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  1. #251
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    If you stated only the raw figure of "social service dollars used" with no examination of economic contribution of *any* group in the U.S. besides hispanics, you could equally make just as valid a case that they're a drain and should be kicked out.

    .
    The economic contribution, if any, is irrelevant to the subject at hand. The fact remains that they are a drain on local resouces everywhere. More to the point, the fact that they are here illegally trumps any other consideration.

  2. #252
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Durango95 View Post
    OMG

    There are those that are STILL trying to assert that their opinion has merit.

    You've really got to get this guys...IT DOES NOT HAVE ANY MERIT BEYOND YOU....NONE.
    What I said wasn't an opinion, it was a logical rebuttal of a full page of this discussion.

  3. #253
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post

    The economic contribution, if any, is irrelevant to the subject at hand. The fact remains that they are a drain on local resouces everywhere. More to the point, the fact that they are here illegally trumps any other consideration.
    This is about as idiotic as saying none of the advantages of gay marriage matter because all that matters is that gays can't have kids...
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  4. #254
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Durango95 View Post
    OMG

    There are those that are STILL trying to assert that their opinion has merit.

    You've really got to get this guys...IT DOES NOT HAVE ANY MERIT BEYOND YOU....NONE.
    OUr opinions have sources and evidence to them, so drop the condescending insults and lets get back to reality.

    And yes it does have merit, because these are not just opinions but they are also facts.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    The economic contribution, if any, is irrelevant to the subject at hand. The fact remains that they are a drain on local resouces everywhere. More to the point, the fact that they are here illegally trumps any other consideration.
    Absolute bullsh*t argument. The economic contributions are absolutely essential. They aren't a drain on anything. They are contributing $260+ billion to the economy each year and that far exceeds the costs to the country. Stop cherry picking. Undocumented workers contribute greatly to the economy, and this is just the reality.

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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    . The economic contributions are absolutely essential. They aren't a drain on anything. They are contributing $260+ billion to the economy each year and that far exceeds the costs to the country. Stop cherry picking. Undocumented workers contribute greatly to the economy, and this is just the reality.
    Even if that were true, and it arguably is not, (BTW, you've provided absolutely no reliable proof to the contrary)the fact remains that the illegals have broken our laws in coming here. Nothing else matters. Nothing. Send them back where they came from,and if they really want to come to this country, let them attempt to do so through channels. No other argument matters. Not one.

  6. #256
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post

    Even if that were true, and it arguably is not, (BTW, you've provided absolutely no reliable proof to the contrary)the fact remains that the illegals have broken our laws in coming here. Nothing else matters. Nothing. Send them back where they came from,and if they really want to come to this country, let them attempt to do so through channels. No other argument matters. Not one.
    Their children haven't broken any laws though.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  7. #257
    Suck my dick, Scalia! FuryOfFirestorm's Avatar
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Even if that were true, and it arguably is not, (BTW, you've provided absolutely no reliable proof to the contrary)the fact remains that the illegals have broken our laws in coming here. Nothing else matters. Nothing. Send them back where they came from,and if they really want to come to this country, let them attempt to do so through channels. No other argument matters. Not one.
    Yes, some immigrants are committing a crime by illegally entering America.

    But how can we stop them all? Shooting them on sight?

    Nope. Even the US couldn't get away with that shit.

    Maybe we should build a wall?

    Oh yeah - China and Germany tried that and failed.

    Perhaps we should readjust our laws to make sure that foreigners can legally move and reside in our country, so they can positively contribute to society? One way or another, if a foreigner wants to escape an oppressive country, they will find a way here. Thousands of Cubans have traversed 90 miles of shark-infested waters just to make it to the shores of Florida, risking death rather than living under the boot of Castro for one more day. Thousands of Mexicans risk life and limb crossing miles of desert and the hazardous waters of the Rio Grande to get here, or spend all their savings to pay "Coyotes" to sneak them past the border. I'd say those people really, truly wanted to live in America in the hopes of something better - just like the Puritans and the British Colonists did.

