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  1. #1

    Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    "U.S. economic momentum screeched to a halt in the final months of 2012, as businesses pared back inventories and government spending fell sharply, while lawmakers struggled to reach a deal on tax increases and budget cuts.

    Source Link: http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2013/...dly-contracts/



    The nation's gross domestic product shrank for the first time in three and a half years during the fourth quarter, declining at an annual rate of 0.1% between October and December, the Commerce Department said Wednesday."


    You can't really spin this to make it look like it's a good thing. Apologists will say that the year's growth rate of 2.2% is better than the 2011 rate of 1.8% and also blame Congress for not passing new laws. However, the wealth and health of the USA is in the doldrums. We are failing. We are becoming Europe.

    No talk in DC about jobs -- only talk about social issues.



    Last edited by opinterph; January 30th, 2013 at 07:49 PM. Reason: added quote tags and additional source link

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    I suspect it to get worse as more companies cut hours to 28 per week to avoid Obamacare insurance requirements . Less money being brought home with rising costs is depressing. And payroll tax has gone back up to the old 7.65% (6.2 ss 1.45 mc). So you're making less even if your hours haven't been cut.
    I may be bad, but I'm perfectly good at it.



  3. #3
    loki81
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    the one article I read made it sound like this was largely the result of cutting government spending.. http://www.politico.com/story/2013/0...ars-86925.html

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Anent the economy, one recalls Mark Twain

    The reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    The economy did not die...it retracted. Big difference. During the fourth quarter, the nation was subjected to the "doom and gloom" rhetoric of the so-called fiscal cliff. That's not spin. It's a fact. The economy responded. I believe that quarter will be negated by a robust first quarter. Yesterday the Dow nearly hit 14,000. That's hardly representative of an economy that died.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    They cut defense spending that was the issue.

  7. #7
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Just another sensationalist thread that doesn't take into account the factors as to why that happened. And growth will indeed return this year at a stable level. The economy didn't die, and the economy is expecting a much stronger growth figure in the first quarter. The republicans on here don't care about the economy, but rather their own political agenda.

    Crimson, that's a nice partisan attempt to attack Obamacare. Obamacare isn't going to cost businesses a dent... and businesses engaging in that like Papa Johns are only shooting themselves in the foot.

    It's good to get a balanced picture and not engage in partisan rhetoric (much like what this thread is based on):

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-eco...133115372.html

    The decline occurred despite faster growth in consumer spending and business investment.
    "Frankly, this is the best-looking contraction in U.S. GDP you'll ever see," Paul Ashworth, an economist at Capital Economics, said in a note to clients. "The drag from defense spending and inventories is a one-off. The rest of the report is all encouraging."
    Most economists agree with this.

    It's a "one off" decline... but hey it's nice the right wingers on here are again trying to politically profit off this.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    while lawmakers struggled to reach a deal on tax increases and budget cuts.
    Hey Jack, did you miss that part^?

    Also, did you miss the fact that your party toyed with letting the country spin into oblivion rather than come to the table like adults and negotiate until the 11th hour?

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Hey Jack, did you miss that part^?

    Also, did you miss the fact that your party toyed with letting the country spin into oblivion rather than come to the table like adults and negotiate until the 11th hour? M
    Old Chinese quotation: "Statistics never lie, but liars use statistics"

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

  10. #10

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Springer, thanks for being it to everyone's attention just how damaging republican obstructionism is to the country. Your post is proof republicans are out to destroy the country in their pathetic efforts to get at the President of the United States.

    Cutting government spending and the fear of republicans sending us over the "fiscal cliff" is what caused the slow growth.

    Thanks again for clearing up just how bad republicans are bad for the country. They don't talk about jobs jobs jobs, but only abortion, rape, immigration and them pesky homosexuals. We must vote out all republicans before they destroy us completely.

  11. #11
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Bob, he thinks that a minor contraction in one quarter is the economy dying. It's pure sensationalism and shows a great disregard for the people in this country. Republicans have stalled enough pro-jobs bills, but the economy nonetheless will bounce back perhaps strongly in the next quarter.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Retractions like this can be the prelude to improved growth, as companies make themselves more flexible -- so there's no reason to think the sky is falling; wait two quarters and then draw conclusions.

