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  1. #1
    mitchymo
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    House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21325702

    The 'Marriage (same-sex couples) Bill' is being debated today. The vote will take place at 7pmGMT (2pmEST) and is expected to pass by a healthy majority.

    The Bill will then pass to the House of Lords in due course where it is also expected to pass.

    I'll update with the vote result as they are announced if someone else doesn't do it first.

    Gay marriage is expected to be legal at some point in 2014 in England and Wales. Scotland is expected to legalise beforehand. Not sure where Northern Ireland stand, but more time likely needed for that region.

  2. #2
    Are you man enough? unloadonme's Avatar
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Gay marriage has been legal in the UK since 2005 under another name. Pretty much all this bill does is change the name from civil partnership to marriage. That's not a bad thing, but I can hardly say I'm awaiting the (foregone) result of tonight's vote with much excitement.

  3. #3
    mitchymo
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Quote Originally Posted by unloadonme View Post
    Gay marriage has been legal in the UK since 2005 under another name. Pretty much all this bill does is change the name from civil partnership to marriage. That's not a bad thing, but I can hardly say I'm awaiting the (foregone) result of tonight's vote with much excitement.
    Call it fickle Ulom, but gay 'marriage' is not legal. Its civil partnerships which are legal, and they are referred to as such, and not marriage. This Bill aims to rectify that pointlessness and inequality.

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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    Call it fickle Ulom, but gay 'marriage' is not legal. Its civil partnerships which are legal, and they are referred to as such, and not marriage. This Bill aims to rectify that pointlessness and inequality.
    Other than the name, what's the difference? This is just gilding the lily.

  5. #5
    mitchymo
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Quote Originally Posted by unloadonme View Post
    Other than the name, what's the difference? This is just gilding the lily.
    The principle, that is the difference. Civil partnership being preferred, to gay marriage being called marriage, is representative of religious imposition over the law of the land. It is NOT for the church or other faith groups to claim ownership of the institution of marriage. An 'anti-bill' MP stated, "It is not for government or anyone else to change the definition of marriage", yet seemingly it is ok for religious men and the church to define it in the first place.
    Marriage is what it is, marriage is what it should be called.

  6. #6
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Why don't you two just STFU and get married already??
    Everyone wants to be heard. No one wants to listen.

  7. #7
    mitchymo
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Quote Originally Posted by sixthson View Post
    Why don't you two just STFU and get married already??
    Don't you know already, liberals and conservatives are not a match made in heaven!

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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    Don't you know already, liberals and conservatives are not a match made in heaven!
    I hear the sex is hot, though.
    Everyone wants to be heard. No one wants to listen.

  9. #9
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Calling it "marriage" means equality under the law. My partner and I waited until same sex marriage became legal to tie the knot. We didn't want a "civil union" because it didn't have the same meaning

    I hope the UK government does the right thing. It's been the law here in Canada for years and I can assure them the sun continues to rise in the east and set in the west. We're better for it

    Good luck. I'm looking forward to hearing of a positive vote later today
    How naughty can I be and still go to heaven?



  10. #10
    GiancarloC
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Separate but equal is never equal. It needs to be called the same thing and it'll be equality under the law. I am unsure what civil partnerships have in the UK... but here in the US, civil partnerships and unions don't even have half the rights of marriage... and are far from the same thing legally. I am more in favor of equality... it's better in the end. The UK should join Spain, Netherlands and maybe France too in equality. It'll send a good strong message.

    There was a nice quote going around the gay community... "I don't want to "civil union" my partner... I want to marry them!".

  11. #11
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Seriously, guy? It is 2013 and there are STILL people ignorant enough not to be able to compute what the difference between a civil union and marriage is? O.o
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  12. #12
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Well the Bill passed the House of Commons by 400 votes to 175.

  13. #13
    mitchymo
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    The vote is in.

    400 vote in favour of the bill. 175 against. abstentions not revealed as yet.

