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    Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    "U.S. economic momentum screeched to a halt in the final months of 2012, as businesses pared back inventories and government spending fell sharply, while lawmakers struggled to reach a deal on tax increases and budget cuts.

    Source Link: http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2013/...dly-contracts/



    The nation's gross domestic product shrank for the first time in three and a half years during the fourth quarter, declining at an annual rate of 0.1% between October and December, the Commerce Department said Wednesday."


    You can't really spin this to make it look like it's a good thing. Apologists will say that the year's growth rate of 2.2% is better than the 2011 rate of 1.8% and also blame Congress for not passing new laws. However, the wealth and health of the USA is in the doldrums. We are failing. We are becoming Europe.

    No talk in DC about jobs -- only talk about social issues.



    Last edited by opinterph; January 30th, 2013 at 07:49 PM. Reason: added quote tags and additional source link

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    I suspect it to get worse as more companies cut hours to 28 per week to avoid Obamacare insurance requirements . Less money being brought home with rising costs is depressing. And payroll tax has gone back up to the old 7.65% (6.2 ss 1.45 mc). So you're making less even if your hours haven't been cut.
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Anent the economy, one recalls Mark Twain

    The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    The economy did not die...it retracted. Big difference. During the fourth quarter, the nation was subjected to the "doom and gloom" rhetoric of the so-called fiscal cliff. That's not spin. It's a fact. The economy responded. I believe that quarter will be negated by a robust first quarter. Yesterday the Dow nearly hit 14,000. That's hardly representative of an economy that died.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    They cut defense spending that was the issue.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    while lawmakers struggled to reach a deal on tax increases and budget cuts.
    Hey Jack, did you miss that part^?

    Also, did you miss the fact that your party toyed with letting the country spin into oblivion rather than come to the table like adults and negotiate until the 11th hour?

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Hey Jack, did you miss that part^?

    Also, did you miss the fact that your party toyed with letting the country spin into oblivion rather than come to the table like adults and negotiate until the 11th hour? M
    Old Chinese quotation: "Statistics never lie, but liars use statistics"

  8. #8

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Springer, thanks for being it to everyone's attention just how damaging republican obstructionism is to the country. Your post is proof republicans are out to destroy the country in their pathetic efforts to get at the President of the United States.

    Cutting government spending and the fear of republicans sending us over the "fiscal cliff" is what caused the slow growth.

    Thanks again for clearing up just how bad republicans are bad for the country. They don't talk about jobs jobs jobs, but only abortion, rape, immigration and them pesky homosexuals. We must vote out all republicans before they destroy us completely.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Retractions like this can be the prelude to improved growth, as companies make themselves more flexible -- so there's no reason to think the sky is falling; wait two quarters and then draw conclusions.

    But it's evident that a do-nothing Congress, specifically the House, isn't helping. Employers don't know from one month to the next what the Republicans will turn into a crisis, threatening disruption that will alter interest rates, or where government cuts will strike next, making it impossible to determine what future plans should look like.

    One of the best things Obama could do at this point would be to issue an executive order putting a freeze on the introduction of new regulations. If a law Congress has passed requires a new regulation, let a bipartisan congressional committee determine what it should be (at least that way they'd be doing something useful).

    But instead of being practical and effective, Congress is going to waste time over feel-good measures about guns, that won't go anywhere or accomplish anything if they did.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  10. #10

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    I'll start believing this when I see long lines of US citizens waiting in line outside Mexican consulates trying in vain to get a visa.
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP


    Click image for larger version. 

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    With that in mind, Jack, I believe you're engaging in:

    Click image for larger version. 

