Illinois Senate Marriage Equality Debate

[JockBoy87]

The feed is pretty choppy but here is the link to live coverage of the Senate debate today.

http://www.ilga.gov/senate/audvid.asp#

Illinois passed civil unions two years ago, but Democrats are already pushing an equal marriage bill expected to pass into law this year. Senator Heather Steans filed the bill earlier this year, with a successful committee vote 9-5. The Illinois Senate has a Democratic supermajority 40-19. The Democrats have a majority in the House as well, 71-47.

Hopefully a vote will follow today.

[T-Rexx]

Given the size of the Democratic majority in the Senate, this looks good for a tenth gay marriage state.

[Ninja108]

There are some Democrats that will vote against it but not enough to stop it.

[White Eagle]

A lot of those Illinois voters need to move to Texas.

[JockBoy87]

A lot of those Illinois voters need to move to Texas.

It's happening in a lot of southern states such as Florida and even North Carolina. I'm not sure about Texas.

[Rolyo85]

The bill passed with 34-21!

[JockBoy87]

Congrats! Half way there Rolyo

[Rolyo85]

So excited ^_^

[JockBoy87]

So excited ^_^

As you should be.

Illinois, its prestige, and its 13 million people will be a major asset in this fight.

As it is we only have a single state in the top ten in population. With Illinois, that makes two in the top five. On Quinn's signature, the number of Americans living in a marriage equality jurisdiction will grow by over a quarter.

[Red Storm]

Way to go Illinois.

[GiancarloC]

It's too bad the largest state still is lagging in this regard... we really need to get our act together but it's tied up in the Supreme Court. I'm happy for Illinois and it does have some political sway in this country... republicans hate the state obviously and love attacking it whenever they get a chance (even on this forum).

[Apollo]

This is great news for Illinois and me as I want to settle down in Chicago once I am done with this shit in California.

And do keep the republican voters out of Texas. My home state is fine without them and it is projected Texas might become a swing state in subsequent elections. Which would be awesome considering the size of the population and amount of electoral votes we have.

[chrisrobin]

.
Some details:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/p...,5929022.story

Republican Sen. Tim Bivins, a former sheriff from Dixon who occasionally preaches from a church pulpit, argued vehemently against allowing same-sex couples to wed.

Bivins sought to buttress his position with historical comments ranging from those of Thomas Jefferson, one of the nation's founders, to Jesus Christ and Elijah, major figures in the Bible's New and Old Testaments.

"We're knocking down one of the basic foundations of society," Bivins said.

From all indications, opponents of gay marriage such as Sen. Tim Bivins seem to be in a state of panic.

Hold the phone... bill still needs to be approved by the Illinois House - the votes should be there.

[Rolyo85]

Haha, the re is definitely not enough JUB representation in Chi-town!

[JB3]

.
Some details:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/p...,5929022.story


From all indications, opponents of gay marriage such as Sen. Tim Bivins seem to be in a state of panic.

Hold the phone... bill still needs to be approved by the Illinois House - the votes should be there.

The House will be more contentious than the Senate, but they should still have the votes. It also sounds like they won't bring it up unless they know 100% that it will pass.

[JockBoy87]

The House will be more contentious than the Senate, but they should still have the votes. It also sounds like they won't bring it up unless they know 100% that it will pass.

The voting percentage of Senate Democrats was 82.5%.

Translated in the House, that is 59 votes, which is exactly half of the chamber, necessitating at least one Republican to pass. I think that's likely. The House vote everyone agrees will be slim, even razor thin, but then so it was in Maryland too.

A House Committee could take up Senate Bill 10 in two weeks.

[scream4ever]

The voting percentage of Senate Democrats was 82.5%.

Translated in the House, that is 59 votes, which is exactly half of the chamber, necessitating at least one Republican to pass. I think that's likely. The House vote everyone agrees will be slim, even razor thin, but then so it was in Maryland too.

A House Committee could take up Senate Bill 10 in two weeks.

Remember too that if the vote in the House is close, some of the Democrats who may abstain/not show up will be more inclined to vote in favor to put it over the edge.

[RazorzEdge88]

So excited ^_^

Why? It's not a big deal. I'd feel bad for you if you'd be expected to get married because of this.

