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    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    [Quoted Post: Removed]
    You don't have to hate Americans to hate Reagonomics. And nobody is obliged to love that package of bad ideas.
    Last edited by opinterph; February 16th, 2013 at 11:53 AM. Reason: removed verbiage quoted from another poster
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    This statement is wrong:

    …because this statement is true:

    Government is something people do to help their own interests, and to help each other at the same time.
    Government has only three legitimate functions:
    1. provide a standing army to protect us from without
    2. provide a police force to protect us from each other
    and
    3. provide a system of courts so that we may seek redress with each other.

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    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Government has only three legitimate functions:
    1. provide a standing army to protect us from without
    2. provide a police force to protect us from each other
    and
    3. provide a system of courts so that we may seek redress with each other.
    History and reason show how wrong that view is.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    . chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerfan482 View Post
    Insuring domestic tranquility and promoting the general welfare are two charges of government called out in the Preamble to the Constitution. I would saying helping those unable to help themselves fall into both of those categories.
    The Neocon faithful insist that America has a "Judeo-Christian" tradition starting with "the founding fathers." Nothing could be further from the truth.

    That Christian jive you hear from our Neocon brothers is simply that. They try to further their agenda by preaching how Christian they are and how sinful and disgusting you "liberals" are from their self-righteous high horses. When someone pointed out: "Christian Right. It ain't Christian and it ain't right"... QFT

    However, if this actually were a Christian nation, a cornerstone of its beliefs would come from this community organizer - a radical socialist and an enemy of the state:

    34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

    37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

    40“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
    Matthew 25: 31-46
    Last edited by chrisrobin; February 16th, 2013 at 10:20 AM.

    ...with history the final judge of our deeds. - JFK

  40. #40
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    [Quoted Post: Removed]
    What right wing nonsense. I can't stand Reagan and it is supported by facts. I love the people and the workers. The workers were screwed by Reaganomics. And what socialist welfare haven? Don't make this personal. You don't know anything about me.
    Last edited by opinterph; February 16th, 2013 at 11:54 AM. Reason: removed verbiage quoted from another poster

  41. #41
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Government has only three legitimate functions:
    1. provide a standing army to protect us from without
    2. provide a police force to protect us from each other
    and
    3. provide a system of courts so that we may seek redress with each other.
    Wrong on all counts.

    And Eisenhower would tell anyone who espouses that libertarian nonsense. What is infrastructure? what are highways? These were built either by the government or by government funding. Thanks for telling us the distorted Ayn Rand nonsensical view.

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    ? what are highways? These were built either by the government or by government funding. .
    You're not as well-informed as you bragged that you were. The first turnpikes were built by corporations. I learned this in 5th or 6th grade.

    http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/k...wski.turnpikes

    And the pendulum is once again swinging in that direction.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private..._United_States

  43. #43
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    You're not as well-informed as you bragged that you were. The first turnpikes were built by corporations. I learned this in 5th or 6th grade.

    http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/k...wski.turnpikes

    And the pendulum is once again swinging in that direction.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private..._United_States
    Massive baloney. Most of the highways were not private.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_Highway_System

    http://nationalatlas.gov/articles/tr...a_highway.html

    I'm FAR MORE informed. The first real interstate system in the US was government built and government funded. This is the biggest free way system in the country... and all the minor examples of "private freeways" don't stack up. The Federal Aid Highway act of 1956 was monumental in this nation's history.

    The pendulum was never in your direction.
    Last edited by GiancarloC; February 16th, 2013 at 11:27 AM.

  44. #44
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Is HenryReardon really alluding to the Robber Baron period as a good example of why capitalism is better than socialism?

    Poor Henry.

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    Massive baloney. Most of the highways were not private.

    .
    You read, but you failed to comprehend. As is to be expected.

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Is HenryReardon really alluding to the Robber Baron period as a good example of why capitalism is better than socialism?

    .

    Another liberal who reads but fails to comprehend.
    Robber barons (whatever they are) were not mentioned.

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    You don't have to hate Americans to hate Reagonomics. And nobody is obliged to love that package of bad ideas.
    David Stockman quit the Reagan Administration. Said that "supply side" doesn't work.

    Chris' two-cents worth: trickle down economics = golden shower.

    ...with history the final judge of our deeds. - JFK

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    JUB Addict maxpowr9's Avatar
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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Even today not all roads are run by the government. Hell one billionaire owns the only bridge that connects Detroit to canada. Fuck Detroit voters rejected the fully-funded construction of another bridge because it would have been built by Canada. Guess who lobbyied against it? Said billionaire. So to say "robber barons" are some bygone thing is ignorance.

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    Sex God tigerfan482's Avatar
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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Government has only three legitimate functions:
    1. provide a standing army to protect us from without
    2. provide a police force to protect us from each other
    and
    3. provide a system of courts so that we may seek redress with each other.
    You obviously missed the entire first paragraph of the Constitution when studying it.

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    Re: Blame Reagan?

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerfan482 View Post
    You obviously missed the entire first paragraph of the Constitution when studying it.
    The constitution has nothing to do with my post.

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