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  12. #12

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    ^it's the same old same old..... desperately trying to paint the Obama Presidency as a failure.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    ... even at the cost of the facts.
    He

    Here are a few facts for you. The Obama recession is going to get worse in 2013, as big chains contemplate closing hundreds of stores. Nobody knows how many stores will actually be closed, but the numbers being tossed about are significant:

    http://247wallst.com/2013/01/29/eigh...e-most-stores/


    Barnes and Noble 190-240 stores could be closed
    Office Depot 125-150
    J C Penney 275-350
    Sears/K-Mart 275-350
    Best Buy 200-250
    Gamestop 500-600
    Office Max 150-175
    Radio Shack 450-550


    US Economy shrank in 4th Quarter

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...time-since-09/

  14. #14

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    He

    Here are a few facts for you. The Obama recession is going to get worse in 2013, as big chains contemplate closing hundreds of stores. Nobody knows how many stores will actually be closed, but the numbers being tossed about are significant:

    http://247wallst.com/2013/01/29/eigh...e-most-stores/


    Barnes and Noble 190-240 stores could be closed
    Office Depot 125-150
    J C Penney 275-350
    Sears/K-Mart 275-350
    Best Buy 200-250
    Gamestop 500-600
    Office Max 150-175
    Radio Shack 450-550


    US Economy shrank in 4th Quarter

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...time-since-09/
    Appears the Bush Depression which President Obama pulled us out of may be made worse by Republican Obstructionism. Republicans are also notorious for closing plants, shipping jobs overseas, creating minimum wage jobs with zero benefits and no health care so the 1% can have more profits to hide in overseas accounts.

    But I'm convinced the republicans will fail with this attempt too. They haven't been too successful lately in any endeavor.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    There's a very specific reason GameStop is failing en masse and it has *nothing* to do with the economy. The videogame industry proved itself virtually recessionproof through the worst of the collapse anyway.

    It's because this is an age of no-disc, no-box digital distribution and purchase downloading of software, and GameStop relies on trading hard copies of games and used hard copies of games. It's having its niche sold out from under it by digital distribution directly from the distributor or developer to the end consumer. That's only going to get worse and they are an extinct model of business waiting to die.

    And that's just one example. Many of those big, overextended chains are struggling for reasons that have nothing to do with the economy. I wonder how many RadioShacks are suffering because of Best Buy, or how many of those other stores are suffering because of Wal*Mart.

    Best Buy btw while being overextended and having huge overhead is suffering the same thing I mentioned above... half of a Best Buy is the music and movies and videogames section and that's all going digital. People don't need to drive to an electronics store and browse for an hour to get movies, songs or games anymore, so in large part, they don't. People are only going there for the higher end electronics hardware which yes, when money is tight people are going to pass on a brand new flatscreen plasma TV or a new laptop.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Reardon post a list of well known long term struggling retailers and automatically cuts out the lead from his own link in favor of blaming it on Obama. [Text: Removed] many of these retailers are struggling for a decade or more. Mitt's own Staples and sports authority should be on the list too, if he was President today it wouldn't change much for these retailers.

    Book stores like CD/record stores are dead in the water because of technology and this.


    For many retailers, the sales situation is so bad that it is not a question of whether they will cut stores, but when and how many. Most recently, Barnes & Noble Inc. (NYSE: BKS) decided it had too many stores to maintain profits. Its CEO recently said he plans to close as many as a third of the company’s locations.

    Several of America’s largest retailers have been battered for years. Most have been undermined by a combination of e-commerce competition, often from Amazon.com Inc. (NASDAQ: AMZN) and more successful retailers in the same areas. Borders and Circuit City are two of the best examples of retailers that were destroyed by larger bricks-and-mortar competition and consumers transitioning to online shopping. These large, badly damaged retailers could not possibly keep their stores open.