    But it's evident that a do-nothing Congress, specifically the House, isn't helping. Employers don't know from one month to the next what the Republicans will turn into a crisis, threatening disruption that will alter interest rates, or where government cuts will strike next, making it impossible to determine what future plans should look like.

    One of the best things Obama could do at this point would be to issue an executive order putting a freeze on the introduction of new regulations. If a law Congress has passed requires a new regulation, let a bipartisan congressional committee determine what it should be (at least that way they'd be doing something useful).

    But instead of being practical and effective, Congress is going to waste time over feel-good measures about guns, that won't go anywhere or accomplish anything if they did.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  13. #13

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    I'll start believing this when I see long lines of US citizens waiting in line outside Mexican consulates trying in vain to get a visa.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP


    Click image for larger version. 

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    With that in mind, Jack, I believe you're engaging in:

    Click image for larger version. 

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  15. #15

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    ^it's the same old same old..... desperately trying to paint the Obama Presidency as a failure.

  16. #16
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Yea its a desperate attempt to paint Obama as a failure, despite all the prior quarters of economic growth. And even recent indicators show a strong pick-up in consumer spending and an even stronger pick-up in business investment. I think the next quarter could actually be quite significant. But the OP will stick to attacking Obama every way he can... even at the cost of the facts.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    ... even at the cost of the facts.
    He

    Here are a few facts for you. The Obama recession is going to get worse in 2013, as big chains contemplate closing hundreds of stores. Nobody knows how many stores will actually be closed, but the numbers being tossed about are significant:

    http://247wallst.com/2013/01/29/eigh...e-most-stores/


    Barnes and Noble 190-240 stores could be closed
    Office Depot 125-150
    J C Penney 275-350
    Sears/K-Mart 275-350
    Best Buy 200-250
    Gamestop 500-600
    Office Max 150-175
    Radio Shack 450-550


    US Economy shrank in 4th Quarter

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...time-since-09/

  18. #18
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Wow... he's citing some statistics while disregarding most of it... I already stated some facts. Job creation has still commenced, despite some businesses closing stores. And what Obama recession? A recession is two quarters of contraction, and most economists agree that's clearly not the case. Perhaps dropping the political agenda will go a long way to improve ones own argument. The US economy shrank because of cuts in government spending and nothing else.

    Realize that many of those stores have been struggling for YEARS, even prior to Obama's administration. Some with outdated or outmoded business models, and a store like Barnes and Nobles switching its business to online. Bestbuy has been HORRIBLY managed. But yes, lets blame the screw ups in some of those companies on Obama. Is it Obama's fault Hostess failed too? Businesses come and go... but have it at with the right wing political partisan agenda...

    TRY AGAIN!

  19. #19

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    He

    Here are a few facts for you. The Obama recession is going to get worse in 2013, as big chains contemplate closing hundreds of stores. Nobody knows how many stores will actually be closed, but the numbers being tossed about are significant:

    http://247wallst.com/2013/01/29/eigh...e-most-stores/


    Barnes and Noble 190-240 stores could be closed
    Office Depot 125-150
    J C Penney 275-350
    Sears/K-Mart 275-350
    Best Buy 200-250
    Gamestop 500-600
    Office Max 150-175
    Radio Shack 450-550


    US Economy shrank in 4th Quarter

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...time-since-09/
    Appears the Bush Depression which President Obama pulled us out of may be made worse by Republican Obstructionism. Republicans are also notorious for closing plants, shipping jobs overseas, creating minimum wage jobs with zero benefits and no health care so the 1% can have more profits to hide in overseas accounts.

    But I'm convinced the republicans will fail with this attempt too. They haven't been too successful lately in any endeavor.

  20. #20
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    He'll cite a few stores, many of which have had financial problems for years as a way to attack Obama. And call it the make believe Obama recession. MAybe someone ought to understand what a recession actually is.

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...s-jobless-rate

    And most of that job growth is related to small businesses:

    http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/n...nuary-job.html

    Many businesses are hiring and many are opening new stores... businesses come and go. Mismanaged companies like Bestbuy and Office Max have failed in their own bottom line. Best Buy is really a huge disaster. Barnes and Nobles is shifting its whole structure to be online with LESS stores. They have had that objective for years now.