  8. #258
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Even if that were true, and it arguably is not, (BTW, you've provided absolutely no reliable proof to the contrary)the fact remains that the illegals have broken our laws in coming here. Nothing else matters. Nothing. Send them back where they came from,and if they really want to come to this country, let them attempt to do so through channels. No other argument matters. Not one.
    False on all counts. I have provided solid evidence and proof showing how they are essential. We're talking about $2.6 trillion over the next ten years that would be wiped out. It means absolutely everything. The economy would fall back into a deep recession. Having a contraction in the GDP at that level would lead to a severe recession. sending people back to where they came from is nothing more than a xenophobic response and isn't how the real world works.

    Better to have a nation with more open borders... a nation with closed borders is a dying nation. The Chinese closed off their civilization and it led once great Empires to total decline.

    And yes, plenty of other arguments matter... just not the one that you have posted here which is absolutely meaningless.

    The problem here is right wingers are scared that they are becoming an ever decreasing minority of the constituency. Their screwball candidates can no longer win. It's a scary prospect. Romney won the same percentage of white voters as Reagan did... one won in a landslide and the other lost big time. Scary for the right wing these days... not like I give a shit. I hope this nation becomes 40-50% Latino in 20 years, and the Republicans go out the same way as the Whigs. Yeah, all the brown people hating the GOP does will go out the window.

  9. #259

    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    False on all counts. I have provided solid evidence and proof showing how they are essential. We're talking about $2.6 trillion over the next ten years that would be wiped out. It means absolutely everything. The economy would fall back into a deep recession. Having a contraction in the GDP at that level would lead to a severe recession. sending people back to where they came from is nothing more than a xenophobic response and isn't how the real world works.

    Better to have a nation with more open borders... a nation with closed borders is a dying nation. The Chinese closed off their civilization and it led once great Empires to total decline.

    And yes, plenty of other arguments matter... just not the one that you have posted here which is absolutely meaningless.

    The problem here is right wingers are scared that they are becoming an ever decreasing minority of the constituency. Their screwball candidates can no longer win. It's a scary prospect. Romney won the same percentage of white voters as Reagan did... one won in a landslide and the other lost big time. Scary for the right wing these days... not like I give a shit. I hope this nation becomes 40-50% Latino in 20 years, and the Republicans go out the same way as the Whigs. Yeah, all the brown people hating the GOP does will go out the window.
    So, what latin country do you think we should be like? Mexico perhaps with its huge crime problem. Venezuela? El Salvadore? Which country has a first world economy? Which has a median income more than, say, a third of ours? Which has had a democracy more than 10 years--one party "democracies" don't count.
    You and I agree on only one thing. If I were emigrating, I would want to go an English speaking country, UK, Canada, Australia, NZ, US. Like you, I would not choose a Latino one.

  10. #260
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    So, what latin country do you think we should be like? Mexico perhaps with its huge crime problem. Venezuela? El Salvadore? Which country has a first world economy? Which has a median income more than, say, a third of ours? Which has had a democracy more than 10 years--one party "democracies" don't count.
    You and I agree on only one thing. If I were emigrating, I would want to go an English speaking country, UK, Canada, Australia, NZ, US. Like you, I would not choose a Latino one.
    ... what?

    I don't even understand the point of this rant.

  11. #261

    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    ... what?

    I don't even understand the point of this rant.
    I was responding to Giancarlo's eager prediction of a Latino majority .

  12. #262
    Suck my dick, Scalia! FuryOfFirestorm's Avatar
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    ... what?

    I don't even understand the point of this rant.
    Here you go, buzzer - this should adequately convey your confusion:


  13. #263
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    So, what latin country do you think we should be like? Mexico perhaps with its huge crime problem. Venezuela? El Salvadore? Which country has a first world economy? Which has a median income more than, say, a third of ours? Which has had a democracy more than 10 years--one party "democracies" don't count.
    You and I agree on only one thing. If I were emigrating, I would want to go an English speaking country, UK, Canada, Australia, NZ, US. Like you, I would not choose a Latino one.
    What the heck? What's the point and where is the evidence? I'm not talking about El Salvador. By the way, anyone could bring up Costa Rica and render your whole argument moot. Nobody cares about the xenophobia that is evident in that country. People made the same old ridiculous claims about Italy. Why allow those Italians into the US? They are from a country that has an unstable government and periods of dictatorship! Italians at one point were discriminated the same way... even called wops and dirty.

    Same f-king shit, different day.

