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  1. #51
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Compare all you want -- but Obama is not Clinton.
    Good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by maxpowr9 View Post
    Which started under Clinton mind you. Clinton could easily have vetoed the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act but he didn't.

  2. #52
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    What does that mean? The future is what happens next?
    That means last quarter's rate of GDP growth is not determinative. (IMO)

  3. #53
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    He

    Here are a few facts for you. The Obama recession is going to get worse in 2013, as big chains contemplate closing hundreds of stores. Nobody knows how many stores will actually be closed, but the numbers being tossed about are significant:

    http://247wallst.com/2013/01/29/eigh...e-most-stores/


    Barnes and Noble 190-240 stores could be closed
    Office Depot 125-150
    J C Penney 275-350
    Sears/K-Mart 275-350
    Best Buy 200-250
    Gamestop 500-600
    Office Max 150-175
    Radio Shack 450-550


    US Economy shrank in 4th Quarter

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...time-since-09/
    Most of those closings are a result of a changing of consumer habits. Barnes and Noble is closing becuase more people are buying books online. Not to mention BN is in the e-book race. They are moving away from Brick and Mortor and putting their money behind the Nook.

    Office Depot and Office Max are quickly becoming irrelevant with the power and efficiency of Amazon.com and other online retailers who can get you more for less with just a click of the mouse.

    Sears/KMart have been closing stores for years. Jeez, Kmart left the Houston market back when the economy was still in good standing. And i'd be blessed to see a Sears in Houston and I think I saw one in LA.

    A lot of those businesses are failing because of failed business models and bad business decisions.

  4. #54
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by Apollo View Post
    One report I read said it was because the Defense Department simply cut back on spending in anticipation of the spending cuts. Which equated to less government spending.
    Defense cuts are going to hurt the economy just as other government spending cuts will hurt the economy. However the defense cuts just started and could have in no way made such a huge impact. The Service chiefs announced their freezes only last week and the Navy began firing folks this week.

    Now it could be the defense industry reading the tea leaves and self cutting to prepare for the future. However actual cuts did not begin until recently.

    I find it amusing that most of those companies cited by Henry are Strategic management case studies in the textbook i am using this semester. It was printed in 2011. They are examples of how failure to strategically manage your enterprise results in failure or major loss and restructuring. I am figuring out how to save Best Buy coincidentally. Nothing germane their to the party panty fight but I do find amusing that Obama forced these companies to fail by not being on their boards. So destined to fail that they ended up in a text book printed in 2011.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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  5. #55
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    i could tell you how to fix the economy, have more elections. fewer republicans = fewer roadblocks to recovery.


  6. #56
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Springer, why the refusal to address the significant evidence I have posted showing strong business investment and a leap in consumer spending? Perhaps because it doesn't suit the argument of the "economy dying". This is nonsense. This is a slight pull back after many quarters of solid GDP growth, and it's expected to climb faster this year than last.

    This thread is just total rubbish not having any real basis in reality.

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    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Do he play by sense of smell?

    I was wrong previously. Defense spending was down 22% from everything I have been reading...... that is what republicans want. More cuts to spending. This is a perfect example of what will happen to the economy.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  8. #58

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Here's more news for those who refuse to accept reality:

    High-end home sales hit record in California
    http://www.mercurynews.com/business/...ord-california

    2012 home sales: Best in 5 years
    http://money.cnn.com/2013/01/22/news...les/index.html

    Damn, this economy is really sputtering and dying, isn't it guys. Want some salt for that egg on your face Springer?

  9. #59

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    OOPS .....I mentioned Chrysler and Ford but forgot to include General Motors.

    North American sales drive GM to $1.48 billion profit
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...nings/1670015/

    10 Reasons GM's Profit Is About To Explode
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/joannmul...ut-to-explode/

    General Motors has pocketed $5 billion in net profit so far this year, $1 billion more than crosstown rival Ford Motor Company
    Damn, this is a dead Obama economy, isn't it?

  10. #60
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    CowBoy Bob: Thanks for this information. It amazes how well the American auto industry has rebounded from near extinction. I can only imagine how much worse the economy would have been had the industry been allowed to go bankrupt.

    I know my partner and I have done what we could for the auto industry--three new Chevys since 2008. And, truly, the best cars we've owned.