    EDIT: there were approx 60 abstentions
    Last edited by mitchymo; February 5th, 2013 at 12:18 PM.

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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    The vote is in.

    400 vote in favour of the bill. 175 against. abstentions not revealed as yet.
    Ok, so what's next? I am a little foggy on the procedures there. What's the time frame?
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Seriously, guy? It is 2013 and there are STILL people ignorant enough not to be able to compute what the difference between a civil union and marriage is? O.o
    I'm sorry, but I hope you're not calling me ignorant. I can see that the difference is the name and I can see why some people feel that changing it is important. It's just that I don't think the name's a big deal. If anyone thinks that's ignorant, frankly they can f**k right off.

  16. #16
    mitchymo
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Ok, so what's next? I am a little foggy on the procedures there. What's the time frame?
    Perhaps Ulom may know more. I'm not clued up about the time frame before the vote is held in the House of Lords.

    I do know that if the HoL veto the bill, it will be voted on again in the Commons. The HoL can veto a bill twice only. A 3rd pass in the Commons goes straight to legislation.

    It is a drawn out process which is why a 2014 date for legislation has been predicted.

  17. #17
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Quote Originally Posted by unloadonme View Post
    I'm sorry, but I hope you're not calling me ignorant. I can see that the difference is the name and I can see why some people feel that changing it is important. It's just that I don't think the name's a big deal. If anyone thinks that's ignorant, frankly they can f**k right off.
    Calling you ignorant would get me banned ^_^ But your opinion on the matter is glaringly ignorant, yes.

    The difference is not "the name", it is the INSTITUTION. Marriage has a weight to it that is undeniable and unchangeable - at least for the next few generations or so - and nothing short of it is "the same" on most levels, including perception by society. Settle for "civil union" and people will forever see you as different, "less than". Furthermore, NO civil union bill has ever gotten even remotely close to conveying the same benefits that marriage does. Even those that come close on a state level, could just as well not even exist as far as the Fed is concerned. And with the collapse of DOMA, same-sex marriage will be equal to heterosexual marriage.

    Seriously, if you think that the lack of basic information that's easily obtainable all over the internet doesn't make your opinion in this topic "ignorant", I believe some "f**king right off" might really be in order.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    Perhaps Ulom may know more. I'm not clued up about the time frame before the vote is held in the House of Lords.

    I do know that if the HoL veto the bill, it will be voted on again in the Commons. The HoL can veto a bill twice only. A 3rd pass in the Commons goes straight to legislation.

    It is a drawn out process which is why a 2014 date for legislation has been predicted.
    Eek! Well, I heard it's expected to pass, not be vetoed. So if it passes on the first go...
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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    Are you man enough? unloadonme's Avatar
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    Perhaps Ulom may know more.
    I think the other posters will want to hear from someone less ignorant.

  19. #19
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Well done to them.
    "You may only be one person to the world, but you may also be the world to one person"
    - anonymous quote.

  20. #20
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    A clear majority - excellent. The House of Lords will rubberstamp this one
    How naughty can I be and still go to heaven?



  21. #21
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Calling you ignorant would get me banned ^_^ But your opinion on the matter is glaringly ignorant, yes.

    The difference is not "the name", it is the INSTITUTION. Marriage has a weight to it that is undeniable and unchangeable - at least for the next few generations or so - and nothing short of it is "the same" on most levels, including perception by society. Settle for "civil union" and people will forever see you as different, "less than". Furthermore, NO civil union bill has ever gotten even remotely close to conveying the same benefits that marriage does. Even those that come close on a state level, could just as well not even exist as far as the Fed is concerned. And with the collapse of DOMA, same-sex marriage will be equal to heterosexual marriage.

    Seriously, if you think that the lack of basic information that's easily obtainable all over the internet doesn't make your opinion in this topic "ignorant", I believe some "f**king right off" might really be in order.
    What you and a lot of others (mostly Americans) forget to realise is that people may WANT a civil union or partnership, people may PREFER a civil union or partnership, and people may NEVER under any circumstance want to be married. And it has NOTHING to do with all this 'separate but equal' and 'second-class citizen' and 'scraps from the table' bullshit that I'm always hearing.