    English speaking countries are not that stable. I would choose a Latino one any day. They have more culture... and nobody cares what country one would choose to go to. Get something real please.

    Costa Rica has been democratic for a very long time and doesn't even have a standing military. They abolished it. Maybe the US could learn a thing or two.

  14. #264
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    I was responding to Giancarlo's eager prediction of a Latino majority .
    It's not an eager prediction. It's standing reality. Deal with it. And Latinos are just as capable of democracy as anyone else. What happened in Latin America during the 1970s/1980s was the result of US interference. The US destroyed democracies because they didn't like the candidate/president who won the election. Chile for example had a strong tradition of democracy and that was all shattered because some dumbfuck in wall street was unhappy... because of US INTERFERENCE.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Gu...'%C3%A9tat

    The US has a history of overthrowing democracies because they didn't like the outcome. Doesn't sound so democratic to me. Jacobo Arbenz was overthrown and supposedly drowned in his bathtub while in exile. Yeah... right. He was murdered by the CIA.

  15. #265
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Even if that were true, and it arguably is not, (BTW, you've provided absolutely no reliable proof to the contrary)the fact remains that the illegals have broken our laws in coming here. Nothing else matters. Nothing. Send them back where they came from,and if they really want to come to this country, let them attempt to do so through channels. No other argument matters. Not one.
    Maybe in right-wingnut pseudo-conservative la-la-land.

    Ideally, you're right. But government is supposed to benefit its citizens, not do them harm -- and to round up all the illegals and ship them off would do immense harm to many citizens. The illegals must be penalized, but not in a fashion that harms citizens. Thus the sensible solution is penalties in place; the best approach would be fines which could be paid into an untouchable principal Medicare endowment fund or something.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  16. #266
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    If they are caught they do get penalized in this system. But I think the system should actually make it easier for people to come in and go through the processes, including apply for a green card or citizenship if possible. My friend who was brought here when he was very young (I think 11 years old, but I need to ask him again) needs to have the ability to apply in a more efficient way. The permit law (deferred action) that was signed in is going to be a help, but he's still waiting to hear back from the government... and they said they received his application back in November.

    It's not an easy task, nor is it affordable for many to apply. Even the deferred action was far from cheap.

  17. #267
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Ideally, you're right. But government is supposed to benefit its citizens, not do them harm -- and to round up all the illegals and ship them off would do immense harm to many citizens. .
    "immense harm to citizens?" I rather doubt it. It would free up millions of jobs Millions. Perhaps some of the millions of able bodied citizens currently receiving welfare could be 'encouraged' to take those jobs. It would be a win win situation for Americans.

  18. #268
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    "immense harm to citizens?" I rather doubt it. It would free up millions of jobs Millions. Perhaps some of the millions of able bodied citizens currently receiving welfare could be 'encouraged' to take those jobs. It would be a win win situation for Americans.
    What nonsense. It won't free up "millions of jobs". Those jobs are not wanted by citizens. And if citizens were to take them they would demand higher wages and benefits... suddenly food prices would increase sharply. A win win situation? Rather a big time lose lose situation that would cost the economy an estimated $2.6 trillion over the next ten years.

    And please don't say "oh but $2.6 trillion doesn't matter"... it would slide this country into a massive recession. Of course that's what right wingers want. A massive recession so they can complete their disgusting political agenda.

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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    ". Those jobs are not wanted by citizens. And if citizens were to take them they would demand higher wages and benefits... suddenly food prices would increase sharply..
    "Not wanted by citizens?" That is where the bullshit appears. That is a total liberal conceit.
    If citizens take the jobs and prices do eventually rise as a result, it's more than a bit hypocritical of you to complain.
    On the other hand, it is a fact that some jobs are only worth so much. People who are hungry will take them. Of course, they might have to be weaned from the government teat first, but that too, would be a good thing.

  20. #270
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Yep, not wanted by citizens. It's not bullshit. If you want bullshit look at the right wing arguments in this thread. There is no evidence or proof for any of the claims made. The jobs are not going to be filled by citizens. And if they are, wages would increase big time... and food price wuold rise for the rest of us. Deporting all undocumented workers would cost the country $2.6 trillion. Get some facts please, and not more distortions.

    And government teat first? LOL. Tell that to the welfare republican states.