    The US economy is still creating jobs at about 150,000-160,000... but it could be more if republicans were to stop their political games in Washington and get something moving.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    There's a very specific reason GameStop is failing en masse and it has *nothing* to do with the economy. The videogame industry proved itself virtually recessionproof through the worst of the collapse anyway.

    It's because this is an age of no-disc, no-box digital distribution and purchase downloading of software, and GameStop relies on trading hard copies of games and used hard copies of games. It's having its niche sold out from under it by digital distribution directly from the distributor or developer to the end consumer. That's only going to get worse and they are an extinct model of business waiting to die.

    And that's just one example. Many of those big, overextended chains are struggling for reasons that have nothing to do with the economy. I wonder how many RadioShacks are suffering because of Best Buy, or how many of those other stores are suffering because of Wal*Mart.

    Best Buy btw while being overextended and having huge overhead is suffering the same thing I mentioned above... half of a Best Buy is the music and movies and videogames section and that's all going digital. People don't need to drive to an electronics store and browse for an hour to get movies, songs or games anymore, so in large part, they don't. People are only going there for the higher end electronics hardware which yes, when money is tight people are going to pass on a brand new flatscreen plasma TV or a new laptop.

  22. #22
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Oh yes, GameStop... want to know why it failed? It's called Steam and Amazon hahah...

    Best Buy has been grossly mismanaged for years. They had a string of CEOs that had to quit because all sorts of problems. Some seriously mismanaged the company.

    But I guess the inability of these companies to adapt is Obama's fault right? lol.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Reardon post a list of well known long term struggling retailers and automatically cuts out the lead from his own link in favor of blaming it on Obama. [Text: Removed] many of these retailers are struggling for a decade or more. Mitt's own Staples and sports authority should be on the list too, if he was President today it wouldn't change much for these retailers.

    Book stores like CD/record stores are dead in the water because of technology and this.


    For many retailers, the sales situation is so bad that it is not a question of whether they will cut stores, but when and how many. Most recently, Barnes & Noble Inc. (NYSE: BKS) decided it had too many stores to maintain profits. Its CEO recently said he plans to close as many as a third of the company’s locations.

    Several of America’s largest retailers have been battered for years. Most have been undermined by a combination of e-commerce competition, often from Amazon.com Inc. (NASDAQ: AMZN) and more successful retailers in the same areas. Borders and Circuit City are two of the best examples of retailers that were destroyed by larger bricks-and-mortar competition and consumers transitioning to online shopping. These large, badly damaged retailers could not possibly keep their stores open.

    Read more: Eight Retailers That Will Close the Most Stores - 24/7 Wall St. http://247wallst.com/2013/01/29/eigh...#ixzz2JUfvB8Y2
    Last edited by opinterph; January 30th, 2013 at 07:50 PM. Reason: removed indirect personal insult

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by vulgar_newcomer View Post
    . [Text: Removed] many of these retailers are struggling for a decade or more. s.
    [Text: Removed] Obama has done absolutely nothing to help the economy.
    He's too busy looking for photo ops and demeaning himself and the office appearing on talk shows etc.
    Last edited by opinterph; January 30th, 2013 at 07:52 PM. Reason: removed verbiage quoted from another poster; removed indirect personal insult

  25. #25
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    [Text: Removed] Obama has done absolutely nothing to help the economy.
    He's too busy looking for photo ops and demeaning himself and the office appearing on talk shows etc.
    Oh fucking please. I'm so tired of this. Obama has done a lot more for the economy than those clowns in the GOP... maybe the right wingers here could grasp that fact. By the way, the economy still created 160,000 jobs in January it's projected (and 155,000 in December). But I guess some like to focus on some badly mismanaged retailers and discounting all the other facts that have been posted. So keep at it.

    And what Obama supposed to do? Snap his fingers and order private sector companies to open up new job positions? I didn't realize the President had that power. Maybe if the GOP stopped dragging its feet on the economy, the President could get some of the bills he wants passed.