    Read more: Eight Retailers That Will Close the Most Stores - 24/7 Wall St. http://247wallst.com/2013/01/29/eigh...#ixzz2JUfvB8Y2
    Last edited by opinterph; January 30th, 2013 at 07:50 PM. Reason: removed indirect personal insult

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by vulgar_newcomer View Post
    . [Text: Removed] many of these retailers are struggling for a decade or more. s.
    [Text: Removed] Obama has done absolutely nothing to help the economy.
    He's too busy looking for photo ops and demeaning himself and the office appearing on talk shows etc.
    Last edited by opinterph; January 30th, 2013 at 07:52 PM. Reason: removed verbiage quoted from another poster; removed indirect personal insult

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    ^ He's not only supposed to do that, he's supposed to do that while having absolutely everything filibustered, by a GOP that believes cutting spending (everywhere) is the answer.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    He

    Here are a few facts for you. The Obama recession is going to get worse in 2013, as big chains contemplate closing hundreds of stores. Nobody knows how many stores will actually be closed, but the numbers being tossed about are significant:

    http://247wallst.com/2013/01/29/eigh...e-most-stores/


    Barnes and Noble 190-240 stores could be closed 2012 CEO Compensation: $10 million
    Office Depot 125-150 2011 CEO Compensation: $2.7 million
    J C Penney 275-350 2011 CEO Compensation: $53.3 million
    Sears/K-Mart 275-350 2011 CEO Compensation: $10 million
    Best Buy 200-250 2012 CEO Compensation: ~$18 million
    Gamestop 500-600 2011 CEO Compensation: $3.2 million
    Office Max 150-175 2010 CEO Compensation: $12.9 million
    Radio Shack 450-550 2011 CEO Compensation: $5.9 million


    US Economy shrank in 4th Quarter

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...time-since-09/
    Went ahead and added some additional info there. They don't pay their CEOs like they are struggling companies. The fact of the matter is that the President has no control over internal corporate mismanagement and lack of economical responsibility. Most corporations are sitting on tons of cash that they aren't investing. They refuse to raise wages. They hire the minimum number of people to get by. They do all kinds of personnel and accounting moves to avoid having to pay people benefits. They move jobs and manufacturing overseas to save money so the CEOs can get paid like noted above. Corporate greed is one of the largest contributors to our lack of good economic performance.

    The other major contributor to the lack of good economic performance is the inability of our Congress to get anything done. When we have a new self-made fiscal crisis every 2 or 3 months, there is absolutely no certainty in the market and thus people hold back investing, businesses don't hire or expand, and people save instead of spend money because no one knows what the next emergency stopgap legislation will bring. There is some blame to be had by all parties, but I would place a lion's share of the blame on the Republicans who have been (and continue to be) obstructionists who have a no-compromise, my-way-or-the-highway mentality.

    You can try to blame the President all you want, but there is absolutely nothing he can do by himself to affect the way the economy is going. Now if you're suggesting that Congress should give him the authority to command businesses to hire, limit corporate profits, set the price of gas, groceries, and other necessary commodities, set minimum standards for worker salaries and benefits, and directly tie the increase in CEO and executive salary to that of the rest of the workforce, then I say let's get to it and then, maybe, you will be correct in placing your blame squarely on the President.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    He

    Here are a few facts for you. The Obama recession is going to get worse in 2013, as big chains contemplate closing hundreds of stores. Nobody knows how many stores will actually be closed, but the numbers being tossed about are significant:

    http://247wallst.com/2013/01/29/eigh...e-most-stores/


    Barnes and Noble 190-240 stores could be closed
    Office Depot 125-150
    J C Penney 275-350
    Sears/K-Mart 275-350
    Best Buy 200-250
    Gamestop 500-600
    Office Max 150-175
    Radio Shack 450-550


    US Economy shrank in 4th Quarter

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...time-since-09/
    d'uh.

    Best buy, Radio shack Gamestop and Barnes and Noble are closing becuase their day is done following them overbuilding like mad a decade ago. The shift to online shopping also is affecting Penney and Sears...for example...we now purchase over 50% of all our household goods from these types of stores on line.

    The e world is our shopping mall.

    Oh...and Jack?

    You should only fucking dream of being Germany.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    [Text: Removed] Obama has done absolutely nothing to help the economy.
    He's too busy looking for photo ops and demeaning himself and the office appearing on talk shows etc.
    There is no point in throwing more money after bad money. Any sensible businessperson would realize that. Hell, as a republican capitalist, this would be the "free-market" dictating demand.