  11. #61
    Sex God tigerfan482's Avatar
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    [Quoted Post: Removed]
    Jobless claims go up and down all of the time. It's a result of the seasonal nature of a lot of jobs out there. You should sit down and have a discussion with the private sector on how job instability hurts the economy.

    As far as the jobs council, I wouldn't call it non-productive since the very article you quoted said that unemployment was 9% when they were established and is now 7.8%. Also, I would read the rest of the article about how the executive order had the sunset in it and how the President never intended for it to be long term.

    [Text: Removed]
    Last edited by opinterph; February 2nd, 2013 at 06:01 PM. Reason: removed verbiage quoted from another poster; removed baiting remark

  12. #62

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Unemployment is up again to 7.9%.

    But I know liberals think that is a good thing.

  13. #63

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Ford, GM, Chrysler sales advance on sharp rise in car, crossover deliveries

    http://www.autonews.com/article/2013...#ixzz2Jf9xqhlg

    Ford Motor Co., General Motors and Chrysler Group posted double-digit sales increases in January, signaling the industry may be starting 2013 on a stronger note than expected. Other automakers will release January sales results later today, with Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co. expected to post substantial gains.
    Some news to counter the gloomy gus.

  14. #64

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Dow climbs above 14,000

    The Dow Jones industrial average climbed above 14,000 for the first time since the Great Recession. The index rose as high as 14,000.97 in early trading. The index last traded above 14,000 in October 2007.
    Damn, the Obama economy is looking pretty good, Springer! You can thank your (re-elected) President for saving the country from the Bush depression.

    http://money.msn.com/business-news/a...01&id=16070897

  15. #65
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Unemployment is up again to 7.9%.

    But I know liberals think that is a good thing.
    LMFAO! Talk about taking half of a report... read the fucking report. 157,000 jobs were created and prior months were revised up. It was in line with what I said.

    How do liberals think that is a good thing?

    The jobs report was actually quite strong, and ECONOMISTS think that. There was a significant pick-up in construction... with a great deal of hiring. This indicates stronger months of economic growth to come.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...ee-months.html

    GDP growth is expected to accelerate to 3% this year and perhaps higher... as the last quarter decline was a "one off".

    Oh and if the republican party wasn't stopping pro-jobs bill growth would be much higher, but it's still respectably strong. I guess republican math only consists of taking certain figures and ignoring the rest.

  16. #66
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    [Quoted Post: Removed]
    Jack 3 basic rebuttals have been thrown your way.

    1) A lot of the downturn was over the uncertainty of what was happening with the "fiscal cliff", which occurred because Republicans utterly refused to come to the table at all until the very last second.

    2) A lot of the industries and companies losing traction are doing so because of wider market changes such as the move into e-commerce and mismanagement, and have absolutely nothing to do with anything Obama does.

    3) Cutting Federal spending, which Republicans WANT, is going to result in short-term dips to economic activity.

    These three things are all pretty much core to what you were trying to say in your original post.

    [Text: Removed]
    Last edited by opinterph; February 2nd, 2013 at 05:59 PM. Reason: removed verbiage quoted from another poster; removed off-topic baiting remark

  17. #67
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Even considering those three rebuttals, the economy still turned in solid job figures and job figures from prior months were actually revised upwards. In addition, construction created 15,000 jobs in the last month and that's often a key indicator where the economy is headed. Despite all the republican assaults on the American people, the economy is showing great resislence. -0.1% GDP decline doesn't mean much when over 400,000 jobs were created the last two months. The decline was a "one-off" as they say in economics.

    Source: http://abcnews.go.com/Business/janua...ry?id=18369717

    Good to look at the entire picture.

    Employment numbers for November were revised higher to 247,000 from 161,000. For December, they were also revised higher to 196,000 from 155,000.

    This report, which does not include government or public jobs data, noted that goods-producing employment increased by 15,000 jobs in January, primarily fueled by a 15,000 increase in construction jobs. Manufacturing jobs, however, were down by 3,000.

    Service jobs, including restaurant workers, health care workers, housekeepers, teachers and retail sales positions, increased by 177,000, with professional/business services adding 40,000 jobs for the month, the ADP report said. Trade/transportation/utilities added 33,000 jobs, and financial services added 12,000 jobs.
    Looking at it all, it's actually a very strong jobs report... especially considering the prior months.

