1/7 human is Chinese
1/7 human is Chinese
How you have the above worded makes me think that there are no mediocre black or Latin guys on JUB but no problem with pointing out there are mediocre white guys. When in fact I would counter there are mediocre guys who don't turn you on from all points on the compass, even broader there are mediocre men & woman everywhere. So my favorite color is green and your's is blue doesn't mean either is mediocre just different to eyes wired to different backgrounds and brains.
I know from reading your post the kind of guys you find hot don't make my noodle bark at the moon. From your frequently posted view points I realize the kind of guy I am or what I like makes you nauseous in the looks dept.
Overall I agree with you however the road is 2 ways and cliches are applied to white guys too within those groups of ethic heritage and color that is always ignored, including their own.
Broaden the spectrum to include the current disdain and down right nasty hatred for HIV pos guys from many of various races and backgrounds. The un-dateables who should really just disappear. There are many examples in addition to this. These are not covered only racial topics in the op gay chat room research, how come?
That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
- Gene Wolfe
I think there's a certain sense of "The Grass is Greener" syndrome going on here, and "truth" is subject to the observer.Originally Posted by GiancarloC
Even on JUB, mediocre looking white guys get more attention than black or latin men (this is my own observation!). People can argue all they want, but the truth is the truth.
I am a 'mediocre' white guy, and from my point of view (my own observation!) I've seen lots of black and latin men get WAY more attention then I ever have on here. (Which they should... they were DAMN good lookin' !!!)
**Scans actively for summary of origional post/unable to find/ proceeds to comment nontheless**
What astonishes me more than anything in the world is how other segregated groups have completely turned their back onthe gay community. If you look at statistics, the African/American, Hispanic, and Middle Eastern populations have been some of the worst offenders, (specifically within the USA).
First link I could find on google. I didn't read it. However, it was recent.
I did skim for keywords in the article and saw bits and peices that are consistent with my claims.
What people are pointing out to you is that, on the whole, they are more pro-gay-rights than whites. And the only reason that number isn't bigger is because of religion.
I'm not too overly convinced that the numbers are solely due to religion, but it is a contributing factor. Black men tend to be far less accepting of same sex marriage whereas they tend to have similar numbers in religious affiliation
As far as your Latino comment. I didn't realize that it was so high. However, my other statements are extremely true. Pick and choose all you want, it doesn't bother me. Call my arguments fallacious, that's fine with me, but you're just avoiding the point.
I will give Obama credit though; he does have a way of swinging public opinions on social issues. Since he came out in support of same sex marriage (whether he is or isn't is a different topic). But since he has officially supported it (for the second time in political carreer), public opinions have increased significantly.
Let me just set things straight. You guys attack me from every oriface in my body, find one thing that I said that was wrong, then claim a victory? Congratufuckulations!! So, get over yourselves, and stick to the topics, or just don't post. It's kind of annoying and pathetic, to say the very least.
And for the other record, I can't defend myself against GiancarloC since I put him on ignore and can no longer read what he posts. So if I don't reply to him, that's why
If it wasn't your intent to make that sort of implication then my apologies. But it certainly wouldn't be the first time I'd heard that sort of a bigoted, dismissive attitude from someone in the hard sciences about everything in the social sciences, as if it's all just baseless opinion and so everyone has an equally valid claim or opinion on it.
Not all of it is fluff. However, I do agree, we do often think that some of the stuff, and conclusions are fluff. The good social sciences are purely logical, or mathematically supported, or both. I have run into my fair share of social pseudoscience though; (I had to sit through a two hour lecture on sexism). Not that I disagree with some of the claims, but many of them I found to be utter shit (apprently it's sexist to call a woman a girl but it's not sexist to call a man a boy) <---- Social power sctructure bullshit. Of course you can apply the scientific method to social issues, and it is done very well, very often. However, it is also done, equally often, with horrible implementation. For me, the worst part is the statistics that is done in social sciences to back claims. (which is the reason I tend to stay away from numbers because they are often obtained in biased ways with the distinct intent to back claims). It's done more often than I like in the hard sciences too. That stuff is thankfully filtered through in the big scientific journals though.
I tend to be more accepting of the social sciences mostly because I was a liberal arts major before a hard science major. I really like sociology and psychology, however, I don't think some of the popular beliefs are very accurate to reality but that they actually have a more political sway.