    The only real variable that remains untested is when Obamacare is fully implemented, how many service companies will cut hours to below the requirement for health insurance and force many employees onto state run healthcare. The hardest hit people will be the ones who work in retail and food/beverage. If Mass Health is any indication of how bad other states will be, I feel bad for people in "red" states then.

    From The Globe today...

    According to an editorial in The Wall Street Journal last week, health care is expected to account for 41 percent of the state budget in 2013, compared with 23 percent in 2000 and 25 percent in 2006. In real terms Massachusetts’ annual health care budget is 15 percent larger than it was in 2007, according to the Journal, while transportation plunged by 22 percent, public safety by 17 percent, and education by 7 percent.
    Last edited by opinterph; January 30th, 2013 at 07:54 PM. Reason: removed verbiage quoted from another poster

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by maxpowr9 View Post
    There is no point in throwing more money after bad money. Any sensible businessperson would realize that. Hell, as a republican capitalist, this would be the "free-market" dictating demand.

    The only real variable that remains untested is when Obamacare is fully implemented, how many service companies will cut hours to below the requirement for health insurance and force many employees onto state run healthcare. The hardest hit people will be the ones who work in retail and food/beverage. If Mass Health is any indication of how bad other states will be, I feel bad for people in "red" states then.
    Isn't it amazing how those free market platitudes evaporate when overbloated, badly managed nearly-too-big-to-fail companies or industries are about to collapse from their own failure to compete properly and adapt to a changing market?

    Then suddenly it's the government's responsibility, in particular Obama's personally, to make sure these failing companies succeed, from the mouths of these same people who parrot free market nonsense in any other context.

    Btw, GameStop is going to fail absolutely no matter what Obama does. Short of him signing an illegal executive order giving them money or government subsidies or requiring people to buy there, it is dead. And the huge overextended big-box brick-and-mortar model in general just isn't what's competitive today either, in regards to everything else on the list.

    Let it fail. It will make room for newer, more innovative businesses doing it better.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Isn't it amazing how those free market platitudes evaporate when overbloated, badly managed nearly-too-big-to-fail companies or industries are about to collapse from their own failure to compete properly and adapt to a changing market?

    Then suddenly it's the government's responsibility, in particular Obama's personally, to make sure these failing companies succeed, from the mouths of these same people who parrot free market nonsense in any other context.

    Btw, GameStop is going to fail absolutely no matter what Obama does. Short of him signing an illegal executive order giving them money or government subsidies or requiring people to buy there, it is dead. And the huge overextended big-box brick-and-mortar model in general just isn't what's competitive today either, in regards to everything else on the list.

    Let it fail. It will make room for newer, more innovative businesses doing it better.
    Absolutely agree. Republicans are the biggest socialists when it's about government bailing out failing corporations.

    I would be sad to see GameStop go I still hope for some boutique version of both game and movie/tv hard copies retail, because I am thoroughly repulsed by digital distribution. Or rather, I don't mind it at all, but I want to own my movies and games as physical objects. But I don't mind seeing them as only collector's editions. Part of the reason for the death of this particular industry is not only the advent of digital transfer, but also the fact that regular editions of everything became completely barebone. If one wants ANYthing - as much as a fucking booklet - one needs a collector's edition, full of crap you don't need...
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Isn't it amazing how those free market platitudes evaporate when overbloated, badly managed nearly-too-big-to-fail companies or industries are about to collapse from their own failure to compete properly and adapt to a changing market?

    Then suddenly it's the government's responsibility, in particular Obama's personally, to make sure these failing companies succeed, from the mouths of these same people who parrot free market nonsense in any other context.

    Btw, GameStop is going to fail absolutely no matter what Obama does. Short of him signing an illegal executive order giving them money or government subsidies or requiring people to buy there, it is dead. And the huge overextended big-box brick-and-mortar model in general just isn't what's competitive today either, in regards to everything else on the list.