  18. #68

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Obama oversold the recovery -- the red is actual unemployment.



    At the current rate of job growth it will take until 2025 to reach were we were before the recession started.

    I have no doubt whatsoever that you guys will put a good spin on that -- but deep down you know it's not good.



    http://www.aei-ideas.org/2013/02/jan...-jobs-anymore/

  19. #69
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    The falsehoods continue... Obama never oversold anything. Jobs are being created at a steady pace. Look at all the figures please, like the facts I posted. I'm not putting any fucking good spin on this. I'm stating the facts. Not some paint shop graph that is distorting everything anyways. Oh by the way, JACK. 247,000 jobs were created in December.

    It's not a weak report. It's actually a strong one if one were to look at the ACTUAL figures. Oh and thanks for the right wing crackpot website...

    Deep down I know it's real fucking good because of the high level of construction jobs being created and also the fact that the two prior months were revised up to over 200,000 jobs created. Fact check please!

    And what's the republican plan? What is it? I want to hear it.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Obama oversold the recovery -- the red is actual unemployment.



    At the current rate of job growth it will take until 2025 to reach were we were before the recession started.

    I have no doubt whatsoever that you guys will put a good spin on that -- but deep down you know it's not good.



    http://www.aei-ideas.org/2013/02/jan...-jobs-anymore/
    Jack, yes, job recovery takes time.

    All you said is he "oversold" the recovery. To me that means very little because Republicans have criticized everything about Obama from the false interpretation that he promised an instant recovery. If you listened to any of his speeches, even his pre-election campaign speeches, he said that this would take years and be a lot of hard work. He never promised instant recovery.

    If you believe he has somehow done something that has 'hurt' recovery, say how exactly. But realize that we're going to take it within the context that the financial collapse in the first place followed up 8 years of Republicans getting to do anything they wanted with the leadership of this country.

  21. #71
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    One of the worst recessions in years indeed... but, the last three months have showed a pick-up in job growth... two months close to or exceeding 200,000 jobs created and a sharp uptick in the construction sector which is a vital indicator of the economy.

  22. #72
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    .
    Bad News:

    The Dow exceeded 14,000 today - highest in the last five years... before Bush and Paulson torpedoed the economy. When Barry took office in 2009, it was around 6,500. It's like golf - the lower score the better. Right?

    ...with history the final judge of our deeds. - JFK

  23. #73
    JockBoy87
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Bull market! Say it isn't so

  24. #74
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Obama oversold the recovery -- the red is actual unemployment.

    [IMG]http://www.aei-ideas.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/020113romerbernsteinJan20132-600x348.jpg[/IMG]
    I think what the president stands behind is the policies that he is implementing, the policies that he is advocating. That's what's important. *

    The blog to which you linked was published by James Pethokoukis. Back in 2008 he published “a few pieces of advice” for then-presidential candidate, John McCain, which included:
    He could trot out that famous John Maynard Keynes line, “When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?” The end of cheap oil is one huge factual change. And McCain could set the stage, as someone recently suggested, by visiting ANWR with Alaska's governor, Sarah Palin.
    Ten weeks later, Senator McCain announced Sarah Palin as his running mate. So, Mr. Pethokoukis acknowledged that sometimes facts change and it is therefore prudent to change position. I wonder if he regrets advising John McCain to stand with Governor Palin.

    I also wonder if the Obama Administration has ever revised its outlook for employment in the US. The figures Mr. Pethokoukis cites are from 2009.
    To provide some context, recall that back in January 2009 Team Obama economists Jared Bernstein and Christina Romer predicted the unemployment rate by 2013 would be closing in on 5%.
    Bernstein and Romer are no longer part of the Obama Administration and the facts have changed since their predictions of 2009.

    And with regard to the linked blog, Wiki reports: “More than twenty AEI scholars and fellows served either in a Bush administration policy post or on one of the government's many panels and commissions.” I’m glad they have found a way to continue to collaborate and share their expertise.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    At the current rate of job growth it will take until 2025 to reach were we were before the recession started.
    A major reason why the pre-recession employment levels will not soon again be reached is the changing demographics here in the US. Nine months ago I posted about the decreasing job participation rate, including how it is expected to decline over the next couple decades. Unless we can convince more people to immigrate to the US, we simply won’t have the workforce to restore pre-recession employment levels anytime soon.


