Do you believe corporal punishment (spanking) is an effective way to raise a child?

[JWaggy]

It may be effective in raising a child, but raising the child into what kind of person?

Hitting something that has neither the mental or physical capacities as you doesn't seem like it's effective in anything other than putting the victim in its place. It seems too easy. If you really wanted your child to learn from whatever it was that caused you to strike, why not sit them down and have a conversation about it? If you were going to do that anyway, why not forgo the violence altogether?

I'm paraphrasing here, but "Having a child does not make one a good parent anymore than having a piano makes one a pianist."

[sixthson]

I'm paraphrasing here, but "Having a child does not make one a good parent anymore than having a piano makes one a pianist."

And yet, oddly enough, both require discipline if you are going to be good at it.

[Rolyo85]

And yet, oddly enough, both require discipline if you are going to be good at it.

Self discipline. Hitting the piano does nothing but damage it.

[sixthson]

Self discipline. Hitting the piano does nothing but damage it.

And not many children willing sit down to practice scales without the insistence of the parent. Self discipline is taught by parents who discipline them. No hitting involved.

[Kahaih]

And yet, oddly enough, both require discipline if you are going to be good at it.

Oh, I can’t stand the sound of someone spanking a piano.

Or, did you mean to say self-discipline?

Doesn’t matter. I don’t get much out of that sound either.

[sixthson]

Oh, I can’t stand the sound of someone spanking a piano.

Or, did you mean to say self-discipline?

Doesn’t matter. I don’t get much out of that sound either.

See post 54.

[Kahaih]

See post 54.

Saw post #54.

Some people believe encouragement goes a long ways. Some people believe in hugs.

[Rolyo85]

Saw post #54.

Some people believe encouragement goes a long ways. Some people believe in hugs.

Positive reinforcement is slower to sink in than negative, but produce vastly superior results and encourage creative thinking and initiative. Negative mostly breed fear of punishment.

[jdcnow]

My mother was and is a verbally emotionally and occasionally physically abusive cunt. She has to strip away your self worth in order for her to feel superior to you. After living with that until I was 18 I can tell you it actually help me because I've never struck my own son. We've had heated discussions, but I'm careful not to attack his person because my Mother taught me how it feels. My son is an A student, I think there's adequate proof to my methods lol. He turned out pretty good. He graduates in May.

Congrats!

[sixthson]

Saw post #54.

Some people believe encouragement goes a long ways. Some people believe in hugs.

What a novel idea. I will have to give that a try. I never thought of hugging my child.

[borg69unimatrix]

I kind of see spankings as more of a learning tool then a punishment.

There are some pretty major things in life that can really harm a child. Touching a stove is one of them. Isn't it possible that a swat on the butt can teach a child the consequences of his/her actions without actually allowing the child to learn it for themselves? "If you touch that it's going to hurt" doesn't really mean much if you have no frame of reference to what hurt is.

When I was young and smart mouthed, a swat on the butt taught me that I can't always say what is on my mind, and that there ARE people out there bigger then I am who might take offense to what I think of them. It saved me from getting beat up later in life.

[xbuzzerx]

I know there's conflicted evidence as to whether or not it does or doesn't have any effect on how a child turns out.

That being said, I can't help but momentarily feel a passing twinge of regret that society wouldn't allow it openly anymore when I see a very young preteen screaming or cursing at their own parent in public.

[JWaggy]

I know there's conflicted evidence as to whether or not it does or doesn't have any effect on how a child turns out.

That being said, I can't help but momentarily feel a passing twinge of regret that society wouldn't allow it openly anymore when I see a very young preteen screaming or cursing at their own parent in public.

But what good does it do to hit the kid when in all likelihood it's the shitty parent who needs a knock-upside the head.

[xbuzzerx]

But what good does it do to hit the kid when in all likelihood it's the shitty parent who needs a knock-upside the head.

It would just please me. Who cares about the kid cursing!? They're a lost cause.

[Kahaih]

What a novel idea. I will have to give that a try. I never thought of hugging my child.