    And get over it already... the republicans lost.. and for good reason!
    Last edited by opinterph; January 30th, 2013 at 07:52 PM. Reason: removed verbiage quoted from another poster

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    ^ He's not only supposed to do that, he's supposed to do that while having absolutely everything filibustered, by a GOP that believes cutting spending (everywhere) is the answer.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    He

    Here are a few facts for you. The Obama recession is going to get worse in 2013, as big chains contemplate closing hundreds of stores. Nobody knows how many stores will actually be closed, but the numbers being tossed about are significant:

    http://247wallst.com/2013/01/29/eigh...e-most-stores/


    Barnes and Noble 190-240 stores could be closed 2012 CEO Compensation: $10 million
    Office Depot 125-150 2011 CEO Compensation: $2.7 million
    J C Penney 275-350 2011 CEO Compensation: $53.3 million
    Sears/K-Mart 275-350 2011 CEO Compensation: $10 million
    Best Buy 200-250 2012 CEO Compensation: ~$18 million
    Gamestop 500-600 2011 CEO Compensation: $3.2 million
    Office Max 150-175 2010 CEO Compensation: $12.9 million
    Radio Shack 450-550 2011 CEO Compensation: $5.9 million


    US Economy shrank in 4th Quarter

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...time-since-09/
    Went ahead and added some additional info there. They don't pay their CEOs like they are struggling companies. The fact of the matter is that the President has no control over internal corporate mismanagement and lack of economical responsibility. Most corporations are sitting on tons of cash that they aren't investing. They refuse to raise wages. They hire the minimum number of people to get by. They do all kinds of personnel and accounting moves to avoid having to pay people benefits. They move jobs and manufacturing overseas to save money so the CEOs can get paid like noted above. Corporate greed is one of the largest contributors to our lack of good economic performance.

    The other major contributor to the lack of good economic performance is the inability of our Congress to get anything done. When we have a new self-made fiscal crisis every 2 or 3 months, there is absolutely no certainty in the market and thus people hold back investing, businesses don't hire or expand, and people save instead of spend money because no one knows what the next emergency stopgap legislation will bring. There is some blame to be had by all parties, but I would place a lion's share of the blame on the Republicans who have been (and continue to be) obstructionists who have a no-compromise, my-way-or-the-highway mentality.

    You can try to blame the President all you want, but there is absolutely nothing he can do by himself to affect the way the economy is going. Now if you're suggesting that Congress should give him the authority to command businesses to hire, limit corporate profits, set the price of gas, groceries, and other necessary commodities, set minimum standards for worker salaries and benefits, and directly tie the increase in CEO and executive salary to that of the rest of the workforce, then I say let's get to it and then, maybe, you will be correct in placing your blame squarely on the President.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    He

    Here are a few facts for you. The Obama recession is going to get worse in 2013, as big chains contemplate closing hundreds of stores. Nobody knows how many stores will actually be closed, but the numbers being tossed about are significant:

    http://247wallst.com/2013/01/29/eigh...e-most-stores/


    Barnes and Noble 190-240 stores could be closed
    Office Depot 125-150
    J C Penney 275-350
    Sears/K-Mart 275-350
    Best Buy 200-250
    Gamestop 500-600
    Office Max 150-175
    Radio Shack 450-550


    US Economy shrank in 4th Quarter

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...time-since-09/
    d'uh.

    Best buy, Radio shack Gamestop and Barnes and Noble are closing becuase their day is done following them overbuilding like mad a decade ago. The shift to online shopping also is affecting Penney and Sears...for example...we now purchase over 50% of all our household goods from these types of stores on line.

    The e world is our shopping mall.

    Oh...and Jack?

    You should only fucking dream of being Germany.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    [Text: Removed] Obama has done absolutely nothing to help the economy.
    He's too busy looking for photo ops and demeaning himself and the office appearing on talk shows etc.
    There is no point in throwing more money after bad money. Any sensible businessperson would realize that. Hell, as a republican capitalist, this would be the "free-market" dictating demand.

    The only real variable that remains untested is when Obamacare is fully implemented, how many service companies will cut hours to below the requirement for health insurance and force many employees onto state run healthcare. The hardest hit people will be the ones who work in retail and food/beverage. If Mass Health is any indication of how bad other states will be, I feel bad for people in "red" states then.

    From The Globe today...

