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Thread: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

      
   
  1. #101
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Quote Originally Posted by Lefty View Post
    As a less than active member of this forum, I get more and more confused every time I stumble in here.

    When an American citizen joins forces with anti-american forces (terrorists are a good example.) they have
    abrogated their rights as an American Citizen. And there is a PERIOD at the end of that sentence.
    .
    Hear, Hear!

    I would remind those that use the atrocity of GTMO to somehow represent Bush and evil would do well to remember that DEMOCRATS rejected the idea of military tribunals for war criminals as has been conducted since the inception of our nation. They then cried foul when in the course of trying to close GTMO Obama suggested tri-fucking-bunals. Another very simple case of partisan bullshit -- on BOTH sides. Triple A is deader than the eight track. That is how it should be. You did not hear a fucking peep out of cowardly americans with a political bent as our boys killed Americans in the German lines during WWII. They just said kill them enough so you all can come home. There is no difference here. Except republicans and some liberals grabbing at irrelevancy for a political win.

    I really respect the fact that Obama is trying to start a conversation, remember LIBS or COnservatives didnt make this blow up, Obama's 'leaked' memo made it a headline again. He wants this conversation so we might develop some discipline and guidelines for killing our enemies with drones because eventually (like say 2025) NO Americans will go into harms way except for ground troops. I imagine by 2050 even troops will be 'automated' and involve no dying on our side. What is more it is simple ass technology, SIMPLE! so now that we have thoroughly demonstrated the tactic it will be copied. It is VITAL that we establish drone "Law Of Conflict" so we can then impose it upon the rest of humanity via the UN. Otherwise it will be a free for all.

    Both sides please stop missing the



    for the


    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  2. #102
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Jayhawk both sides aren't missing anything. The difference between me and the resident Republicrats here is that if you present me with a vote where Democrats voted against trials for Gitmo detainees I would (and do) loudly say I don't agree with how they voted and I'm not happy they voted the way they did.

    My unhappiness with their vote wouldn't be contingent on whether or not my disagreement helped or hurt the Republican party at the moment.

    Can't say the same about our counterparts here from the other side.

  3. #103
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Buzzer I could give two fucks about sides. I have been in that rabbit hole on here. Problem is we miss the forest for a thousand "your a bad poster" trees. If posters upset you don't feed them because to you they are trolls. And for the record Buzzer you say NOW that you would be upset about a tribunal vote BUT no a single solitary voice on the left was for the trials. Then they tried the same game when Obama took over so they could judiciously and effectively close GTMO. As promised. Republicans denied it because the whole GTMO smear was part of the ignorant tactics used to smear the Republican party at the end of the Bush years.

    Dont get me wrong I disagree with me decisions he made but many of the criticisms were ignorant and self defeating for this country. I would also go so far as to say the prisoners at GTMO live better lives than most of you and that's comparing their lives to the standard of living in the US not the standard in Afghanistan, Yemen, Iraq or Somalia. So all we are doing by keeping that prison open politically is wasting our time, money and reputation while giving the prisoners a good life. Most of those folks will die when they go home.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  4. #104
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Buzzer I could give two fucks about sides. I have been in that rabbit hole on here. Problem is we miss the forest for a thousand "your a bad poster" trees.
    Considering you could give two fucks about sides you've gone out of your way to imply you see the big picture and the rest of us squabbling blind people don't.

    The general gist of what you said was, people are just going back and forth on this based on politics. In general that would be a true statement. What would be a false statement would be implying that the lefties around here about-face on something just because the person in charge has changed from Democrat to Republican or from Republican to Democrat. We sit here in CE&P endlessly arguing things like "Obama is not doing enough about healthcare", "Obama is killing people overseas" or whatever else coming out of the mouths of people who 50000% supported the opposite under Bush. That's the intellectual dishonesty I was commenting on.

    If you don't care about that fine-- whatever. But your post implied that both sides are doing that and that isn't true.

  5. #105
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    The lefties about faced on GTMO persons being tried on american soil in military tribunals until Obama was president.

    The lefties are NORMALLY the group of folks who scream bloody fucking murder if a civil right is perceived to be encroached and so would cry bloody hell if an american was killed with a drone under Bush. Consider the other drone thread in Washington. Was it the left or the right that involved the ACLU to strike down facial recognition?

    So why do lefties embrace it or at least not bother making a stink out of it? Politics. they did so during the run-up to November because it was the "I am a tough guy" defense for the President on military use.

    SO abo-fucking-lutely the left plays the same games. If you believe otherwise you are deceived. I believe in the game not the sides. Which is why i like politics. I like seeing how the game is won and lost. But to pretend one side is holy is ignorant.

    Finally, I dont think I am above it all but after a couple week hiatus it is easy to see when both sides are deep in the mud and slinging just to sling. SO I pointed it out. I suppose it musta struck a chord. Meh.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  6. #106
    In Loving Memory Lefty's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    First when Jayhawk refers to 'lefties' above he don't Fucking Mean Lefty.

    However, the Oaks, Pines, Redwoods, Cedars and the flora/fauna does not make the difference.

    Power up eyes and ears. Transfer data to Brain PROCESS all data using Think deep mode.

    The consider activating mouth apps.

    Personally, here I stand by my earlier post and The JayHawk.

  7. #107
    soooooo collllldddd rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Someone has been reading too many Sloppy Seconds posts. Put down the bong Lefty.lol

  8. #108

    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Obama's policy of murdering innocent civilians and labeling everyone killing as a terrorist is nothing new. This information came out a long time ago. It actually came up during the presidential election (where Romney agreed with the policy).