    And by the way there are many STRAIGHT couples who wish this too. My point is that there should be a two-tier or even three-tier system for EVERYONE whereby all have a choice and variety of partnerships varying in name and degree and manner - and where all can freely choose what they wish that said union to be called and defined as.

    That doesn't mean I'm against this bill in Parliament - I fully support giving marriage to those gay couples who want it - but I just wish we could get away from the blatant stigmatising and name-calling around here of anyone who dares say they don't want to get married. It's ridiculous.
    Last edited by ChickenGuy; February 5th, 2013 at 02:23 PM. Reason: Typos

  22. #22
    Are you man enough? unloadonme's Avatar
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Calling you ignorant would get me banned ^_^ But your opinion on the matter is glaringly ignorant, yes.
    No, just it's just glaringly different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post

    The difference is not "the name", it is the INSTITUTION. Marriage has a weight to it that is undeniable and unchangeable - at least for the next few generations or so - and nothing short of it is "the same" on most levels, including perception by society. Settle for "civil union" and people will forever see you as different, "less than".
    Just about all of the people I know refer to civil partnerships as marriage already. I don't know what it's like elsewhere, but in the UK I don't think perception is anything like as polarised as you suggest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Furthermore, NO civil union bill has ever gotten even remotely close to conveying the same benefits that marriage does.
    The thread is about the legal position in the UK and you're wrong. Here the existing civil partnership legislation gives those involved almost exactly the same rights as straight marriage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Even those that come close on a state level, could just as well not even exist as far as the Fed is concerned. And with the collapse of DOMA, same-sex marriage will be equal to heterosexual marriage.
    This may be so, but for a thread about the vote in the UK House of Commons it's completely irrelevant. Not everything is about the USA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Seriously, if you think that the lack of basic information that's easily obtainable all over the internet doesn't make your opinion in this topic "ignorant", I believe some "f**king right off" might really be in order.
    Where's the lack of basic information? Just accept that not everyone interprets things in the same way and comes to the same conclusions as you do. It's remarkably arrogant to label everyone who takes a different view as ignorant.

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    Almost the same? Case in point.


    And if anyone prefers a civil union, they're welcome to it. The overwhelming majority doesn't.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  24. #24
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Quote Originally Posted by M4P View Post
    The House of Lords will rubberstamp this one
    I wouldn't say rubber stamp it, that suggests that the bill won't be properly considered. I expect there will be a full debate and opposition from the Lords Spiritual and others, but I predict a majority of Their Lordships will be "content".

  25. #25
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Congrats to the UK on making it to Second Reading. When is the final vote? Any problems likely in the Lords?

    Quote Originally Posted by unloadonme View Post
    I'm sorry, but I hope you're not calling me ignorant. I can see that the difference is the name and I can see why some people feel that changing it is important. It's just that I don't think the name's a big deal. If anyone thinks that's ignorant, frankly they can f**k right off.
    If the name is not a big deal, then no person would object to extending the name to gay couples recognised at law. If anyone objects on the grounds that "it's just the name that matters", then it disproves the idea that the name is not a big deal. We just can't rest until we get the full package of equality. Even if it weren't a big deal to gay people, it is a big deal to bigots, and they must be deprived of any breath of victory.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  26. #26
    JockBoy87
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    The UK will have equal status for gay couples before the US, of which I am insanely jealous. Marriage is a dignified and universal relationship that everyone and every country honors.

    People who are complacent are best ignored. There are some gays from a bygone era who are just happy to go through life without getting beaten up.

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    I'll update with the vote result as they are announced if someone else doesn't do it first.
    All yours.

    Not sure where Northern Ireland stand, but more time likely needed for that region.
    There are no plans being discussed right now in Northern Ireland.