I’m sure that you do hug your kids.

I didn’t mention your name specifically as I didn’t want to make you feel obligated to back me up.

[Rolyo85]

I kind of see spankings as more of a learning tool then a punishment.

There are some pretty major things in life that can really harm a child. Touching a stove is one of them. Isn't it possible that a swat on the butt can teach a child the consequences of his/her actions without actually allowing the child to learn it for themselves? "If you touch that it's going to hurt" doesn't really mean much if you have no frame of reference to what hurt is.

When I was young and smart mouthed, a swat on the butt taught me that I can't always say what is on my mind, and that there ARE people out there bigger then I am who might take offense to what I think of them. It saved me from getting beat up later in life.

I have participated in the raising of a child (my kid sister, she is 10 years younger than me, so I was an impressionable teen in her formative years), and she has never been hit, yet turned out incredibly polite, sensitive and considerate person. To my mind, a swat on the butt doesn't teach you not to touch the stove. It teaches you that if your parents caught you doing something they don't like, you get hit. It's an incredibly harmful lesson to learn, and out of it springs only trying to put distance between you and the parental unit, as well as hide as much as possible from them. Once a parent raises a hand rather than reason with the kid, the parent has t urned into the kid's enemy anbd whatever the kid learns in life is DESPITE the parent.

[borg69unimatrix]

I have participated in the raising of a child (my kid sister, she is 10 years younger than me, so I was an impressionable teen in her formative years), and she has never been hit, yet turned out incredibly polite, sensitive and considerate person. To my mind, a swat on the butt doesn't teach you not to touch the stove. It teaches you that if your parents caught you doing something they don't like, you get hit. It's an incredibly harmful lesson to learn, and out of it springs only trying to put distance between you and the parental unit, as well as hide as much as possible from them. Once a parent raises a hand rather than reason with the kid, the parent has t urned into the kid's enemy anbd whatever the kid learns in life is DESPITE the parent.

I"m not saying EVERY kid needs it... but there are clearly many out there whom giving a stern talking to clearly isn't enough incentive for the kid to act civilized. You got lucky. And I don't 100% agree with you, as fear of a spanking kept me from doing a lot of things I might have attempted, where clearly just a verbal warning wasn't enough.

Like all aspects of life, it's not a black and white situation. Some need it, some don't. I was one of the little brats that did need it once in a while, just to be reminded who was in authority.

[Rolyo85]

I"m not saying EVERY kid needs it... but there are clearly many out there whom giving a stern talking to clearly isn't enough incentive for the kid to act civilized. You got lucky. And I don't 100% agree with you, as fear of a spanking kept me from doing a lot of things I might have attempted, where clearly just a verbal warning wasn't enough.

Like all aspects of life, it's not a black and white situation. Some need it, some don't. I was one of the little brats that did need it once in a while, just to be reminded who was in authority.

I'm sorry, I absolutely disagree that "some need it". I have some experience with teaching, and what I've learned is that it takes different words to get the same point across to different people. While kids are of course different, ultimately if the words aren't enough, then they were the wrong words, and it's the failing of the parent that led to hitting.

[Kahaih]

I have known many teachers, over the years, including some who work with small retarded children. Hitting of any kind is never tolerated and yet, these children can always be kept under control.

Anyway, there is one story/situation that always comes up when talking about behavior problems/problem children with almost any teacher.

There are always these children who are an absolute joy to be around until their parents show up. . .

[Benjoe]

Every generation says 'children didn't behave like that in my day'. Kids always have, and kids always will push boundaries and occasionally be difficult. People remember it wrong.

Personally as someone who's spent a lot of time working in education and doing a teaching degree I think kids are definitely a lot nicer to each other nowadays than they used to be (at least in the 5-11 age range i'm experienced in) bullying is a lot less acceptable and I think this has drawn parallels from the fact that physically hurting children does not happen in schools anymore and is frowned upon at home by any modern educators.