    According to an editorial in The Wall Street Journal last week, health care is expected to account for 41 percent of the state budget in 2013, compared with 23 percent in 2000 and 25 percent in 2006. In real terms Massachusetts’ annual health care budget is 15 percent larger than it was in 2007, according to the Journal, while transportation plunged by 22 percent, public safety by 17 percent, and education by 7 percent.
    Last edited by opinterph; January 30th, 2013 at 07:54 PM. Reason: removed verbiage quoted from another poster

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by maxpowr9 View Post
    There is no point in throwing more money after bad money. Any sensible businessperson would realize that. Hell, as a republican capitalist, this would be the "free-market" dictating demand.

    The only real variable that remains untested is when Obamacare is fully implemented, how many service companies will cut hours to below the requirement for health insurance and force many employees onto state run healthcare. The hardest hit people will be the ones who work in retail and food/beverage. If Mass Health is any indication of how bad other states will be, I feel bad for people in "red" states then.
    Isn't it amazing how those free market platitudes evaporate when overbloated, badly managed nearly-too-big-to-fail companies or industries are about to collapse from their own failure to compete properly and adapt to a changing market?

    Then suddenly it's the government's responsibility, in particular Obama's personally, to make sure these failing companies succeed, from the mouths of these same people who parrot free market nonsense in any other context.

    Btw, GameStop is going to fail absolutely no matter what Obama does. Short of him signing an illegal executive order giving them money or government subsidies or requiring people to buy there, it is dead. And the huge overextended big-box brick-and-mortar model in general just isn't what's competitive today either, in regards to everything else on the list.

    Let it fail. It will make room for newer, more innovative businesses doing it better.

  31. #31
    JockBoy87
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    I thought cutting government spending was supposed to be a good thing Jack

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Isn't it amazing how those free market platitudes evaporate when overbloated, badly managed nearly-too-big-to-fail companies or industries are about to collapse from their own failure to compete properly and adapt to a changing market?

    Then suddenly it's the government's responsibility, in particular Obama's personally, to make sure these failing companies succeed, from the mouths of these same people who parrot free market nonsense in any other context.

    Btw, GameStop is going to fail absolutely no matter what Obama does. Short of him signing an illegal executive order giving them money or government subsidies or requiring people to buy there, it is dead. And the huge overextended big-box brick-and-mortar model in general just isn't what's competitive today either, in regards to everything else on the list.

    Let it fail. It will make room for newer, more innovative businesses doing it better.
    Absolutely agree. Republicans are the biggest socialists when it's about government bailing out failing corporations.

    I would be sad to see GameStop go I still hope for some boutique version of both game and movie/tv hard copies retail, because I am thoroughly repulsed by digital distribution. Or rather, I don't mind it at all, but I want to own my movies and games as physical objects. But I don't mind seeing them as only collector's editions. Part of the reason for the death of this particular industry is not only the advent of digital transfer, but also the fact that regular editions of everything became completely barebone. If one wants ANYthing - as much as a fucking booklet - one needs a collector's edition, full of crap you don't need...
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Isn't it amazing how those free market platitudes evaporate when overbloated, badly managed nearly-too-big-to-fail companies or industries are about to collapse from their own failure to compete properly and adapt to a changing market?

    Then suddenly it's the government's responsibility, in particular Obama's personally, to make sure these failing companies succeed, from the mouths of these same people who parrot free market nonsense in any other context.

    Btw, GameStop is going to fail absolutely no matter what Obama does. Short of him signing an illegal executive order giving them money or government subsidies or requiring people to buy there, it is dead. And the huge overextended big-box brick-and-mortar model in general just isn't what's competitive today either, in regards to everything else on the list.

    Let it fail. It will make room for newer, more innovative businesses doing it better.
    TBH, the video game industry is ripe for a collapse and many gamers do wish for that to happen so better companies come along instead of the crap spewed forth by EAware and Actablizzard. Hell, Nintendo posted a yearly loss for the second time in-a-row. Sony is up to 5 years in successive loses and Microsoft is not looking too good either atm. BTW Congress, violent video games do not cause mass shootings.