Marriage is kind of an absurd institution on its face. The simple fact that people need this "married" label for their relationships is nonsensical.

[Rolyo85]

Why? It's not a big deal. I'd feel bad for you if you'd be expected to get married because of this.

Marriage is kind of an absurd institution on its face. The simple fact that people need this "married" label for their relationships is nonsensical.

Yeah, ok, Ayn Rand. In the mean time, I'm so excited ^_^

[RazorzEdge88]

What the hell are you talking about? I've never even read Ayn Rand. I listened to one of her speeches and wanted to put a bullet in my head.

Do you take issue with what I said?

[JockBoy87]

Why? It's not a big deal. I'd feel bad for you if you'd be expected to get married because of this.

Marriage is kind of an absurd institution on its face. The simple fact that people need this "married" label for their relationships is nonsensical.

A lot of people not considering a marriage or appreciative of it are nonetheless enthusiastic about equal legal and cultural status for the LGBT community.

[Rolyo85]

Marriage equality is about ten times bigger than the actual issue of marriage, as JockBoy87 just implied. Whether you care about marriage - I happen to care - or whether you want to get married somewhere down the line - I happen to want to - is completely irrelevant.

[Kensei]

I rarely log in to JustUsBoys anymore, but when I come here daily it is to check the progress of Marriage Equality on these forums, specifically the updates from JockBoy87. Kudos to you. Congrats everyone on this win. I'm sure June will be historic.

[GiancarloC]

Yeah, ok, Ayn Rand. In the mean time, I'm so excited ^_^

Just ignore. Sometimes logic is too much of a foreign concept for certain trolls.

[RazorzEdge88]

Marriage equality is about ten times bigger than the actual issue of marriage, as JockBoy87 just implied. Whether you care about marriage - I happen to care - or whether you want to get married somewhere down the line - I happen to want to - is completely irrelevant.

It's highly relevant. Some of us don't want to have to conform to the marriage label, yet it will be forced on the gay community by fiat now that gay inc. have decided it's the most important battle of our time.

Just ignore. Sometimes logic is too much of a foreign concept for certain trolls.

See what I mean? The thought police have already determined I am a "troll" just because I don't want to have to deal with "marriage" and all of its baggage.

[Rolyo85]

The idea that gay marriage will be somehow forced on you is about as ludicrous as the Christians claiming it's forced on THEM. If you don't want gay marriage, you're free to not gay marry.

[JockBoy87]

It's highly relevant. Some of us don't want to have to conform to the marriage label, yet it will be forced on the gay community by fiat now that gay inc. have decided it's the most important battle of our time.

It's unfortunate that you share the religious right complaint of being "forced" into gay marriage. This is a completely baseless idea so by all means Crimea River.

This is only a prominent goal because the other goals such as non-discrimination laws have no support in the Republican House or those conservative states where there is no pro-gay majority.

[GiancarloC]

The idea that gay marriage will be somehow forced on you is about as ludicrous as the Christians claiming it's forced on THEM. If you don't want gay marriage, you're free to not gay marry.

Absolutely. Nobody is forcing marriage on anyone... if someone doesn't want to get married, it's fine. But there are many couples out there that went to get married. And he talks about baggage... some don't view it that way and if they want to get married that's fine. I am not ready for marriage to be honest, but I will fight for others to have that right.

Nobody is forcing gay people to get married. It's a serious lack of logic in that argument. Nobody is forcing anyone to conform to anything... this is just opening up the OPTION for gay couples to get married. Certain heterosexual couples don't conform to marriage therefore don't get married... and don't want to. If that's one prerogative, fine! But please don't reject that ability for others that want to get married.

[CoolBlue71]

I'll be adding this to the topic . . .

Obama’s Next Choice on Gay Marriage

By Richard Socarides
Feb. 15, 2013 | http://www.newyorker.com/online/blog...-marriage.html

Ever since President Obama’s sweeping embrace of gay equality in his recent Inaugural Address, the question for legal observers has been whether his Justice Department will follow up with Supreme Court arguments to match. The Court is scheduled to hear arguments in two potentially seminal gay-marriage cases next month, and the Administration is facing an important strategic legal decision.

