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Thread: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

      
   
  1. #51
    JUB Addict umjreon88's Avatar
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Would you date me because I look and sound exotic, and where I come from, you think we still live in zinc houses and speak a foreign language (that can be made fun of). Or, for my personality?

    Maybe the mainstream media has us believe that the ideal beauty is a man with perfect aquiline nose, sparkly blue eyes, spotlessly shaved/trimmed face and a megawatt smile. Maybe that is why us ethnic minorities seem to fare much less than Caucasians?

    JayQueer, I don't think that South Indians fare any worst than East or South East Asians to be honest. I've had less luck getting hit on than my British Indian friend when we go out.
    "... You think the only people who are people
    Are the people who look and think like you ..." - Colours of the Wind by Vanessa Williams

  2. #52

    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by JayQueer View Post
    I could write a book on this topic, but sadly I doubt it would change anything for most gay men.

    Indians (South Asians) fare the worst in the gay community, even worse than Black gay men & other Asians...

    Some of the worst hypocrites are some white gay men who call themselves "liberal." They usually love to talk about how they voted for Obama (twice), they praise Black civil rights leaders like MLK & Rosa Parks, and these white gay men often come from small towns in the South & Midwest. They move to places like San Francisco & New York & Chicago to be more "accepted" and in a place with more "diversity." They're always politically correct, and are quick to call other people "racist".

    Yet, if you notice who almost all their friends are, who they chat with online & at the gay clubs, who they hook up & date, and who they take to brunch on Sunday morning..........they're all white gay men!!! Where is this so-called "diversity" they love?

    Interracial dating is still rare for white gay men. Gay men of color are much more willing to date outside their race, and often do.
    Do East Indians enjoy themselves more when they are together? Do you feel less comfortable in a group of whites? I think most people enjoy being with people of the same background with whom they have more in common; language, slang, values, problems, humor, in short, culture. It is not racism or hostility to others, and should not be seen as such. It does not help that many minorities are hypersensitive or prickly. Whites often feel that they have to be super careful because almost any comment can be interpreted to have a racist aspect. The OP's tight wire between racism, objectivization and fetishization is an example. Many minority members take courses in black history and the like which teach them to see racism where whites may not see or intend it. But it and their response drive the wedge further.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JayQueer View Post
    I could write a book on this topic, but sadly I doubt it would change anything for most gay men.

    Indians (South Asians) fare the worst in the gay community, even worse than Black gay men & other Asians...

    Some of the worst hypocrites are some white gay men who call themselves "liberal." They usually love to talk about how they voted for Obama (twice), they praise Black civil rights leaders like MLK & Rosa Parks, and these white gay men often come from small towns in the South & Midwest. They move to places like San Francisco & New York & Chicago to be more "accepted" and in a place with more "diversity." They're always politically correct, and are quick to call other people "racist".

    Yet, if you notice who almost all their friends are, who they chat with online & at the gay clubs, who they hook up & date, and who they take to brunch on Sunday morning..........they're all white gay men!!! Where is this so-called "diversity" they love?

    Interracial dating is still rare for white gay men. Gay men of color are much more willing to date outside their race, and often do.
    Do East Indians enjoy themselves more when they are together? Do you feel less comfortable in a group of whites? I think most people enjoy being with people of the same background with whom they have more in common; language, slang, values, problems, humor, in short, culture. It is not racism or hostility to others, and should not be seen as such. It does not help that many minorities are hypersensitive or prickly. Whites often feel that they have to be super careful because almost any comment can be interpreted to have a racist aspect. The OP's tight wire between racism, objectivization and fetishization is an example. Many minority members take courses in black history and the like which teach them to see racism where whites may not see or intend it. But it and their response drive the wedge further.

  3. #53
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Well said, Hard up1, but you should leave open the possibility that the preference for whites is NOT necessarily because they are here the dominant culture. People are attractive if people think they are attractive. It is subjective, but there are some characteristics which are widely thought to be attractive. Are blonde women with nice breasts considered more attractive in Japan or China or other countries where they are not the dominant culture? Are lighter skinned Indians in India considered more attractive? Perhaps it is in part that lighter are more rare. There may be cultures where young people are not considered more attractive, but in most of the world young is more attractive. Nicely formed breasts make a woman more attractive for most men. Broad shoulders and narrow waists on men are generally considered more attractive. Some of this may be hard wired as related to health, reproductive ability and ability to protect and provide.
    But, some characteristics are widely considered to be more sexually attractive, unrelated to social or economic factors, such as the "dominant culture".
    No. In areas of the world undominated by the "dominant western beauty standard", including parts of India and parts of Africa, lighter skinned people are not considered more attractive as any kind of universal human norm, and in fact, in parts of India the beauty standard is the reverse of the west: large-built, curvy women of dark skin are the beauty standard.