    The Republic of Ireland, however, is going to bring it up in constitutional convention this April.
    Last edited by JockBoy87; February 5th, 2013 at 06:34 PM.

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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    I am heartened to hear not only of the victory but the size of the margin.Congratulations to Prime Minister Cameron for strongly promoting this bill and despite the opposition of a sizable chunk of his Conservative Party being on the right side of history, joined overwhelmingly by the Liberal Democrats and Labour. I evolved on the issue of marriage equality...three or four years back civil unions would have been fine with me but it was evident that status was not going to mean equal rights under the law, and I back without reservation only full equality under the law recognizing civil marriages of everyone equally among the states and nationally. And even under the best intentions you don't call it marriage oppponents will define and defame us to fit their agenda. So being unequivocal, full marriage equality under the law is the only way we can go on this and make that statement we are equal to everyone e;lse and will accept nothing less than full equality under the law.

    It's a shame though there is progress here we still have so far to go....I salute our British friends for their strong support of equality under the law regarding the institution of marriage. We must continue our fight to promote marriage equality here at home in a positive and determined manner. Thanks to jockboy for his tireless work promoting and advocating marriage equality throughout the US.
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  28. #28

    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Last week France, now the UK. This adds another 120mn people to those who live in countries with gay marriage in Europe, to the 90mn we already had. It's going fast now.

  29. #29
    JockBoy87
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeno Lorea View Post
    Last week France, now the UK. This adds another 120mn people to those who live in countries with gay marriage in Europe, to the 90mn we already had. It's going fast now.
    There is so much activity it makes my head spin.

    It is likely that we will see marriage equality by the end of 2013 in England & Wales, Scotland, France, Colombia, Uruguay, and the US states of Illinois, Rhode Island, Hawaii, Delaware, Minnesota, and hopefully in Ireland and the US states of New Jersey and California.

    Each one will have numerous legislative/court battles showing up in the news. It's impossible to keep it all organized. This is the busiest year for marriage equality ever, and may be the busiest one there ever will be. Never did I expect to see such optimism in seven states and seven countries at a single time, before it was good to see two or three, but seven is just crazy.
    Last edited by JockBoy87; February 6th, 2013 at 12:32 AM.

  30. #30
    Keeland
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Four countries make up the United Kingdom: England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. And there are three Crown dependencies: Guernsey, Jersey and the Isle of Man.

    This bill pertains only to England and Wales, not the U.K., as pointed out in this Hot Topics thread.

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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Thank you Keeland for the clarification. Still, a great day for England and Wales and for equality under the law worldwide.
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  32. #32
    mitchymo
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Quote Originally Posted by Keeland View Post
    Four countries make up the United Kingdom: England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. And there are three Crown dependencies: Guernsey, Jersey and the Isle of Man.

    This bill pertains only to England and Wales, not the U.K., as pointed out in this Hot Topics thread.
    Fine.....BRITAIN is set to legalise gay marriage.

  33. #33
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    yay England and Wales and France.

    Canada is glad that her two parents finally accepted this great indelible stride toward full equality for homos.

  34. #34
    Keeland
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY



    'Don't raise your hopes, Norman. I've got a feeling that Brad Pitt is already spoken for.'

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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    Fine.....BRITAIN is set to legalise gay marriage.
    No, Keeland is right to say England and Wales. There's an ongoing consultation exercise in Scotland, so no legislation yet:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-20680326

    I'm not sure what the position is in Northern Ireland. They're generally last to introduce legislation like this and a majority of Northern Irish MPs opposed the bill in the House of Commons last night. Quite what they (and Scottish MPs) were doing voting on legislation which only affects England and Wales is another question for another day. The West Lothian Question in fact.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21345322
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18407568
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Lothian_question

  36. #36
    mitchymo
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Quote Originally Posted by unloadonme View Post
    No, Keeland is right to say England and Wales.
    Nobody brought into question what Keeland said, rather he brought into question the use of UK, to which i ammended it to Britain, and now you are splitting hairs. Should Scotland gain independence, what coverage will Britain be? That's right, England and Wales.