[itsmejeff]

Stop using the term "equality" when this has nothing to do with actual equality. Allowing a percentage of the population to enter into a discriminatory institution (benefits-wise) is not "equality." For it to be "equality", all people must be offered the same benefits and preferences. Just because it is discriminating against other people does not mean it is not discriminatory.

Why? It's not a big deal. I'd feel bad for you if you'd be expected to get married because of this.

Marriage is kind of an absurd institution on its face. The simple fact that people need this "married" label for their relationships is nonsensical.

It is a fucking joke. It is not about labels though. It is about a legal class. People who are married get a fuckload of benefits that singles do not get. Benefits that singles cannot get. Married? You get an unlimited exemption to transfer assets to your spouse. Unmarried? Subject to the normal yearly and lifetime exemptions. Married for ten years? Spousal benefits from social security. Unmarried, but cohabitating for 50 years? Fuck you, you get nothing. Without the status, you cannot obtain benefits even though your relationship is basically the same.

That what this is truly about. If society became enlightened right now and decided to removed all public subsidies from marriage, then no one would give a fuck about it. They talk about hospital visits and rights (because there no health care proxies, right?) and love, but it is not about that. It is about the subsidies that they do not deserve, but society will not fight against.

I think it will change eventually. Unmarried/single adults as a percentage of total population are increasing over time. At some points, singles will have the power to eliminate this bullshit.

[rareboy]

The idea that gay marriage will be somehow forced on you is about as ludicrous as the Christians claiming it's forced on THEM. If you don't want gay marriage, you're free to not gay marry.

It is like an abortion. If you are against them, don't get one.

[JockBoy87]

Unmarried, but cohabitating for 50 years? Fuck you, you get nothing. Without the status, you cannot obtain benefits even though your relationship is basically the same.

Equity recognizes that unmarried people should not be legally handicapped.

Unfortunately, common law marriage is being phased out, and domestic partnerships/civil unions have reached their maximum extent among states that are likely to be open to instituting them.

[GiancarloC]

Stop using the term "equality" when this has nothing to do with actual equality. Allowing a percentage of the population to enter into a discriminatory institution (benefits-wise) is not "equality." For it to be "equality", all people must be offered the same benefits and preferences. Just because it is discriminating against other people does not mean it is not discriminatory.

It has fucking everything to do with equality. Don't go making ridiculous demands of people on here. Marriage entails many different rights and that is most definitely about equality under the law. This is basic constitutional law. Perhaps go take some basic constitutional law classes to get why people argue that it is about equality, rather than saying the same old empty conjectures. And "just because it is discriminating against other people does not mean it is not discriminatory"? What kind of distorted logic is that?

Go check the anger out the door please... while I might swear sometimes, doing it excessively doesn't helping the total lack of logic or lack of an argument.

[Rolyo85]

It is like an abortion. If you are against them, don't get one.

Not even! At least there is an actual moral argument where abortion is concerned. With gay marriage it's not even that. Literally NOBODY is harmed in ANY way by two dudes or chicks marrying.

[JockBoy87]

Looks like geography is going to be more of a factor than partisanship in the House vote.

http://www.wbez.org/news/how-geograp...-debate-105569

The House has three months to pass the bill, but some at Lambda Legal are hopeful for final passage in March.

[Rolyo85]

Why the suspense? -_- In Washington the House and Senate votes were within a week of each other...

[RazorzEdge88]

The idea that gay marriage will be somehow forced on you is about as ludicrous as the Christians claiming it's forced on THEM. If you don't want gay marriage, you're free to not gay marry.

Really, am I? This was me for about two weeks, sometime last fall:



-I was despondent like that all because my wonderful boyfriend broke up with me all because I would not agree to get married someday.

If gay marriage becomes a reality, gay marriage becomes the new normal. If gay marriage becomes the new normal, gay men everywhere will embrace it and expect it out of their relationships. Not only that, but society will expect it out of you, too. I don't want prodding questions when I'm 30 about "why aren't you married?!?"

We've seen effect of these phenomena before. Nowadays, if you aren't sassy and boyishly charming like the little gay boys on Glee, you simply don't measure up as a gay man. This is all part of a greater desire by gay inc. to force its pigeonholed definition of what it means to be gay on our community.