    I cannot wait until the US is under attack by remote drones or anything else. Just deserts, I will say.
    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    THis has been gone over time and time again. The faux outrage is nice, this has nothing to do with civil rights... the right wing is all about some civil rights but when it comes to others... forget about it.

    And Obama's administration has done a better job at combating terrorism than the prior one. All the red herrings won't change that fact. Thanks for the nonsensical argument.
    Which is a nice way of saying I support a war criminal as long as he has the right letter after his nam
    Quote Originally Posted by FuryOfFirestorm View Post
    When GWB was bombing the crap out of civilians, Republicans just shrugged their shoulders and called it "collateral damage".

    When Obama uses drones to kill enemy targets and reduce civilian casualties to a minimum, Republicans are foaming at the mouth getting their jimmies rustled.

    I guess they still can't get over the fact that Obama had Bin Laden put down halfway through his first term, while Bush II couldn't even locate him after 2 terms.
    "B-b-b-but Bush..."

    Really, child? That is all you have? The guy who did things that were less bad (was John Walker Lyndh murdered?) is supposed to excuse "your" president murdering US citizens--including a 16 year old boy--without trial? Really? That is your best argument?

    Obama does not use drones to limit casualties. The drones are used because nations like Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia (nations which the US is not at war) refuse to allow US troops in their borders. Pakistan does not even allow drone missions. It receives messages that they will occur and the US takes a lack of denial as an granting permission.

    bin Laden was the boogedyman. His death was symbolic (and a war crime; willful killing is prohibited by international convention). Using it or any other death for political gain shows how disgusting you are.

  9. #109
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    Someone has been reading too many Sloppy Seconds posts. Put down the bong Lefty.lol
    Rareboy you so knowledgeable....



    Seriously if you think that is incoherent then perhaps you should pick up the bong.




    @Itsmejeff: Just so you can equally hate my american ass, I encourage our use of drones regardless of who is in office. Just like every other war fighting technology we brought to the fold over the last seventy years (well really several hundred if you count guerrilla warfare) we will be better at it. Wanna know why? Ruthlessness.

    Bemoan it all ya want. If your not here in the US... deal... if you are here well shout to the heavens sweety. Neither will change a thing.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  10. #110

    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    we will be better at it. Wanna know why? Ruthlessness.

    Bemoan it all ya want. If your not here in the US... deal... if you are here well shout to the heavens sweety. Neither will change a thing.
    The cause of US success was distance and a lack of fighting on its shores. The US has never had its infrastructure destroyed. It never has had to rebuild an entire country.

    That will change, bro. More powerful weapons are becoming available to both nations and sub-national groups.

    This has nothing to do with ruthlessness. The US is just in a position no where it can murder without any negative consequences. Americans love killing because they feel that they will never know it. That is probably not true.

  11. #111
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    @Itsmejeff: Just so you can equally hate my american ass, I encourage our use of drones regardless of who is in office. Just like every other war fighting technology we brought to the fold over the last seventy years (well really several hundred if you count guerrilla warfare) we will be better at it. Wanna know why? Ruthlessness.
    I agree with this over ground invasions virtually any day tbh. Where I would almost undoubtedly get called a hypocrite in a future Republican administration is that Republicans have a penchant for naming enemies based on which country has resources our private industry would love to get first dibs on, rather than where there is actual threat-- but my opposition would not be against attacking insane governments or terrorist cells surgically rather than wholesale invading countries, which kills far more people on both sides.

  12. #112
    In Loving Memory Lefty's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Thank you rareboy for that careful and unbiased review of me, my communications and cognitive skills.
    Lest we forget, thank you for the appreciation you and your DRONES (XXX & XXXX) have expressed in
    your pustules...postings. My communication skills were developed in the California
    School Systems of the 1950's to 1970's and were integrated with my real life experiences from such
    mundane things as bomb shelters, hiding under the desk in the event of attack, the Red Peril, Atomic and
    Nuclear weapons, spy planes economic warfare, warfare to better the economy, recessions, Eisenhower
    Reagan (both Gov and Pres) Nixon, Carter, Clinton (No's 1&2.) 2 generations of Bush and an Obama.

    Lived them, Lived with and through them. If you and your drones can't follow simple analogous parables
    and unbiased view points like mine or even the pics like Jayhawk so thoughtfully provided, maybe you and
    yours need to hit the Bong and sleep with Sloppy to absorb his meanings.

    Christ on a crutch, do any of these silly threads ever stay on track Drone Strikes in this case?

    Anybody out in CE&P land with enough balls ...or whatever is used these days ... to bring this thread back
    on the rails? Make it So, Lefty Out.

  13. #113
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Quote Originally Posted by itsmejeff View Post
    Obama's policy of murdering innocent civilians and labeling everyone killing as a terrorist is nothing new. This information came out a long time ago. It actually came up during the presidential election (where Romney agreed with the policy).
    Thanks for the partisan rhetoric... have any more nonsense to share? Or will one continue beating a dead horse?

    Which is a nice way of saying I support a war criminal as long as he has the right letter after his nam
    Utter bullshit.

    The lack of logic is just astounding... maybe the right wingers here need to look at what logical fallacies are and try to avoid them when constructing an argument.

  14. #114

    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    Thanks for the partisan rhetoric... have any more nonsense to share? Or will one continue beating a dead horse?
    Partisan rhetorics, eh?

