And yes it does have merit, because these are not just opinions but they are also facts.
- - - Updated - - -
But how can we stop them all? Shooting them on sight?
Nope. Even the US couldn't get away with that shit.
Maybe we should build a wall?
Oh yeah - China and Germany tried that and failed.
Perhaps we should readjust our laws to make sure that foreigners can legally move and reside in our country, so they can positively contribute to society? One way or another, if a foreigner wants to escape an oppressive country, they will find a way here. Thousands of Cubans have traversed 90 miles of shark-infested waters just to make it to the shores of Florida, risking death rather than living under the boot of Castro for one more day. Thousands of Mexicans risk life and limb crossing miles of desert and the hazardous waters of the Rio Grande to get here, or spend all their savings to pay "Coyotes" to sneak them past the border. I'd say those people really, truly wanted to live in America in the hopes of something better - just like the Puritans and the British Colonists did.
Better to have a nation with more open borders... a nation with closed borders is a dying nation. The Chinese closed off their civilization and it led once great Empires to total decline.
And yes, plenty of other arguments matter... just not the one that you have posted here which is absolutely meaningless.
The problem here is right wingers are scared that they are becoming an ever decreasing minority of the constituency. Their screwball candidates can no longer win. It's a scary prospect. Romney won the same percentage of white voters as Reagan did... one won in a landslide and the other lost big time. Scary for the right wing these days... not like I give a shit. I hope this nation becomes 40-50% Latino in 20 years, and the Republicans go out the same way as the Whigs. Yeah, all the brown people hating the GOP does will go out the window.
You and I agree on only one thing. If I were emigrating, I would want to go an English speaking country, UK, Canada, Australia, NZ, US. Like you, I would not choose a Latino one.
Same f-king shit, different day.
English speaking countries are not that stable. I would choose a Latino one any day. They have more culture... and nobody cares what country one would choose to go to. Get something real please.
Costa Rica has been democratic for a very long time and doesn't even have a standing military. They abolished it. Maybe the US could learn a thing or two.
The US has a history of overthrowing democracies because they didn't like the outcome. Doesn't sound so democratic to me. Jacobo Arbenz was overthrown and supposedly drowned in his bathtub while in exile. Yeah... right. He was murdered by the CIA.
Ideally, you're right. But government is supposed to benefit its citizens, not do them harm -- and to round up all the illegals and ship them off would do immense harm to many citizens. The illegals must be penalized, but not in a fashion that harms citizens. Thus the sensible solution is penalties in place; the best approach would be fines which could be paid into an untouchable principal Medicare endowment fund or something.
"Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "
--Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000
*the number is now forty
If they are caught they do get penalized in this system. But I think the system should actually make it easier for people to come in and go through the processes, including apply for a green card or citizenship if possible. My friend who was brought here when he was very young (I think 11 years old, but I need to ask him again) needs to have the ability to apply in a more efficient way. The permit law (deferred action) that was signed in is going to be a help, but he's still waiting to hear back from the government... and they said they received his application back in November.
It's not an easy task, nor is it affordable for many to apply. Even the deferred action was far from cheap.
And please don't say "oh but $2.6 trillion doesn't matter"... it would slide this country into a massive recession. Of course that's what right wingers want. A massive recession so they can complete their disgusting political agenda.
If citizens take the jobs and prices do eventually rise as a result, it's more than a bit hypocritical of you to complain.
On the other hand, it is a fact that some jobs are only worth so much. People who are hungry will take them. Of course, they might have to be weaned from the government teat first, but that too, would be a good thing.
Yep, not wanted by citizens. It's not bullshit. If you want bullshit look at the right wing arguments in this thread. There is no evidence or proof for any of the claims made. The jobs are not going to be filled by citizens. And if they are, wages would increase big time... and food price wuold rise for the rest of us. Deporting all undocumented workers would cost the country $2.6 trillion. Get some facts please, and not more distortions.
And government teat first? LOL. Tell that to the welfare republican states.
Get some real proof, and I have already provided the evidence. How is it impossible to prove? Go and apply for one of those jobs then!
There's no way to prove that Americans will do those jobs until the illegals are gone and the jobs become vacant. And maybe not until the Government welfare teat runs dry.