    Let it fail. It will make room for newer, more innovative businesses doing it better.
    TBH, the video game industry is ripe for a collapse and many gamers do wish for that to happen so better companies come along instead of the crap spewed forth by EAware and Actablizzard. Hell, Nintendo posted a yearly loss for the second time in-a-row. Sony is up to 5 years in successive loses and Microsoft is not looking too good either atm. BTW Congress, violent video games do not cause mass shootings.

  25. #25

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Wow! This thread must have hit a big nerve.

    I did not mention Obama or blame him -- those who jumped on might want to again read what I wrote.

    If the cause is purely because of the draw down in Afghanistan what happens when we really cut out the war expense? Obama, like Bush, has not budgeted that expense either so it's not money that can be spent elsewhere -- it's savings on not borrow money.

    The usual blame on Bush and republicans .... you guys might want to admit that Obama owns the economy now or he never will. If the economy ever improves -- I'm going to push the fact that you promote the republicans are owning the economy.

    Time to grow up and accept responsibility.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by maxpowr9 View Post
    TBH, the video game industry is ripe for a collapse and many gamers do wish for that to happen so better companies come along instead of the crap spewed forth by EAware and Actablizzard. Hell, Nintendo posted a yearly loss for the second time in-a-row. Sony is up to 5 years in successive loses and Microsoft is not looking too good either atm. BTW Congress, violent video games do not cause mass shootings.
    Yes, I agree with EA and Acti-Blizzard being big uncreative monsters that spew out crap, and I'd love to see them fail so that indie devs have some room to gain marketshare. But GameStop is failing for a totally different reason than the quality of games being put out, rather they are based on an obsolete business model of brick and mortar sales of hard copies of games that is increasingly going away and will be completely gone probably in the next decade.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Wow! This thread must have hit a big nerve.

    I did not mention Obama or blame him -- those who jumped on might want to again read what I wrote.

    If the cause is purely because of the draw down in Afghanistan what happens when we really cut out the war expense? Obama, like Bush, has not budgeted that expense either so it's not money that can be spent elsewhere -- it's savings on not borrow money.

    The usual blame on Bush and republicans .... you guys might want to admit that Obama owns the economy now or he never will. If the economy ever improves -- I'm going to push the fact that you promote the republicans are owning the economy.

    Time to grow up and accept responsibility.
    Jack when the economy collapsed under Bush it was in response to specific deregulatory and economic policy decisions the GOP directly supported.

    When you point out a small dip in an overall trend of recovery under Obama and try to paint it like something he personally did "tanked the economy" no one takes you seriously, nor should they.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Jack when the economy collapsed under Bush it was in response to specific deregulatory and economic policy decisions the GOP directly supported.
    Which started under Clinton mind you. Clinton could easily have vetoed the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act but he didn't.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Wow! This thread must have hit a big nerve.

    I did not mention Obama or blame him -- those who jumped on might want to again read what I wrote.

    If the cause is purely because of the draw down in Afghanistan what happens when we really cut out the war expense? Obama, like Bush, has not budgeted that expense either so it's not money that can be spent elsewhere -- it's savings on not borrow money.
    Did you just immigrate to this Country?

    I seem to recall Bush 43 coming into office in 2001 with a $236.2 BILLION DOLLAR "Clinton Surplus."

    See FactCheck.org.

    The Clinton years showed the effects of a large tax increase that Clinton pushed through in his first year, and that Republicans incorrectly claim is the "largest tax increase in history." It fell almost exclusively on upper-income taxpayers. Clinton’s fiscal 1994 budget also contained some spending restraints. An equally if not more powerful influence was the booming economy and huge gains in the stock markets, the so-called dot-com bubble, which brought in hundreds of millions in unanticipated tax revenue from taxes on capital gains and rising salaries.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer
    The usual blame on Bush and republicans .... you guys might want to admit that Obama owns the economy now or he never will. If the economy ever improves -- I'm going to push the fact that you promote the republicans are owning the economy.

    Time to grow up and accept responsibility.
    Better yet, time to check back into reality!