  25. #75
    Sex God tigerfan482's Avatar
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Obama oversold the recovery -- the red is actual unemployment.



    At the current rate of job growth it will take until 2025 to reach were we were before the recession started.

    I have no doubt whatsoever that you guys will put a good spin on that -- but deep down you know it's not good.



    http://www.aei-ideas.org/2013/02/jan...-jobs-anymore/
    Again, what exactly does the President need to do? Should he hire more government workers to help reduce that number? You should really be e-mailing your friends in private industry and telling them to hire people. You should also go ahead and e-mail your Republican buddies in Congress and tell them to pass Obama's job creation measures. Keep in mind, the predictions his team made in January 2009 were predicated on the fact that they would have a Congress that would be interested in creating jobs and not trying to take Obama out of one. I know it's modus operandi for Republicans to roadblock everything and then blame the lack of large positive movement on the President, but most of America sees through their tricks and really doesn't trust Republicans to do anything anymore.

  26. #76
    I can't breathe. chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    .
    Chrysler would have been better off going bankrupt.

    Chrysler’s Earnings Soar, Raising Fiat’s With Them
    By BILL VLASIC
    Published: January 30, 2013

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/31/bu...soar.html?_r=0

    More evidence of the failed Obama presidency. Oh, the humanity! -

    ...with history the final judge of our deeds. - JFK

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  28. #78

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by tigerfan482 View Post
    Again, what exactly does the President need to do? Should he hire more government workers to help reduce that number? You should really be e-mailing your friends in private industry and telling them to hire people. You should also go ahead and e-mail your Republican buddies in Congress and tell them to pass Obama's job creation measures. Keep in mind, the predictions his team made in January 2009 were predicated on the fact that they would have a Congress that would be interested in creating jobs and not trying to take Obama out of one. I know it's modus operandi for Republicans to roadblock everything and then blame the lack of large positive movement on the President, but most of America sees through their tricks and really doesn't trust Republicans to do anything anymore.
    A US President has ways of making it more convenient for businesses to be more productive. There is much uncertainty regarding issues such as taxes, Obamacare, regulations including EPA and HHS regulations that have businesses very unsure of what the future will hold.

    There are no tricks involved. It's called leadership.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    A US President has ways of making it more convenient for businesses to be more productive. There is much uncertainty regarding issues such as taxes, Obamacare, regulations including EPA and HHS regulations that have businesses very unsure of what the future will hold.

    There are no tricks involved. It's called leadership.
    Jack now you're talking about how there's been uncertainty about the laws but you blame Obama entirely for that... and you don't seem to blame the Republican party acting as pure obstructionists and delaying everything they can for as long as possible as part of the equation at all.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    A US President has ways of making it more convenient for businesses to be more productive. There is much uncertainty regarding issues such as taxes, Obamacare, regulations including EPA and HHS regulations that have businesses very unsure of what the future will hold.

    There are no tricks involved. It's called leadership.
    One can "lead" all they want. Getting the House, controlled by the opposing party, to agree with your priorities is another thing. So sick and tired of the bullshit from blowhards out there that simply either:

    1) Don't get the basics of the functions of each of the branches of government works ... or
    2) Understands it, and just tries to trpll others in an attempt to start an argument for the Hell of it

    The President was re-elected. The only reason the GOP kept the House was due to the gerrymandering committed in 2010 by these lowlife GOP governors. Otherwise, the Dems would have reclaimed the House, as well. Then, "leadership" as you put it, would have been much less of an issue.

    Keep kicking and stomping your feet all you want. The majority of Americans seem to get how government works now.
    Telling it like it is.

  31. #81
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    A US President has ways of making it more convenient for businesses to be more productive. There is much uncertainty regarding issues such as taxes, Obamacare, regulations including EPA and HHS regulations that have businesses very unsure of what the future will hold.

    There are no tricks involved. It's called leadership.
    Uh huh, and he's done that very effectively leading the economy from one of the worst recessions in years. Show me proof where he has failed. There is no proof that he failed. Obamacare doesn't even cause a dent in the economy, rather it is beneficial for businesses in the long haul. Obama's regulations of the EPA? So we let america become a toxic waste dump? If we have environmentally friendly businesses that is optimal... but don't expect the private sector to do it voluntarily.

    All this talk attacking Obama's leadership is based on nothing but rhetoric. Show some proof.

