Homophobia

[4playdude]

On a scale of 1-10, 1 being least homophobic, how would you rate the culture in which you grew up, including family, church, neighborhood on the level of homophobic behavior?
For instance, I am a white man, raised by parents from the deep south, in a Southern Baptist church, though in the northern midwest. Homophobia was probably an 8 as far as male to male relations, inability to talk about feelings, no hugs after age nine or ten, must not cry. I wouldn't say my family was intolerant to gays, I never heard a negative word on the subject.

Weigh in,

[tigerfan482]

Grew up in Greenville, SC, which was more liberal than the rest of the state, but I'd still say a 7. A lot of "religious" people down there who aren't very charitable or considerate to those who don't share their system of beliefs and practices.

[dragon08]

I grew up in El Paso, Tx. I would say the area is about a 4 or 5. El Paso is a pretty liberal area for Texas, I would say that people that you would meet in general like At school or just at random are pretty accepting. The only people who aren't are a handful of Douchebags that exist everywhere, and there is a bit of homophobia although not very hostile. A lot of people are like "I'm ok if you are gay but I would not want my child to be gay" or they will say they are accepting but still are somewhat judgemental.

[Rolyo85]

Grew up in the capital of Bulgaria. Religion is barely existing there, so that's not a factor. I'd say the cultural homophobia is around 7. My family - my kin would be a 4-5, my dad - 6-7. My friends are between 1-3.

[loveguys72]

About a 6 or 7. It was something that simply wasn't spoken of, unless as the punchline of a joke or with general disdain.

[bankside]

5

[jaymoney29]

Central Oregon here, Oregon is known for being liberal especially in Western Oregon, Eastern leans more to the right.

I am in the center so it's a mix of both, so on a kinsey scale i would say that my area (Central Oregon) is probably around a 5-6.
As for racism, that's another story (8-9!)

[Ryuukie]

I grew up in South Philadelphia -- a 10.

[G-Lexington]

5, but that's more an indication of the time period (70s and 80s) than anything else. It's probably closer to a 2 or 3 now.

Lex

[Nishin]

You should have made this a poll

[CupidBoy]

Full on 10.

[csb999]

Thinking bullying : are the victims ever girls ? ( given that sometimes the bullies are female ) .

[blackbeltninja]

Difficult to say, really. My mom pushed the "boys don't cry, you must be brave and take it on the chin, and not act like a girl" mantra, but that's probably because my dad left when I was 2 and she had to play both roles and this was her way of minimisng my chances of being picked on. IT's also probably representative of the 80s when I was growing up. As I grew older, she would make an occasional comment like "I wouldn't mind if one of you were gay" to my sister and I if there was something about it on tv or whatever. So it seemed pretty liberal.

Which made her OTT hysterical reaction to my coming out all rather puzzling. And to be honest, it's never quite come right again after that.

The extended family is another story; not liberal at all and most of them still don't know about me. So in all probably a 6, I would say.

I live in Cape Town, and spent most of my life here, and it is probably the 2nd gayest place in the southern hemisphere after Sydney and definitely the gayest place in Africa. Still, though, homophobia is quite rampant in large chunks of the city and the country as a whole, even though gay marriage is legal and was pushed through parliament. It was an overwhelming majority Yes vote, but to be fair the ruling party had a 70% majority and instructed all members to vote Yes. So I'm sure the law does not adequately represent the feelings of the country at large. So that's probably a 6 for Cape Town, and a 3 for the rest of the country.

And of course a big, fat 0 for Africa as a whole.

-d-

[eastofeden]

My grandmother was bi racial and living "in sin" with my grandfather and she was best friends with a lesbian couple...they met in the 1930s and they stayed friends their whole lives. No one pretended they werent' lesbians either and they were my "aunts". I knew them from when I was born.

My dad was from New York...My mom was from San Francisco...I grew up in New York and in the SF Bay Area...both of my parents hated religion. So...I probably had the easiest time being gay so a 1 out of 10...not so easy in other aspects but the gay thing was a non issue for me and still is.