Likewise with times of conflict - Alexander's empire spanned half the globe. So did Ghenghis Khan's. Khan's was 30 generations or more ago; and Alexander's 1500 years before that. These guys operated on the principle of rape and pillage. Where are the descendants? A massive army comes in and kills the men and impregnates the women, I'd have thought it would be quite obvious in later years. And yet it doesn't seem to have been; at least, not in terms of appearance. Perhaps the evidence is more at a sub-cellular level - different enzyme isoforms and so on.
As I said, I'd be interested to see what it looks like in 1000 years' time.
All that time could have been used on useful studies, was used on what 98% have done. Use a fake dating profile.
Going back on this racism/interracial dating in the gay culture, I'm going to reveal all the secrets. lol.
White guys love to flirt, especially to more masculine looking GBM. They won't go up and approach and ask the guy out, but he will simply flirt. Ain't nothing wrong with that, but c'mon man. Let's be friends. :P
Since I lived in Toronto and Los Angeles, I can only speak for those areas. Usually in the west hollywood area, it's a lot of S&M crap going on. Gay bear/hipster culture is very interracial. Same with the twink. Reason as to why I love LA. White guys can't keep their eyes off me. I know back east in Atlanta, D.C., Brooklyn, the same can't be said.
In some sad cases, If you are a black/asian guy, the white guy will not want to be seen in public with you. Everything will be behind closed doors at his convenience. Occasionally he will take you out to lunch or dinner or to the movies and shit like that, but that's once in a blue moon. He will probably never introduce you to his white friends or family and usually it's late night early morning rendezvous in his bedroom.
I completely agree with another poster that said minority gay men, especially gay black men need to seek men from other countries. My boyfriend was born in Croatia and is Croatian/Italian and with a student visa he migrated to Los Angeles in 2010 to transfer in UCLA where I dropped out of. :P
He is now an American citizen . and he is the love of my life and strangely enough I'm the first black guy he's been with. In these eastern European countries, they are hardly ever any black men. Usually in western Europe there is a big black population though.
I might add more, but that's all I'm gonna add for right now. No disrespect to the OP, but all this was a waste of fucking time and usually gay interracial action that does happen is like I said, behind closed doors and isn't really advertised. It isn't important. I have my man and that's all that counts. I'm attracted to all races, just happen to be a black guy who is with a white guy. :P
Last edited by Taralen; February 19th, 2013 at 03:33 AM.
What's sad is my situation. I pursue guys of all races, as I find all races at least somewhat attractive, as any mature man does. Do I *lean* towards some races over others? Sure! I lean more toward other black guys, as well as Latinos.
But! I do not shut out white and Asian guys. Indeed, the racism starts when you start shutting out entire races without giving individuals from said race chances as PEOPLE.
Anyway. I get rejected by non-black guys because I'm black... but I also get rejected by other black guys because, and I quote many of said black guys: I "don't act black".
That crap's just as racist as the white, Latin, etc guys who don't talk to me because I'm black! Apparently things like my storm spotting/chasing hobby, my love of riding my moped and my scooter for transportation rather than driving, and my love of role-playing games (all three of these have been cited in the "arguments" of people claiming I don't "act black") somehow justify race-based rejection.
I was wondering when this thread was going to be closed so I figured attempting to post would be pointless, but alas.
Originally Posted by refujiunderground
you pretty much are saying things that some of us know because we experience it on a daily basis. i myself know this off the bat even when i was a closet case because i would notice how strange some of the gay guys who happened to be white would act whenever they would come around us when my homeboys and me would happen to pass by them on some stuck up shit. racism is real. if you aren't white in the lgbt community, you pretty much are going to be overlooked by damn near everybody. it's basically the way the whole culture is run. you pretty much have white guys on the magazines, models that are white, on the damn gay club flyers and etc. white guys are supposedly the "representatives" of the lgbt community and everybody else is just brushed to the side as if we don't exist. sure you might see an asian gay community or a black gay community but they're nowhere near as strong as the white gay community because everybody sticks together and you have some powerful heads that have influence on the world outthere. that white supremacist ideology shit is real, i don't care what anybody says. it runs the world and that's fucked up if you ask me.
then you have these folks that simply don't get it when you make threads like these and they happen to be white. they pretty much try to dismiss this shit as if they know how it feels to be in the next person shoes when they never ever will experience it. that's the honest truth. i'm just sick and tired of seeing folks basically being prejudiced and the whole nine themselves, racist, sexist and even homophobic towards themselves then trying to play the victim card because they're being discriminated for being gay. how can you feel sorry for an asshole?