And you know what's sad? You better believe part of this is so they can create more gay Republicans. I've seen how a lot of these gay rights orgs. are trying to treat the Republicans with kid gloves, kneeling before any of them who vote for gay marriage, conveniently disregarding the fact that even gay-friendly Republicans want to let corporations pollute this planet into an uninhabitable hellscape.

But it's ok, as you as you line up, let the fashionistas do what they want with you, embrace a robotic attitude, get married, put up your white picket fence, and become a Schwarzenegger/Nixon Republican, you should have nothing to fear!! :c\

[Rolyo85]

Really, am I? This was me for about two weeks, sometime last fall:



-I was despondent like that all because my wonderful boyfriend broke up with me all because I would not agree to get married someday.

If gay marriage becomes a reality, gay marriage becomes the new normal. If gay marriage becomes the new normal, gay men everywhere will embrace it and expect it out of their relationships. Not only that, but society will expect it out of you, too. I don't want prodding questions when I'm 30 about "why aren't you married?!?"

We've seen effect of these phenomena before. Nowadays, if you aren't sassy and boyishly charming like the little gay boys on Glee, you simply don't measure up as a gay man. This is all part of a greater desire by gay inc. to force its pigeonholed definition of what it means to be gay on our community.

And you know what's sad? You better believe part of this is so they can create more gay Republicans. I've seen how a lot of these gay rights orgs. are trying to treat the Republicans with kid gloves, kneeling before any of them who vote for gay marriage, conveniently disregarding the fact that even gay-friendly Republicans want to let corporations pollute this planet into an uninhabitable hellscape.

But it's ok, as you as you line up, let the fashionistas do what they want with you, embrace a robotic attitude, get married, put up your white picket fence, and become a Schwarzenegger/Nixon Republican, you should have nothing to fear!! :c\

This is absolutely unfair. Straight people have had to deal with exactly the same problems since the dawn of civilization, and somehow they still manage to have relationships. I am sorry you had to break up with your bf, but ultimately, marriage isn't at fault here. Even ignoring all the legal benefits, marriage is simply a symbol. Some people care deeply about symbols, and some don't or even hate them. While it sucks when you click with someone on other levels but for that ONE thing, you can't ask to keep something away from people who, in their majority, want it, just because it was the reason for an unsuccessful relationship.

It could just as easily have been children. Some gay (and straight for that matter) guys don't want kids. I absolutely want to have kids. If a guy I am dating doesn't want them, then it's an insurmountable deal breaker. What are we gonna do, prevent gay guys from having children?


Thumbs up for the video selection though

[tigerfan482]

Bravo to Illinois. I hope this passes and we can add yet another state to the growing list of those that realize equal treatment under the law is the best way to go.

[JB3]

It's highly relevant. Some of us don't want to have to conform to the marriage label, yet it will be forced on the gay community by fiat now that gay inc. have decided it's the most important battle of our time.



See what I mean? The thought police have already determined I am a "troll" just because I don't want to have to deal with "marriage" and all of its baggage.

No, you're being called a troll because you're insulting those of us that DO want marriage, or DO see the marriage equality battle as signifying bigger and better things to come.

[GiancarloC]

No, you're being called a troll because you're insulting those of us that DO want marriage, or DO see the marriage equality battle as signifying bigger and better things to come.

/\/\/\/\

Kudos for calling him out. We may have had our disagreements, but we know a troll when we see one.

[RazorzEdge88]

This is absolutely unfair. Straight people have had to deal with exactly the same problems since the dawn of civilization, and somehow they still manage to have relationships. I am sorry you had to break up with your bf, but ultimately, marriage isn't at fault here. Even ignoring all the legal benefits, marriage is simply a symbol. Some people care deeply about symbols, and some don't or even hate them. While it sucks when you click with someone on other levels but for that ONE thing, you can't ask to keep something away from people who, in their majority, want it, just because it was the reason for an unsuccessful relationship.

It could just as easily have been children. Some gay (and straight for that matter) guys don't want kids. I absolutely want to have kids. If a guy I am dating doesn't want them, then it's an insurmountable deal breaker. What are we gonna do, prevent gay guys from having children?