Violence is wrong, it might be quick simple and easy, and yes it does work in the short term but it leads to other problems. Hurting someone who does something you don't like is not a good message to send out. There are better ways to get through to children. Also what happens when parents start physically punishing children is they quite often become what the parent tells them they are, 'You're a naughty child, you're bad' etc etc, kids are very easily influenced and it's easy for them to fall into this mindset of believing they are inherently a bad person and therefore it becomes who they are and effects their self esteem. I see it happen all the time by parents who don't know better and it's quite frustrating. Positive reinforcement is definitely the way forward.

A lot of adults nowadays will say things like 'oh I can't do maths, i'm no good at that'. And therefore they won't even try. Perhaps some of you will be familiar with this type of thing, however it's a complete fallacy. These adults that quite often to this day feel they aren't any good at something actually can be very good at them, with a little practice, believe me i've dis-proven this to dozens of people over the years! But they convince themselves they can't do something... why? Simple, 'You're NO GOOD at this, you can't do XYZ' from educators, parent's whilst growing up. It's sticks in our minds and plants little destructive seeds that you probably aren't even consciously aware of. How children are treated growing up effects them for life, you don't need to hurt them, be smarter than that.

I'm just glad I live in Europe some of the things that still happen to this day in US Schools sickens me. This is a video clip from a school in the US called the Judge Rotenberg Centre and it uses extreme physical punishments classed as 'aversives' but declared as torture by the UN against children with autism and behavioural difficulties. And yes this is still going on to this day. Feel free to google it but be warned you probably won't sleep well tonight if you do.

[Kyanimal]

As I've said, I was spanked as a kid. And, it Worked!

However, I'd like to add that Kev's youngest sister got divorced, and came to live with us, "Temporarily", with her three young sons, who were going on 4, 5, and 6. "Temporarily" turned into 6 yr.

Those three became like our own sons. And, that time in their lives was a very formative period for them. As far as I know, while they were living with us, and were "ours", none of them were ever slapped, or spanked. As rowdy, clever, and devious, as each one was, in their own ways, none of them were ever the type that "deserved" being smacked, at least not by us.

I'm not sure "why", but they were very Respectful kids (as far as kids go). They LISTENED to what they were told. AND, they always behaved in Public! Unlike ME, they were GOOD Kids!

Of course, the is no "Blanket Rule" that applies to Everyone! I've run across too many Youngsters the not only Deserved, but NEEDED, a Righteous SMACK! I'm sure that You, too, are familiar with the types I'm talking about! Sometimes, it's the Only thing that will (Hopefully) work.

[ixthrock]

It's good to see a few people address the individuality of children.

I complimented a friend once on her child-rearing skills, because her child was so orderly, engaging, and sweet - my friend refused to take credit, saying "Emily is her own little person."

My niece is one of those that doesn't believe in hitting kids - and her daughter was a challenge. I've never seen a child that could throw tantrums like her; out in public, I could see the negative judgement in people's eyes about my niece's parenting skills when her daughter was acting out - but that was just who her daughter was; the kind of child she was. My niece was patient, firm, and never lost her temper - always providing a perfect example, to her daughter, of how to behave when dealing with trying persons.

I think it is disempowering to excuse personal maladjustment by blaming the long-gone, arguably misguided actions of one's parents. Yes, there are some poor, abusive parents - and they can inflict a lot of long-lasting damage. At some point, though, we must grow up in spite of them, and bear the responsibility ourselves for our own failings.

[blackbeltninja]

“These folks” = the victim in each scenario

Yes.

And don’t pretend you didn’t understand that, or you’ll just appear desperate and reckless.

Wow.

The unruly child needs as much sympathy and outrage as rape victims and people shot in schools.

Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket?


-d-

[star-warrior]

Children are kinda like wild animals, you can't reason with them if they dislike what you're saying. Bad behaviour is often due to attention seeking. You need to see past that and focus on why the child did what it did. Tantrums are to be managed. The trick is to distract the child with something better than just the tantrum. I think a slap to the bum or palm of the hand is to be reserved for something which requires immediate attention if the situation was dangerous in which the child willfully does after going against parental advice to the contrary. For example running off into a road etc, or playing with electrical sockets.