[Anders123]

You should have made this a poll

I don't know about that. Adding an arbitrary numerical value is relatively meaningless, especially without some sort of explanation to go with it. My version of a five might be another person's seven, or three. And if my home life was a two, but outside of it was a seven, do I add them together and divide?

I'd much rather read another person's story than have it all simplified to a single number that leaves me wondering.

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

long a world phobia folk a tip
ans cut nails ans
no stickyfingas ans extra extra

there ya go

is think 1st worlds world ova a eons up ta sec manfolk awsums make phobia so many it a awsum
lucky femalefolk marry um ans make awsums so not whack job phobias

thankyou

this post is about you in seat 22

[Hard-up1]

The number definitely changed as I aged.

My small town of 19,000 had only a literal handful of out gays. One was a flaming and flamboyant son of local timber baron become state senator. He flaunted convention from the safety of a wealthy perch and affected a Southern drawl that would make Vivian Leigh proud. He made obscene public remarks and generally courted scandal. We sang in various local choirs together.

Another was a local nurseryman and florist. To be fair, he came from very poor stock like me, so it was understandable that he was pretty ignorant of botany and horticulture and good floral arrangement, but he at least was out. He was never nothing but nice to me, but there was a certain distance as I was from the inner circle of horticulturalist that flourish in the semi-tropical Deep South, so I always felt a little tarnished by association with him for his bad plant knowledge.

The third one was a CPA who was a notorious party guy and hedonist, known more for drunken excess than just being out. He later capped the deal by embezzling a large amount of money from the local Episcopal Church, which had a doubly sad effect, as they were one of only a couple of churches that openly defended gay men.

The final and closest example was David, the local choir director and organist at the largest and oldest United Methodist Church in town. He was out, effeminate, but not confrontational so much as proud and uncowering. His family owned a local dry cleaning business, was well established and were Southern Baptists. Ironically, he had been schooled in piano by the local pianist at First Baptist Church, where he was a member all his childhood. She was his lifetime loyal fan and champion, but she never spoke of his homosexuality, and she was a close friend of mine. A longtime widow, she needed help with this chore and that, so I was a regular in widow's circles with those kind of tasks.

But, David was a local phenom. It was the 70's and he was loved in his church and the larger community. His choir was the best in town. He grew his youth choir into a community-wide sensation that was hip and peopled with youth from the Presbyterian, Episcopal, Christian, and Baptist churches in addition to the Methodists. I sang in it. His example of integrity and excellence was just as powerful, if not more so, than any Stonewall protest. Rather than fight to ensure that otherness was celebrated, he led a fight that argued that sameness was what was at stake. That said, he never spoke overtly to the youth about sexuality, but simply lived it, just as most people don't discuss sex in public groups, then or now. When I was in high school, he was gone for a break to Florida and came back with a partner. The town was abuzz with the scandal, but it wasn't vicious, just small town gossip. He and his partner attended church together, started businesses, and generally just lived a normal life. I later never heard them ever say anything about any bashing or threats, etc.

So, coming from a small town in southern Arkansas, I saw precious few examples, and heard little about gays except for these four local men. Three out of four were from the middle class, so they enjoyed certain protection and social ensconcement. I have no doubt it was harder for the florist, as his people were Fundamentalist, so he was more pariah in his immediate circles, but not by his mother and immediate family.

From my perception, I'd say the community separated religious belief and theology from day-to-day practice and society. None of the four progressive denominations had an openly pro-gay position, but the practice was already modified at that point, and they had more influence in town than the more numerous Baptists, as the other denominations led more of society. So, in retrospect, I would perceive the homophobia to be about a four (4 for those who aren't reading and just scanned down to this line to find the rating -- Bender.) I never encountered real hate about gays, just murmurs.

Maybe a poll would have been easier.

[blackbeltninja]

Difficult to say, really. My mom pushed the "boys don't cry, you must be brave and take it on the chin, and not act like a girl" mantra, but that's probably because my dad left when I was 2 and she had to play both roles and this was her way of minimisng my chances of being picked on. IT's also probably representative of the 80s when I was growing up. As I grew older, she would make an occasional comment like "I wouldn't mind if one of you were gay" to my sister and I if there was something about it on tv or whatever. So it seemed pretty liberal.