  34. #34
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by maxpowr9 View Post
    TBH, the video game industry is ripe for a collapse and many gamers do wish for that to happen so better companies come along instead of the crap spewed forth by EAware and Actablizzard. Hell, Nintendo posted a yearly loss for the second time in-a-row. Sony is up to 5 years in successive loses and Microsoft is not looking too good either atm. BTW Congress, violent video games do not cause mass shootings.
    That's not telling the whole story.

    The console game market is in trouble, but the PC game market is not.

    http://articles.timesofindia.indiati...-pc-sales-xbox

    http://www.techradar.com/us/news/com...meback-1092769

    Sales have shot up for various PC Games... and many makers aren't even releasing these games on console anymore. There was once an argument that PCs were too expensive, but with the decline in price for computers that is no longer the case.

    AS far as Microsoft, they are doing alright.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...-revenues.html

    They had a dip in profits, but the underlying sentiment of their business is quite strong as revenues increase sharply. They aren't doing badly though... they are doing so-so... but I see an upside in the future for them.

  35. #35

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Wow! This thread must have hit a big nerve.

    I did not mention Obama or blame him -- those who jumped on might want to again read what I wrote.

    If the cause is purely because of the draw down in Afghanistan what happens when we really cut out the war expense? Obama, like Bush, has not budgeted that expense either so it's not money that can be spent elsewhere -- it's savings on not borrow money.

    The usual blame on Bush and republicans .... you guys might want to admit that Obama owns the economy now or he never will. If the economy ever improves -- I'm going to push the fact that you promote the republicans are owning the economy.

    Time to grow up and accept responsibility.

  36. #36
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Yea cause the thread is a bunch of baloney not based on the truth or the facts. Time to grow up, yes that's for sure. I've also stated the facts,, including that 150,000 jobs were created in December and 160,000 in January. Truth hurts?

    The usual blame on Bush and republicans .... you guys might want to admit that Obama owns the economy now or he never will. If the economy ever improves -- I'm going to push the fact that you promote the republicans are owning the economy.
    The economy is improving. And the republicans tanked this country and got us into two botched wars. Get the facts right please.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by maxpowr9 View Post
    TBH, the video game industry is ripe for a collapse and many gamers do wish for that to happen so better companies come along instead of the crap spewed forth by EAware and Actablizzard. Hell, Nintendo posted a yearly loss for the second time in-a-row. Sony is up to 5 years in successive loses and Microsoft is not looking too good either atm. BTW Congress, violent video games do not cause mass shootings.
    Yes, I agree with EA and Acti-Blizzard being big uncreative monsters that spew out crap, and I'd love to see them fail so that indie devs have some room to gain marketshare. But GameStop is failing for a totally different reason than the quality of games being put out, rather they are based on an obsolete business model of brick and mortar sales of hard copies of games that is increasingly going away and will be completely gone probably in the next decade.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Wow! This thread must have hit a big nerve.

    I did not mention Obama or blame him -- those who jumped on might want to again read what I wrote.

    If the cause is purely because of the draw down in Afghanistan what happens when we really cut out the war expense? Obama, like Bush, has not budgeted that expense either so it's not money that can be spent elsewhere -- it's savings on not borrow money.

    The usual blame on Bush and republicans .... you guys might want to admit that Obama owns the economy now or he never will. If the economy ever improves -- I'm going to push the fact that you promote the republicans are owning the economy.

    Time to grow up and accept responsibility.
    Jack when the economy collapsed under Bush it was in response to specific deregulatory and economic policy decisions the GOP directly supported.

    When you point out a small dip in an overall trend of recovery under Obama and try to paint it like something he personally did "tanked the economy" no one takes you seriously, nor should they.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Jack when the economy collapsed under Bush it was in response to specific deregulatory and economic policy decisions the GOP directly supported.
    Which started under Clinton mind you. Clinton could easily have vetoed the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act but he didn't.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Wow! This thread must have hit a big nerve.

    I did not mention Obama or blame him -- those who jumped on might want to again read what I wrote.

    If the cause is purely because of the draw down in Afghanistan what happens when we really cut out the war expense? Obama, like Bush, has not budgeted that expense either so it's not money that can be spent elsewhere -- it's savings on not borrow money.
    Did you just immigrate to this Country?