    There are little snippets of true statements without proper context throughout your post, but on the whole what you're saying is that a global or national culture embracing a particular beauty standard in its advertisements or imagery has absolutely no effect, and that everyone is simply selecting for the same universally more appealing traits. Nearly all of the traits that do have a function pertinent to successful childbirthing/evolutionary survival do not belong to any one particular race and in fact many of them (wide hips for example) are not part of the dominant western beauty standard.

  4. #54
    penayforay
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by Harke the Boeotarch View Post
    Let's all jump in front of a moving train because someone on the internet behaves like an arsehole...
    What's that saying?
    Once is a mistake, twice is a habit? The idea is the same. You're trying to disregard the issue because its "supposedly" in your mind an INDIVIDUAL being an arsehole when really its a societal issue that should be addressed

    Interesting experiment though. I would personally love to have a chance tor read that thesis.
    Last edited by penayforay; February 15th, 2013 at 10:49 AM.

  5. #55
    penayforay
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post
    We live in democracies where the government has to prioritise the needs and the 'pains' of its people.
    .
    Well in that case, I believe we should all forget about gay marriage and deal with police brutality and corruption and the unfair profiling of racial groups which in turn leads to unnecessary violence directed towards people of color.

    How's that sound?

  6. #56
    WTF????? refujiunderground's Avatar
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by JayQueer View Post
    I could write a book on this topic, but sadly I doubt it would change anything for most gay men.

    Indians (South Asians) fare the worst in the gay community, even worse than Black gay men & other Asians...

    Some of the worst hypocrites are some white gay men who call themselves "liberal." They usually love to talk about how they voted for Obama (twice), they praise Black civil rights leaders like MLK & Rosa Parks, and these white gay men often come from small towns in the South & Midwest. They move to places like San Francisco & New York & Chicago to be more "accepted" and in a place with more "diversity." They're always politically correct, and are quick to call other people "racist".

    Yet, if you notice who almost all their friends are, who they chat with online & at the gay clubs, who they hook up & date, and who they take to brunch on Sunday morning..........they're all white gay men!!! Where is this so-called "diversity" they love?

    Interracial dating is still rare for white gay men. Gay men of color are much more willing to date outside their race, and often do.
    not to put you on blast but i've seen you many times on here say that you wouldn't date someone that isn't white. if you yourself wouldn't date someone that isn't white, how could you call out other people that do the same thing? wouldn't you be basically talking about yourself?

    i don't get why nonwhites complain about white guys not dating them when they themselves don't date anybody who isn't white. when is the hypocrisy gonna stop? sometimes, i feel that some nonwhite guys are complaining about this issue because they want a white guy in their life but haven't been able to get one. i mean damn, is it really that serious? they want to rant about why other people make color matter but color matters to them too as well. they're ready to call other people out on it but they themselves can't admit that they're the same too.

    when i talk about racism in the lgbt community, i'm not just talking about in the dating department. i'm talking about everything since it's widespread.
    Last edited by refujiunderground; February 15th, 2013 at 11:13 AM.
    one thing about the closet/you don't have to hurry/it will be bad tomorrow/so brother, don't you worry

  7. #57
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by refujiunderground View Post
    not to put you on blast but i've seen you many times on here say that you wouldn't date someone that isn't white. if you yourself wouldn't date someone that isn't white, how could you call out other people that do the same thing? wouldn't you be basically talking about yourself?

    i don't get why nonwhites complain about white guys not dating them when they themselves don't date anybody who isn't white. when is the hypocrisy gonna stop? sometimes, i feel that some nonwhite guys are complaining about this issue because they want a white guy in their life but haven't been able to get one. i mean damn, is it really that serious? they want to rant about why other people make color matter but color matters to them too as well. they're ready to call other people out on it but they themselves can't admit that they're the same too.
    Didn't you read his post? It's only when liberals who voted for Obama do it that it's a problem.