Which made her OTT hysterical reaction to my coming out all rather puzzling. And to be honest, it's never quite come right again after that.

The extended family is another story; not liberal at all and most of them still don't know about me. So in all probably a 6, I would say.

I live in Cape Town, and spent most of my life here, and it is probably the 2nd gayest place in the southern hemisphere after Sydney and definitely the gayest place in Africa. Still, though, homophobia is quite rampant in large chunks of the city and the country as a whole, even though gay marriage is legal and was pushed through parliament. It was an overwhelming majority Yes vote, but to be fair the ruling party had a 70% majority and instructed all members to vote Yes. So I'm sure the law does not adequately represent the feelings of the country at large. So that's probably a 6 for Cape Town, and a 3 for the rest of the country.

And of course a big, fat 0 for Africa as a whole.

-d-

Doh

2 kind JUBbers have pointed out that I have my scale backwards. It should be a 10 for Africa as a whole, and probably a 7 for .za as a country, and a 5 for Cape Town.

Loooooooooong day.

-d-

[Nishin]

I don't know about that. Adding an arbitrary numerical value is relatively meaningless, especially without some sort of explanation to go with it. My version of a five might be another person's seven, or three. And if my home life was a two, but outside of it was a seven, do I add them together and divide?

I'd much rather read another person's story than have it all simplified to a single number that leaves me wondering.

A poll wouldn't prevent posters from telling their stories to complement.
And it would give a general idea, even though there are differences in values attributed to numbers, the more posters in the poll the more a visible median helps attenuate differences in definitions and visualize where JUBber' sum of experiments stands...

This said, I'm not sure how to answer the question myself, I grew up in different cultures... so I'll keep to the most direct surrounding, familial culture and say maybe... 3 ? For my mother occasionally made remarks that led me to believing she wasn't accepting of homosexuality and prevented me from being open on the subject until I came out in my 20es to find out it actually wasn't a problem to her at all...

[rareboy]

Probably an 8.

[xbuzzerx]

10.0 as I was born a member of the Saudi Royal family but then I ninja'd my way onto a plane while under enemy fire with Michael Jackson and Hillary Clinton and came to Los Angeles where it was like, 3-4 (growing up).

[alphaxxx]

Religion is practically non existent in South Wales apart from the few backwaters.
Most homophobia comes from the older generations like my parents and grandparents who make passing comments but nothing I'd consider all out homophobia. People my age are far more accepting so in 20 or 30 years I hope the issue of homosexuality will be widelly accepted. I'd rate the current level at a 6 or 7 /10

[4playdude]

I was shocked to get up this morning, amidst a michigan snow storm, and find 21 replies to my post late last night. reading through every story it brought tears to my eyes. why, because i felt so close to each and every person who posted their story. that leads to my next question, and a story. how many of you believe that male to male attraction has something to do with lack of male intimacy in our cultures? from my own experience, i believe that some of my male to male attraction is from a hunger for male intimacy, but i can't go back and reset the start button having those needs met, to find out. i will say that i have a very conscious sense of this being missing for me.

when i was nine or ten i was going somewhere with my dad, for his work no doubt. we were sitting in a 1960s buick with a big bench front seat. no seat belts used back then. somewhere deep in my heart i reached up and put my arm around my dad's shoulder. my father's response was, "men don't do that." i don't recall any conversation after that. I recall feeling ashamed, but not understanding what i had done wrong, no sense of it being sexual at that age. but later, i think that message was branded on my psyche about male intimacy. do you have a similar story?

please state your race, relative age or generation, location, and whether out or not. i am a white bisexual male, baby boomer, michigan, not really out, but some know. not against doing a poll. if so how should it read? i'd like to know what men think is the most homophobic culture. clearly the mideast has the most severe penalties for such behavior. are blacks in the u.s. subject to more homophobia than whites? southerners versus northerners? american's versus europeans? what about native americans? it has been said that their culture has always been tolerant of this variation on sexuality.

[4playdude]

state your religion too, or if not currently religious which faith you were part of growing up

changed my avatar this a.m. after reading your replies. the one i had felt really shallow. In fairness, it was so sexual because being sexual right now, even with guys I don't know on here helps to fill some lonliness for me. Exchanging sex talk with guys is a form of intimacy.

