Pastor Leaves Nasty No-Tip Note to Waitress, then Demands she be fired (article)

[xbuzzerx]

No, I'm mystified because I don't think it has gone downhill any.

When I entered teaching in 1983, people paid teachers low wage and did not respect them.

Today, it looks the same to me.

I don't buy that low wage equals low respect given. In the places where I have worked, custodians are treated with respect.

Bus drivers aren't treated with contempt.

Cashiers are denigrated.

Nursing staff aren't treated like crap.

Any position CAN be disrespected, and sometimes by those who think they are better because of income, but I don't see that as being any worse than it was 40 years ago, and I was poor back then, so I remember.

I never claimed it was consistent. As I pointed out, it's not as if pastors are all rich but the way they will be generally deferred to is totally different from how a waiter or waitress gets treated. Perhaps because there is a perception that a pastor chose a life of little riches for some "other reason" whereas people tend to view people in food service as "not being capable of anything else." But nevertheless the distinction in social treatment is there.

To be honest I don't see "I saw a janitor get treated well" as much representing any general picture. It's always been my experience that the great majority of people literally act as though they do not exist, including avoiding eye contact and not saying hello to them. Much the same treatment homeless people are given.

[Hard-up1]

Because, among Christians, THERE MUST BE ORDER!

They need top-down rules or they're lost. Rules, laid down by the Christian god, who put slaves and waiters in their place, far, far below the godly — them. You can tell they're godly because not a single hair is out of place.

Yep. You nailed it. That is EXACTLY what the entire group of us is like, to a man.

I'm surprised it even needed posting, as it is such an obvious truth that no one ever questions it any more.

[Hard-up1]

To be honest I don't see "I saw a janitor get treated well" as much representing any general picture. It's always been my experience that the great majority of people literally act as though they do not exist, including avoiding eye contact and not saying hello to them.

To reduce my experience to "I saw a janitor get treated well" is to mischaracterize it. I did not post it as if it were a single instance, but the norm. We have just experienced the world very differently then. I have worked for companies large and small, and it is the norm to speak to the custodians, to thank them, to get out of their way when cleaning, etc.

Maybe it is a regional thing. I have worked and lived in Arkansas, Alaska, and New Mexico. The companies I have worked for have been as small as a couple of dozen people and as large as 200,000 employees.

[AshyPhoenix]

Let's not over-generalise. This is just about a low-life pastor, and I do believe that most of us are respectful and kind towards food servers and store clerks. I see a lot more people who are better than this pastor on a daily basis, and yes it's true that there are still those who need to be educated about how to treat others - be it a homeless person, an elderly, a child, or service workers - with respect and kindness.

If you think "most" people are respectful to those in retail, you haven't worked a retail job in your life.

[xbuzzerx]

We have just experienced the world very differently then. I have worked for companies large and small, and it is the norm to speak to the custodians, to thank them, to get out of their way when cleaning, etc.

Maybe it is a regional thing. I have worked and lived in Arkansas, Alaska, and New Mexico. The companies I have worked for have been as small as a couple of dozen people and as large as 200,000 employees.

Hard-up no rudeness intended, I find this anecdotal line of argument to be as worthless as you rattling down a list of all the black people you've known and saying that you feel none of them were ever treated differently for being black, and that therefore, you reject the notion that black people in general ever feel they are treated differently.

I don't have any doubt whatsoever that in the viewpoint of people in lower end service jobs-- cooking and cleaning and direct service-- would almost unanimously report feeling treated badly or as beneath common courtesy by many people in the normal course of their jobs. I'm almost certain that the people who would say they almost never run into that would be the exception or would work in very small, casual/friendly environments.

[zoltanspawn]

The service-charge at Applebee's is clearly stated. Had the pastor not wanted to pay it she shouldn't have made the choice to eat there. I consider her evasive "cancellation" of the charge the equivalent of theft.

If she felt she was somehow blindsided by the policy she could have notified the management. I have no doubt they would have waived the charge, explained the policy and invited her to come back adequately informed of it.

This sort of self-entitlement is unfortunately very common.

[Hard-up1]

Hard-up no rudeness intended, I find this anecdotal line of argument to be as worthless as you rattling down a list of all the black people you've known and saying that you feel none of them were ever treated differently for being black, and that therefore, you reject the notion that black people in general ever feel they are treated differently.