  8. #58
    WTF????? refujiunderground's Avatar
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    to add on, the lgbt publications and media seem to isolate nonwhites and focus on the white lgbt population leaving everybody out. one of the biggest misconceptions that other people have about the lgbt community is that it's mostly or entirely white and honestly, i can't blame them because that's the way it's represented. it seems like the nonwhite lgbt population is underrepresented. i also notice that underrepresented groups in the lgbt community end up self segregating because they feel that they're left out of the main group. however, this itself ends up being a problem because nonwhite lgbt communities are NOWHERE near as strong or sticks together like how the white lgbt community is. there really is no means of support within their own communities so they turn to the bigger group which has the resources BUT @ the same time, the bigger group cannot entirely understand how it is for that person who isn't white.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Didn't you read his post? It's only when liberals who voted for Obama do it that it's a problem.
    hell no. he is way too predictable.
    Last edited by refujiunderground; February 15th, 2013 at 11:26 AM.
    one thing about the closet/you don't have to hurry/it will be bad tomorrow/so brother, don't you worry

  9. #59
    penayforay
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard-up1 View Post
    Although the premise is possibly a good first stage for exploring the effects of race on internet sexual interactions, it is hard to get past the "conclusions" zinged out in the OP. Whereas observations would normally be noted and the discussion of potential implications welcomed in a sociology study, instead there were conclusions imputed and even imprecations added. In short, the scientific nature of a social behavioral study was impugned because it suggested a bias on the part of the researcher, which certainly is known to have an effect on research. That also has predictable consequences in the thread, as it sets up an environment in which the majority will be put in a defensive light if posting, or expected to be PC in the responses.
    I may or may not respond to the rest of this post depending on how much homework I have this weekend but wow
    Kudos to you on that vocabulary. Kind of an awkward use of "imputed" but okay. Someone's trying really, really hard.

    What specific "imprecations" exactly are you referring to and how do they suggest a "bias" on the part of the OP? All in all, your argument in this paragraph is very vague. I would prefer more specific examples of "conclusions imputed" to needlessly flowery language tbh.
    Last edited by penayforay; February 15th, 2013 at 11:29 AM.

  10. #60
    JUB Addict umjreon88's Avatar
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by refujiunderground View Post
    not to put you on blast but i've seen you many times on here say that you wouldn't date someone that isn't white. if you yourself wouldn't date someone that isn't white, how could you call out other people that do the same thing? wouldn't you be basically talking about yourself?

    i don't get why nonwhites complain about white guys not dating them when they themselves don't date anybody who isn't white. when is the hypocrisy gonna stop? sometimes, i feel that some nonwhite guys are complaining about this issue because they want a white guy in their life but haven't been able to get one. i mean damn, is it really that serious? they want to rant about why other people make color matter but color matters to them too as well. they're ready to call other people out on it but they themselves can't admit that they're the same too.

    when i talk about racism in the lgbt community, i'm not just talking about in the dating department. i'm talking about everything since it's widespread.
    I agree with you about the second paragraph. However, I think it's common even among caucasians and not just in terms of race but also age, phases of life, etc.

    It is an issue that is constant in the LGBT community and we could only do so much to change people's behaviour. Until we learn to accept that we do have a part that seems to exclude people of other races in our social life, the community would always be like this. We need integration, not separation.

    It's funny that people complain about not being able to get a caucasian lover/boyfriend/soulmate. Is it really that important? Then again, I do sometimes yearn to have a partner who is African/Caribbean -American.

    Haha. However, I love every colour to the point that I'm colour-blind to things. I accept people for who they are and my friendship circle is a vast mix of people from all over the world!
    "... You think the only people who are people
    Are the people who look and think like you ..." - Colours of the Wind by Vanessa Williams

  11. #61
    penayforay
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    "It's funny that people complain about not being able to get a caucasian lover/boyfriend/soulmate. Is it really that important? "

    its all about the bigger picture imo

  12. #62

    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Well, xbuzzerx, "absolutely no effect" are your words not mine. I would agree that cultural success has an effect, and class has beeni important. In many cultures people, especially women of a wealthier class will get less sun and for that reason be lighter, making it a marker of class and beauty. But, I don't think it is valid to entirely disregard the wide spread preference of lighter skin, even if we do not see a evolutionary function. Light color could, for instance be associated with cleanliness and facilitation of vitamin D formation on a subconscious level. If the preference for lightness were a function of dominant culture, you would expect that smaller hips and other western beauty standards would also prevail.. Do they all? I don't know.
    Last edited by Benvolio; February 15th, 2013 at 12:34 PM.