Why would I apply for one of them? I don't need a job.
California... the state with the most undocumented immigrants... actually gets less than it puts in the US federal system. Most federal government money goes to republican states so it can pay welfare there.
Get something real and not the same old generic regurgitated falsehoods.
Such a weak, feeble personal attack... seeing as those weak, xenophobic attacks are TYPICAL. And what fucking questions? I didn't see any valid ones.
No, Latino is not a race. It is a culture. Giancarlo started the discussion when he first predicted the triumph of the Latino invasion. Why did you not object to that as racist? Why is it racist, in your mind, only when it is pro American?
- - - Updated - - -
So what's your point?
No, there is a difference between race and culture. When you call everything racist with which you disagree, you trivialize actual racism. If everything is racism, it becomes unimportant.If you want to get technical there are no "races" at all, only the human race. But for the purposes of political discussion, and race in that context is always socially constructed, they are a race or a separate ethnic group treated as a stand alone race on virtually any official form today in the United States.
So what's your point?
Last edited by CTF; February 8th, 2013 at 07:09 PM. Reason: repaired quote brackets
Of course, in that other parallel universe, it would then be the DEMOCRATS screaming about immigration reform and restrictions, Papers-Please laws, etc. as much as possible. Both Parties indeed have vested interests in this.
As such, if I were to move to another nation/country, all of my top choices would be ones where English is spoken, at least enough to get along in daily life.
If my first (or equal) language was Spanish instead, it's very possible that I would have, by now, started working ACTIVELY on moving to another country - probably Uruguay or Chile.
I still see NO reason why the approval process should take more than a month, with computers being EVERYWHERE!!!!!
Last edited by frankfrank; February 8th, 2013 at 06:47 PM.
Capitalize when needed. Did you help your Uncle Jack off a horse, or help your uncle jack off a horse?
AMY'S BOSS: Sorry, I need to lay you and Jack off. AMY: Can you just jack off? I feel like shit today.
"Any HUMAN, legal resident of the United States, shall have an unconditional right to vote." - I'd like this, with free Federal ID!!
I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony
By the way many Latino countries are doing FINE economically and growing strongly.
Here are some examples:
http://www.bnamericas.com/news/techn...low-inflation5 - Colombia GDP Growth: +4.5%
http://www.foxbusiness.com/news/2013...owth-around-3/ - Brazil is expecting a rebound in growth to +3% with unemployment at 4.9%. Gee... maybe we should look into what the Workers Party is doing to keep unemployment low.
I've had similar discussions privately with almost every poster who's made the past half dozen or so posts here.
I've even tossed a few infractions in both directions.
Each of you know who you are.
But if some of y'all are going to Post Report, then defend after the fact, there's not much that I can do as a Moderator other than to delete posts, close the thread, or ban and/or infract posters.
To both sides of this debate, much of what has been shared is the reality of the dialogue on this issue.
At least as I personally see it here in Texas.
There are not ABSOLUTES!
From where I come from Hispanic Immigrants are migrating here, and seem to be pissed that we're not doing MORE to accommodate their being here!
Including learning their shit language, known here in Texas as "Mexican."
When most Hispanic Immigrants from Central and South America speak true Castilian Spanish.
If I moved to Mexico City, I'm willing to bet that I wouldn't find anything written in English, I wouldn't have any benefits, and would be mocked and ridiculed for not being able to speak "Mexican."
As opposed to my trips to Columbia, Venezuala, Hondorus, and Chile where my attempts at Hable Espanol were welcomed.
So yeah, there's some historical "racists" divisions between the Americano and Mexicano boarders, so let's not overlook those realities as well.
Last edited by CTF; February 8th, 2013 at 07:27 PM.
Never regret anything, because in that moment it's exactly what you wanted.
That was a personal attack. I did not make any towards the other poster. I'm just asking something be done...
And people in Mexico speak Spanish. They fully understand me just fine and I do speak Spanish from Spain. I don't get the point of that comment at all. And asides from that the Spanish that they speak in Mexico isn't any less or inferior. Just like the Portuguese spoken in Brazil as compared to Portugal. Just different. That's all.
Donde hay fe,
Donde hay amore,
Donde hay pas,
Donde esta Dios,
No falta nada.
PS: Just sayin'