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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    . The jobs are not going to be filled by citizens..
    You cannot know that, because it is impossible to prove.
    Send the illegals home and see what happens.

  22. #272
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    You cannot know that, because it is impossible to prove.
    Send the illegals home and see what happens.
    And again thanks for that awesome two line response. I am so convinced right now I think I'll run for President of the United States as a republican... lmao... not.

    Get some real proof, and I have already provided the evidence. How is it impossible to prove? Go and apply for one of those jobs then!

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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    Get some real proof, and I have already provided the evidence. How is it impossible to prove? Go and apply for one of those jobs then!
    You have provided zero evidence of anything, let alone the topic at hand.
    There's no way to prove that Americans will do those jobs until the illegals are gone and the jobs become vacant. And maybe not until the Government welfare teat runs dry.
    Why would I apply for one of them? I don't need a job.

  24. #274
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    You have provided zero evidence of anything, let alone the topic at hand.
    There's no way to prove that Americans will do those jobs until the illegals are gone and the jobs become vacant. And maybe not until the Government welfare teat runs dry.
    Why would I apply for one of them? I don't need a job.
    Oh bullshit. I've provided sources for my argument and proof. And don't demand proof, when there is NOT any for the argument you have posted. Americans would never take those jobs. And if one wants people to get off government welfare tell those in republican states.



    California... the state with the most undocumented immigrants... actually gets less than it puts in the US federal system. Most federal government money goes to republican states so it can pay welfare there.

    Get something real and not the same old generic regurgitated falsehoods.

  25. #275

    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    What the heck? What's the point and where is the evidence? I'm not talking about El Salvador. By the way, anyone could bring up Costa Rica and render your whole argument moot. Nobody cares about the xenophobia that is evident in that country. People made the same old ridiculous claims about Italy. Why allow those Italians into the US? They are from a country that has an unstable government and periods of dictatorship! Italians at one point were discriminated the same way... even called wops and dirty.

    Same f-king shit, different day.

    English speaking countries are not that stable. I would choose a Latino one any day. They have more culture... and nobody cares what country one would choose to go to. Get something real please.

    Costa Rica has been democratic for a very long time and doesn't even have a standing military. They abolished it. Maybe the US could learn a thing or two.
    You cheerfully predicted that the US would be another Latino majority country, so my questions are appropriate. It is easy to to say you would choose a Latino country. But, given the choice, you did not. You actions belie your words.

  26. #276
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    You cheerfully predicted that the US would be another Latino majority country, so my questions are appropriate. It is easy to to say you would choose a Latino country. But, given the choice, you did not. You actions belie your words.
    Oh total nonsense. There is actual proof for what I have said. I would given the choice, and look at where I live... so spare me this bullshit. That attempt to pick at my credibility is so weak and pathetic.

    http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/new...s-bureau-says/

    Such a weak, feeble personal attack... seeing as those weak, xenophobic attacks are TYPICAL. And what fucking questions? I didn't see any valid ones.

  27. #277

    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    Oh total nonsense. There is actual proof for what I have said. I would given the choice, and look at where I live... so spare me this bullshit. That attempt to pick at my credibility is so weak and pathetic.

    http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/new...s-bureau-says/

    In California whites already lost the majority status.

    Such a weak, feeble personal attack... seeing as those weak, xenophobic attacks are TYPICAL. And what fucking questions? I didn't see any valid ones.
    You and all those untold millions of Latinos are here because you fled your failed Latino countries in favor of an infinitely more successful English speaking country. You actions belie your words.

  28. #278

    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    You and all those untold millions of Latinos are here because you fled your failed Latino countries in favor of an infinitely more successful English speaking country. You actions belie your words.
    Racist comment.

  29. #279
    JUB Addict maxpowr9's Avatar
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyBob View Post
    Racist comment.
    There is some validity to his comment like any racist stereotype but it is still uncalled.

  30. #280

    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by maxpowr9 View Post
    There is some validity to his comment like any racist stereotype but it is still uncalled.
    Spin it all you want, but it was a racist comment. He makes them all the time.

  31. #281

    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    No, Latino is not a race. It is a culture. Giancarlo started the discussion when he first predicted the triumph of the Latino invasion. Why did you not object to that as racist? Why is it racist, in your mind, only when it is pro American?