    Costco and Sam's Club are selling dried rice and beans in bulk, and fire arms and ammunition are a sellers market!

    The rich are getting richer, and the poor are becoming MORE POOR, and Pollyanna is either Dead, or on life support, depending on one's tax bracket, or their source of news!

    Things couldn't be better!

    Especially if you're a Tea Bagger, or a Republican up for Re-election...in 2014.

    Seriously! Shouldn't we hold off with the partisan dribble at least until then?
    Last edited by CTF; January 30th, 2013 at 05:48 PM.
    Never regret anything, because in that moment it's exactly what you wanted.

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    Suck my dick, Scalia! FuryOfFirestorm's Avatar
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerfan482 View Post
    Went ahead and added some additional info there. They don't pay their CEOs like they are struggling companies. The fact of the matter is that the President has no control over internal corporate mismanagement and lack of economical responsibility. Most corporations are sitting on tons of cash that they aren't investing. They refuse to raise wages. They hire the minimum number of people to get by. They do all kinds of personnel and accounting moves to avoid having to pay people benefits. They move jobs and manufacturing overseas to save money so the CEOs can get paid like noted above. Corporate greed is one of the largest contributors to our lack of good economic performance.
    ...but...but...they're JOB CREATORS!


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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    I've never seen Jack_Springer so gleeful. The economy "dies," eh? That's what sick about Republicans. They'd dance in glee over the death of this country if it meant they could blame a Democrat. The economy retracted due to government cuts that you support. Contrary to your view of the world, government jobs and infrastructure also plays a major part in driving the economy. That's why if the fiscal cliff went into effect, the entire amount of federal government cuts would swing the U.S. economy into another recession.


    For the record I find this post applicable to the discussion of the thread. The hyperbole of word choice here more than justifies the suspicion directed towards the OP for starting it.
    #439th oldest member on JUB.

  31. #31

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Another on topic post here:

    Whenever there's news that isn't so great, Springer is the first one to report on it. When something great happens the OP ignores it. JB18 is right... the OP is gleeful when there's news like this. Anything to bash the President of the United States.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    He

    Here are a few facts for you. The Obama recession is going to get worse in 2013, as big chains contemplate closing hundreds of stores. Nobody knows how many stores will actually be closed, but the numbers being tossed about are significant:

    http://247wallst.com/2013/01/29/eigh...e-most-stores/


    Barnes and Noble 190-240 stores could be closed
    Office Depot 125-150
    J C Penney 275-350
    Sears/K-Mart 275-350
    Best Buy 200-250
    Gamestop 500-600
    Office Max 150-175
    Radio Shack 450-550


    US Economy shrank in 4th Quarter

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...time-since-09/
    It could be that the stores are closing because they are under-performing in the area they are in. Gamestop (for example since it's been brought up several times) is still opening new locations and they just opened a new store in King George, Virginia not that long ago.

    And for the reasons mentioned to as well, competition and such.
    I may be bad, but I'm perfectly good at it.



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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DowJones-001.png 
Views:	242 
Size:	6.7 KB 
ID:	924373
    The link below provides a more dramatic view of the same data from 2000 forward:


    Some financial experts suggest there is an inverse relationship between the major stock indexes and the US Dollar index (DXY). When the Dollar index declines, stock values tend to inflate. The DXY trend line over the last year is positive, while the moving average has essentially reached the overall average associated with the same period. The DXY trend line during the period of the entire Obama Administration is negative and its moving average is now roughly equivalent to the overall average associated with the most recent year.