    I hate no party, child. My political views are best described as anti-American/western libertarianism.

    I do not base my acceptance of murdering people--for political gain--on party. I base in on the fact that it is illogical to murder people while claiming to be bringing democracy (a series of principles based on equality and liberty) and my view that Americans would not be so accepting of their people being killed. A school shooting was a big deal for the US. Drones that have killed some 170 children overseas? who gives a bibble?

    Can you just admit that you support a war criminal? Why is that so hard? The blood is on your hands as well. You want the death. You relish it. Why can you not admit it?

  15. #115
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    And here we go again with the pathetic insults. I am NOT a child. I will NOT be treated as one either. I have an understanding of politics that vastly outweighs some on here. In addition, the acceptance of murdering people? Take a look at what political positions that you have posted on here. And get back to me on that one. Obama isn't murdering anyone. I just love the clear and total double standards in the arguments of the right wingers on here.

    And Obama isn't a war criminal. Partisan bullshit... at best. A war criminal? Does one even realize WHAT a war criminal is? And how dare you speak to me that way. The blood is on my hands? Ask me my FUCKING VIEWPOINTS and I will be more than happy to tell them.

    I don't relish DEATH... I leave that to the war mongering CRIMINALS on the right wing who should be facing charges for all the war crimes committed under the prior administration and leaving Obama to clean up the mess. The right wing have caused such serious damage to this country's image it's almost irreparable. I feel bad for Obama really... he was left a mess the right wingers on here supported and created.

    The real war criminals are only on the right wing period. And I just love the FAKE SENSE of outrage the right wingers have... when they are the ones that supported the killing of tens of thousands in certain wars. And please don't try to backtrack. Obama didn't kill any school children. So spare me the faux outrage.
    Last edited by GiancarloC; February 11th, 2013 at 02:59 PM.

  16. #116
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Quote Originally Posted by itsmejeff View Post
    Partisan rhetorics, eh?

    I hate no party, child. My political views are best described as anti-American/western libertarianism.

    I do not base my acceptance of murdering people--for political gain--on party. I base in on the fact that it is illogical to murder people while claiming to be bringing democracy (a series of principles based on equality and liberty) and my view that Americans would not be so accepting of their people being killed. A school shooting was a big deal for the US. Drones that have killed some 170 children overseas? who gives a bibble?

    Can you just admit that you support a war criminal? Why is that so hard? The blood is on your hands as well. You want the death. You relish it. Why can you not admit it?
    A war criminal....?

    If it had been possible for the Allies to take out the entire Nazi leadership without the carpetbombing of Dresden and Germany in general, that would have been a far worse war crime than the way the war unfolded?

    170 killed < 100,000some killed in a ground invasion.

  17. #117

    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    And here we go again with the pathetic insults. I am NOT a child. I will NOT be treated as one either. I have an understanding of politics that vastly outweighs some on here. In addition, the acceptance of murdering people? Take a look at what political positions that you have posted on here. And get back to me on that one. Obama isn't murdering anyone. I just love the clear and total double standards in the arguments of the right wingers on here.

    And Obama isn't a war criminal. Partisan bullshit... at best. A war criminal? Does one even realize WHAT a war criminal is? And how dare you speak to me that way. The blood is on my hands? Ask me my FUCKING VIEWPOINTS and I will be more than happy to tell them.

    I don't relish DEATH... I leave that to the war mongering CRIMINALS on the right wing who should be facing charges for all the war crimes committed under the prior administration and leaving Obama to clean up the mess. The right wing have caused such serious damage to this country's image it's almost irreparable. I feel bad for Obama really... he was left a mess the right wingers on here supported and created.
    Argue like a child, be referred to as a child. That is what I say. "b-b-b-but Bush" is a childish way of arguing. Ignoring the expansion of abusive policies by the guy you voted for is childish.

    Yeah, war crimes. Obama and company are killing people who are not a threat to the US in nations at which the US is not at war. Some of these people are US citizens who have constitutional protections. At least one of those US citizens was a 16 year old with no links to any terrorist organization. though, according to Obama's campaign advisor, his father was not "responsible" enough, so he had to die.

    There are international laws dealing with war. There are specific requirements. Killing people who are not fighting against your country is not exactly legal. And that is what the US is doing now. It is not only fighting groups that have attacked the US. It is killing people who are fighting the governments of their own countries. The UN would like to investigate, but America is not playing that game. If this program is legal, what is there to hide?

    Obama did not kill any children? Well, if you mean he was not the coward who launched the missile, then you are right. However, it is his program. And children are dying. Some are known; others are not (http://droneswatch.org/2013/01/20/li...tan-and-yemen/). The use of drones has increased dramatically under Obama. The guy who claimed that the US does not torture is now killing people who are not charged with any crime or even known to be dangerous.
    Lest you skim over that last quote, ponder its meaning. A former high-ranking official in the U.S. government is asserting that the CIA kills innocent people in other countries, counts the corpses, and reports that they're militants, even though they don't actually know who the guys are.
    And this is Obama doing this. This is his "legacy." Killing the boogedyman--according to the guy's book, that was also a war crime, but the scumbags in the US military would responsible for that one--and others is just a way to show that Obama is keeping people safe. By killing people who may possibly be bad.

    see http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...orists/257749/ and http://rt.com/usa/news/drone-strike-...asualties-604/ for more information. Take note of the publication dates of those articles.