I don't have any doubt whatsoever that in the viewpoint of people in lower end service jobs-- cooking and cleaning and direct service-- would almost unanimously report feeling treated badly or as beneath common courtesy by many people in the normal course of their jobs. I'm almost certain that the people who would say they almost never run into that would be the exception or would work in very small, casual/friendly environments.

And I wouldn't take your statement as an insult. But, my observations are as valid as any other individuals posting. If the preponderance of them endorses my view or yours, that doesn't even constitute general population representation, as posters on this site are by definition a select band of the larger population.

My experience in low wage jobs makes me question the bad treatment perception by my co-workers, as I worked alongside a great many peers who a) resented working, b) resented not having high paying jobs, c) regretting throwing away their opportunities when they had rejected academics, and d) often blamed their employers and the business' customers for their unhappiness.

My original point remains: it is a two-way street, and I don't believe one side of the interaction is inherently to blame for the friction more than the other.

[xbuzzerx]

My experience in low wage jobs makes me question the bad treatment perception by my co-workers, as I worked alongside a great many peers who a) resented working, b) resented not having high paying jobs, c) regretting throwing away their opportunities when they had rejected academics, and d) often blamed their employers and the business' customers for their unhappiness.

This statement, to me, hints at implying blame at people in lower end jobs for the way they get treated.

It was always my experience in these jobs that I got treated worse, for smaller 'offenses', more rudely and with a far smaller chance of receiving any sort of apology than once I entered the "professional"/salaried world. And frankly, you're the first person I've ever run into in my entire life who claimed this wasn't a fairly universal truth about low end service jobs in the U.S.

I don't believe the attitude or the aptitude mattered. I was treated plenty of times as though I were stupid, even sometimes as if English were not my first language, when (being modest) I would consider myself more than passingly intelligent and certainly more than fluent in English. The way many customers treat someone who is just trying to help them for literally no reason I could ever ascertain other than because of the 'level' of job they were doing was downright offensive, both to me and to nearly all of my coworkers, many times.

And even if we're going to give a little light to your allusion that people in these jobs don't perform well or have a bad attitude-- the very, very easy flipside to that is, why are people expecting 4 or 5 star service and a happy attitude from someone trying to survive on minimum wage in this country? We don't pay minimum wage jobs enough for the people to have a true passion about what they're doing. They do it because they need the money. So even assuming 'servicepeople's attitude' is 'part of the problem', an innuendo I do not agree with by the way, the fact that people expect someone simply by virtue of being a waiter or minimum wage serviceperson to act like a delighted house slave to meet their romanticized notion of old-fashioned customer service is still part of the equation when we discuss how people treat servicepeople.

Of course I expect a certain level of service or civility from servicepeople. But I remember working those kinds of jobs, and I certainly don't expect them to suck my dick or act absolutely thrilled to be working at Del Taco. I question how in touch someone is if they would find that a reasonable expectation for someone making 6 bucks an hour with no benefits.

[Hard-up1]

This statement, to me, hints at implying blame at people in lower end jobs for the way they get treated.

There was no hint. I stated openly that they often develop bad attitudes, and of course it shows. That is not to say it is the majority or can be quantified, but it is common.

And, as I stated repeatedly in this thread, the great majority of customers and wait staff are respectful to each other in the restaurants I frequent here, so there is no reason why I need to blame one side unduly or excessively.

I'm just not going to concede to being biased against the poor, the low-wage, or the low-skilled in the workforce. I'm calling it as I see it, and I see it as hard work but not excusing of bad behavior. Likewise, I don't defend customers treating cashiers, clerks, and wait staff with disrespect, nor have I in this thread.

The debate seems to need to create a need to uncover or expose some sort of lurking elitism, whereas I simply don't see any such thing in the posts.

[xbuzzerx]

There was no hint. I stated openly that they often develop bad attitudes, and of course it shows. That is not to say it is the majority or can be quantified, but it is common.

And, as I stated repeatedly in this thread, the great majority of customers and wait staff are respectful to each other in the restaurants I frequent here, so there is no reason why I need to blame one side unduly or excessively.

I'm just not going to concede to being biased against the poor, the low-wage, or the low-skilled in the workforce. I'm calling it as I see it, and I see it as hard work but not excusing of bad behavior. Likewise, I don't defend customers treating cashiers, clerks, and wait staff with disrespect, nor have I in this thread.