[JockBoy87]

5.

There wasn't really one single culture I spent my entire life exposed to growing up. It would have attracted a lot of uncomfortable attention if I came out in High School, so I never did, but terribly homophobic it was not.

[bankside]

10.0 as I was born a member of the Saudi Royal family but then I ninja'd my way onto a plane while under enemy fire with Michael Jackson and Hillary Clinton and came to Los Angeles where it was like, 3-4 (growing up).

Those Saudis do NOT like baby ninjas...glad you made it out!

[refujiunderground]

most definitely a 10. i learned that it was NOT okay to be gay at an early age as the other kids let me know that. one time, my female neighbor back where i used to live growing up and this was back when we were 5 or 6, called me the f-word. i dunno what it was over but she called me that. she was also one of the many bullies i had to deal with. you just knew that men didn't mess with men and women didn't mess with women because it wasn't the norm. if you were one of those people that did like the same sex, you were automatically an outcast as in people thought something was wrong with you. they'd let you know too. then to top it off, my hertiage is homophobic as well so it's basically drilled into you. i'm still trying to learn how to snap out of that mentality because i've been around that my whole life and i'm also learning how to find the courage to come out to other people who also been around the same homophobic atmosphere i came up around.

[HoodedRat]

I grew up in England during the 60s/70s, which seemed like a very liberal forward-looking period at the time.

My parents and family were all atheist/agnostic, so no one around me ever showed any religious-based bigotry and hatred towards gays. Back then England pretty much seemed like a post-religious country (of course it's all going backwards now with the rise of Islam and the resurgence of Christianity).

When I came out in my teens to friends and family everyone was very accepting and supportive. Even elderly relatives seemed to have no problem with the issue.

Overall, on a scale of 1-10, I would have to say about 4. The media was incredibly homophobic and sexist during the 70s, and we still had religious fucktards quoting the bible against us whenever they managed to get airtime on TV and radio.

I always thought it was no big deal being gay - I've been totally out to everyone everywhere for the past 35 years or so and I had imagined that growing up gay in a civilized country must be even easier nowadays ... then I joined JUB and read the horror stories of many people's experiences.

[G-Lexington]

I was shocked to get up this morning, amidst a michigan snow storm, and find 21 replies to my post late last night. reading through every story it brought tears to my eyes. why, because i felt so close to each and every person who posted their story. that leads to my next question, and a story. how many of you believe that male to male attraction has something to do with lack of male intimacy in our cultures? from my own experience, i believe that some of my male to male attraction is from a hunger for male intimacy, but i can't go back and reset the start button having those needs met, to find out. i will say that i have a very conscious sense of this being missing for me.

Nope. My father WAS a bit awkward when it came to expressing love or tenderness to my brother and me. But he tried very hard. He said "I love you" every night, and in retrospect, I can hear him pushing the words out. He had his own upbringing to fight against that told him such acts weren't manly, and he bravely said "fuck you - I'll do them anyway". Although there was a bit of distance there because of that, he minimized it the best e could, and I thank him for it.

I'm not gay because my father was distant.
I'm gay because I got lucky.

Lex

[GamerBear]

San Bernarghetto probably a 8, too many closet cases and gays on the down low.

[Kiwils]

Home was about an 8. Family/parents are religious (catholic) and would say a lot of homophobic things. They've come a long way though and are more open, but not quite completely there. I'd say they're a 4 now.

My neighborhood was a 9, maybe even a 10. I grew up in the ghetto, where if you weren't thuggish or "gangsta", you stood out and was a target. It's still pretty ghetto, but not as bad as it used to be. I'd say it's a 6-7 now.

[xbuzzerx]

Those Saudis do NOT like baby ninjas...glad you made it out!

I know. We baby ninjas spend our first 3 years fighting for survival with threats hiding behind every bottle.