    It is my personal opinion that what happens next in the US economy is more determinative than what has happened recently.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    He

    Here are a few facts for you. The Obama recession is going to get worse in 2013, as big chains contemplate closing hundreds of stores. Nobody knows how many stores will actually be closed, but the numbers being tossed about are significant:

    http://247wallst.com/2013/01/29/eigh...e-most-stores/


    Barnes and Noble 190-240 stores could be closed
    Office Depot 125-150
    J C Penney 275-350
    Sears/K-Mart 275-350
    Best Buy 200-250
    Gamestop 500-600
    Office Max 150-175
    Radio Shack 450-550
    Bricks and mortar retail stores are collapsing (financially) around the world. It is driven by the changing face of retail: the internet. Personally, other than food and clothing, I rarely purchase anything in a physical store any more. In my city of Sydney, there is just one major book retailer left in the main shopping district downtown, and it is half the size it used to be. The largest electronics chain in Australia is rapidly contracting, and their movie and music racks have been cut to one third of their size in most stores. The Australian K-Mart chain has morphed from a mid-quality department store to a very-low-budget Walmart-style Chinese plastic outlet chain, in an effort to compete with online competition.

    It's unfortunate that it's happening in many ways, but it's just global reality. It's not because of any government action or inaction, it's just the free market in action. You should be celebrating it for that reason - supply and demand is what makes businesses succeed and fail. Conservatives should applaud the free market at work.
    Last edited by andysayshi; January 30th, 2013 at 08:05 PM.

  35. #35

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    The economy dies in the 4th quarter? Just been reading my automotive news e-mail. Here's a few of today's stories. Don't know if non-subscribers can access the articles but here they are.

    GM to invest $200 million at its powertrain headquarters

    http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...#axzz2JWCd8opt

    Ford sees surge in U.S. hybrid sales on way to annual record

    http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...utonews-daily#

    Chrysler Q4 profits jump 68% to $378 million

    Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...#ixzz2JWEwEGwP

    Yes, the Obama Economy is doing pretty well. Thank the Gods President Obama saved the auto industry instead of letting it go away like republicans wanted.

    It's too bad the massive cut in military spending spending slowed down the economy this quarter.

    Defense spending pullback shrinks U.S. economy in 4Q

    http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/m...hrinks-us.html

    Looks like we're going to have to focus on other technologies, like green energy instead of weapons of mass destruction.

    EPIC FAIL SPRINGER.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP



    ...to corrupt you of your reason, and rob you of your common sense...
    Last edited by CTF; January 30th, 2013 at 08:45 PM.
    Never regret anything, because in that moment it's exactly what you wanted.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by nycguydowntown View Post
    They cut defense spending that was the issue.
    One report I read said it was because the Defense Department simply cut back on spending in anticipation of the spending cuts. Which equated to less government spending.

  38. #38

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Compare all you want -- but Obama is not Clinton. Clinton had the ability to work with the opposition -- not just degrade it in continual campaigns appearances like the jerk that occupies the WH now.



    Quote Originally Posted by centexfarmer View Post
    Did you just immigrate to this Country?

    I seem to recall Bush 43 coming into office in 2001 with a $236.2 BILLION DOLLAR "Clinton Surplus."

    See FactCheck.org.





    Better yet, time to check back into reality!

    Costco and Sam's Club are selling dried rice and beans in bulk, and fire arms and ammunition are a sellers market!

    The rich are getting richer, and the poor are becoming MORE POOR, and Pollyanna is either Dead, or on life support, depending on one's tax bracket, or their source of news!

    Things couldn't be better!

    Especially if you're a Tea Bagger, or a Republican up for Re-election...in 2014.

    Seriously! Shouldn't we hold off with the partisan dribble at least until then?

  39. #39

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post

    It is my personal opinion that what happens next in the US economy is more determinative than what has happened recently.
    What does that mean? The future is what happens next?

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Compare all you want -- but Obama is not Clinton.
    Good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by maxpowr9 View Post
    Which started under Clinton mind you. Clinton could easily have vetoed the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act but he didn't.