Reading Sergey's last paragraph, knowing crap like that goes on makes me sick.
I highly doubt many white gay dudes would fully understand or appreciate the extra special racism gay nonwhites endure both online and in-person. Not until those same white people experience what life if truly like to be hated, marginalized and thought of less desirable or less sexually attractive solely based on something about themselves that they were born with and that cannot be changed by those same people who preach about the exact same thing when it comes to their sexuality. Maybe if they experience what it's like to be thought of as less attractive simply for being white not only from nonwhite people but from white people as well, they could understand, but the day that happens the world will probably be ending, so...
ugh, where's the Excedrin when you need it.
I have not been here on this site that long and just from first glance, all you need to do is look at the porn on this site and the ads on this site to see that the issue of racism in the gay community is true and very real. There is clear racism within the gay community, if there wasn't I would be looking at a hot Philippino dude banging the shit out of a Puerto Rican for example in the banner ads rather than the countless white dudes who in my opinion are not all that attractive. I have yet to see a black dude in the banner ads
But that's just me. I may not understand that pain because I have not experienced that unique type of racism but I have seen it and you can make a simple observation of it right here on this very site.
refer to it as passive racism?
Last edited by ElmosToe; February 19th, 2013 at 05:37 AM.
it is what it is. what can you really do. someone has to take charge, but the problem is within the community. its like its divided. ive experienced it in some parts of ny. but i dont let it get to me. i know someones out there, white, black, spanish, asian, middle eastern. people want what they want, and they get dissapointed either when they dont get it or the relationship or sex or whatever dosent live up to expectations. i think everyone cool to b honest. to really have a preference. i just want new friends. but i think we all face some type of hate it life. its like competition. someones gonna win, someones going to lose. maybe in relationship we can all win once we find someone. but some people have their eye on that certain someone who they cant get their mind off.
uhuh.. ok.. wassap.. shutup.
It has generally been much more my experience that people from outside the social sciences presume it's fluff or nonsense because they know very little about the social sciences or they pick out a few small things they do know and point out how silly they look in a complete vaccuum, and not because the social sciences in any general sense are nonsense or just make crap up. I do seriously think some days that people think the social sciences are about sitting in a classroom with people just making up opinions and justifying it with 'cause men suck' or 'cause white men suck' or whatever else. Frankly, it's everyone who dismissese the social sciences as a joke who are typically the ones just making up whatever they like to think based on whatever biases they already hold rather than the other way around.
It's your enviornment. Walk into a campus, wall street, different country (You get my point) and the amount of attractive white guys looking for, well, anything, goes up.
Also, about the Whites looking for black guys it all comes down to those who have found what they want, don't feel the need to broadcast it. However, those who are still looking have time to complain. Not knocking it, I do the same thing with certain topics. It's what we all do to try and start a discussion. However it doesn't change the fact that the loudest voices are usually the ones who are not content. The ones who are, feel no need to speak out.
Last edited by DigitalFudge; February 19th, 2013 at 11:10 AM.
Yup. And those parts I absolutely agree with. I tend to have different opinions in the nitty gritty details and some overly zealous conclusions, but I tend to at least aree with the premise. I didn't mean to belittle the whole entire branch of sociology, I just wanted to point out some of the crap that comes out of it. Personally, I feel that sometimes these conlcusions isolate even futher those who they are trying to protect.
You have no idea how many times I was at the blunt end of blame and felt nothing but agression towards me in my general education courses. My friend wrote a paper on reverse discrimination and the professor didn't like it, haha. There are many topics that are unable to be spoken about, which I think is utterly silly.
For me, I tend to at least admit that what I think is an opinion, much the same as I wish everyone else would do. The truth is, everything in social sciences, and even to a lesser degree in hard sciences, comes down to human perception. People let their opinions pass as hardcore facts too often, and it's sort of arrogant.