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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Well, xbuzzerx, "absolutely no effect" are your words not mine. I would agree that cultural success has an effect, and class has beeni important. In many cultures people, especially women of a wealthier class will get less sun and for that reason be lighter, making it a marker of class and beauty. But, I don't think it is valid to entirely disregard the wide spread preference of lighter skin, even if we do not see a evolutionary function. Light color could, for instance be associated with cleanliness and facilitation of vitamin D formation on a subconscious level. If the preference for lightness were a function of dominant culture, you would expect that smaller hips and other western beauty standards would also prevail.. Do they all? I don't know.
    Even presuming that the fact that manual labor outdoors has resulted in darker tans and people of elevated social class had lighter tans due to being indoors has created some kind of "global" preference for lighter skin, that would still be socially and culturally created. Not natural. It would in no way diminish that the social and cultural tools used to reinforce a notion of beauty are real, it would be an example of it.

  14. #64
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Well said, Hard up1, but you should leave open the possibility that the preference for whites is NOT necessarily because they are here the dominant culture. People are attractive if people think they are attractive. It is subjective, but there are some characteristics which are widely thought to be attractive. Are blonde women with nice breasts considered more attractive in Japan or China or other countries where they are not the dominant culture? Are lighter skinned Indians in India considered more attractive? Perhaps it is in part that lighter are more rare. There may be cultures where young people are not considered more attractive, but in most of the world young is more attractive. Nicely formed breasts make a woman more attractive for most men. Broad shoulders and narrow waists on men are generally considered more attractive. Some of this may be hard wired as related to health, reproductive ability and ability to protect and provide.
    But, some characteristics are widely considered to be more sexually attractive, unrelated to social or economic factors, such as the "dominant culture".
    Please spare us your thinly veiled "whites are just, like, better" innuendos. They're out of place ANYWHERE, but especially here.

    Quote Originally Posted by JayQueer View Post
    I could write a book on this topic, but sadly I doubt it would change anything for most gay men.

    Indians (South Asians) fare the worst in the gay community, even worse than Black gay men & other Asians...

    Some of the worst hypocrites are some white gay men who call themselves "liberal." They usually love to talk about how they voted for Obama (twice), they praise Black civil rights leaders like MLK & Rosa Parks, and these white gay men often come from small towns in the South & Midwest. They move to places like San Francisco & New York & Chicago to be more "accepted" and in a place with more "diversity." They're always politically correct, and are quick to call other people "racist".

    Yet, if you notice who almost all their friends are, who they chat with online & at the gay clubs, who they hook up & date, and who they take to brunch on Sunday morning..........they're all white gay men!!! Where is this so-called "diversity" they love?

    Interracial dating is still rare for white gay men. Gay men of color are much more willing to date outside their race, and often do.
    Well, JQ, regardless of race, whiners and "victims" are ALWAYS unattractive. Being brown is pretty much the least of your problems, and frankly, your rant would have had much more credibility, hadn't you somehow managed to bash "them evil Obama-voting liberals" again...


    ---------------------------

    As for the OP, as was already pointed out, the sites selected simply aren't a good representation of the gay community. Of those, Grindr is the only one with ANY relevant personality diversity, and even there a good 70% are just assholes looking for a quick fuck.

    Frankly, this type of research would benefit a LOT more from dating sites like Ok Cupid, where personality is the key factor for communication. Not that I doubt for a second that racism exists, it's just that going on a trashfest place like Manhunt and then come up with the brilliant conclusion that people there are trashy, seems a little... predetermined.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  15. #65

    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    At the risk of stating the obvious, those who want to be more accepted by white gays should consciously attempt to conform. Most black men and many East Indians tend to wear mustaches, some beards, long hair, while I think most white gays prefer the clean cut and clean look. Don't scream at me, this is intended to be constructive.

  16. #66
    WTF????? refujiunderground's Avatar
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Well, xbuzzerx, "absolutely no effect" are your words not mine. I would agree that cultural success has an effect, and class has beeni important. In many cultures people, especially women of a wealthier class will get less sun and for that reason be lighter, making it a marker of class and beauty. But, I don't think it is valid to entirely disregard the wide spread preference of lighter skin, even if we do not see a evolutionary function. Light color could, for instance be associated with cleanliness and facilitation of vitamin D formation on a subconscious level. If the preference for lightness were a function of dominant culture, you would expect that smaller hips and other western beauty standards would also prevail.. Do they all? I don't know.


    are you motherfucking serious?
    Last edited by refujiunderground; February 15th, 2013 at 12:47 PM.
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  17. #67
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    At the risk of stating the obvious, those who want to be more accepted by white gays should consciously attempt to conform. Most black men and many East Indians tend to wear mustaches, some beards, long hair, while I think most white gays prefer the clean cut and clean look. Don't scream at me, this is intended to be constructive.
    you can take this statement as well as your other one you stated and shove them both up your ass. go take this to stormfront.com or whichever place tolerates racist shit like this.
    Last edited by refujiunderground; February 15th, 2013 at 12:45 PM.
    one thing about the closet/you don't have to hurry/it will be bad tomorrow/so brother, don't you worry