[dereperez]

There is a fine line between spanking and beating a child. Sometimes corporal punishment is a good way to teach a kid a lesson. I got spanked a few times as a kid but was never abused. I think all that helped me grow up to be who I am today.

[Kien]

I see a lot of responses saying that a child's bad behavior is the fault of the parents and that parents who use corporal punishment "fail as parents" which I just don't agree with. I'm actually a bit offended. They used corporal punishment on me and my siblings and they're not failures, at all. I love my parents and just because they spanked me as a child does not mean they have bad parenting skills.

Anyways, I think it's a bit unfair to completely blame the parents for misbehaved children and saying that parents who spank their children resort to it because they don't have control. But realize that peer groups are also a huge factor in shaping children. They learn behaviors from them at school and parents simply can't control what they see, hear, or do at school. And at the teenage years, when the only thing they want in the world is to fit in, their peers have a much stronger influence than their parents. It's not the fault of the parents. Sure they might have some fault, but just to say that corporal punishment is what "fail parents" do is lazy and does not consider other factors.

When the influence of peers is too strong and negative, sometimes it's necessary to use corporal punishment.

[blackbeltninja]

There is a fine line between spanking and beating a child. Sometimes corporal punishment is a good way to teach a kid a lesson. I got spanked a few times as a kid but was never abused. I think all that helped me grow up to be who I am today.

I think the key is that the line is actually NOT that fine. A beating and a quick spank are two VERY different things, and easily distinguishable.

I also think this is the bit which a lot of people miss, the distinction between the two.

-d-

[star-warrior]

Barring memory loss, most of us remember our childhood. It probably helps form part of our reasoning in how we think about parenting and chastisement.

Just as a matter of interest, how many who have responded against physical chastisement are not parents?

How many of you who have responded that physical chastisement is ok would consider it a burden to have kids?

[Rolyo85]

I gave my background. I have not been a parent yet, but I have actively participated in the parenting process of my little sister. So let's say I am half-experienced.

Kien, sorry if you feel offended. I have had this exact conversation with another Asian friend of mine, and she was also offended like you. I know Asian cultures - or some of them? I'm a bit uninformed in that - use corporal punishment, and it's not my place to say they are wrong. But I do strongly believe that corporal punishment is nothing but a shock-therapy response to a problem which reasoning can ALWAYS solve, if a bit slower. Children are not dogs. Even the most willful among them CAN be reasoned with. I've seen it done multiple times. Furthermore, a child always does stuff because of curiosity or because it wants something. Being able to determine the reason can give you a whole spectrum of responses to it, most of which are much better than the lesson that "if you misbehave, I will hurt you".

[sixthson]

Rolyo, please define what it means for a 15 year old to "actively parent" his kid sister.

[Rolyo85]

You do realize that by the time she was 5, I was 20, yes? Also, I mean, spending a lot of time taking care of her at home when my parents were working, taking her to school and all that stuff. Changing diapers and the like when she was a baby. Point being, I was part of the process both as an observer, and as actively contributing. I have answered awkward questions, and I've disciplined her. But I have never raised a hand against her, nor has any of my parents.

[borg69unimatrix]

I guess part of the disconnect for me is the wording. "corporal punishment (spanking)"

I don't equate a swat on the butt as being the same as water boarding/beating a child. Disciplining with a swat is NOT the same as taking out your anger on a child and beating it half to death. I see it more as the people who use a rolled up news paper on a dog. More shock value and noise then actual hurt.

To me, the OP's statement is equating discipline with abuse.

[sixthson]

You do realize that by the time she was 5, I was 20, yes? Also, I mean, spending a lot of time taking care of her at home when my parents were working, taking her to school and all that stuff. Changing diapers and the like when she was a baby. Point being, I was part of the process both as an observer, and as actively contributing. I have answered awkward questions, and I've disciplined her. But I have never raised a hand against her, nor has any of my parents.

Your story does not add up. Earlier you said your sister was 10 years younger than you. Now you say she is 15 years younger.

