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  1. #1
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    Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    http://seattletimes.com/html/localne...dronesxml.html

    Seattle Mayor McGinn directed the Seattle Police (yes that Seattle Police) to abandon its plans to use spy drones to data mine every citizen that is within the drones field of view.
    The plan to use the drones drew strong opposition from the ACLU and local citizens after the city held a PUBLIC hearing.

    McGinn said the two drones purchased by the city with federal funds will be returned to their vendor.
    Seems the militarism of the local police is still a threat to individual liberty, however, since the drones are federally funded, I wouldn't mind Holder using the drones to spy on the SPD.

    The drones were returned to the manufacturer. Whose idea was this? Shouldn't you have the hearing before wasting tax dollars on domestic surveillance technology?

    This comes on the heels of 30 cameras being recently installed along the Seattle waterfront without any discussion or deliberation from the public (we see why, the would have been rejected) While the cameras cannot see 'inside buildings' they essentially are used to protect the port from local threats to its operation. Recently $7 Million dollars worth of Nintendo Wiis were stolen from the port.


  2. #2
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    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    yay Seattle. They have put down a possible police state or call it what you may, I say police state because I have seen those tactics across the nation with the Occupy group.
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

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    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    Now if we could just shut down Homeland Security, we'd be getting somewhere.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  4. #4

    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    Face recognizing drones are impractical. It would be much more accurate and efficient to surgically implant a chip in every citizen.

    You can record every move and conversation and if they do something wrong...... like speaking against conservative politicians you can correct them with a mild electro shock.

    Call it Enhanced Citizens.

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    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    Quote Originally Posted by evanrick View Post
    I wouldn't mind Holder using the drones to spy on the SPD.


    Depends on the audience I think. I like the Green Ranger...


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    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    Anywhere a police officer could legally stand without your permission or a warrant is in my mind a suitable spot for a camera. Of course if an officer were to stand on the street and train her binoculars through my windows, she should probably have a reason that is subject to some kind of judicial oversight.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  7. #7

    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    Drones are perfectly acceptable to kill American citizens who may present a danger to the US ... or so says our President ... so I guess having face recognition ones aren't really that bad.

    Eric Holder says no reason for judicial oversight.

  8. #8

    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Drones are perfectly acceptable to kill American citizens who may present a danger to the US ... or so says our President ... so I guess having face recognition ones aren't really that bad.

    Eric Holder says no reason for judicial oversight.
    What's the buzzing over your head Springer?

    You amaze me how you always manage to squeak in a snarky comment towards the President, no matter what the topic. You must REALLY be upset he was re-elected.


    LOL!

  9. #9

    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    ... and your "snarky" (credit to rolyo85) comments continue.

    Things were much better when you weren't around Bob.

    Maybe you'll get locked up longer this time.

  10. #10
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    Thanks for derailing yet another thread...

  11. #11

    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    ... and your "snarky" (credit to rolyo85) comments continue.

    Things were much better when you weren't around Bob.

    Maybe you'll get locked up longer this time.
    OOOH Springer!

    Your trolling tonight is pretty severe. You'd better masturbate and go to bed.

    I'll take you to the army recruiter tomorrow but I'm afraid you'd flunk the physical.

    When you turn your head and *cough* make sure you don't get a boner.

    You're welcome.

  12. #12

    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    Thanks for derailing yet another thread...
    Oh that's okay Giancarlo. He's got a crush on me. I'm waiting for him to throw a rock at me and dip my pigtails in the inkwell.

  13. #13
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    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyBob View Post
    Face recognizing drones are impractical. It would be much more accurate and efficient to surgically implant a chip in every citizen.

    You can record every move and conversation and if they do something wrong...... like speaking against conservative politicians you can correct them with a mild electro shock.

    Call it Enhanced Citizens.
    What would be even better is if you could get them to carry around a tracking chip.. and then put all kinds of personal information into it and broadcast it to the world....

    Facebook app on your smartphone anyone?
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  14. #14

    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    What would be even better is if you could get them to carry around a tracking chip.. and then put all kinds of personal information into it and broadcast it to the world....

    Facebook app on your smartphone anyone?
    Why do people post all their personal shit in their facebook walls anyway? I have one but I don't have much personal stuff on it.

    Just googling my name I get almost a hundred thousand results. TMI.

  15. #15
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    Yeah I have a common name and it rings famous so the google results give those guys... many long dead but one quite active and popular on the interwebs....