  18. #118
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Quote Originally Posted by itsmejeff View Post
    Argue like a child, be referred to as a child. That is what I say. "b-b-b-but Bush" is a childish way of arguing. Ignoring the expansion of abusive policies by the guy you voted for is childish.
    Again, the Code of Conduct is always listed under our usernames. And I did not employ any childish antics. And from what I've seen you call anyone who disagrees with you a child and other names. That says it all really.

    Yeah, war crimes. Obama and company are killing people who are not a threat to the US in nations at which the US is not at war. Some of these people are US citizens who have constitutional protections. At least one of those US citizens was a 16 year old with no links to any terrorist organization. though, according to Obama's campaign advisor, his father was not "responsible" enough, so he had to die.
    No, not war crimes because Obama and his administration did not commit any war crimes. Stop pulling things out of thin air... but then again that's what right wingers do best. When they supported candidates that murdered tens of thousands, it's patriotic. Of course.

    There are international laws dealing with war. There are specific requirements. Killing people who are not fighting against your country is not exactly legal. And that is what the US is doing now. It is not only fighting groups that have attacked the US. It is killing people who are fighting the governments of their own countries. The UN would like to investigate, but America is not playing that game. If this program is legal, what is there to hide?
    Obama ordered drone strikes against those who are in fact fighting against this country, but the refusal to look at that is what makes your argument so inconsistent and faulty.

    Obama did not kill any children? Well, if you mean he was not the coward who launched the missile, then you are right. However, it is his program. And children are dying.
    Children and women have died in every war, including the one right wingers started in Iraq that resulted in the deaths of 100,000 Iraqi civilians.

    And this is Obama doing this. This is his "legacy." Killing the boogedyman--according to the guy's book, that was also a war crime, but the scumbags in the US military would responsible for that one--and others is just a way to show that Obama is keeping people safe. By killing people who may possibly be bad.
    Keep up the distortions... distorting the truth seems to be one thing that right wingers specialize in.

  19. #119
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    You believe there is a double standard when there isn't one.

    I don't want innocent people to die at all, but even liberals all supported that we had to do something about the terrorist training camps in Afghanistan after 9/11. What I didn't support was full scale ground invasions of countries that had absolutely nothing to do with it.

    I don't want innocent people to die, but if the choice with a target we must strike (such as a terrorist training camp affiliated with a group that HAS carried out successful terrorist attacks against the U.S.) is either to invade the entire country resulting in tens or hundreds of thousands killed directly or indirectly, and surgically striking at the cells themselves, I take the latter.

    I don't suffer under any delusion that any method of war can reduce innocent casualties to 0%. That's why I believe we should only do anything at all in cases of actual necessity and not cases of political and economic expediency, as with the Iraq War.

    So no... simply saying that any method of war kills innocent people doesn't surprise me, but saying a method that kills far fewer is somehow something we should all be as outraged about as a completely needless ground invasion that resulted in the deaths of about 100,000 people and should be called a war crime by comparison is at best a stretch. At worst it's pure partisanship.

    If you want anyone to take seriously this notion that the U.S. is just willy-nilly calling anyone it doesn't like a threat and sending a drone after them then show us some instance of that instead of strikes on Al Qaeda cells that may have people of many different national backgrounds involved and telling us that's an inhumane war crime because some tiny percentage of them may be American by birth.

  20. #120
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Oh and keep up with the falsehoods with articles that don't back up your argument, jeff. Here is another word of advice: Don't attack posters personally and don't make things personal on here. It's against the Code of Conduct.

  21. #121
    soooooo collllldddd rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Quote Originally Posted by Lefty View Post
    Thank you rareboy for that careful and unbiased review of me, my communications and cognitive skills.
    Lest we forget, thank you for the appreciation you and your DRONES (XXX & XXXX) have expressed in
    your pustules...postings. My communication skills were developed in the California
    School Systems of the 1950's to 1970's and were integrated with my real life experiences from such
    mundane things as bomb shelters, hiding under the desk in the event of attack, the Red Peril, Atomic and
    Nuclear weapons, spy planes economic warfare, warfare to better the economy, recessions, Eisenhower
    Reagan (both Gov and Pres) Nixon, Carter, Clinton (No's 1&2.) 2 generations of Bush and an Obama.

    Lived them, Lived with and through them. If you and your drones can't follow simple analogous parables
    and unbiased view points like mine or even the pics like Jayhawk so thoughtfully provided, maybe you and
    yours need to hit the Bong and sleep with Sloppy to absorb his meanings.

    Christ on a crutch, do any of these silly threads ever stay on track Drone Strikes in this case?

    Anybody out in CE&P land with enough balls ...or whatever is used these days ... to bring this thread back
    on the rails? Make it So, Lefty Out.
    It was the purple hue of the prose and poetics that p[ut me in mind of Sloppy.

    I could'nt care less where you were educated or how long ago. It isn't relevant to the topic.

    But you and Jayhawk aren't getting any argument from me on the use of drones either. lol

  22. #122
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Quote Originally Posted by itsmejeff View Post
    The cause of US success was distance and a lack of fighting on its shores. The US has never had its infrastructure destroyed. It never has had to rebuild an entire country.

    That will change, bro. More powerful weapons are becoming available to both nations and sub-national groups.