    In addition, why the heck are corporate profits through the roof if Obama is so bad for businesses?

    http://thinkprogress.org/economy/201...usiness-obama/

    Business executives like to portray the Obama administration as the “most anti-business” in history, creating an “increasingly hostile environment for investment and job creation.” However, the data tells a far different story. According to a Bloomberg News analysis, corporate profits have grown by 171 percent under Obama, the most in the post-war era:
    U.S. corporations’ after-tax profits have grown by 171 percent under Obama, more than under any president since World War II, and are now at their highest level relative to the size of the economy since the government began keeping records in 1947, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

    Profits are more than twice as high as their peak during President Ronald Reagan’s administration and more than 50 percent greater than during the late-1990s Internet boom, measured by the size of the economy.
    By 171% to be exact. And one can cite some business like Barnes and Nobles or Radio Shack all they want... but lets look at the BIGGER PICTURE.

    Oh and if someone hates Thinkprogress.org, they cite Bloomberg so lets not go there.

  32. #82

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by MystikWizard View Post
    One can "lead" all they want. Getting the House, controlled by the opposing party, to agree with your priorities is another thing. So sick and tired of the bullshit from blowhards out there that simply either:

    1) Don't get the basics of the functions of each of the branches of government works ... or
    2) Understands it, and just tries to trpll others in an attempt to start an argument for the Hell of it

    The President was re-elected. The only reason the GOP kept the House was due to the gerrymandering committed in 2010 by these lowlife GOP governors. Otherwise, the Dems would have reclaimed the House, as well. Then, "leadership" as you put it, would have been much less of an issue.

    Keep kicking and stomping your feet all you want. The majority of Americans seem to get how government works now.
    More stimulus to unions is not going to get us out of this rut. What else has Obama suggested?

  33. #83
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    More stimulus to unions is not going to get us out of this rut. What else has Obama suggested?
    What else has Congress brought him? Last time I checked, Congress was supposed to bring Legislation to the President's desk first, so he can either sign off or veto it.

    Seems to me like you are pointing the finger at the wrong branch of Government. Then again, most Republicans seem to have confused which branch they should be looking at for legislative matters since Obama has been in office.

    "We want legislation and action ... so we could look at the 'LEGISLATIVE BRANCH' ... but nah ... what sense does that make? Let's look at the Executive Branch instead."

    All of you should be calling your Congressman if you want action on something.
    Telling it like it is.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by MystikWizard View Post
    All of you should be calling your Congressman if you want action on something.
    Quoted for emphasis. I don't know how many topics or threads it's been necessary to point that out in, but it's been a lot. There's a whole lot of vague "Obama should LEAD, Obama could have done this, Obama could have done that", and somehow it always involves passing a lot of new laws left and right and promptly-- with a Congress that is routinely engaging in obstructionism because they seemingly have absolutely no idea how to participate in government as Republicans under a successful Democratic opponent under any other criteria.

  35. #85
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    More stimulus to unions is not going to get us out of this rut. What else has Obama suggested?
    I thought Congress was the one that writes legislation? I guess we need to get a dictator now... forget congress... lets just do everything by decree!

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Quoted for emphasis. I don't know how many topics or threads it's been necessary to point that out in, but it's been a lot. There's a whole lot of vague "Obama should LEAD, Obama could have done this, Obama could have done that", and somehow it always involves passing a lot of new laws left and right and promptly-- with a Congress that is routinely engaging in obstructionism because they seemingly have absolutely no idea how to participate in government as Republicans under a successful Democratic opponent under any other criteria.
    Well, I think it points to the bigger problem of trolling, frankly. And it's obviously all around the internet on political forums. Because you have people that aren't interested in having a real discussion about topics and solutions. Rather, you have people that simply enjoy having conflict and taunting the other side because it's fun to do.

    You could point out the obvious such as "Legislative matters should involve the leaders of Congress first since it is their duty to introduce legislation, pass it, and then forward it up to the President", but it doesn't matter.

    Blaming the President is conditional depending on the situation in Congress. If one party controls the Presidency, the Senate, and the House ... as Bush did for 6 out of his 8 years in office, then pointing the finger at the President is certainly understandable. Pointing the finger at the President over legislative matters when the opposite party controls one house of Congress is frankly laughable, childish, and non-sensible. And this is for reasons that are obvious to pretty much anyone with a level-head on their shoulders.