Thumbs up for the video selection though

Thanks for the civil response. I get where you're coming from.

I guess I'm just resistant to some parts of the modern gay movement. I'm probably generalizing too much.

(glad you liked the video too - not to get OT but I'm stoked for the 2013 comeback)

No, you're being called a troll because you're insulting those of us that DO want marriage, or DO see the marriage equality battle as signifying bigger and better things to come.

Why does that make me a troll, and how is anything I've said "insulting"? I haven't insulted anyone - I've posted my honest opinion on this.

I wasn't coming at this from a perspective of "you gays don't deserve marriage" like some douchebags (including some GAY MEN with internalized homophobia). I just wanted to reject "mainstreamization" of gay life in the 21st century.

Why is that so horrible?

I also find it ironic that the people most vocal about "trolling" are the ones being the most specious, snide, and instigating in their responses. Typical.

[RazorzEdge88]

/\/\/\/\

Kudos for calling him out. We may have had our disagreements, but we know a troll when we see one.

Yet you're the one making these lame attempts at "pithy remarks" that are so clearly meant to incite.

[JockBoy87]

If gay marriage becomes a reality, gay marriage becomes the new normal. If gay marriage becomes the new normal, gay men everywhere will embrace it and expect it out of their relationships. Not only that, but society will expect it out of you, too. I don't want prodding questions when I'm 30 about "why aren't you married?!?"

The same thing is said about gay adoption, that as soon as we got the right to adopt jointly, then all the sudden gay men everywhere would be pressured to adopt children. Well that didn't happen, and neither will it happen on marriage.

It is also ironic that the people in the gay community opposing gay marriage because it is too traditional are all so worried about being pressured to be traditional.

Others and I are not going to stop advocating equality for the gay community just so you and others can be *assured* that you will never feel hypothetical pressure that has not materialized in other areas of gay rights.

[RazorzEdge88]

I read somewhere (sorry, I don't have the source so this is probably meaningless to you now, but humor me) recently that more and more gay men (i.e. younger ones) are expecting to have kids, so yes, that has changed things. I don't think it's for the worse (I think gay adoption is a great thing for people willing and able), but it's definitely changing things. Doesn't that poke a huge hole in your argument if true?

It would have been sufficient to say that the desires of gay men who want to continue to see their lives as alternative lifestyles don't get to trump the desires of those who simply want equal rights.

By making some conjecture about how the overarching opinions of the gay community might not have changed, you really went out on a limb, and not a very sturdy one at that.

[DigitalFudge]

Can't believe this even needs to be debated

[JB3]

Can't believe this even needs to be debated

It doesn't. Some gays don't seem to understand that it isn't actually about marriage. I pity them.

[JB3]

Thanks for the civil response. I get where you're coming from.

I guess I'm just resistant to some parts of the modern gay movement. I'm probably generalizing too much.

(glad you liked the video too - not to get OT but I'm stoked for the 2013 comeback)



Why does that make me a troll, and how is anything I've said "insulting"? I haven't insulted anyone - I've posted my honest opinion on this.

I wasn't coming at this from a perspective of "you gays don't deserve marriage" like some douchebags (including some GAY MEN with internalized homophobia). I just wanted to reject "mainstreamization" of gay life in the 21st century.

Why is that so horrible?

I also find it ironic that the people most vocal about "trolling" are the ones being the most specious, snide, and instigating in their responses. Typical.

Spare me. You have insulted people in this thread several times. You plainly don't understand the motive behind the battle for marriage equality, and your analysis and criticism is superficial at best.

[RazorzEdge88]

It doesn't. Some gays don't seem to understand that it isn't actually about marriage. I pity them.

A debate about marriage is not actually about marriage.

LMFAO!

- - - Updated - - -

Spare me. You have insulted people in this thread several times. You plainly don't understand the motive behind the battle for marriage equality, and your analysis and criticism is superficial at best.

Where had I insulted anyone before your criticism? If you could point to one instance, I'll send you Cubs season tickets.

[GiancarloC]

Can't believe this even needs to be debated

Leave it to the au-contrarians. They always have something to complain about... never mind they seem to project the image they are unhappy that they can't get a boyfriend (as far as this topic is concerned).