    This has nothing to do with ruthlessness. The US is just in a position no where it can murder without any negative consequences. Americans love killing because they feel that they will never know it. That is probably not true.
    No not really gonna change Bro while we spend ten times more than all of our allies and our top enemies on development and implementation of weapons of war and tactics. Live in that world if it makes ya feel good but it aint coming anytime soon. Consider that ONE set of planes used as missiles resulted in the mass destruction of millions of people throughout multiple countries.

    I agree eventually all empires decline. As much as it appears it would give you some glee for it to happen, the U.S. empire will not decline in your lifetime. Even if you were born yesterday. We dumped the entire worlds economy on bankers gambling with sexy investments products and lies... yet where is the world investing today? We designed it and built it.

    Oh and as far as rebuilding nations, have you ever been to Germany or Japan? If areas were destroyed with something other than nucs we will rebound and the thing put in its place will be the most modern infrastructure that has ever existed. Might be good to have a bit of destruction. But I wouldn't wish that on people just to improve.

    If your thinking matrix like electronic warfare (which will be the next frontier) i would point you to the American mid-west (safe from climate change location) to the KNOWN computing facility that has more power than the world combined times a billion. I think we may be ahead in that game as well... but I could be wrong.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  23. #123
    Sex God tigerfan482's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Quote Originally Posted by itsmejeff View Post
    Yeah, war crimes. Obama and company are killing people who are not a threat to the US in nations at which the US is not at war. Some of these people are US citizens who have constitutional protections. At least one of those US citizens was a 16 year old with no links to any terrorist organization. though, according to Obama's campaign advisor, his father was not "responsible" enough, so he had to die.
    In countries like Pakistan, the US is at war with many of the people there. Despite the fact you obviously support it, it's not reasonable to expect the US to not pursue an enemy who runs from the battlefield into another country just to hop right back on over to start fighting again. These are people who are involved in battle and just choose to run away after their attack.

    As far as countries like Yemen go, the US is working with the government of that country to fight terrorism. Terrorists (including the supposed innocent American citizen and his son) get killed under the tacit authority of the government there. Constitutional protections do not extend to people who are an active threat to others. I've stated time and time again here - an example is police officers are legally allowed to shoot people who are pointing guns at them.

    And by the way, I find it hard to believe that a 16 year old was in Yemen with his terrorist father studying international business at University of Sana'a. You don't get killed in a drone strike that killed known terrorists if you have "no links to any terrorist organization." His father was a terrorist and he died with other terrorists. I'd say he had some pretty strong links to terrorism and wasn't your average 16 year old hanging out at the mall when a drone killed him. He wasn't even the intended target. The target was another terrorist and he just happened to be with him and 6 of his friends.

    Quote Originally Posted by itsmejeff View Post
    There are international laws dealing with war. There are specific requirements. Killing people who are not fighting against your country is not exactly legal. And that is what the US is doing now. It is not only fighting groups that have attacked the US. It is killing people who are fighting the governments of their own countries. The UN would like to investigate, but America is not playing that game. If this program is legal, what is there to hide?
    They are targeting and killing people who attacked our country - either through planning and participating in terrorist attacks on our homeland or by fighting us on the battlefield. We're not just going in and randomly bombing places in random countries. These are targeted terrorists. If they surround themselves with children and civilians, that's their fault for being too cowardly to fight and instead shoot some mortars at troops and then run back into Pakistan.

    Quote Originally Posted by itsmejeff View Post
    Obama did not kill any children? Well, if you mean he was not the coward who launched the missile, then you are right. However, it is his program. And children are dying. Some are known; others are not (http://droneswatch.org/2013/01/20/li...tan-and-yemen/). The use of drones has increased dramatically under Obama. The guy who claimed that the US does not torture is now killing people who are not charged with any crime or even known to be dangerous.
    Again, see above. In armed conflict, innocent people will die. It is unfortunate but it is the real world. Yes, the use of drones has increased under Obama because it is much more effective at targeting and eliminating the enemy than sending in thousands of ground troops, which people have said before, results in many more deaths. Also, you're not required to charge everyone on the battlefield with a crime before targeting them. That's not even a rational proposition.

    However, it is a waste of time trying to make any argument with you. You are obviously one of those fringe people who just hate everything but have no good ideas about what to do or who to be like. What would your response to the terrorist attacks of 9/11 been? What country would you like the United States to be like since you're anti-US and anti-western nations? How would you go about addressing the threats the United States and her citizens face? Let's hear some ideas and not just a litany of complaints.

  24. #124
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Very well put Tiger. I believe those as well but they have been stated so many times it is impossible to believe anyone but a child hasnt seen them... and since children cant be here.... meh
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  25. #125
    Banned chance1's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    I love the hypocrisy exhibited here - it's just ....... priceless

    Personally I trust the President and his band of taxers to pick just the right people and places to zap

    technology is awesome and powerful and the alternative is much worse for us and frankly for "them"

    and Better them than us

    But the flailing of those who crucified Bush and clearly would be doing so now is just more evidence just how fucked CE+P is

    making excuses for Obama when none were or would've been

    perhaps additional drone strikes - laser target - are in order

    to save lives or minds
    Last edited by chance1; February 11th, 2013 at 08:56 PM.

  26. #126
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Oh no... the platitudes are back in force.

    Where is the hypocrisy? I'd like to see it. Don't bust that ipad screen. Keep the platitudes and judgments to oneself. And who is making excuses for Obama? We've explained ourselves in lengthy descriptions, like Tigerfan. Tiger put it much better than I did in this thread and he needs credit for that. He did well explaining as to why these drone strikes are within justifiable perimeters (and I agree)... something better than one liners.