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

lot a 1st worlds awsum adult boys sumthangs everythang a eons storys neva add up

funny dat

this nothin do yellow brick road

thankyou

[Rolyo85]

Your story does not add up. Earlier you said your sister was 10 years younger than you. Now you say she is 15 years younger.

Lol no, I just suck at math and post on auto-pilot ^_^

Believe me, those are not THE AWESOME WORLD-SHATTERING CREDENTIALS I'd lie about on a gay forum. Yeah, obviously I was 15 when she was 5. That said, I did learn quite a bit about it, and I WAS 20 by the time she was 10

Irregardless!

I have hung around parents and teachers my entire life, and I've done a bit of both myself. That experience is what it is, little or a lot. But it tells me that if a child is old enough to understand what you tell him, it is your responsibility to find the words that work.

[Rolyo85]

And I'm not ok with the distinction between "slapping" and "beating". To spank someone's rump is nothing but a meaningless gesture. It doesn't hurt, it means nothing, it teaches nothing. To slap them on the face with enough force to be taken seriously, and not as a joke, is both painful, and INCREDIBLY humiliating for the child. So what if you're not breaking ribs?

[GregKII]

I was spanked as a child, and I appreciate my parents for it. I think it made me a well-rounded adult. I wouldn't have it any other way. Of course I resented them for it when I was younger, but looking back how else was I going to learn? They tried time-outs.. I was a tyrannical little tyke. I respect them for it.

[Kyanimal]

Earlier, someone equated kids to wild animals. And, they weren't far from wrong. We ARE "Animals", and, as kids, we need to be Taught what it means to live in a "civilized" society. Some kids can be Reasoned with, and others simply can't. Still, those Life Lessons NEED to be learned. If not for Our well being, and sanity, at least, if not more so, for Theirs! What that might take, in each case, is well worth the effort for ALL of Us.

As a simplified example ...

We adopted a 1.5yr old German Shepard from the local pound. When we met her, and took her outside to play, she was extremely friendly, very playful, and easily let us scratch her tummy, and other such GOOD Dog stuff.

However, when we got her home, we discovered that she wouldn't go from room to room without her leash. She had been imbedded with a "fear", an extreme reluctance, to step over perceived boundaries. We could only assume that her previous owners had been VERY abusive with her! It took at least a month before she realized that she was free to roam wherever she pleased. It took a LOT of Love, and encouragement, before she felt completely comfortable in her new home! And, for some odd reason, she would NEVER eat Milk Bones! It must have been something about her past, and how she'd been treated.

She was with us for 16 more years, and was also around while our three Young Nephews were living with us. We were amazed at how GOOD she was with the Boys, especially when they were so "playful" with her! She was petted, and hugged, and NEVER Spanked, just like the Boys. All of them responded to Positive reinforcement.

As our skittish dog flourished, so did "our" Boys. There was NEVER any need for corporal punishment (spanking). Thankfully, when needed, a Stern Word would suffice. And, even that was rare.

As I think of it, I'm rather surprised at how much there was a correlation between shepherding our Shepard, and raising our "wild animal" nephews!

Spanking is not ALWAYS an answer! However, sometimes it's a Necessity. Fortunately, we lucked out and didn't have any need for it.
My parents, though, certainly provided what was definitely Required in My case!

We all respond, in different ways, to different stimuli. What may be necessary for Some is not necessary for All.

All the more reasons to ... no matter what ...

Keep smiln'!!
Chaz

[Ninja108]

My parents never spanked me or my siblings and we turned out just fine.

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

Earlier, someone equated kids to wild animals. And, they weren't far from wrong. We ARE "Animals", and, as kids, we need to be Taught what it means to live in a "civilized" society. Some kids can be Reasoned with, and others simply can't. Still, those Life Lessons NEED to be learned. If not for Our well being, and sanity, at least, if not more so, for Theirs! What that might take, in each case, is well worth the effort for ALL of Us.

As a simplified example ...

We adopted a 1.5yr old German Shepard from the local pound. When we met her, and took her outside to play, she was extremely friendly, very playful, and easily let us scratch her tummy, and other such GOOD Dog stuff.