    I seem to recall Bush 43 coming into office in 2001 with a $236.2 BILLION DOLLAR "Clinton Surplus."

    See FactCheck.org.

    The Clinton years showed the effects of a large tax increase that Clinton pushed through in his first year, and that Republicans incorrectly claim is the "largest tax increase in history." It fell almost exclusively on upper-income taxpayers. Clinton’s fiscal 1994 budget also contained some spending restraints. An equally if not more powerful influence was the booming economy and huge gains in the stock markets, the so-called dot-com bubble, which brought in hundreds of millions in unanticipated tax revenue from taxes on capital gains and rising salaries.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer
    The usual blame on Bush and republicans .... you guys might want to admit that Obama owns the economy now or he never will. If the economy ever improves -- I'm going to push the fact that you promote the republicans are owning the economy.

    Time to grow up and accept responsibility.
    Better yet, time to check back into reality!

    Costco and Sam's Club are selling dried rice and beans in bulk, and fire arms and ammunition are a sellers market!

    The rich are getting richer, and the poor are becoming MORE POOR, and Pollyanna is either Dead, or on life support, depending on one's tax bracket, or their source of news!

    Things couldn't be better!

    Especially if you're a Tea Bagger, or a Republican up for Re-election...in 2014.

    Seriously! Shouldn't we hold off with the partisan dribble at least until then?
    Last edited by CTF; January 30th, 2013 at 05:48 PM.
    Never regret anything, because in that moment it's exactly what you wanted.

  40. #40
    Suck my dick, Scalia! FuryOfFirestorm's Avatar
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerfan482 View Post
    Went ahead and added some additional info there. They don't pay their CEOs like they are struggling companies. The fact of the matter is that the President has no control over internal corporate mismanagement and lack of economical responsibility. Most corporations are sitting on tons of cash that they aren't investing. They refuse to raise wages. They hire the minimum number of people to get by. They do all kinds of personnel and accounting moves to avoid having to pay people benefits. They move jobs and manufacturing overseas to save money so the CEOs can get paid like noted above. Corporate greed is one of the largest contributors to our lack of good economic performance.
    ...but...but...they're JOB CREATORS!


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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    I've never seen Jack_Springer so gleeful. The economy "dies," eh? That's what sick about Republicans. They'd dance in glee over the death of this country if it meant they could blame a Democrat. The economy retracted due to government cuts that you support. Contrary to your view of the world, government jobs and infrastructure also plays a major part in driving the economy. That's why if the fiscal cliff went into effect, the entire amount of federal government cuts would swing the U.S. economy into another recession.


    For the record I find this post applicable to the discussion of the thread. The hyperbole of word choice here more than justifies the suspicion directed towards the OP for starting it.
    #439th oldest member on JUB.

  42. #42

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Another on topic post here:

    Whenever there's news that isn't so great, Springer is the first one to report on it. When something great happens the OP ignores it. JB18 is right... the OP is gleeful when there's news like this. Anything to bash the President of the United States.

  43. #43
    boom boom chaos maker crimsonpaine's Avatar
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    He

    Here are a few facts for you. The Obama recession is going to get worse in 2013, as big chains contemplate closing hundreds of stores. Nobody knows how many stores will actually be closed, but the numbers being tossed about are significant:

    http://247wallst.com/2013/01/29/eigh...e-most-stores/


    Barnes and Noble 190-240 stores could be closed
    Office Depot 125-150
    J C Penney 275-350
    Sears/K-Mart 275-350
    Best Buy 200-250
    Gamestop 500-600
    Office Max 150-175
    Radio Shack 450-550


    US Economy shrank in 4th Quarter

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...time-since-09/
    It could be that the stores are closing because they are under-performing in the area they are in. Gamestop (for example since it's been brought up several times) is still opening new locations and they just opened a new store in King George, Virginia not that long ago.

    And for the reasons mentioned to as well, competition and such.
    I may be bad, but I'm perfectly good at it.