The debate seems to need to create a need to uncover or expose some sort of lurking elitism, whereas I simply don't see any such thing in the posts.

If one doesn't want to see it, and one is willing to dismiss everyone who says they see it (including your own story about how you were treated as a teacher), then sure, it doesn't exist.

[Hard-up1]

I have no motive to not want to see it. Because we differ is not cause to impugn my perception or to impute willful ignorance.

My comment about disrespect to teachers wasn't about salaries. Parents abuse teachers, and disrespect them, because they indulge their children in many ways, and it inevitably puts them into direct conflict with teachers who may not sway to the willfulness of children who are being asked to do difficult work in class.

Whatever happened to the ability to respect a contrary viewpoint?

What is the damage being done by my viewpoint and your viewpoint being our positions and not having to minimize or insult the other?

You believe your experience and position is representative and mine is atypical; why does that result in your desire to make me into some sort of a misanthrope. I've calmly and respectfully disagreed and given examples and my own experience. Do you seriously believe that I'm some sort of elitist advocate who cannot detect simple disrespect as I hear a customer address an employee and vice versa? Are you seriously unable to respect the position simply because you don't believe it is credible? Respect isn't assent, it is respect.

[johaninsc]

Whatever happened to the ability to respect a contrary viewpoint?

good question...we don't see much of that here anymore

[AshyPhoenix]

What is the damage being done by my viewpoint and your viewpoint being our positions and not having to minimize or insult the other?

Source

[Hard-up1]

Dante, I have loved that cartoon since I first saw it here on JUB.

Thanks for posting it again. My Friday night at home just got better.

[xbuzzerx]

I have no motive to not want to see it. Because we differ is not cause to impugn my perception or to impute willful ignorance.

My comment about disrespect to teachers wasn't about salaries. Parents abuse teachers, and disrespect them, because they indulge their children in many ways, and it inevitably puts them into direct conflict with teachers who may not sway to the willfulness of children who are being asked to do difficult work in class.

If teachers were paid 200,000 a year and had secretaries, you believe parents would so shamelessly walk in and disrespect them as if they were their child's personal servant?

Whatever happened to the ability to respect a contrary viewpoint?

I understand your viewpoint but no, I don't respect it because I have no reason to believe it remotely reflects anything other than http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_world_theory

[palbert]

Buzzer - The world is full enough that ill will need be invoked.

[diamondstar]

The pastor's note was either malicious or cheap or both.

The waitress' posting was malicious and vindictive. She most certainly did not merely post it because it was "entertaining" as she claims.

They deserve each other. She was fired, which was appropriate for her actions when she knew better, and the pastor was outed as a louse, which is just.

Done and done.

I completely agree with this

[Hard-up1]

I understand your viewpoint but no, I don't respect it

OK, then I tried to engage with respect. If we can't do that, then I won't engage. I don't intend to be drawn into that sort of demeaning exchange. That's too bad, really.

[palbert]

Our presence on this earth is meaningless. Rest.

[xbuzzerx]

OK, then I tried to engage with respect. If we can't do that, then I won't engage. I don't intend to be drawn into that sort of demeaning exchange. That's too bad, really.

I said fairly early in I don't see anything productive coming out of "well that's not what I saw." I can't vouch for what you saw other than saying what I already said, you're the first person I've ever heard make the claim that people in low end service are about as respected as anyone else unless their poor attitude warrants disrespect. That isn't what I've seen, it isn't what I've heard out of anyone from a service job, and it wasn't my experience. And it is essentially a Just World viewpoint.

So if it's in the realm of anecdote that's an impasse.

[Hard-up1]

And I won't defend a position I did not take. I could impute an array of arguments to you, but if that is legitimate debate, then two parties aren't necessary: you can argue for your opponent and then counterargue, and surprisingly, you will win because you have stated both sides rather than merely rebut the one actually argued.

As I said earlier, I'm through, as it is not debate, it's just an attempt to demean and ridicule. I'll yield the field, as it matters not how I am made into caricature, as those who know me, even on JUB, know better. Imputing malicious or simple-mindedness to the other side is gratuitous. I don't need to believe I'm smarter or superior to the other side of a debate in order to make an argument well put.