  32. #282
    JUB Addict maxpowr9's Avatar
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    No, Latino is not a race. It is a culture. Giancarlo started the discussion when he first predicted the triumph of the Latino invasion. Why did you not object to that as racist? Why is it racist, in your mind, only when it is pro American?
    I am still butthurt over the fact that I got a 3 on the AP Spanish language exam and did not count towards college credit.

    ¿Está contento?

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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    . Americans would never take those jobs. .
    Your often shown chart is merely an attempt at dissembling and has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
    It's just the same old nonsense about which state gives more than it gets and had zero to do with anything.

  34. #284
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    You and all those untold millions of Latinos are here because you fled your failed Latino countries in favor of an infinitely more successful English speaking country. You actions belie your words.
    Absolutely racist. I never told anything about my own background. My actions? I'm sorry but stay away from there. I do not tolerate that type of bullshit.

  35. #285
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    No, Latino is not a race. It is a culture. Giancarlo started the discussion when he first predicted the triumph of the Latino invasion. Why did you not object to that as racist? Why is it racist, in your mind, only when it is pro American?
    I'm sorry I made someone tremble in their shoes... like I did with the other right wingers in this thread. There is no "Latino invasion". Not anymore than there was an Irish or Italian one. Get real please. It is definitely racist, and xenophobic. What is pro-American? None of the nonsense espoused by the right wingers here is.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Your often shown chart is merely an attempt at dissembling and has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
    It's just the same old nonsense about which state gives more than it gets and had zero to do with anything.
    Sorry the facts hurt... and some can't handle the truth. I've brought up numerous links and as usual you bring up no links or sources at all.

  36. #286
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    You and all those untold millions of Latinos are here because you fled your failed Latino countries in favor of an infinitely more successful English speaking country. You actions belie your words.
    You mean like how Germans, Irish, Italians, English, Scandinavians, Russians, Ukranians, European Jews, Dutch and every manner of European working class people fled the cesspools of their home countries during the industrial revolution?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    No, Latino is not a race. It is a culture. Giancarlo started the discussion when he first predicted the triumph of the Latino invasion. Why did you not object to that as racist? Why is it racist, in your mind, only when it is pro American?
    If you want to get technical there are no "races" at all, only the human race. But for the purposes of political discussion, and race in that context is always socially constructed, they are a race or a separate ethnic group treated as a stand alone race on virtually any official form today in the United States.

    So what's your point?

  37. #287
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post

    So what's your point?
    There isn't one. The poster has attacked me personally numerous times... and little is done.

    I'm reporting the post. What he said seriously crossed the fucking line. And if I must I will take this to the mod section.

  38. #288

    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    If you want to get technical there are no "races" at all, only the human race. But for the purposes of political discussion, and race in that context is always socially constructed, they are a race or a separate ethnic group treated as a stand alone race on virtually any official form today in the United States.

    So what's your point?
    No, there is a difference between race and culture. When you call everything racist with which you disagree, you trivialize actual racism. If everything is racism, it becomes unimportant.
    Last edited by CTF; February 8th, 2013 at 07:09 PM. Reason: repaired quote brackets

  39. #289
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    The problem here is right wingers are scared that they are becoming an ever decreasing minority of the constituency
    I bet, in a parallel universe where Mexicans (the most-blamed nationality) and other Latinos overwhelmingly vote instead for Republicans, the Republicans would be welcoming them with open arms. Not only would it allow the corporations to run roughshod over the workers by paying near-slave wages to more and more immigrants and thus allow their campaign contributors to really roll in the profits by cutting costs and eliminating all benefits, but the Republicans would get more and more votes. A sure win-win for the Republicans...but not in THIS particular parallel universe that we are familiar with.

    Of course, in that other parallel universe, it would then be the DEMOCRATS screaming about immigration reform and restrictions, Papers-Please laws, etc. as much as possible. Both Parties indeed have vested interests in this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    If I were emigrating, I would want to go an English speaking country, UK, Canada, Australia, NZ, US. Like you, I would not choose a Latino one.
    For those of us whose first/main language is English, many of us are going to TEND to prefer an English-speaking destination. (I've seen some reference to you possibly being an immigrant in some way, but I'm not entirely clear on that, therefore I'm also not 100% sure your first language is English, but I feel pretty confident that it is.) Yes, my first language is English. No other language even CLOSE. Spanish is the only other language I know more about than what turns up in crossword puzzles and such, and my knowledge of Spanish is only a tiny fraction of my English knowledge.