    The only thing fucked on here are the guys on the main page lol... literally.
    Last edited by GiancarloC; February 11th, 2013 at 09:05 PM.

  27. #127
    Sex God tigerfan482's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    I love the hypocrisy exhibited here - it's just ....... priceless

    Personally I trust the President and his band of taxers to pick just the right people and places to zap

    technology is awesome and powerful and the alternative is much worse for us and frankly for "them"

    and Better them than us

    But the flailing of those who crucified Bush and clearly would be doing so now is just more evidence just how fucked CE+P is

    making excuses for Obama when none were or would've been

    perhaps additional drone strikes - laser target - are in order

    to save lives or minds
    Ignoring your lack of punctuation, complete sentences, or any discernable point, I see that you mentioned Bush, so I will say that I would not have had a problem with GWB using drones to target terrorists. They're cowards who run and hide and if we have an effective means of taking them out without losing our soldiers' lives, then I'm for it regardless of who is President.

    However, I am not in favor of torture and I wouldn't be in favor of torture if Obama did it. Getting killed is an inherent and understood risk of battle. Surrendering and/or being captured and then tortured is not. Treaties like the Geneva Conventions serve to protect those that are either not part of the battle or have removed themselves from battle, either through surrender or capture. These treaties specifically disallow the INTENTIONAL targeting of civilians and non-combatants. However, knowing that unintended civilian casualties are inevitable in a conflict, they don't provide punishment for those. Since the US doesn't target civilians and those that are killed are because they were in the vicinity of the target, no crime has been committed. In the few cases where civilians were intentionally targeted, the perpetrator(s) have been brought to justice. The torture of anyone who has been removed from battle is NEVER unintentional and is ALWAYS a crime, so there is a huge difference between what I blame Bush for and what I support Obama in.

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    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Yay Chance is back.....



    When you're low down and dirty
    From walkin' the street
    With your old hurdy gurdy
    No one to meet
    Said love ain't the same
    On the south side of town
    You could look
    But you ain't gonna find it around

    It's the same old story
    Same Old Song And Dance, my friend
    It's the same old story
    Same old story
    Same Old Song And Dance

    maybe JUB drones missed him this time... send in JUB team six.....
    Last edited by JayHawk; February 11th, 2013 at 09:17 PM.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  29. #129
    In Loving Memory Lefty's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Jayhawk,

    You are my impartial but sometimes disputatious friend.

    Can an infrastructure be considered as a Country within
    its borders?

    Does killing of people, razing properties and abusing the
    environment to do so qualify as destruction?

    If so, what moron would say, even if he wasn't asked,
    about silly skirmishes like starting out as America was
    being BUILT, that silly 32 month dust up called the War
    of 1812? The Great Indian Wars? The Civil War? (and so on),

    Did they not count? Did my family members on all sides
    that died, they didn't count. on and on ad nauseum...

    You try to reason with him if you desire,
    {sarcasm ahead}
    I'll go research
    mini drones and if they can be programmed for people/even
    places that declare to be anti American or anti West.

  30. #130
    Banned chance1's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Yay Chance is back.....




    maybe JUB drones missed him this time... send in JUB team six.....
    back and better than ever cappy

    how could i miss the next morph of jayhawk ?

    who knows what's next ????

    no one knows

    we just know it'll be as if it was always so right ?

    as for drones, read somewhere that these drone attacks may have created the fervor for the benghazi attack

    that these drone attacks are stirring the hornets nest

    personally i love the drones and all that they do in lieu of putting american men (and women) in harm's way

    killing bad guys is good

    love when the weak knees cry for terrorists

    sorta fucked up

    as for me and drones, i'm too fleet a foot for no stinkin drone

  31. #131
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Lefty I agree with you on all points. Yet another aspect that I didn't have the endurance to put down into prose. For someone who doesn't care about America the burning of our capitol would neither make sense nor be a realistic justification they would embrace. SO I chose instead to point out how less than likely his prediction of America's fate would be given the current situation.

    I personally think our model will transform the earth into almost continental regions through the power of resource control alone. And a few bullets here and there.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  32. #132
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Chance my position remains the same... perhaps you will join me in loving America some day!

    As far as fleet footed? All us fairies have wings for evasion as well.................
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  33. #133
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    I love the hypocrisy exhibited here - it's just ....... priceless

    Personally I trust the President and his band of taxers to pick just the right people and places to zap

    technology is awesome and powerful and the alternative is much worse for us and frankly for "them"

    and Better them than us

    But the flailing of those who crucified Bush and clearly would be doing so now is just more evidence just how fucked CE+P is

    making excuses for Obama when none were or would've been

    perhaps additional drone strikes - laser target - are in order

    to save lives or minds
    You had absolutely 0.0 problem with this, nor did ANY Republican, when tens of thousands were dying in the Iraq War, which was wholly unnecessary, and was not surgically targetting terrorist cells.

  34. #134
    Banned chance1's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Chance my position remains the same... perhaps you will join me in loving America some day!