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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    At the risk of stating the obvious, those who want to be more accepted by white gays should consciously attempt to conform. Most black men and many East Indians tend to wear mustaches, some beards, long hair, while I think most white gays prefer the clean cut and clean look. Don't scream at me, this is intended to be constructive.
    Quote Originally Posted by refujiunderground View Post


    are you motherfucking serious?
    LMAO! Did I really just read that top quote? Ben, seriously, did you just imply blacks all carry Rastafarian hairdos and Indian guys all look like devout Sikhs or something, and they should stop if they want white dates?
    Last edited by xbuzzerx; February 15th, 2013 at 12:50 PM.

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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by FanofFiction View Post
    It is always shocking to me when a discriminated group...long piece of text in the first post goes here... a fun experience and something worth sharing.
    Nothing tastes better than black meat. It is simply delicious! Why would anyone deny him/herself this tasty treat?

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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    LMAO! Did I really just read that top quote? Ben, seriously, did you just imply blacks all carry Rastafarian hairdos and Indian guys all look like devout Sikhs or something, and they should stop if they want white dates?
    i'm looking through some of his posts and that benvolio dude is a racist. probably a part of the kkk or neo nazis or some white supremacist extremist group. he sounds like it.
    Last edited by refujiunderground; February 15th, 2013 at 12:53 PM.
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    many people here: "hook-up sites dont represent the entire gay community."

    the OP states that racism is rampant in hook-up sites. to my thinking, there are two possible explanaitions:

    1) people using hook-up sites tend to be more racist than people that dont.
    2) racism is a problem amongst gay people in general, and therefore also a problem on gay hook-up sites.

    the second explanation makes much more sense to me. unless somebody has a really good reason why the first explanaiton is more likely. why would people using hook-up sites be more racist than people who dont? that correlation is counter-intuitive to me. hook-up sites may attract more people who are looking for one-night stands, nsa sex, are promiscuous... but why would it attract racists? not seeing the connection. if anything, that line of thinking seems rather sex-negative to me. "someone who likes having casual sex is generally trashy, therefore more likely to be racist." thats not something i would agree with.

  22. #72

    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by hylas View Post
    many people here: "hook-up sites dont represent the entire gay community."

    the OP states that racism is rampant in hook-up sites. to my thinking, there are two possible explanaitions:

    1) people using hook-up sites tend to be more racist than people that dont.

    2) racism is a problem amongst gay people in general, and therefore also a problem on gay hook-up sites.

    the second explanation makes much more sense to me. unless somebody has a really good reason why the first explanaiton is more likely. why would people using hook-up sites be more racist than people who dont? that correlation is counter-intuitive to me. hook-up sites may attract more people who are looking for one-night stands, nsa sex, are promiscuous... but why would it attract racists? not seeing the connection. if anything, that line of thinking seems rather sex-negative to me. "someone who likes having casual sex is generally trashy, therefore more likely to be racist." thats not something i would agree with.
    My guess would be the anonymity. It's a lot easier for them to say it in text to a computer screen in the privacy of their own bedrooms, then it would be to say it face to face in public.
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by hylas View Post
    many people here: "hook-up sites dont represent the entire gay community."

    the OP states that racism is rampant in hook-up sites. to my thinking, there are two possible explanaitions:

    1) people using hook-up sites tend to be more racist than people that dont.
    2) racism is a problem amongst gay people in general, and therefore also a problem on gay hook-up sites.

    the second explanation makes much more sense to me. unless somebody has a really good reason why the first explanaiton is more likely. why would people using hook-up sites be more racist than people who dont? that correlation is counter-intuitive to me. hook-up sites may attract more people who are looking for one-night stands, nsa sex, are promiscuous... but why would it attract racists? not seeing the connection. if anything, that line of thinking seems rather sex-negative to me. "someone who likes having casual sex is generally trashy, therefore more likely to be racist." thats not something i would agree with.
    Racism is a problem EVERYWHERE, but it is ALWAYS represented more in the lower classes - poorly educated, isolated and ignorant people are 100% more racist than the rest of any country's population. Hook-up sites do tend to attract mostly that part of society, and especially GAY hook-up sites tend to attract a huge number of self-hating closet-cases. Those already hate themselves and the world, what's one more thing to be bigoted against?
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  24. #74

    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    ^ Roly, Do you think gay hook-up sites attract more ignorant, low class people than the other hook-up sites?