[xbuzzerx]

And I won't defend a position I did not take. I could impute an array of arguments to you, but if that is legitimate debate, then two parties aren't necessary: you can argue for your opponent and then counterargue, and surprisingly, you will win because you have stated both sides rather than merely rebut the one actually argued.

As I said earlier, I'm through, as it is not debate, it's just an attempt to demean and ridicule. I'll yield the field, as it matters not how I am made into caricature, as those who know me, even on JUB, know better. Imputing malicious or simple-mindedness to the other side is gratuitous. I don't need to believe I'm smarter or superior to the other side of a debate in order to make an argument well put.

I've spent a good deal of the discussion correcting you making assumptions about my posts, or making assumptions based off having missed what I said in previous posts.

Don't presume 'mischaracterization' has been all or mostly on my end.

[SLOPPYSECONDS]

1st world publics got interent 2 now
- ooh dat not nice -
& no ware it then &

back on internet 1
singgggggggg a war ans make a lot a folk go
( ooh so tearfulls )
pass da wet sponge!
( ooh thankyou )

haaa

[ravenstar]

The Pastor's reference to "I only pay God 10% why should get 18%" is interesting and rather confusing. Is she saying that if God is only worth 10% of the total income a person can generate, then why should a server be paid a tip of 18% of the value of a meal? I doubt the tip would have equated to 18% of the pastor's total income, still we don't have that restaurant chain in Australia so I'm not sure of the prices.

Watching the news clip I wasn't at all surprised to hear the Pastor painting herself in a good light, particularly in relation to calling the restaurant to complain about the post on reddit. I highly doubt she was that calm and nice when she called. I'm sure she knew the young woman would be terminated from her position.

Mind you the young woman seems to be a bit of a twit. Reading the article in the OP she says the signature was illegible. Unless that means something different in the US than it does in Australia I'd say that's a load of bull spit. I could read her signature quite clearly. I'm assuming it was the posting of the signature, more than the actual receipt that cost the woman her job.

That said, I've never fully understood the need for mandatory tipping. In Australia our service staff are paid a minimum wage that, while not luxurious, is enough to live comfortably, our Government made sure that all Australian's are entitled to a minimum wage. In Oz tipping is left to the customer, it's more a bonus for excellent service than anything else. There's one place my friend and I go that seems to think it should be mandatory, but they leave the actual amount up to the customers.

People in service positions should not be reliant on the customers to make a living. They should be paid a fair salary for a fair days work by their employer. To be reliant on tips, only to have those tips shared out amongst a whole range of people is unfair. There's no reason why employers shouldn't be paying their staff a proper wage.

But back to the thread, I think the Pastor should learn to keep thoughts as thoughts. At best what she wrote was uncharitable and rude. Not necessarily the path a Pastor is supposed to take.

[borg69unimatrix]

^^^
You're always right when God is on your side.

[tigerfan482]

So being a person who holds both a good paying, professional job as well as a retail level services job, I will say the difference is night and day in how people treat you. I have actually dealt with people in the retail environment that will be nasty, condescending, and rude to me, even going as far as to throw out their profession as evidence of why they are right, and then will completely change their behavior when they find out that I am a full-time professional outside of the retail environment. There is no doubt an attitude that many people have that because someone works in retail or services, they are automatically inferior and deserve to be treated as such. What's even sadder is that this attitude has become much more prevalent to me in the last 7 1/2 years and I honestly blame the corporations that reward this type of behavior and treatment with giving the customer whatever they want instead of standing behind their employees and showing people that treating another human being like that doesn't get you anywhere.

[xbuzzerx]

So being a person who holds both a good paying, professional job as well as a retail level services job, I will say the difference is night and day in how people treat you.

Quoted for truth.

The difference is enormous.

I think I receive more apologies for short tempers or snappish words from clients on a weekly basis in accounting than I ever did total in years of working in fast food.

Oh, and I didn't receive Christmas presents from customers when I was in food service. Or have people apologize because "they knew I was so busy" when they had some kind of additional request.

A very large proportion of people believe not just "you get what you pay for", but also "you're worth what you're paid." No matter how much they may say they respect teachers or janitors or anything else, their actions speak louder than words.