  44. #44
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DowJones-001.png 
Views:	242 
Size:	6.7 KB 
ID:	924373
    The link below provides a more dramatic view of the same data from 2000 forward:


    Some financial experts suggest there is an inverse relationship between the major stock indexes and the US Dollar index (DXY). When the Dollar index declines, stock values tend to inflate. The DXY trend line over the last year is positive, while the moving average has essentially reached the overall average associated with the same period. The DXY trend line during the period of the entire Obama Administration is negative and its moving average is now roughly equivalent to the overall average associated with the most recent year.

    It is my personal opinion that what happens next in the US economy is more determinative than what has happened recently.

  45. #45
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    He

    Here are a few facts for you. The Obama recession is going to get worse in 2013, as big chains contemplate closing hundreds of stores. Nobody knows how many stores will actually be closed, but the numbers being tossed about are significant:

    http://247wallst.com/2013/01/29/eigh...e-most-stores/


    Barnes and Noble 190-240 stores could be closed
    Office Depot 125-150
    J C Penney 275-350
    Sears/K-Mart 275-350
    Best Buy 200-250
    Gamestop 500-600
    Office Max 150-175
    Radio Shack 450-550
    Bricks and mortar retail stores are collapsing (financially) around the world. It is driven by the changing face of retail: the internet. Personally, other than food and clothing, I rarely purchase anything in a physical store any more. In my city of Sydney, there is just one major book retailer left in the main shopping district downtown, and it is half the size it used to be. The largest electronics chain in Australia is rapidly contracting, and their movie and music racks have been cut to one third of their size in most stores. The Australian K-Mart chain has morphed from a mid-quality department store to a very-low-budget Walmart-style Chinese plastic outlet chain, in an effort to compete with online competition.

    It's unfortunate that it's happening in many ways, but it's just global reality. It's not because of any government action or inaction, it's just the free market in action. You should be celebrating it for that reason - supply and demand is what makes businesses succeed and fail. Conservatives should applaud the free market at work.
    Last edited by andysayshi; January 30th, 2013 at 08:05 PM.

  46. #46

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    The economy dies in the 4th quarter? Just been reading my automotive news e-mail. Here's a few of today's stories. Don't know if non-subscribers can access the articles but here they are.

    GM to invest $200 million at its powertrain headquarters

    http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...#axzz2JWCd8opt

    Ford sees surge in U.S. hybrid sales on way to annual record

    http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...utonews-daily#

    Chrysler Q4 profits jump 68% to $378 million

    Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...#ixzz2JWEwEGwP

    Yes, the Obama Economy is doing pretty well. Thank the Gods President Obama saved the auto industry instead of letting it go away like republicans wanted.

    It's too bad the massive cut in military spending spending slowed down the economy this quarter.

    Defense spending pullback shrinks U.S. economy in 4Q

    http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/m...hrinks-us.html

    Looks like we're going to have to focus on other technologies, like green energy instead of weapons of mass destruction.

    EPIC FAIL SPRINGER.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP



    ...to corrupt you of your reason, and rob you of your common sense...
    Last edited by CTF; January 30th, 2013 at 08:45 PM.
    Never regret anything, because in that moment it's exactly what you wanted.

  48. #48
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by nycguydowntown View Post
    They cut defense spending that was the issue.
    One report I read said it was because the Defense Department simply cut back on spending in anticipation of the spending cuts. Which equated to less government spending.

  49. #49

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Compare all you want -- but Obama is not Clinton. Clinton had the ability to work with the opposition -- not just degrade it in continual campaigns appearances like the jerk that occupies the WH now.



    Quote Originally Posted by centexfarmer View Post
    Did you just immigrate to this Country?

    I seem to recall Bush 43 coming into office in 2001 with a $236.2 BILLION DOLLAR "Clinton Surplus."

    See FactCheck.org.





    Better yet, time to check back into reality!

    Costco and Sam's Club are selling dried rice and beans in bulk, and fire arms and ammunition are a sellers market!

    The rich are getting richer, and the poor are becoming MORE POOR, and Pollyanna is either Dead, or on life support, depending on one's tax bracket, or their source of news!

    Things couldn't be better!

    Especially if you're a Tea Bagger, or a Republican up for Re-election...in 2014.

    Seriously! Shouldn't we hold off with the partisan dribble at least until then?

  50. #50

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post

    It is my personal opinion that what happens next in the US economy is more determinative than what has happened recently.
    What does that mean? The future is what happens next?

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