  25. #75
    nerd of prey hylas's Avatar
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    rolyo: the part about less educated people being attracted to hook-up sites i only believe if i see some data, but the part about self-hating closet-cases is actually a good point.

    borg: definitely. but that doesnt mean users of hook-up sites tend to be more racist. it just means they show their racism online more openly than IRL.

  26. #76
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by borg69unimatrix View Post
    My guess would be the anonymity. It's a lot easier for them to say it in text to a computer screen in the privacy of their own bedrooms, then it would be to say it face to face in public.
    Well if you're saying you just see it more because people have the freedom to say it, isn't that saying the same thing as #2, there's a lot of prejudice/racism in the community in general? Even if it isn't often spoken?

  27. #77
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by hylas View Post
    rolyo: the part about less educated people being attracted to hook-up sites i only believe if i see some data, but the part about self-hating closet-cases is actually a good point.

    borg: definitely. but that doesnt mean users of hook-up sites tend to be more racist. it just means they show their racism online more openly than IRL.
    I haven't looked for that sort of data, maybe I will when I have more time later today. But my anecdotal experience in those is that even when I was looking for a hook up, the personalities of those people just put me off too much. I can't treat other people as a living fleshlight, and so I found nothing there.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  28. #78

    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    I guess my next question would be, how are you defining "Racist" ?? Truly by the color of their skin alone (genetics), or by cultural/ethnic differences/practices that might make someone unfamiliar with it uncomfortable to be around?
    http://www.justusboys.com/forum/signaturepics/sigpic216959_1.gif

  29. #79

    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by borg69unimatrix View Post
    ... how are you defining "Racist" ?? ....
    He's using it exactly the same way our grandparents used the word 'Sinner'.

    The Politically Correct Zealots are exactly the same as the old religions.

  30. #80
    The old familiar sting blackbeltninja's Avatar
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    So, in summary: generally failing to be turned on by certain sectors of the population, especially for a hook-up, is racist. Agreed?

    By extrapolation, then, I'm clearly racist. And in-shapeist, age-range-ist, stupidist, religionist, wilfully-and-persistently-ignorantist, effeminist, daddyist, bear-ist, marriedist, cheaterist, dishonestist, overly-muscularist, smokerist, scene-ist and non-readerist.

    This is not an apology.

    -d-
    Last edited by blackbeltninja; February 15th, 2013 at 01:51 PM.
    Members: [insert appropriate/relevant wise saying or deep thought here]
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  31. #81
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by borg69unimatrix View Post
    I guess my next question would be, how are you defining "Racist" ?? Truly by the color of their skin alone (genetics), or by cultural/ethnic differences/practices that might make someone unfamiliar with it uncomfortable to be around?
    I already said in my opening post that I don't think this experiment is a proper yardstick for "racism." I do however think there's a big difference between not showing interest and responding with a racial slur and it probably is telling you something about the individual's strength of prejudice.

    Racism has two wildly different meanings, one is the one being used in this thread: ANY sort of distinction being made, particularly any negative one, amongst different groups. I'd actually say that's the most superficial end of it and the one upon which people make ridiculous claims like "white people suffer racism too; it goes every direction!" True/academic racism is a belief in racial superiority or hierarchy to the extent that one feels it justifies widespread or institutionalized inequality in society, by de facto or de jure. "Well we shouldn't do anything about x group having less access to reasonable homeloans or education, it's not like they'll do anything with it anyway.."

  32. #82

    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    ^ I wish you specify which of the "two wildly different meanings" you're using each time you accuse others of 'thought crimes'.

  33. #83
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post
    ^ I wish you specify which of the "two wildly different meanings" you're using each time you accuse others of 'thought crimes'.
    Quote me making an accusation dear. Btw, you personally are covered by both types. Full racist mode.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiMHTK15Pik
    Last edited by xbuzzerx; February 15th, 2013 at 02:12 PM.

  34. #84
    AshyPhoenix
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Okay, I know I'm a bit late to the party, but here are a few tips:

    1. Nobody's going to read that massive wall of text in its entirety.

    2. Even if someone did read the entire thing, you raised far too many points for anyone to reply to.

    3. Everything that can conceivably be said about race has already been posted on here before.

    4. These threads always turn into shit-slinging festivals, rendering them pointless (see: #3 above).

  35. #85
    IllumiNaughty Overlord. bankside's Avatar
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    I think people who have experienced discrimination based on ethnicity should be angry about it, but then I think we all should be angry about it whether we are targeted or not.