    I don't get that either... on personal stuff. I post only shit I would yell to a crowd about my life... funny thing is I have two. One for professional use and one for the friends and family. I have been cultivating the one with just former colleagues as a way to have a legit looking FB for whenever an employer ask for it or searches me. One you can easily find if you have a few details about me, the other would be very difficult even if it has my mug on it....which it usually doesn't. It is sad but I will use subterfuge to protect my personal life...

    (standing by for calls of sockpuppet...lol)
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  16. #16
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    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    .
    I want to have a drone! Second Amendment says I can.

    ...with history the final judge of our deeds. - JFK

  17. #17
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    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    .
    I want to have a drone! Second Amendment says I can.
    I'm trying to picture you walking around with a drone strapped to your back.... or better yet, in a big hip holster.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  18. #18
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    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    Wow, that's creepy and hit close to home. Way to go, mayor, in standing up against tyranny!
    #439th oldest member on JUB.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post

    I'm trying to picture you walking around with a drone strapped to your back.... or better yet, in a big hip holster.
    No, the drone would hover science-fictionally by his shoulder.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  20. #20
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    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    No, the drone would hover science-fictionally by his shoulder.
    I'd like one, too, but that doesn't qualify as "bearing".

    Frak, I'd like one to carry all my gear when I go backpacking!

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  21. #21
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    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    Quote Originally Posted by Just_Believe18 View Post
    Wow, that's creepy and hit close to home. Way to go, mayor, in standing up against tyranny!
    I dont think it was Mayor McGinn, i think he saw how viscerally the public reacted in the public forum and decided if this is something he should stop that he was obligated to do it or be chased out of office.

    its amazing how much power mayors can wield when you think about it.


  22. #22
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    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    .
    I want to have a drone! Second Amendment says I can.
    That might be a flippant comment (or maybe it isn't!) but it is not unrealistic.

    You can buy a USAF approved drone for under 900 bucks on eBay today. You can buy a helicopter with high definition cameras on it for under $200.

  23. #23

    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    That might be a flippant comment (or maybe it isn't!) but it is not unrealistic.

    You can buy a USAF approved drone for under 900 bucks on eBay today. You can buy a helicopter with high definition cameras on it for under $200.
    It's actually a radio controlled model of a USAF drone. The drone your link provides is actually $3500 (the $900 is down payment). It's for aerial photography and video production. Besides, I'd be skeptical buying from the seller when he has a low feedback of 2.

  24. #24
    JUB Addict andysayshi's Avatar
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    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    The link wasn't supposed to be a serious "drone", it was simply the first link I found on eBay, and I hoped whimsical.

    I'll refer you to the interview with ex-fighter pilot, now drone expert Missy Cummings, on The Daily Show, who says you can simply buy a drone on eBay if you want one. The simple reality is that drone technology is dramatically outpacing the law, especially on an international level. We are rapidly approaching a situation where smaller nations will get much better return spending money on intelligent drone technology than actual man power.

  25. #25
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    That is right AndySayshi. Which is why we need a safety net of the damn things. fire with fire and all. We also need to develop an internal policy for use of force regarding drones and then bring it to the UN to enforce on the rest of the world so that we will have legal recourse for wreaking havoc upon the nation that attacks us with a drone.

    I personally think the tree huggers need to get a grip. Drones are an efficient, cost effective, 24/7 method of having a presence. Consider that while it was four minutes... still it was four minutes before f-16s were airborne during 9/11. So if you have super sonic drones in the air 24/7 at a fraction of the cost and using three to five ground based pilots... then you have constant capability. You dont need flight physicals for the pilots, you can rely entirely on simulators to train (saving the training fuel we burn now) and they are a fraction of the weight so they are much more efficient.

    This drone warfare 'can' we have opened in Afghanistan, Iraq, and in select places around the globe is going to be the story of human rights and wartime success for the next generation.
    Last edited by JayHawk; February 10th, 2013 at 08:37 AM.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  26. #26

    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    ^I'm all for drones. It does the job more efficiently and at a much lower cost in lives and cash. Those against drone warfare because they kill innocents forget that an army invasion also kills civilians and much more of them.

    Impersonal?.... who cares! Get rid of the enemy and drones work.

  27. #27
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    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    Yes except the enemy is still there isn't it? Kill one two pop up. Oh I don't have a solution and drones may be high level way of minimising terrorist elements but they won't eliminate them.

    Now what was it that Pogo said..."We have met....."

  28. #28
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    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    I'm amazed at the approval in this thread for allowing the government to make war against its own citizens in this country.