[johaninsc]

something to lighten the mood



I wonder if Comicus got an 18% tip

[PreTTy PeTe]

this may be mean but the pastor seems to have the mental capacity of a child.

god save us from people like this.

[loki81]

vile as the pastor seems to be, I'd say the waitress was probably right to get canned.

if I was caught trash talking a client by name in public, I'd fully expect to get severely punished for it, if not outright fired, no matter what the client did to deserve it... suck it up, and if you want to bitch, do it in private amongst your friends and coworkers, not on a public forum for the entire world to see.

[Keeland]

That stupid woman claims she pays 10 per cent to her god of whatever her rake-off is in her risible storefront church. Her god, being god, is richer than god (nothing is beyond god). He needs the money, the gross riches of the universe being insufficient (though god alone knows his net, but I'd bet he clears a fat profit or he wouldn't have been in the biz for the 6,000 years since creation.

So she begrudges a server a tip because her god, her evident standard in demanded gratuities, needs her 10 per cent more than a server needs her eight per cent, though it's included in the bill, as stated on it and despite the server not owning the universe — she probably rents a room.

Or did, until her boss, Caspar Milquetoast, knowing hell awaits, caves to the rude, ignorant, ego maniac with the storefront church who can't read but who, nevertheless, possesses the manners of a slug and the proprieties of a pig and who has the fat-profit god and landlord of the universe patting her on her oleaginous backside for standing up to a $3.50-an-hour waitress and tossing her onto the street.

God and his hand maiden know how to keep those riches rolling in.





.

[Huntneo(PT)]

I always wondered why that is?

Because they're throwing all of their money into the church.

Meanwhile, the pastors are driving around in BMWs and Bentleys, living in mansions and making it rain...while their idiot congregations starve and have to ask their family members for loans.

A very large proportion of people believe not just "you get what you pay for", but also "you're worth what you're paid."

I'll co-sign on this. Perfectly summed up.

along with basically everything else you said in this thread.

And we don't give tax exemptions to religious cults and shonky ministers.

religious cults.

keep it 100, Pat.

You said a mouthful there.

[JohannBessler]

I do.

When I have lived "check to check," I certainly didn't piss away the job I had to retaliate against a customer.

I've worked restaurants, college cafeterias, and retail department stores. What I read on JUB is a perpetual lopsided bias against customers and for waiters. It's a 2-way street and there are plenty of guilty on both sides. The majority of customers respect wait staff and the majority of wait staff try to do a good job.

All the back-and-forths when there is a tresspass are just advocate positions of inherent bias, in most of the threads on JUB.

Hard-up, I do feel you may have missed the point.

I don't think anybody cares so much about the waitress getting stiffed.

They care about the fact that the miscreant worked as a pastor. We expect pastors to show a little magnanimousness, not exhibit miserly, cheap, and insulting behavior.

[JohannBessler]

this may be mean but the pastor seems to have the mental capacity of a child.

I noticed this, too, Pete.

She acted as dumb as a rock.

[LeicsDom]

What bothers me the most about this is that the good pastor supposedly represents the ideals of kindness and charity, yet he shits on a working person.

So many of those supposedly charitably minded clerics are hypocritical bigots of the worst kind

[holeconfusion]

She should take her group to KFC and eat some chicken. You aren't expected to tip there.

[Hard-up1]

Hard-up, I do feel you may have missed the point.

I don't think anybody cares so much about the waitress getting stiffed.

They care about the fact that the miscreant worked as a pastor. We expect pastors to show a little magnanimousness, not exhibit miserly, cheap, and insulting behavior.

Actually, the entire thread digressed into the recurring debate on JUB, pitting people in service jobs against their customers. For the germ of that, it was absolutely about the waitress being deprived of her tip, being righteous in anger when she chose to publicize it, and it being compounded by the fact that the cheap customer flaunted her reasoning as being her religious status.

Far from your statement, JUB has demonstrated repeatedly that it absolutely does not expect pastors to show magnanimous behavior. They are, by JUB perspective, pedophiles, greedy, ignorant, self-interested, intolerant peddlers of hate. Any reference to the pastor in this thread is just another pretext to hold up some isolated incident and cry, "see -- look at what those hypocrites do," which sounds a lot like a tit for tat exchange with the Fundamentalists to me.

When watching the video, it's obvious this pastor is hardly the Vicar of Dibley, more like East St. Louis. Applying middle-class stereotypes to clergy is just as inaccurate as it is when people assume gays are effeminate.