    How that anger is directed however is absolutely critical. If that anger is misdirected, it can be absolutely counterproductive. Complaining that "white people are racist" is not true for all white people. If a white person who considers other ethnicities to be equal is lumped in with racists by default, it pushes the white person toward disengagement rather than active anti-racism.

    I have a theory that in a context of continuing racism, people subject to it will stick together and form closer communities, based on ethnicity, than is generally the norm in the larger society. It may cause people who identify strongly with an ethnic community to assume that others do as well. However my experience is that the majority does not have a strong sense of ethnic community. It's not how people identify or perceive themselves. In their minds, "people are people." Failure to recognise this results in lost opportunities for engagement, and it explains a lot of the miscommunication even in this thread.

    I've even seen that fact acknowledged before by some anti-racists from minority ethnicities, but then trivialised and dismissed with "pffff. No big deal being wrongly accused of racism compared to actual racism. That's just white people's problems." That kind of response just leads to a white person who doesn't care about the problems caused by racism. It's a message to be avoided by anyone serious about anti racism.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte.

  36. #86

    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by blackbeltninja View Post
    So, in summary: generally failing to be turned on by certain sectors of the population, especially for a hook-up, is racist. Agreed?

    By extrapolation, then, I'm clearly racist. And in-shapeist, age-range-ist, stupidist, religionist, wilfully-and-persistently-ignorantist, effeminist, daddyist, bear-ist, marriedist, cheaterist, dishonestist, overly-muscularist, smokerist, scene-ist and non-readerist.

    This is not an apology.

    -d-
    I dunno... it's always been strange to me when guys categorically say they aren't attracted to an entire ethnic group. I mean, there are certain para-ethnic parameters (personality, intelligence, height, weight, muscularity, hairiness, political views, etc.) that you can be drawn to. These parameters extend across ethnic lines. I don't understand how people can overlook such variability within groups. Not to be trite, but I've been attracted to men of all different ethnic backgrounds and I've always thought there were attractive and unattractive men within all ethnic groups.

    To some extent, biology may play a role, but it's hard for me to understand the people who will just outright ostracize blacks, Asians, Hispanics, etc. It makes me wonder to what extent the racial preferences are socially-conditioned; that is, to what extent (unconscious) internalized racism filters its way into people's sexuality. The fact that interracial relationships are growing more common with time and among younger generations suggests whatever biological predispositions are at work are fairly limited.
    Last edited by BrimstoneAndTreacle; February 15th, 2013 at 03:25 PM.

  37. #87
    soooooo collllldddd rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by DigitalFudge View Post
    I wonder what Medusa thinks about this?



    But since it's the struggle that some gheys face involving racism I'm sure it doesn't matter
    The opposite of whatever we think.

  38. #88
    soooooo collllldddd rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by JayQueer View Post
    I could write a book on this topic, but sadly I doubt it would change anything for most gay men.

    Indians (South Asians) fare the worst in the gay community, even worse than Black gay men & other Asians...

    Some of the worst hypocrites are some white gay men who call themselves "liberal." They usually love to talk about how they voted for Obama (twice), they praise Black civil rights leaders like MLK & Rosa Parks, and these white gay men often come from small towns in the South & Midwest. They move to places like San Francisco & New York & Chicago to be more "accepted" and in a place with more "diversity." They're always politically correct, and are quick to call other people "racist".

    Yet, if you notice who almost all their friends are, who they chat with online & at the gay clubs, who they hook up & date, and who they take to brunch on Sunday morning..........they're all white gay men!!! Where is this so-called "diversity" they love?

    Interracial dating is still rare for white gay men. Gay men of color are much more willing to date outside their race, and often do.

    This load of crap brought to you by some dude who only wants to date white guys.

    Puh

    Fucking


    Leeze.

    And I can tell you that I have burned down buildings with the sex I've had with Indian guys.