    Cops are cops. They kill the wrong people, shoot up the vehicles of innocent people, and so on... yet some of you want them to have more power and a bigger reach.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  29. #29
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    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    Why is a security camera any worse than a police officer standing at a corner observing?

  30. #30

    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    That is right AndySayshi. Which is why we need a safety net of the damn things. fire with fire and all. We also need to develop an internal policy for use of force regarding drones and then bring it to the UN to enforce on the rest of the world so that we will have legal recourse for wreaking havoc upon the nation that attacks us with a drone.

    I personally think the tree huggers need to get a grip. Drones are an efficient, cost effective, 24/7 method of having a presence. Consider that while it was four minutes... still it was four minutes before f-16s were airborne during 9/11. So if you have super sonic drones in the air 24/7 at a fraction of the cost and using three to five ground based pilots... then you have constant capability. You dont need flight physicals for the pilots, you can rely entirely on simulators to train (saving the training fuel we burn now) and they are a fraction of the weight so they are much more efficient.

    This drone warfare 'can' we have opened in Afghanistan, Iraq, and in select places around the globe is going to be the story of human rights and wartime success for the next generation.
    The trouble with the tree huggers they can't see beyond their love of our current President ... they and the media don't question anything.

    Drones will be or are in the hands of our enemies. It's an escalation of war beyond the imaginations of many.

  31. #31
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    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    I am from Seattle and I have no idea how I missed this

  32. #32
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    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    That is right AndySayshi. Which is why we need a safety net of the damn things. fire with fire and all. We also need to develop an internal policy for use of force regarding drones and then bring it to the UN to enforce on the rest of the world so that we will have legal recourse for wreaking havoc upon the nation that attacks us with a drone.

    I personally think the tree huggers need to get a grip. Drones are an efficient, cost effective, 24/7 method of having a presence. Consider that while it was four minutes... still it was four minutes before f-16s were airborne during 9/11. So if you have super sonic drones in the air 24/7 at a fraction of the cost and using three to five ground based pilots... then you have constant capability. You dont need flight physicals for the pilots, you can rely entirely on simulators to train (saving the training fuel we burn now) and they are a fraction of the weight so they are much more efficient.

    This drone warfare 'can' we have opened in Afghanistan, Iraq, and in select places around the globe is going to be the story of human rights and wartime success for the next generation.
    your a scaremonger.


  33. #33
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    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    Quote Originally Posted by Laufey View Post
    Why is a security camera any worse than a police officer standing at a corner observing?
    Because a police officer is visible and thereby somewhat accountable to the public. A flying security camera is an invitation to total disregard for citizen privacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by evanrick View Post
    your a scaremonger.
    No, he's a realist.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  34. #34
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    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    Privacy in the home is sacred in my opinion but when you are out in public you can't expect the same.

  35. #35
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    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    Quote Originally Posted by Laufey View Post
    Privacy in the home is sacred in my opinion but when you are out in public you can't expect the same.
    That leaves a lot of territory uncovered.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  36. #36
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    That leaves a lot of territory uncovered.
    I take your point about accountability and drones or civilian surveillance. But I also accept that police officers can stand in public places and observe wrongdoing and act, while being subject to scrutiny due to their obviousness.

    Any ideas on what appropriate scrutiny would look like if drones or cameras were positioned in public places?
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  37. #37
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    Re: Face recongnizing drones shot down in Seattle

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    I take your point about accountability and drones or civilian surveillance. But I also accept that police officers can stand in public places and observe wrongdoing and act, while being subject to scrutiny due to their obviousness.

    Any ideas on what appropriate scrutiny would look like if drones or cameras were positioned in public places?
    Cameras and drones are two entirely different things. Here's an illustration:

    Let's say I inherit a piece of property that's an island in the middle of a river, maybe two hundred acres with beach along the river, woods around the edge, and some ponds amid lawns and cabins inside. Now, the best a camera could do would be sit on the opposite shore and watch people coming and going. But a drone could fly over and, without even informing me, record ever moment of a no-clothes-allowed lawn and pond party where anything goes.

    In other words, drones abolish all but indoor privacy, making the meaning of "private property" null except in one's own dwelling -- and not even there, if windows are present.


    For proper accountability if we're going to let the police use drones, the drones would have to be large enough to bear the following information in sufficiently sized font to be read from whatever distance the drone is capable of observing from:

    * agency name
    * drone serial number
    * web site for finding drone capability
    * officer operating drone, i.e. name, badge number, and photo

    Further, since whatever a policeman on foot can see is also visible to the public at large, all images seen using a drone must be streamed online for anyone to watch if they care to -- and the information for finding that must also be on the drone.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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