    As such, if I were to move to another nation/country, all of my top choices would be ones where English is spoken, at least enough to get along in daily life.

    If my first (or equal) language was Spanish instead, it's very possible that I would have, by now, started working ACTIVELY on moving to another country - probably Uruguay or Chile.

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    If they are caught they do get penalized in this system. But I think the system should actually make it easier for people to come in and go through the processes, including apply for a green card or citizenship if possible. My friend who was brought here when he was very young (I think 11 years old, but I need to ask him again) needs to have the ability to apply in a more efficient way. The permit law (deferred action) that was signed in is going to be a help, but he's still waiting to hear back from the government... and they said they received his application back in November.

    It's not an easy task, nor is it affordable for many to apply. Even the deferred action was far from cheap.
    Well, if they got his application in November, he will probably get his approval in 2029 or something.

    I still see NO reason why the approval process should take more than a month, with computers being EVERYWHERE!!!!!
    Last edited by frankfrank; February 8th, 2013 at 06:47 PM.
    "All legal U. S. residents who are 18 years or older, shall have an unconditional right to vote." - 28th Amendment, US Constitution?
    "But, hey, who cares about women and their rights when the religious liberty of a nationwide chain of arts and crafts stores is at stake?" - Daily Kos, 30 June 2014
    "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony

  40. #290
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    No, there is a difference between race and culture. When you call everything racist with which you disagree, you trivialize actual racism. If everything is racism, it becomes unimportant.
    More xenophobic ranting without any real proof behind it. And the attack against me personally is beyond racism... it's just general nastiness. Shameful!

    By the way many Latino countries are doing FINE economically and growing strongly.

    Here are some examples:

    http://www.bnamericas.com/news/techn...low-inflation5 - Colombia GDP Growth: +4.5%

    http://www.foxbusiness.com/news/2013...owth-around-3/ - Brazil is expecting a rebound in growth to +3% with unemployment at 4.9%. Gee... maybe we should look into what the Workers Party is doing to keep unemployment low.

  41. #291
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    No, there is a difference between race and culture. When you call everything racist with which you disagree, you trivialize actual racism. If everything is racism, it becomes unimportant.
    But that isn't what's going on here. What's going on here is using code talk to attack the "culture" when you're really attacking an ethnic group of people. That's been the code language of all racists ever since the discreditation of biological racism after WWII. You can always spot a racist by taking their attacks on a group's "culture" and simply replacing it with their "race" and it would look exactly like what racists would have said in the 1930's or 1940's. Whether it's saying their "culture" produces more crime or their "culture" causes a lower education or whatever else.

  42. #292
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by frankfrank View Post
    Well, if they got his application in November, he will probably get his approval in 2029 or something.

    I still see NO reason why the approval process should take more than a month, with computers being EVERYWHERE!!!!!
    They are faster for others, but they have been slow for him. I don't know why. He submitted substantial evidence and went through the process. They took a month for some, but the government isn't consistent in processing applications.

  43. #293

    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    False on all counts. I have provided solid evidence and proof showing how they are essential. We're talking about $2.6 trillion over the next ten years that would be wiped out. It means absolutely everything. The economy would fall back into a deep recession. Having a contraction in the GDP at that level would lead to a severe recession. sending people back to where they came from is nothing more than a xenophobic response and isn't how the real world works.

    Better to have a nation with more open borders... a nation with closed borders is a dying nation. The Chinese closed off their civilization and it led once great Empires to total decline.

    And yes, plenty of other arguments matter... just not the one that you have posted here which is absolutely meaningless.