As far as the epithet of miscreant goes, both of the women in the altercation deserve it. It is just that the waitress has more of a sympathetic audience on JUB, and I'd suspect that it is for the reason that gays are disproportionately represented in service occupations and often resent it, thereby justifying the bad behavior by the employee in this story.

Far from the attribution made to me, I have not at any point argued that people get what they deserve as a systematic effect of justice, I merely stated that both were punished in this instance. To the degree that people act uncivil, they bring negative results. The syllogism that was implied by the other side, that all or even most mistreatment of servants is due to this, is not what I said. Of course there are assholes, and some of them are customers who lash out unfairly, and some of them are service people who resent their jobs and make sure the customer knows it.

Yeah, I get it, but thanks.

[lambdaboy]

He can shove his joke of a bible!

[Hard-up1]

The pastor wasn't a man -- that's sexist, and dated.

[Kahaih]

The pastor wasn't a man -- that's sexist, and dated.

So, too, is the word ‘waitress’ (and/or ‘waiter’).

- - - - -

NOT at any one poster in particular;

It’s interesting to see how people on the net use their blinkers to focus on just the parts of a situation/story that they want to see, and disgusting to watch them try to force others to only see (be outraged by?) that same narrow-minded view.

[Hard-up1]

Yes, I agree, although I don't agree on the perceived damage of sexist pronouns, etc.

In my case, I at least watched the vid, read the thread, and knew the genders of the characters involved.

It's also interesting to not how some people prefer sterilized anonymity on the web, without so much context as a continent to identify with, whereas others are just as corporeal and transparent as the man next door.

The web has the ability to afford both men what they desire, one to be unembodied and without a frame, and the other to be immediate and obvious.

[FuryOfFirestorm]

It's funny that the pastor claims that she "gives God 10%".

BZZT! WRONG!

Her congregation gives God 10%. She doesn't give God a single dime. In fact, she's living off their tithes, so she's basically stealing from God.

BTW Ms. Pastor: If you're not able to face the shame of being publicly exposed as a cheap bitch, then how about not being a cheap bitch in the first place?

[animalius]

Guys, don't forget that she originally demanded everyone be fired for this. Does anyone believe her aapology after that?

[Hard-up1]

Guys, don't forget that she originally demanded everyone be fired for this. Does anyone believe her aappoollooggyy after that?

No. It was never any more real than her presumed credibility as a leader.

[palbert]

I preferred Applebees when traveling. Those days are over.

[xbuzzerx]

Actually, the entire thread digressed into the recurring debate on JUB, pitting people in service jobs against their customers. For the germ of that, it was absolutely about the waitress being deprived of her tip, being righteous in anger when she chose to publicize it, and it being compounded by the fact that the cheap customer flaunted her reasoning as being her religious status.

As far as the epithet of miscreant goes, both of the women in the altercation deserve it. It is just that the waitress has more of a sympathetic audience on JUB, and I'd suspect that it is for the reason that gays are disproportionately represented in service occupations and often resent it, thereby justifying the bad behavior by the employee in this story.

Sounds like a leap and assumption-making to me.

[G-Lexington]

She should take her group to KFC and eat some chicken. You aren't expected to tip there.

If ever a situation called for Chick-Fil-A...

Lex

[palbert]

And black history month is off to a rousing start. Fire everyone bitch.

[Telstra]

She is a pastor. How do she give 10%?
She meant she take 10% from other people.

[MisterMajestic]

I could care-less about the Pastor's comments and I don't care that he's a Fellow Christian.....Big Damn Deal...Christians have bad days to and maybe that was his....Waitresses deal with Jerks all day every day....This is NOT a News Flash...

The Waitress that took the Cell-Pic of the note and BLASTED it online knowing the Pastors Name was visible DESERVED to lose her job. People have to learn to STOP using Cyber-Space as a way to vent Anger especially if it could lead back to your place of employment....

The Waitress that was left the note got over it and went home that night and probably had a good time with her Life......

Why feel sorry for the other chick that decided to involve herself when the Guy wasnt even HER customer....She's stupid....Let this be a learning lesson for her..She won't be putting Customers on Blast online anytime soon...And if she does it again she deserves to lose her job AGAIN...