Fitness people who think they know everything about health, chemistry and biology piss me off!

[youfiad]

So I got into a discussion last night with some guy that I talk to on facebook who is a fitness coach. He's normally a very nice guy and we normally get alone just fine, but he often posts things like this,

"I sometimes hear from people who question the safety of the "health and fitness industry - supplements" - I wonder if they drink Gatorade.

They put the taste of the product over the health of the consumer...

Brominated vegetable oil, a synthetic chemical that has been patented in Europe as a flame retardant, will no longer double as an ingredient in Gatorade sports drinks.

Molly Carter, a spokeswoman for Gatorade owner PepsiCo Inc., said the company has been considering the move for more than a year, working on a way to take out the ingredient without affecting the flavor of the drink."


Now, I'm no expert in the safety and chemicals that they put into Gatorade, but given his past posts, I was not surprised, after doing a little google searching on the chemicals, to find that they have been approved for safe giving to humans. His main argument was that it is used as a flame retardant so why on earth would we drink it? I responded with, "Well, we use water as a flame extinguisher, so I'm going to stop drinking that." Although the intent of my comment was obviously to point out how chemicals that have a crazy use, doesn't mean that it's necessarily harmful to humans. During our conversation he also brought up propylene gylcol (which is used as anti-freeze), and also growth hormones in animals. Now, I claimed the same thing, there is absolutely no evidence to show that these cause harm in humans.

My whole beef with people who make these claims is that they aren't science people, but they do appeal to a large unscientific community. The same people who believe that the government is feeding us unsafe agents in our food are the same people who claim that the government has and is withholding the cure to cancer, HIV, diabetes, and other common diseases because there is so much money to be made off treatment. They are all just a bunch of conspiracy theorists that shouldn't be allowed to speak.

That's all to my rant, please feel free to comment now

[borg69unimatrix]

You're cute when you're angry.

[youfiad]

You're cute when you're angry.

I get super super super mad when people who claim to know all about science but are merely just puppets of conspiracy theorists, emotionally driven in their arguments.

[borg69unimatrix]

Truth isn't black and white. Couldn't there be some grey area where you're both right? Products are recalled all the time, and some products are intended to be consumed in moderation.

[T-Rexx]

I feel your pain.

Fitness people are often a little crazy. I follow a bunch of these guys on Facebook and Twitter. They often photograph their meals and post the photos to their accounts, which has always struck me as slightly humorous.

They will respect the advice of the teenager at General Nutrition more than that of their own physicians. Because the teenager will tell them what they want to hear, and their doctors will only give them the truth.

They typically need badly to believe in the fantasy that they have discovered a secret universe over which they have power by way of special knowledge - and which the scientific people deny out of a conspiracy to prevent people from improving.

It's a weird psychology.

[youfiad]

There's a difference of being right, and being right for the wrong reasons. Of course more information could come out about GMOs or brominated vegetable oil or proylene glycole or artificial sweeteners that isn't currently available, but until then, people should not argue from ignorance, but rather, do some actual lab research.. Of course you're right with moderation, but the chemicals that they put into these products are much below the safe consumption level. Everything you put into your body can kill you, even water. The point. When I pointed this out to him, he just reverted to more crazy talking. Argh.. Stupidity should be outlawed.

[xbuzzerx]

I get super super super mad when people who claim to know all about science but are merely just puppets of conspiracy theorists, emotionally driven in their arguments.

There's definitely a "streak" to the health & fitness 'crowd' where they think a chemical is bad just because it's a chemical. I hear all these vague things like "the chemicals we're putting in our bodies.." and to be sure some of them are bad, but it sounds like he's just kneejerking that because it's a chemical it must be terrible for you.

What kills me is how people go on and on about drinks/bottled water/chemicals in drinks but when you go into a grocery store if you aren't buying produce or the very most rudimentary basic food items, good luck finding anything not almost literally frosted in high fructose corn syrup. At least in the U.S.

[youfiad]

There's definitely a "streak" to the health & fitness 'crowd' where they think a chemical is bad just because it's a chemical. I hear all these vague things like "the chemicals we're putting in our bodies.." and to be sure some of them are bad, but it sounds like he's just kneejerking that because it's a chemical it must be terrible for you.

What kills me is how people go on and on about drinks/bottled water/chemicals in drinks but when you go into a grocery store if you aren't buying produce or the very most rudimentary basic food items, good luck finding anything not almost literally frosted in high fructose corn syrup. At least in the U.S.

What I'm surprised about is how, if you make false claims about a person that can effect their life it's called defamation and is illegal. However, when you make false claims about products, which can effect MANY MANY MANY people, it's perfectly legal.

[Hard-up1]

I think the best evidence you could mount is to post a pic; that's show 'em!





Silly crushes aside, your point is well made. Sharing pseudo-science, or even real fitness science, is not welcome when it is shared in a condescending way.