  39. #89
    gold3509
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Racism is still alive and well in america. alot of people like to pretend racism dont exist which is a shame. Many people do racist things and do not realize the things they are doing is racist. many school in the U.s. segregate into groups only want to socialize with people who look like them. you go to restuarants with your white friends the waiter assume the white person is paying and only talks to the white person at the table. (im not saying it happens at all eating places but it happens a lot). airports.... flight attendant only like to greet white passengers on the planes...( not every flight attendant is like this but alot are) department stores.... sales clerk alot of them think only whites can afford to buy expensive things. assumes everybody else looking for 2.99 sales....( there are poor whites) i can go on and on on about the things i see america..

    i do not have racist bone in my body but i am not blind to racism in america... i am lucky to have white friends who know alot of people do racist things a white buddy of mine told me. some guy at his job was telling him some pretty racist things about blacks as if he was racist like him. my white buddy told him off he was like "dude your talking to the wrong guy about that thats pretty racist man".

  40. #90
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Evelyone is a rittre bit lacist!
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  41. #91
    thatgirl
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by refujiunderground View Post


    are you motherfucking serious?
    LMFAO. I don't even know what to think about Benvolio's posts in here.


  42. #92
    penayforay
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Evelyone is a rittre bit lacist!
    lol what a messy faggot.
    "Does your butthole whistle? Like is your butthole so stretched and raggedy the air whistles when you move?"

    everybody is a little bit homophobic.
    Last edited by penayforay; February 15th, 2013 at 05:01 PM.

  43. #93
    thatgirl
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by umjreon88 View Post
    It's funny that people complain about not being able to get a caucasian lover/boyfriend/soulmate. Is it really that important? Then again, I do sometimes yearn to have a partner who is African/Caribbean -American.
    I think it's somewhat of an unhealthy fixation for some PoC and it gives me second-hand embarrassment. I still don't understand how some cannot bring themselves be attracted to their own damn race but expect people from other races to see beauty in them. These types are usually extra thirsty for white people and they feel like their world is about to end once they realize that many of the white people they come across have no interest in dating them.

    For others, I think it's because whites outnumber everyone else in the dating pool and it gets to be frustrating for some PoC if they are constantly being either rejected or fetishized by a good chunk of potential partners in their area. These PoC usually are open to dating other PoC. Although, even in this group, we have the ones who prefer to date someone from their ethnicity/race but when they 'date out' they will only go for whites whom they consider to be the 'next best thing' in whatever dating hierarchy they have set up for themselves.

  44. #94
    Dimples glasvegas's Avatar
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by pat grimshaw View Post
    There was another thread here when a JUBber was seething with his pain.

    He told me his pain was caused by his being a minority. And when I quizzed him he said he spent big money to live in another country where he knew he would be living as a minority.
    Hi Uncle Pat. So nice of you reference me in here. And I wasn't seething my pain, I was just reporting what I experienced.

  45. #95
    JUB Addict Harke the Boeotarch's Avatar
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by glasvegas View Post
    Hi Uncle Pat. So nice of you reference me in here. And I wasn't seething my pain, I was just reporting what I experienced.
    I think your fried shrimp just wasn't hot enough to add enough sizzle to the sushi and now you're blaming Australia.

    [edit] Yeah it was addressed to Pat, but as a stakeholder I feel obliged to butt in.
    Last edited by Harke the Boeotarch; February 15th, 2013 at 05:38 PM.

  46. #96
    WTF????? refujiunderground's Avatar
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by Harke the Boeotarch View Post
    I think your fried shrimp just wasn't hot enough to add enough sizzle to the sushi and now you're blaming Australia.
    one thing about the closet/you don't have to hurry/it will be bad tomorrow/so brother, don't you worry

  47. #97
    Dimples glasvegas's Avatar
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by Harke the Boeotarch View Post
    I think your fried shrimp just wasn't hot enough to add enough sizzle to the sushi and now you're blaming Australia.

    [edit] Yeah it was addressed to Pat, but as a stakeholder I feel obliged to butt in.
    I am not Japanese but thank you for trying.

  48. #98
    JUB Addict Harke the Boeotarch's Avatar
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    Quote Originally Posted by glasvegas View Post
    I am not Japanese but thank you for trying.
    The Isamu Nosushi phenomenon is not limited to the Nipponese.

  49. #99
    nerd of prey hylas's Avatar
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    i do have my own issues of internalized racism; i aknowledge it, i dont feel good about that part of myself, and i try very hard to change it (with moderate success.) i do not expect people to be attracted to all ethnicities equally. however, i do expect people to realize and aknowledge that these issues exists, to show some basic decency and consideration, to not dismiss and downplay it, to not be assholes about it. to listen and open their minds, instead of switching to defcon.

  50. #100
    Make 2014 Special MissAnne's Avatar
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    Re: My revised outlook on racism in the gay community

    This reasearch makes me miss school so much.

    Very interesting.
    " For all there is to feel, let it be felt"
    ― Emeli Sande

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