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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    Nobody brought into question what Keeland said, rather he brought into question the use of UK, to which i ammended it to Britain, and now you are splitting hairs. Should Scotland gain independence, what coverage will Britain be? That's right, England and Wales.
    Britain is a contraction of Great Britain. That's the geographical name of the island consisting of England, Scotland and Wales. Scottish independence won't make any difference to that, just like North America would remain North America regardless of whether the US and Canada were to remain separate countries or become one. The political name United Kingdom would have to change, however, because there would no longer be a United Kingdom but rather two separate Kingdoms of England and Scotland.

    Now, about that room ...

  38. #38
    JockBoy87
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    yay England and Wales and France.

    Canada is glad that her two parents finally accepted this great indelible stride toward full equality for homos.
    The East Coast states should say the same of England, and Iowa in the Louisiana Purchase of France. Then, there are the once Spanish territories which are behind their former master.
    Last edited by JockBoy87; February 6th, 2013 at 12:30 PM.

  39. #39

    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Quote Originally Posted by JockBoy87 View Post
    There is so much activity it makes my head spin.

    It is likely that we will see marriage equality by the end of 2013 in England & Wales, Scotland, France, Colombia, Uruguay, and the US states of Illinois, Rhode Island, Hawaii, Delaware, Minnesota, and hopefully in Ireland and the US states of New Jersey and California.

    Each one will have numerous legislative/court battles showing up in the news. It's impossible to keep it all organized. This is the busiest year for marriage equality ever, and may be the busiest one there ever will be. Never did I expect to see such optimism in seven states and seven countries at a single time, before it was good to see two or three, but seven is just crazy.
    Don't forget about New Zealand and other jurisdictions in Mexico and Brazil! I expect the Supreme Court will uphold the lower court ruling and strike down Prop 8, thus allowing same-sex marriage in California to resume again.

  40. #40
    Keeland
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    There's a a strong political backlash, not only in "perfidious Albion," but in France.

  41. #41
    mitchymo
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Quote Originally Posted by unloadonme View Post
    Britain is a contraction of Great Britain. That's the geographical name of the island consisting of England, Scotland and Wales. Scottish independence won't make any difference to that, just like North America would remain North America regardless of whether the US and Canada were to remain separate countries or become one. The political name United Kingdom would have to change, however, because there would no longer be a United Kingdom but rather two separate Kingdoms of England and Scotland.

    Now, about that room ...
    As you are aware Ulom. There is no ACTUAL Britain. The understanding that Great Britain refers to the geographical entity of Scotland, England and Wales, and that 'Britain' is just a short version name of that, any break up of Great Britain is itself a contraction, and thus England and Wales without Scotland is perfectly and aptly Britain (-minus Great at the loss of Scotland.
    And, i think, that we should keep the name UK, lest it may seem like Wales and N.Ireland are deemed unimportant. We would simply be a 3 kingdom unity.

    Now, i charge 400 per month for the room...

  42. #42
    Keeland
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    I can see it all now.

    Scotland declares war on France because King Charles III (or George VII, depending on whether that doofus changes his name as he said he might) declares his hereditary right to the throne in Versailles.

    Since he remains king of England, he also raises an army in London to aid his Scottish endeavour. All the trees throughout the island that regrew since the Napoleonic wars are cut down to build a new navy of blockade and Canada must declare war on Louisiana to force the Louisiana Refund and "liberate" the cash.

    It'll be a bloodbath.

  43. #43
    Are you man enough? unloadonme's Avatar
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    As you are aware Ulom. There is no ACTUAL Britain. The understanding that Great Britain refers to the geographical entity of Scotland, England and Wales, and that 'Britain' is just a short version name of that, any break up of Great Britain is itself a contraction, and thus England and Wales without Scotland is perfectly and aptly Britain (-minus Great at the loss of Scotland.
    Sorry Mitchymo, but that's is total codswallop. It makes no sense to say that the UK without Scotland is the same as Great Britain without the Great.