[cityboy-stl]

You must admit that things like "propylene gylcol", "brominated vegetable oil", "glycerol ester of wood rosin" do not sound very appetizing. I've never seen a recipe that calls for such chemicals and you cannot buy them in the grocery store spice rack as stand-alone food items.

Thus, there is the problem; you're eating a disgusting sounding ingredient that you would never use in your own home-made food. People become skeptical of these chemicals because "I have no idea what is it, I have no idea why it's there in the first place, it is completely unnatural, it sounds awful and if they put it in anti-freeze or fire retardant who knows what's doing to my insides".

Whether you agree or not that that these things might be harmful, that is the issue and people are afraid of the stuff.

[borg69unimatrix]

I seem to recall Oprah getting into trouble for talking bad about beef. Talking bad about products can get you in trouble too.

[mitchymo]

The idea of a 'synthetic chemical' doesn't SOUND healthy, so to a fitness freak, its bound to be thrice the worry.

I'd just remind him that he is actually ingesting REAL poisonous chemicals whenever he munches on potatoes, rhubarb, white button mushrooms, kidney beans, castor beans, cherries, almonds and apricots...to name but a few. All these have poisons of one sort or another in them.

[youfiad]

[QUOTE=Hard-up1;8665844]I think the best evidence you could mount is to post a pic; that's show 'em!





Silly crushes aside, your point is well made. Sharing pseudo-science, or even real fitness science, is not welcome when it is shared in a condescending way.[/QUOTE]

Well, I am all for being condescending about something if you have the right to do it. I am often condescending to people who say stupid things. I don't think that he was being condescending however, just annoying.

[refujiunderground]

you talking about the broscientists? tell me about it. they swear because they go to the gym, go to bodybuilding.com, drink a protein shake, weight gainer, supplements and etc that that they know exactly what they're talking about but they don't know shit. the funny thing is some of those supplements, weight gainers, protein shakes, and etc actually have tons of shit inside them too that would make these guys get scared out of their minds like "holy shit. THIS thing that is found in landfills is in my protein shake" BUT yet that benefits of gaining muscles outweighs the cons such as having some foreign metal shit in their system. they still drink it anyway. they would much rather have the protein shake than to eat some protein rich diet because it's inexpensive and easier than going to the supermarket, buying the food and cooking it.

me personally, it is what it is. death is inevitable. no matter what or how much you drink, eat, smoke or whatever. you can't stop fate. there's plenty of things that they put in food and drinks that they sure as hell ain't telling anybody even the tap water coming out the sink ain't even safe regardless if you wanna boil it or not. it's a battle that can't be won.

[Hard-up1]

Well, I am all for being condescending about something if you have the right to do it. I am often condescending to people who say stupid things. I don't think that he was being condescending however, just annoying.

Fair enough. Was hard to tell. Retracted.

[youfiad]

You must admit that things like "propylene gylcol", "brominated vegetable oil", "glycerol ester of wood rosin" do not sound very appetizing. I've never seen a recipe that calls for such chemicals and you cannot buy them in the grocery store spice rack as stand-alone food items.

Thus, there is the problem; you're eating a disgusting sounding ingredient that you would never use in your own home-made food. People become skeptical of these chemicals because "I have no idea what is it, I have no idea why it's there in the first place, it is completely unnatural, it sounds awful and if they put it in anti-freeze or fire retardant who knows what's doing to my insides".

Whether you agree or not that that these things might be harmful, that is the issue and people are afraid of the stuff.

Brominated vegetable oil and propylene glycol are just the scientific name for them. Acetic acid and ascorbic acid don't sound appetizing, but we readily consume them and are natural biproducts. There are thousands of chemicals that you consume and that make up your broccoli. It's not just a uniform, homogenous vegetable..... You'll find vitamins, proteins, and minerals inside it with equally disgusting names.

[frankfrank]

Brominated vegetable oil, a synthetic chemical that has been patented in Europe as a flame retardant, will no longer double as an ingredient in Gatorade sports drinks.

My whole beef with people who make these claims is that they aren't science people, but they do appeal to a large unscientific community. The same people who believe that the government is feeding us unsafe agents in our food are the same people who claim that the government has and is withholding the cure to cancer, HIV, diabetes, and other common diseases because there is so much money to be made off treatment. They are all just a bunch of conspiracy theorists

This THREAD is a flame-free zone, because a flame retardant has been mentioned.

And yes, not to mention the highly-explosive NITROGLYCERINE, which is a very effective treatment for some kinds of heart disease, and that's been around as long as I can remember. My Dad was taking it in 1970, I think.

Or, for that matter, people who are taking warfarin [RAT POISON] as a blood thinner, another effective remedy.

conspiracy theories, though...I'm one of those who believes there is often (or at least sometimes) some part of truth in those theories. I'm on the "far left" and it is said that people who are far left or right are more likely to believe conspiracy theories than those who are in the middle/centrist. The reasons to believe these theories may have different reasons between right and left, such as the conspiracy-theory justifications to pass all these new voter laws in recent years.