However, when we got her home, we discovered that she wouldn't go from room to room without her leash. She had been imbedded with a "fear", an extreme reluctance, to step over perceived boundaries. We could only assume that her previous owners had been VERY abusive with her! It took at least a month before she realized that she was free to roam wherever she pleased. It took a LOT of Love, and encouragement, before she felt completely comfortable in her new home! And, for some odd reason, she would NEVER eat Milk Bones! It must have been something about her past, and how she'd been treated.

She was with us for 16 more years, and was also around while our three Young Nephews were living with us. We were amazed at how GOOD she was with the Boys, especially when they were so "playful" with her! She was petted, and hugged, and NEVER Spanked, just like the Boys. All of them responded to Positive reinforcement.

As our skittish dog flourished, so did "our" Boys. There was NEVER any need for corporal punishment (spanking). Thankfully, when needed, a Stern Word would suffice. And, even that was rare.

As I think of it, I'm rather surprised at how much there was a correlation between shepherding our Shepard, and raising our "wild animal" nephews!

Spanking is not ALWAYS an answer! However, sometimes it's a Necessity. Fortunately, we lucked out and didn't have any need for it.
My parents, though, certainly provided what was definitely Required in My case!

We all respond, in different ways, to different stimuli. What may be necessary for Some is not necessary for All.

All the more reasons to ... no matter what ...

Keep smiln'!!
Chaz

go weed it

thankyou

exit sumwhere

[Kyanimal]

go weed it

thankyou

exit sumwhere

I'm guessing that's a Good Thing, Yes?

THANK YOU!, Sloppy!

Keep smilin'!!
Chaz

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

I'm guessing that's a Good Thing, Yes?

THANK YOU!, Sloppy!

Keep smilin'!!
Chaz

put a this way
Planet earth ans all life a hope da apes wot go fa humans of 1st world ova fa eons get beyon -fail grade-Poilte way put it

kool

[sixthson]

Lol no, I just suck at math and post on auto-pilot ^_^

Believe me, those are not THE AWESOME WORLD-SHATTERING CREDENTIALS I'd lie about on a gay forum. Yeah, obviously I was 15 when she was 5. That said, I did learn quite a bit about it, and I WAS 20 by the time she was 10

Irregardless!

I have hung around parents and teachers my entire life, and I've done a bit of both myself. That experience is what it is, little or a lot. But it tells me that if a child is old enough to understand what you tell him, it is your responsibility to find the words that work.

I was not questioning your integrity, I was kidding you about your arithmetic. I guess I should have used a smiley.

My brothers and I were not spanked, but we were brutalized. It was not unusual for us to be awakened in the middle of the night by a beating with the buckle end of a belt for some real or imagined wrong we had committed. It was not about discipline, it was about the rage inside alcoholic parents. I remember having the blankets ripped off the bed I shared with my brother and quckly covering my balls because that was the most important place NOT to get hit, apparently. Despite this, most of us turned out pretty fine.

BTW, I have never spanked my children and neither has my husband. It was not something we agreed not to do, it is just not how we are. But, we have friends and acquaintances that are great and loving parents who do believe in it.

[dereperez]

I think the key is that the line is actually NOT that fine. A beating and a quick spank are two VERY different things, and easily distinguishable.

I also think this is the bit which a lot of people miss, the distinction between the two.

-d-

eh...it's subjective. Fine line or not. The point is that corporal punishment is OKAY, imo. Child abuse is obviously not. Spanking should be reserved for the rear end and the kid should not end up bleeding or bruised.

[honooryuu]

my parents tried spanking for a while, but they came up with a different punishment. they called it hands and feet. they had my brothers and i put our feet flat on the floor and then put our hands flat on the ground so that we are standing kind of like a tent. after a few minutes in that position, it really starts to hurt. i think it is just as effective as spanking, but the parent doesnt actually have to lay their hands on the child.

[Rolyo85]

Wow... this topic got scary...

Sixthson, my respect to your parenting