Regardless, you still see me talking (and speaking up) about this mess because I feel for the guys that are non-racial specific guys of color that have to deal with this tyrannical or fetish-oriented bull while seeking a significant other.
Honestly, it's a bizarro dating world out there most non-white gay/bisexual guys...
and homophobia is VERY real within the black community. VERY real. And no, I'm not white. Half middle eastern, half latino...and yet, I know for every gay racism story you all share, every gay person can personally describe many, many personal encounters with black homophobia. When we gays (of all colors) mention black homophobia..we're instantly told that it's RACSIT, and ignorant to highly black homophobia when there's homophobia in every bracket of society (even though many times we know, and even black people admit, the subject of being gay is more taboo and homophobia is more rampant in parts of african american culture)
So it's interesting to me that the resident homophobe on THIS site is a black women (Medusa) who makes it a point to undermine gay issues and homophobia while constantly subjecting us to playing the race card....and interesting to me how in most state ballot initiatives dealing with gay rights, of all ethnic groups (caucasian, asian and latino) black folks are LEAST supportive of extending equality to us (even in Maryland only 45% of black voters voted for gay marriage, compared to significantly higher percentages in the latino, white, and asian communities) and ever been on a black oriented blog and read the commentary regarding ANYTHING to do with gay people?.....try it sometime.....the words expressed by the (Self identified) black posters about gay people is STARTLING. Something you'd expect from the westboro church that operate in Kansas.
So while we're having this transparent conversation about honesty, and prejudice, and discrimination between minority groups...please, BY ALL MEANS, let's spread the love and highlight the prominent homophobia that most certainly exists in the black community and that many of us gay people could sit here and specifically cite personal encounters we've had with it.
It's also interesting to note that straight people have been institutionalizing racism, actively campaigning for it, and endorsing it for ages. A majority of racism that's been mandated throughout history has been by straight people. Yet, the african American community (ESPECIALLY LGBT black people) never make chants about "the clear racism in the straight community"...instead, it's consistently gay people called out for racism as if we invented it. If we say "hey! racism exists in all communities, including if not especially more so in heterosexual" we're told we're ignoring the issue and not addressing it. Then conversely, if we say "there's also deep rooted homophobia within the black community, in music, hip hop culture, street culture and black churches"...we're told by same said black LGBT who want to focus on gay racism that we're not allowed to focus on black homophobia. That highlighting black homophobia is racist. Interesting double standard. And it boils down to the "blame the gay" mentality that is widespread in the black community. From the many experiences I've had with many black people I've known throughout the years (some of whom who vocally oppose this way of thinking but acknowledge it exists) there's an inherent drive to blame gay people for everything. Molestations? "batty men came and raped our boys" ...gentrification? "gays moving in our parts of the city!"....and any time gay rights gets any advancements some black people feel it's at their cost. Visit any black oriented blog and you'll read many a comments that say "ridiculous this was passed for the gays. what about our struggling black brothers and sisters?" as if there aren't black LGBT who benefit from LGBT equality, or as if one demographic being more free and equal takes away from another. These things exist as well. So if we're going to chip away from the politically correct...let's get real and address prejudice in all it's forms, by all it's demographics. Not just "blame the gay" because that's what you've been told to do most of your existence.
i feel as if you're singling out black people when it comes to homophobia when it's present in everywhere within every community. i think that you focusing on ONE particular group isn't the way to go. you have to look @ the problem from a whole because i'm sure things will eventually change the more society changes it's view towards homosexuality.
the only significant thing that i note with some black people when it comes to homophobia that differs between everyone else is that they think that homosexuality is mostly associated with white people. they don't think that it's "natural" for a black person to be gay. they'll go as far as to say that there were no gay black people back then or precolonial africa didn't have any gay people within that society and that homosexuality was only in white societies like roman or the vikings. they think that any black person that is gay had to be molested in order to come out that way. that's about it.