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    And, i think, that we should keep the name UK, lest it may seem like Wales and N.Ireland are deemed unimportant. We would simply be a 3 kingdom unity.
    The term United Kingdom refers to the union of the Kingdoms of England and Scotland. If Scotland becomes independent, that union will cease to exist. Neither Wales (which is a Principality) or Northern Ireland (a Province) is a Kingdom, so there would be no other Kingdoms left for England to be united with.

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    Now, i charge 400 per month for the room...
    Seems fair. Which side of the bed do I get?

  44. #44
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    UK short for United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland - a country that takes up most of the British Isles.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  45. #45
    mitchymo
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Quote Originally Posted by unloadonme View Post
    Sorry Mitchymo, but that's is total codswallop. It makes no sense to say that the UK without Scotland is the same as Great Britain without the Great.
    It doesn't have to make perfect sense, since we are talking about BRITAIN, not the UK or Great Britain. We are free to define Britain as befits. A geographical island called Great Britain, encompassing 3 parts, when lessened, can perfectly and reasonably be referred to as just Britain.


    The term United Kingdom refers to the union of the Kingdoms of England and Scotland. If Scotland becomes independent, that union will cease to exist. Neither Wales (which is a Principality) or Northern Ireland (a Province) is a Kingdom, so there would be no other Kingdoms left for England to be united with.
    A kingdom is but a collective. It hardly matters what the parts are technically. An more than that, its just a name anyway.

    Seems fair. Which side of the bed do I get?
    Who said anything about a bed, you get a room, the spare room.

  46. #46
    Keeland
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    We are free to define Britain as befits. A geographical island called Great Britain, encompassing 3 parts, when lessened, can perfectly and reasonably be referred to as just Britain.
    Wikipedia:

    The name Britain and the terms British and British Isles are the linguistic descendants (reflexes) of one of the oldest names for an island referred to as Great Britain, its inhabitants and the smaller islands in the vicinity. The name was first reported by Pytheas of Massalia in the 4th century BC. Of the other ancient names for one or more of these islands, Albion and the Cassiterides, Britain and British are the only ones to survive in general usage. They still refer to the location and population of the islands. The name is tribal in origin, referring to a significant population of P-Celtic speakers calling themselves by the earliest known form of British. . . .

  47. #47
    mitchymo
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Quote Originally Posted by Keeland View Post
    The exclusion of Scotland, doesn't make redundant the use of a name which is unofficial. I couldn't imagine the Scots, if they wished to part ways, would then feel irked about not being considered part of what we could call Britain. That could even be the name of the new country if UK cannot suffice. We recognise the geographical (official) name of the island to be Great Britain, not anything previously called.

  48. #48
    Keeland
    Guest

    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    The exclusion of Scotland, doesn't make redundant the use of a name which is unofficial. I couldn't imagine the Scots, if they wished to part ways, would then feel irked about not being considered part of what we could call Britain. That could even be the name of the new country if UK cannot suffice. We recognise the geographical (official) name of the island to be Great Britain, not anything previously called.
    I merely wished to point out that Britain would still be Britain, as it has been for thousands of years.

    If Scotland left, however, the political Great would cease, perhaps in favour of "greater," when discussing the entire entity.

  49. #49
    Are you man enough? unloadonme's Avatar
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    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Guys, watch this:


  50. #50
    mitchymo
    Guest

    Re: House of Commons 'gay marriage' vote TODAY

    Quote Originally Posted by Keeland View Post
    I merely wished to point out that Britain would still be Britain, as it has been for thousands of years.

    If Scotland left, however, the political Great would cease, perhaps in favour of "greater," when discussing the entire entity.
    Ah, but there is no political 'Great'.

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