Nope. My father WAS a bit awkward when it came to expressing love or tenderness to my brother and me. But he tried very hard. He said "I love you" every night, and in retrospect, I can hear him pushing the words out. He had his own upbringing to fight against that told him such acts weren't manly, and he bravely said "fuck you - I'll do them anyway". Although there was a bit of distance there because of that, he minimized it the best e could, and I thank him for it.

I'm not gay because my father was distant.
I'm gay because I got lucky.

Lex

Lex this statement isn't meant as oneupsmanship or to be glib, but I have a hard time envisioning that as a distant father. My father never said it, ever. I'm pretty sure I've never heard him say the words ever, even to my mom. That's distant! (Or Vulcan.) He is an engineer though, and turbological in most of how he 'thinks', but we definitely didn't have any kind of a warm relationship with him ever.

[layton]

I wasn't out in High School, but I'd say 8 and I'm being generous the majority of the student populate was "tolerant" but there would be discussions on gay rights and there was rarely a soul who was in favor, including the teachers who were arguably the worst in regard to gay acceptance.

[4playdude]

what part of the globe r u from? what generation. thanks for sharing, I've heard some of the worst stories having to do with teachers and administration.

I wasn't out in High School, but I'd say 8 and I'm being generous the majority of the student populate was "tolerant" but there would be discussions on gay rights and there was rarely a soul who was in favor, including the teachers who were arguably the worst in regard to gay acceptance.

[diamondstar]

New York. A six in my general opinion on How New York and the people feel and deal with homosexuality. Me personallya seven. My family accepts me, but I don't trust telling anyone else.

[4playdude]

Nope. My father WAS a bit awkward when it came to expressing love or tenderness to my brother and me. But he tried very hard. He said "I love you" every night, and in retrospect, I can hear him pushing the words out. He had his own upbringing to fight against that told him such acts weren't manly, and he bravely said "fuck you - I'll do them anyway". Although there was a bit of distance there because of that, he minimized it the best e could, and I thank him for it.

I'm not gay because my father was distant.
I'm gay because I got lucky.

Lex

but then there are those like me, assume there are others, who have a very conscious sense of missing male intimacy, and are not gay but have male to male attractions, some experimenting with guys. this subject is complex, with many other factors weighing in. sexuality is not rigid, but fluid, from my experience. my father never said i love you to me. i never saw him cry. but he was always there making me feel safe, until he wasn't there.

[Coward92]

Interesting Question.

People here are bloody cowards, so they only step up for their beliefs if they have at least 3-5 right behind them to back them up.
Everyone hates everything and everyone here, so basically homophobia is strong here, but the apathy and inactiob reduces the value to 5

[4playdude]

Interesting Question.

People here are bloody cowards, so they only step up for their beliefs if they have at least 3-5 right behind them to back them up.
Everyone hates everything and everyone here, so basically homophobia is strong here, but the apathy and inactiob reduces the value to 5

curious as to where here is. so you're saying that people are homophobic, anti gay but their apathy is such that they're reluctant, or afraid to express it? that sounds like progress, in that those who used to be out front demonstrating hate, now are afraid to be out front, maybe because those types are now in the minority, and those on the other side aren't afraid to speak up...fight back

[SaskGuy]

I'm from rural SK, and I'd have to say about 8-10. I live in the city now though, so things aren't so bad for me anymore.

[4playdude]

that's rough, bro.

I grew up in South Philadelphia -- a 10.

[4playdude]

sorry to hear that, especially for one so young. we have a ways to go.

Full on 10.

[4playdude]

I know. We baby ninjas spend our first 3 years fighting for survival with threats hiding behind every bottle.



Lex this statement isn't meant as oneupsmanship or to be glib, but I have a hard time envisioning that as a distant father. My father never said it, ever. I'm pretty sure I've never heard him say the words ever, even to my mom. That's distant! (Or Vulcan.) He is an engineer though, and turbological in most of how he 'thinks', but we definitely didn't have any kind of a warm relationship with him ever.

did you receive any intimacy from a male figure growing up? do you feel a void from your father being so distant?