    As further demonstration that Americans who vote seem to be beginning to understand this, Obama was re-elected despite unemployment, the economy, etc. And Congress still keeps a low disapproval rating, with Americans blaming Republicans for their obstructionism in Congress more than the Democrats.

    As mentioned earlier, you can thank the gerrymandering on the GOP governors from 2010 for being the only reason they were fortunate enough to keep the House. And that tactic should frankly be illegal. Maybe the Dems should start doing the same thing if that issue isn't going to be addressed. They already have in a few states. I guess if the GOP wants to cheat, there is no reason why the Dems can't as well.

    I want to know why Jack Springer and others are not looking to Speaker Boehner and their party's leadership in Congress for not leading on this matter, instead of pointing the finger at the Executive Branch, whose responsibility as defined by Congress in legislative matters is purely checks and balances-- to either sign or veto legislation passed by Congress.
    Telling it like it is.

  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by MystikWizard View Post
    I want to know why Jack Springer and others are not looking to Speaker Boehner and their party's leadership in Congress for not leading on this matter, instead of pointing the finger at the Executive Branch, whose responsibility as defined by Congress in legislative matters is purely checks and balances-- to either sign or veto legislation passed by Congress.
    I want to know too, but he'll likely call it a "trap" and refuse to respond. And frankly, I'm not even certain he's clear on what the role of the president is...
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  38. #88
    Sex God tigerfan482's Avatar
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    A US President has ways of making it more convenient for businesses to be more productive. There is much uncertainty regarding issues such as taxes, Obamacare, regulations including EPA and HHS regulations that have businesses very unsure of what the future will hold.

    There are no tricks involved. It's called leadership.
    The only reason there is any uncertainty in any of that is because Republicans can't sit down and work out a solution with Democrats. It's that simple. Taxes could have easily been solved earlier than they were had the Republicans in the House not stuck to their "no raising taxes ever" ideals and just kicked the can down the road slightly with temporary extensions. Obamacare was passed as the law of the land almost 4 years ago and was upheld by the Supreme Court. The only reason there is uncertainty there is because Republicans keep trying ways to repeal it, block its implementation, or defund it. EPA regulations haven't seen any major changes for the past few years. The only uncertainty there was a Republican presidential candidate running on the platform of basically eliminating the EPA. The debt ceiling and sequester could be easily solved if Republicans didn't take a "my way or the highway" approach.

    The uncertainty that comes from government is only there because the Republicans make it. If they can take time to pull their heads out of their ideologue asses and show a willingness to compromise, then you will see much more get done.

  39. #89
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    So nobody is in favor of my decree idea? We can also have five year plans directed by the President and Congress could be all appointed... we should also rig the system so only one party wins all the time. That's the idea I get from certain right wing trolls on here. They complain about Obama not being effective enough...

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    So nobody is in favor of my decree idea? We can also have five year plans directed by the President and Congress could be all appointed... we should also rig the system so only one party wins all the time. That's the idea I get from certain right wing trolls on here. They complain about Obama not being effective enough...
    It's certainly close to how they WANTED things to work when Bush had all 3 branches.

  41. #91
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    I have to debunk this thread as certain right wingers are still bringing up this gdp figure as if it proves some point.

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...icit-trade-gap

    The U.S. economy likely expanded slightly in the fourth quarter, according to data on Friday that suggested a surprise drop in GDP reported by the government last week was overstated.

    The decline in GDP was driven by an expected drop in exports, smaller gains in inventories and a plunge in government spending on the military.

    Barclays said even with December's decline in wholesale inventories, GDP likely expanded 0.3 percent in the fourth quarter thanks to the higher export numbers in Friday's trade report.

    U.S. exports increased $8.6 billion in December, boosted by sales of industrial supplies, including a $1.2 billion rise of non-monetary gold.
    Lulz... the economy never "died". The GDP probably grew about +0.3% in the fourth quarter and the government figure is likely to revised upwards. This is good because it sets the stage for even stronger growth in the later part of this year.

  42. #92

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    ^^^

    Anything above zero or negative growth is a plus -- but the number has to be bigger to signify actual growth in the economy.

    You're comparing baking a cake in an EasyBake(r) oven to one baked in a regular kitchen oven.