Last edited by refujiunderground; February 20th, 2013 at 12:20 PM.
one thing about the closet/you don't have to hurry/it will be bad tomorrow/so brother, don't you worry
This is my two cents worth, but based on my observations, black LGBT feel like since they've experienced some shunning via the gay community, that black homophobia isn't directed at them, and in fact warranted, because hey- if it's not homophobia toward them, then a little bit of homophobia is gratifying. That it serves a purpose, and really gets back at those white gays...not realizing that societal homophobia within their own racial community adversely effects black LGBT first. And in real, hardcore, tangible ways too. Three incidents this month alone (in in d.c, one in philly, and one in subway of NYC) where black gay men were targeted by ethnic minorities, all for being gay. Many black LGBT don't have the luxury of just picking up and moving to an expensive "gay friendly" region, so I would imagine if there was work to do within the black community of spreading acceptance, tolerance and a message of who we are as an LGBT....black LGBT would eagerly be the ones to want to take the bull by the horn and achieve that. Somehow, some of you have disconnected yourself from homophobia and adopt an 'out of sight, out of mind' thinking. It's easier to acknowledge and address gay racism (and all forms of prejudice need addressing, I agree) rather than simultaneously also tackle black homophobia at the same time. Why is that? Why is having this conversation a taboo for younger LGBT of color? And if racial minorities think ignorantly that being gay equates to a white man's disease, then what are you doing to change their perception? I assure you. Sitting there and nodding with them while sharing all those evil stories about all them evil gays is doing absolutely zero to bridge the gap between the two communities.
While we all owe a role in fostering change for one another, only you have the impact to create effective change in the racial community that identifies with you. And reaffirming their negative notions of what being gay is, all while distancing yourself from being gay, AND justifying/overlooking their blatant homophobia serves no one. Not them, not you, not society.
Let what I wrote really soak in, and don't assume it's coming from a bad place, before responding with a heated rebuttal to me.
(and no, not a privileged white gay here. Actually a triple minority here. Lebanse, Puerto Rican, gay, and raised muslim. But objective enough to see things logically and fairly.)
The reason why most black gay/bisexuals don't care about black homophobia has more to do with the lack of inclusiveness from the mainstream LGBT fold (passive negligence). Interestingly enough, many black LGBTs have formed communities of their own in places like Atlanta, Washginton DC, Chicago, Philadelphia, and even New York. Hence why you have black (gay) pride celebrations throughout the year. Trust me, all the black LGBTs I know tackle homophobia, but they are equally as tired of dealing with racial bias as well. I don't know how you are going to on this one sided demonstrative tangent based on your novel observation of blacks.
Homophobia amongst blacks are no more bigger of a problem than homophobia found amongst Hispanics or whites. It also sounds like you have a very limited view of blacks other than what you think you know...
Last edited by kayman23; February 20th, 2013 at 07:55 PM.
homophobia is a problem in the world period. why you're acting like it's way worse when it comes to black people being homophobic compared to everybody else makes no sense whatsoever. i hate it when people are homophobic PERIOD.
you are like some people in this thread confusing the issue of racism in the gay community with people's dating patterns. the general idea of this thread that people should walk away with is just because someone is part of a group which has been the victim of prejudice in society on all sorts of level doesn't mean that they themselves will be as ignorant, prejudiced or tolerant because they are a part of that group. just because someone is gay doesn't mean that they're not going to be prejudiced or ignorant. i think what's terrible is how some folks use the fact that they're black or they're a woman or that they're gay as an excuse to be ignorant or prejudiced themselves. you don't know how many times i've seen some black people say some racist shit about white people or some gay people say some foul shit about straight people then run behind the whole "i can't be prejudiced as i am black or i am gay". it's sad.
Last edited by refujiunderground; February 20th, 2013 at 08:56 PM.
one thing about the closet/you don't have to hurry/it will be bad tomorrow/so brother, don't you worry
You didn't mention LA. Probably because every gay relationship in LA and Hollywood is interracial. So I guess there isn't really a black gay culture here.Atlanta, Washginton DC, Chicago, Philadelphia, and even New York.
Break it down to the simplest form. If you find that you don't treat people as the individuals that they are you are probably part of the problem. Racism exists in all races and the answer is the same for everyone.
I hate sexual "preference" as a word itself. It implies we chose it. A gay man who CHOOSES at marry a woman might be oriented towards other males. But he PREFERS to seek female courtships. The word is flawed.
By the way. Check out racebending.com if u wanna know more about racism TODAY in mainstream media. It focuses mostly on how Hollywood likes to take Asian characters in stories but put out casting calls for ONLY white people. Like avatar the last air bender, etc. Worth a read!