[4playdude]

I wasn't out in High School, but I'd say 8 and I'm being generous the majority of the student populate was "tolerant" but there would be discussions on gay rights and there was rarely a soul who was in favor, including the teachers who were arguably the worst in regard to gay acceptance.

supports all the studies showing how conservative florida is, it's intolerable in your generation for such behavior

[mitchymo]

Well i've ever only known 2 people to be homophobic around me my whole life, personally, plus things heard on the news etc. Overall i'd have to say a 1. Nationally it maybe 2 or 3, but rearly most people are too busy with their own lives to fret about 'them gays'.

[xbuzzerx]

Well i've ever only known 2 people to be homophobic around me my whole life, personally, plus things heard on the news etc. Overall i'd have to say a 1. Nationally it maybe 2 or 3, but rearly most people are too busy with their own lives to fret about 'them gays'.

If I recall some study in the past several years correctly, it showed that UK males of student age were among the least likely in the first world to be homophobic, and the most likely to self-report that they don't mind hugging or kissing male friends.

[PreTTy PeTe]

I grew up in downtown Toronto.

my parents knew I was kinda of strange when I was in junior high and by the time I moved out they were crying that they worried about me. In Italian homes you don't move out in your teens. I brought my boyfriend for Christmas that year and seriously he was the best son in law they could have.

the best of times.

[mitchymo]

If I recall some study in the past several years correctly, it showed that UK males of student age were among the least likely in the first world to be homophobic, and the most likely to self-report that they don't mind hugging or kissing male friends.

I can believe it. When i came out to my best friend, a thoroughly straight guy back in 1997, he hugged me, which was great. But, i was not expecting on an occassion a few days later, when we were hanging out, we were walking somewhere but seperating at a certain point. It was broad daylight on a main road, and he went to hug me goodbye. It was me that withdrew, not knowing how to deal with it lol. It was an intimacy between friends that i hadn't yet encountered. In the years that followed, i found more straight guys treating me in the same way. I've had one joke about me giving him a blowjob in front of other friends. Others openly flirt. I had a straight work colleague put his arm around me at work a few months ago.
Now, if only i knew which straight guys were showing friendship, and which were giving me signals lol

[backagain]

I'd rate it a 4.
I would that base that number on my Mom.
Mom was very open and never judged.
She had her way of making an impression on others.
When Mom died, the amount of people that came to the
wake was mind boggling. Mom had a presence and understanding
that others gravitated to. She was my mom, so I didn't always see it.
It was a normal to me.

I was lucky to have her as a mom.

[4playdude]

I'd rate it a 4.
I would that base that number on my Mom.
Mom was very open and never judged.
She had her way of making an impression on others.
When Mom died, the amount of people that came to the
wake was mind boggling. Mom had a presence and understanding
that others gravitated to. She was my mom, so I didn't always see it.
It was a normal to me.

I was lucky to have her as a mom.

when i was a senior in high school i had dinner at a coworkers house, she was my age living on her own with a guy. the three of us had dinner, he was gay as could be. we all sat around and talked after dinner. he was flirting with me. she went to bed. he gave me a blowjob, both of us naked on the floor. i went home devastated by my homosexual encounter. the next morning before school i was an emotional wreck. i wanted to talk to my mom, and she avoided me, her intuition i think telling her she didn't want to know what was going on as a single parent with five kids.

several years later i told her i had sexual feelings towards men. she just broke down and cried, like it broke her heart. and it was never spoken of again. though i know she would accept that if I were to have a gay relationship, as would my other family members. however, my three brothers in law do not hug. my brother only hugged me once, on my wedding day. so sad. so sad.

[72-Jay]

I'm going to say somewhere 7-8 ish

I grew up in the 70's/80's, and for the most part in Colorado, outside the city limits of Denver. My mother is homophobic/intolerant to gays, father has never said anything either way. Have 1 brother & 1 sister, both younger than me. brother was homophobic (isn't so much anymore), sister is fully supportive of gays (and her kids are too).

Where I live.. when I was growing up there were never any 'out' or otherwize visible gays in the area (this pretty much still holds true today)
Allot of the neighbors are homophobic & some are racest as well.

I would say that the "7-8 ish" while growing up is something less now... but I still wouldn't 'out' myself any family members (or anyone else for that matter). That said I have taken some risks that I really shouldn't like going to the pride festival down in Denver