    The economy sucks and yet the President didn't lay out a plan to help stimulate growth or jobs in his SOTU speech ... just more government give-a-ways.

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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    ^^^

    Anything above zero or negative growth is a plus -- but the number has to be bigger to signify actual growth in the economy.

    You're comparing baking a cake in an EasyBake(r) oven to one baked in a regular kitchen oven.

    The economy sucks and yet the President didn't lay out a plan to help stimulate growth or jobs in his SOTU speech ... just more government give-a-ways.
    Write your Republican representatives and tell them that when the economy is in need of help this is not the time to be engaging in obstructionism for the sake of partisanship.

  44. #94
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Jack: Blah blah blah... more deflections, more distortions. The economy expanded and is showing stronger signs of job growth, including two months with job growth reaching 200,000. "The economy sucks", "The President didn't lay out a plan"... are just more of the same old falsehoods. He did lay out a plan. Get some facts please and not the same old distortions.

    READ the actual fucking report please. Economic growth is being visible in every sector of the economy. In the other thread, I posted articles regarding leaps in consumer confidence and business spending.

    You're comparing baking a cake in an EasyBake(r) oven to one baked in a regular kitchen oven.
    What a bullshit analogy. Get something real please. GDP growth is likely to be above 3% for 2013... perhaps greater.

    This entire thread was about harping on about the "economy dying". The economy is expanding and growing at a solid pace. Deal with the reality!
    Last edited by GiancarloC; February 19th, 2013 at 01:36 PM.

  45. #95

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    ^^

    Now you're just dreaming.

    I wish it wasn't dreaming -- we need growth.

  46. #96
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    ^^

    Now you're just dreaming.

    I wish it wasn't dreaming -- we need growth.
    The slow quarter was largely the result of the manmade fiscal cliff which was a lot of financial uncertainty because your party wouldn't negotiate like adults until the deadline was flashing red.

    Now as growth continues you will proceed to not talk about the economy whatsoever or give any credit to Obama.

  47. #97

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    No, the contraction was because of a fiscal cliff. That was all spin -- Obama made fiscal cliff occurs March 1 - and won't show up for most until later.

    The problem is that our leader does not see a problem. Do you think GWB envisioned 9/11 -- he didn't --- but had to adjust his presidency to the issue at hand, not what he initially wanted to accomplish.

    You're going to have to do better than that.

  48. #98

    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Springer, several people have posted facts for you in this thread and in others about how wrong you are and you're just scampering from thread to thread trolling. You aren't paying attention to anything, just posting a bunch of shit that has nothing to do with reality.

    You're sickening.

  49. #99
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    No, the contraction was because of a fiscal cliff. That was all spin -- Obama made fiscal cliff occurs March 1 - and won't show up for most until later.

    The problem is that our leader does not see a problem. Do you think GWB envisioned 9/11 -- he didn't --- but had to adjust his presidency to the issue at hand, not what he initially wanted to accomplish.

    You're going to have to do better than that.
    Yeah you're right Jack. A President who virtually campaigned on the economy doesn't see the problem at all.

    You see whatever you want to see. Please post something actually worth responding to.

  50. #100
    GiancarloC
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    Re: Economy Dies in 4th Quarter -- Annual Rate of 0.1% GDP

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    No, the contraction was because of a fiscal cliff. That was all spin -- Obama made fiscal cliff occurs March 1 - and won't show up for most until later.

    The problem is that our leader does not see a problem. Do you think GWB envisioned 9/11 -- he didn't --- but had to adjust his presidency to the issue at hand, not what he initially wanted to accomplish.

    You're going to have to do better than that.
    What a wrong, totally FALSE response. The fiscal cliff is all spin? It was immediate and most of the cuts were immediate if there was nothing done. Our leader most certainly does see issues in the economy, but you keep posting outright falsehoods about both this country and the economy that need to be called out on. Yes, very sickening.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    ^^

    Now you're just dreaming.

    I wish it wasn't dreaming -- we need growth.
    WE ARE HAVING FUCKING GROWTH. THE FIGURES I POSTED THAT SHOW CLEARS GROWTH. I'm dreaming? Two months of job growth hitting 200,000 and that looks to continue. Give me a fucking break.''

    The 4th quarter was a one off. It wasn't really because of the fiscal cliff, but rather a draw down in government spending and business inventories.

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