    As far as fleet footed? All us fairies have wings for evasion as well.................
    don't get narrow on me now JH - i was not referencing your "the military is amazing - how could it not be - i was in it" position

    rather your evolution on so many other issues

    i love the u.s. - unlike rareboy and others who dump on it

    obama's stewardship is regrettable - his failings obvious

    but we will endure and perhaps thrive during his reign (of error)

    on this he is right - and ironically he is un-progressive on it

    cause it's the best country in the world

    yep

  35. #135
    Banned chance1's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    You had absolutely 0.0 problem with this, nor did ANY Republican, when tens of thousands were dying in the Iraq War, which was wholly unnecessary, and was not surgically targetting terrorist cells.
    i fear ur massively confused

  36. #136
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    don't get narrow on me now JH - i was not referencing your "the military is amazing - how could it not be - i was in it" position

    rather your evolution on so many other issues

    i love the u.s. - unlike rareboy and others who dump on it

    obama's stewardship is regrettable - his failings obvious

    but we will endure and perhaps thrive during his reign (of error)

    on this he is right - and ironically he is un-progressive on it

    cause it's the best country in the world

    yep
    But ya see just like drones or any other thing Obama has done better than Bush... i like America and see the net effect... everything you see is hazed over by a Glen Beck-ian kind of hysteria over Obama.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  37. #137
    Suck my dick, Scalia! FuryOfFirestorm's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    don't get narrow on me now JH - i was not referencing your "the military is amazing - how could it not be - i was in it" position

    rather your evolution on so many other issues

    i love the u.s. - unlike rareboy and others who dump on it

    obama's stewardship is regrettable - his failings obvious

    but we will endure and perhaps thrive during his reign (of error)

    on this he is right - and ironically he is un-progressive on it

    cause it's the best country in the world

    yep
    How exactly are we "dumping on America"? I don't recall seeing anyone on here saying "AMERICA SUX!". And no, we're not "The best country in the world". Quit regurgitating that stupid Nationalist propaganda that Glen Beck likes to spoon-feed his listeners. I love America, but i'm not blind to it's faults. We are lagging behind many countries when it comes to health care, education and gun violence.

    *cue chance saying: "And it's all Obama's fault!".*

    To which I reply, "Yes, but he's trying to do something about them. You didn't win the Showcase Showdown, but you do get the home game. Thanks for playing!"

  38. #138
    Banned chance1's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    But ya see just like drones or any other thing Obama has done better than Bush... i like America and see the net effect... everything you see is hazed over by a Glen Beck-ian kind of hysteria over Obama.
    that's just dumb sweetie

    dropping glenn beck

    its cheap and stupid

    don't do that to u and ur "brand"

    which is so tarnished already by the stevens bullshit

  39. #139
    Banned chance1's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Quote Originally Posted by FuryOfFirestorm View Post
    How exactly are we "dumping on America"? I don't recall seeing anyone on here saying "AMERICA SUX!". And no, we're not "The best country in the world". Quit regurgitating that stupid Nationalist propaganda that Glen Beck likes to spoon-feed his listeners. I love America, but i'm not blind to it's faults. We are lagging behind many countries when it comes to health care, education and gun violence.

    *cue chance saying: "And it's all Obama's fault!".*

    To which I reply, "Yes, but he's trying to do something about them. You didn't win the Showcase Showdown, but you do get the home game. Thanks for playing!"
    more reason for drones

    massive confusion and misrepresentation

    whatever gets u thru the moment

    on drones obama is A+

    on other stuff not so much

    ask the un and under employed

    oh i forgot jobs is not a gay issue

    LOL

  40. #140
    Suck my dick, Scalia! FuryOfFirestorm's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    more reason for drones

    massive confusion and misrepresentation

    whatever gets u thru the moment

    on drones obama is A+

    on other stuff not so much

    ask the un and under employed

    oh i forgot jobs is not a gay issue

    LOL
    Do you ever actually read what you type before you post it? What "massive confusion and misrepresentation"? What the fuck do jobs have to do with the subject of drones?

    Also, i'd rather have Obama using drones to make precision strikes to kill terrorists rather than wasting millions of dollars bombing and invading villages only to end up getting dozens of troops and civilians killed and no dead Al-Qaeda members to show for it.

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    Banned chance1's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Quote Originally Posted by FuryOfFirestorm View Post
    Do you ever actually read what you type before you post it? What "massive confusion and misrepresentation"? What the fuck do jobs have to do with the subject of drones?

    Also, i'd rather have Obama using drones to make precision strikes to kill terrorists rather than wasting millions of dollars bombing and invading villages only to end up getting dozens of troops and civilians killed and no dead Al-Qaeda members to show for it.
    go back to YOUR initial post - which was misrepresentation and confusion

    as my comment was directed at JH who accused me of not loving america

    so the entire context of your nonsense was nonsense

    simply put

    as for the umpteeth time i love me some obama on drones

    so attacking me for it is sorta dumb

  42. #142
    Suck my dick, Scalia! FuryOfFirestorm's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    go back to YOUR initial post - which was misrepresentation and confusion

    as my comment was directed at JH who accused me of not loving america

    so the entire context of your nonsense was nonsense

    simply put

    as for the umpteeth time i love me some obama on drones

    so attacking me for it is sorta dumb
    I would have thought that you would love drones, chancey. After all, all you do on here is drone on and on and on....

    And without drones, who would listen Glen Beck or watch Sean Hannity?

  43. #143
    soooooo collllldddd rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    I love the hypocrisy exhibited here - it's just ....... priceless

    Personally I trust the President and his band of taxers to pick just the right people and places to zap

    technology is awesome and powerful and the alternative is much worse for us and frankly for "them"

    and Better them than us

    But the flailing of those who crucified Bush and clearly would be doing so now is just more evidence just how fucked CE+P is

    making excuses for Obama when none were or would've been

    perhaps additional drone strikes - laser target - are in order

    to save lives or minds
    oh good,

    you're back.....

    although one sees that you return with the same quiver of blunt arrows.....