  41. #41
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    What does that mean? The future is what happens next?
    That means last quarter's rate of GDP growth is not determinative. (IMO)

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    He

    Here are a few facts for you. The Obama recession is going to get worse in 2013, as big chains contemplate closing hundreds of stores. Nobody knows how many stores will actually be closed, but the numbers being tossed about are significant:

    http://247wallst.com/2013/01/29/eigh...e-most-stores/


    Barnes and Noble 190-240 stores could be closed
    Office Depot 125-150
    J C Penney 275-350
    Sears/K-Mart 275-350
    Best Buy 200-250
    Gamestop 500-600
    Office Max 150-175
    Radio Shack 450-550


    US Economy shrank in 4th Quarter

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...time-since-09/
    Most of those closings are a result of a changing of consumer habits. Barnes and Noble is closing becuase more people are buying books online. Not to mention BN is in the e-book race. They are moving away from Brick and Mortor and putting their money behind the Nook.

    Office Depot and Office Max are quickly becoming irrelevant with the power and efficiency of Amazon.com and other online retailers who can get you more for less with just a click of the mouse.

    Sears/KMart have been closing stores for years. Jeez, Kmart left the Houston market back when the economy was still in good standing. And i'd be blessed to see a Sears in Houston and I think I saw one in LA.

    A lot of those businesses are failing because of failed business models and bad business decisions.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by Apollo View Post
    One report I read said it was because the Defense Department simply cut back on spending in anticipation of the spending cuts. Which equated to less government spending.
    Defense cuts are going to hurt the economy just as other government spending cuts will hurt the economy. However the defense cuts just started and could have in no way made such a huge impact. The Service chiefs announced their freezes only last week and the Navy began firing folks this week.

    Now it could be the defense industry reading the tea leaves and self cutting to prepare for the future. However actual cuts did not begin until recently.

    I find it amusing that most of those companies cited by Henry are Strategic management case studies in the textbook i am using this semester. It was printed in 2011. They are examples of how failure to strategically manage your enterprise results in failure or major loss and restructuring. I am figuring out how to save Best Buy coincidentally. Nothing germane their to the party panty fight but I do find amusing that Obama forced these companies to fail by not being on their boards. So destined to fail that they ended up in a text book printed in 2011.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    i could tell you how to fix the economy, have more elections. fewer republicans = fewer roadblocks to recovery.


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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Do he play by sense of smell?

    I was wrong previously. Defense spending was down 22% from everything I have been reading...... that is what republicans want. More cuts to spending. This is a perfect example of what will happen to the economy.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  46. #46

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Here's more news for those who refuse to accept reality:

    High-end home sales hit record in California
    http://www.mercurynews.com/business/...ord-california

    2012 home sales: Best in 5 years
    http://money.cnn.com/2013/01/22/news...les/index.html

    Damn, this economy is really sputtering and dying, isn't it guys. Want some salt for that egg on your face Springer?

  47. #47

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    OOPS .....I mentioned Chrysler and Ford but forgot to include General Motors.

    North American sales drive GM to $1.48 billion profit
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...nings/1670015/

    10 Reasons GM's Profit Is About To Explode
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmul...ut-to-explode/

    General Motors has pocketed $5 billion in net profit so far this year, $1 billion more than crosstown rival Ford Motor Company
    Damn, this is a dead Obama economy, isn't it?

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    CowBoy Bob: Thanks for this information. It amazes how well the American auto industry has rebounded from near extinction. I can only imagine how much worse the economy would have been had the industry been allowed to go bankrupt.

    I know my partner and I have done what we could for the auto industry--three new Chevys since 2008. And, truly, the best cars we've owned.

  49. #49
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    [Quoted Post: Removed]
    Jobless claims go up and down all of the time. It's a result of the seasonal nature of a lot of jobs out there. You should sit down and have a discussion with the private sector on how job instability hurts the economy.

    As far as the jobs council, I wouldn't call it non-productive since the very article you quoted said that unemployment was 9% when they were established and is now 7.8%. Also, I would read the rest of the article about how the executive order had the sunset in it and how the President never intended for it to be long term.

    [Text: Removed]
    Last edited by opinterph; February 2nd, 2013 at 06:01 PM. Reason: removed verbiage quoted from another poster; removed baiting remark

  50. #50

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Unemployment is up again to 7.9%.

    But I know liberals think that is a good thing.

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