    The problem here is right wingers are scared that they are becoming an ever decreasing minority of the constituency. Their screwball candidates can no longer win. It's a scary prospect. Romney won the same percentage of white voters as Reagan did... one won in a landslide and the other lost big time. Scary for the right wing these days... not like I give a shit. I hope this nation becomes 40-50% Latino in 20 years, and the Republicans go out the same way as the Whigs. Yeah, all the brown people hating the GOP does will go out the window.
    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    But that isn't what's going on here. What's going on here is using code talk to attack the "culture" when you're really attacking an ethnic group of people. That's been the code language of all racists ever since the discreditation of biological racism after WWII. You can always spot a racist by taking their attacks on a group's "culture" and simply replacing it with their "race" and it would look exactly like what racists would have said in the 1930's or 1940's. Whether it's saying their "culture" produces more crime or their "culture" causes a lower education or whatever else.
    Hogwash. While Giancarlo is applauding the impending Latino majority, you, and he, are attempting to foreclose discussion of it by labeling the contrary view as racism.

  44. #294
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    Hogwash. While Giancarlo is applauding the impending Latino majority, you, and he, are attempting to foreclose discussion of it by labeling the contrary view as racism.
    The response provided to my post is true hogwash... or better yet, total bullshit and a personal attack on me as a person. Don't change the subject when caught red handed.

  45. #295
    Suck my dick, Scalia! FuryOfFirestorm's Avatar
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    No, Latino is not a race. It is a culture. Giancarlo started the discussion when he first predicted the triumph of the Latino invasion. Why did you not object to that as racist? Why is it racist, in your mind, only when it is pro American?
    Giancarlo predicted the rise of the careers of Jennifer Lopez, Ricky Martin, Enrique Iglesias, and Marc Anthony in 1999? That is AMAZING.

  46. #296
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    TIME OUT!

    I've had similar discussions privately with almost every poster who's made the past half dozen or so posts here.

    I've even tossed a few infractions in both directions.

    Each of you know who you are.

    But if some of y'all are going to Post Report, then defend after the fact, there's not much that I can do as a Moderator other than to delete posts, close the thread, or ban and/or infract posters.

    <sigh>

    To both sides of this debate, much of what has been shared is the reality of the dialogue on this issue.

    At least as I personally see it here in Texas.

    There are not ABSOLUTES!

    From where I come from Hispanic Immigrants are migrating here, and seem to be pissed that we're not doing MORE to accommodate their being here!

    Including learning their shit language, known here in Texas as "Mexican."

    When most Hispanic Immigrants from Central and South America speak true Castilian Spanish.

    My response?

    If I moved to Mexico City, I'm willing to bet that I wouldn't find anything written in English, I wouldn't have any benefits, and would be mocked and ridiculed for not being able to speak "Mexican."

    As opposed to my trips to Columbia, Venezuala, Hondorus, and Chile where my attempts at Hable Espanol were welcomed.

    So yeah, there's some historical "racists" divisions between the Americano and Mexicano boarders, so let's not overlook those realities as well.

    Just saying...
    Last edited by CTF; February 8th, 2013 at 07:27 PM.
    Never regret anything, because in that moment it's exactly what you wanted.

  47. #297
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    That was a personal attack. I did not make any towards the other poster. I'm just asking something be done...

    And people in Mexico speak Spanish. They fully understand me just fine and I do speak Spanish from Spain. I don't get the point of that comment at all. And asides from that the Spanish that they speak in Mexico isn't any less or inferior. Just like the Portuguese spoken in Brazil as compared to Portugal. Just different. That's all.

  48. #298
    JUB Addict maxpowr9's Avatar
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Donde hay fe,
    Hay amore.
    Donde hay amore,
    Hay Pas,
    Donde hay pas,
    Esta Dios.
    Donde esta Dios,
    No falta nada.

    Amen

    PS: Just sayin'

  49. #299
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by maxpowr9 View Post
    Donde hay fe,
    Hay amore.
    Donde hay amore,
    Hay Pas,
    Donde hay pas,
    Esta Dios.
    Donde esta Dios,
    No falta nada.


    Amen

    PS: Just sayin'
    Amen!

    There seems to be a lot missing in this debate.
    Never regret anything, because in that moment it's exactly what you wanted.

  50. #300
    JUB Addict maxpowr9's Avatar
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    Re: Ann Coulter Rips Marco Rubio Over Inmigration Reform.

    Quote Originally Posted by centexfarmer View Post
    Amen!

    There seems to be a lot missing in this debate.
    Yeah, te doy las gracias a la me escuela secundaría por las oraciónes.

    It has be subjugated to me that in fact, the "Español" I learned was "Spanish" and not "Mexican".

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