    But let us first look at the hilariously unintended irony in your post. Yes the hypocrisy is priceless. Because the same person villifying Obama would have been glorifying Bush. You know it. We know it. We know you know it.

    Good to see though that you don't have any problem with the drome program at all.

    But you only make yourself continue to look small and ridiculous when you have to throw in silly epithets like 'taxers'. I do understand though, that you must have tons of pent up frustration and anger from your brief stay away.

  44. #144
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post

    But you only make yourself continue to look small and ridiculous when you have to throw in silly epithets like 'taxers'. I do understand though, that you must have tons of pent up frustration and anger from your brief stay away.
    What kills me is only someone who make a shit ton of money would actually give a shit and MOST of those folks desire to pay their share of the bill. Those that don't are like that loser casino mogul who threw billions at losing horse races. What I dont understand equally are the republicans wanting to cut spending more while keeping the military we have.... currently the service chiefs are spinning up their messages of woe and defeat. Soon the republicans will take up the mantra. SO they will be preaching a message of spending uncontrollably while not wanting to pay their bills....

    It defies the mind that they consider themselves the grown up party..... so bitter and divided. The republican party will have a message after the SoTU. So will the Tea Party. Oh and the Republican party is doing a speech in Spanish. Which is nice and all but (For Espanole Numero DOS) language selection does not a successful Hispanic enterprise make.

    And Chance once again I am for America... not for some partisan bullshit. I always will be so if the leader of my America changes occasionally don't be surprised that my party support does as well. Remember America and her people first, whining bitch ass parties unwilling to take responsibility and pay their bills can get in the back of the bus and shut the fuck up. The republican party if finally starting to get it on capitol hill.... perhaps you ought to take a lesson or two? Just don't do it from Lyndsey Graham or John "Loser" McCain... both of them are watching the ability for them to accomplish anything with their name on it disappear into the ether. SO they are bitter. Kinda like a embattled gay haiku poet.
    Last edited by JayHawk; February 12th, 2013 at 07:12 AM.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  45. #145

    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Only been back a few hours and already the personal jabs start. He will never learn.

  46. #146
    Suck my dick, Scalia! FuryOfFirestorm's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    OH SNAP, JayHawk!



    Two snaps in a z-Formation!

  47. #147
    In Loving Memory Lefty's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Good Morning,

    I have American Blood relatives over there fighting someone elses war at their request and
    hopefully to prevent a similar anathema growing and further attacking the United States.
    The current situation is not an X-box game doodoo heads. Real people die. Real innocent
    people die from all age groups. There is no place for namby-pamby excrement...

    **********************************************
    {You hit me to hard. I couldn't see the whites of your eyes. I'll see your assault and raise
    you two of my terrorist attacks and throw in two roadside bombings. I know something you
    don't know. You bastards, hurting me to get information that might end killing of bystanders
    and oppressed. NATO, XXXX isn't playing fair,

    ***********************************************

    I'm striving for good manners here...I have/had close family involved intimately, some terminally,
    all my life...60 plus years.None of them asked to go kill anybody. They were sent and in WAR,
    sadly, everybody loses

    On Topic, I am for The Drones or whatever thing else that will lessen the odds of Americans
    being decimated in someone elses piss-ups. All concerned can make up in the afterlife. If more Drones now means saving more lives now and or late...
    Drone on Mr. POTUS, drone on and away

  48. #148
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    Quote Originally Posted by FuryOfFirestorm View Post
    How exactly are we "dumping on America"? I don't recall seeing anyone on here saying "AMERICA SUX!".
    I consider the dumping on America view to be the one that says we shouldn't take any clean strikes at Al Qaeda surgically when we have the capacity to do so, and that if we do, the President is an evil war criminal because I don't like his party affiliation.

    Where was all this outrage for civilian casualties throughout years of occupying a country that had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11?

    This situation wouldn't even be close to analagous because the Iraq War resulted in about 100,000 deaths directly and indirectly. But even if it were comparable Obama would still need to say something like "Al Qaeda is planning terrorist attacks against the U.S................................... so we're going to use drones on Iceland" for this situation to be anywhere near analagous enough for this kind of disproportionate surreal reaction we're seeing from the Republicans here.

  49. #149
    In Loving Memory Lefty's Avatar
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War


    - - - Updated - - -

    another violation on top of another violation of the O/P's thread.

    Trying again.

    IMO, the drones are actually saving hundreds of lives every
    time ONE is used.

    I don't have the statistics at hand, but experience and
    common sense prods at me....
    Why waste man power when a little brain power and some
    technically savvy equipment can do a better job in a faster,
    more humane manner. Kill a bit nicer.

    Go Drones


    Platitude with Attitude... Dead men tell no tales
    (add on for reality purposes)
    and really no longer care how they died,

    They are Dead
    JMHO

  50. #150
    loki81
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    Re: Drone Strikes: Obama's Secret War

    I feel like there's a disconnect... most people don't have issues with drones as a matter of technology. being able to make targeted strikes against terrorists without having to put soldiers in danger is great.

    but there's a lot to question when it comes to the process (no oversight, evidence, or due process required to deploy them against US citizens, the fact that they're managed by the CIA and not the military, deploying them against countries we're not at war with, etc). there's also the question of whether they're creating more terrorists than they're actually killing, especially when they kill civilians.

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