But, "Just because you're paranoid, doesn't always mean they aren't out to get you."

There's definitely a "streak" to the health & fitness 'crowd' where they think a chemical is bad just because it's a chemical. I hear all these vague things like "the chemicals we're putting in our bodies.." and to be sure some of them are bad, but it sounds like he's just kneejerking that because it's a chemical it must be terrible for you.

What kills me is how people go on and on about drinks/bottled water/chemicals in drinks but when you go into a grocery store if you aren't buying produce or the very most rudimentary basic food items, good luck finding anything not almost literally frosted in high fructose corn syrup. At least in the U.S.

Well yeah, DUH...even WATER is a chemical.

I look carefully for things with HFCS in them, so that I can avoid them. There are a few exceptions, though the only exception I can currently think of: Ritz Crackers. I only consider them because HFCS is like the 6th or 7th ingredient or something, so not a huge component.

You don't even want to THINK about the current ingredients in chocolate toppings/syrup (for ice cream, etc.) - Nearly everything you can commonly buy is complete crap. For example, the ingredients in what is considered to be the "definitive" chocolate syrup:

high fructose corn syrup; corn syrup; water; cocoa; sugar; contains 2% or less of: potassium sorbate...

I remember about 20 years ago when it was DELICIOUS ("good enough to DRINK!!"), and the ingredients were much more healthy though never really healthy. It may have always had corn syrup in it, but not the HFCS kind which I believe is a more modern invention. (When did HFCS start...in the 1980's?) Not only that, but the "old" taste simply isn't there anymore. I did recently find "Hershey's Nutri-Milk Mix" with much better ingredients, but I had to find it in Mexico, and it tastes better than the current Hershey's available in the USA.

[unloadonme]

The idea of a 'synthetic chemical' doesn't SOUND healthy, so to a fitness freak, its bound to be thrice the worry.

I'd just remind him that he is actually ingesting REAL poisonous chemicals whenever he munches on potatoes, rhubarb, white button mushrooms, kidney beans, castor beans, cherries, almonds and apricots...to name but a few. All these have poisons of one sort or another in them.

I'm not sure a synthetic v non-synthetic argument will get you very far. Many synthetic compounds have pharmacological properties which make them life savers. Many naturally occurring compounds are highly toxic.

You're right to say that many of those foodstuffs contain poisons. The important thing is to eat sensibly. Eat too much salt or drink too much water and you die.

[cynicus]

Forgive me, but I always associate "fitness trainers" with people and IQ's under 100. What kind of salaries do you think they make and why would their bodies be more important than their brains? I don't mean this as a flame, but simply as a query. Why would you accept any of their advice before checking with your MD?

[youfiad]

Forgive me, but I always associate "fitness trainers" with people and IQ's under 100. What kind of salaries do you think they make and why would their bodies be more important than their brains? I don't mean this as a flame, but simply as a query. Why would you accept any of their advice before checking with your MD?

Well, personally, I would never trust an ordinary MD with anything specific, that's not their jobs to know that stuff. I would only trust a specialist who specializes in nutrition with these questions. A lot of health buffs aren't necessarily stupid, I know many who are extremely intelligent people, but sometimes take things a little too extreme.

[M10000]

I seem to recall Oprah getting into trouble for talking bad about beef. Talking bad about products can get you in trouble too.

Thats how Dr. Phil was 'born'. He advised her during the trial.

[maxpowr9]

My ex was a fitness nut and it kind of frustrated me. Mind you, I have two friends that are both MDs: one in physical therapy and another in nutrition [I had a crush on the latter for a while until his albinism got full blown. Mhm that Jewfro.] I am for a healthy lifestyle but if you want to address men and their obsession with fitness, it is quite similar to sex addiction in that they both get off on the endorphin rush from each activity.

However with food, I know things are quite weird. Take for example aspartame which is an artificial sweetener aka sweet n low. Aspartame is one of the compounds used to make Kevlar, which is what body armor is made of.

There is a difference between high fructose corn syrup and sugar but between refined sugar and "natural" sugar, it's all empty calories either way.

[G-Lexington]

I've occasionally joked about following only the health and nutrition advice that's given/reposted by my Facebook friends. From what I understand, I'd have to cut out roughly 97% of the things I eat or otherwise use. ("FABRIC SOFTENER IS LINKED TO ALZHEIMER'S!" "POPCORN IS 100% GENETICALLY ENGINEERED AND WILL MESS WITH YOUR DNA!" "NON-ORGANIC APPLES LINKED TO BRAIN CANCER!") The only things I think I'd be allowed to use for everything from here on out are pot, lemons, and kale. With the last two being optional.

Lex

[JP.]

I had one friend from my old days in community college; he has fitness major and into nutritionist branch, so he's pretty much a guy you described.
But the good thing about him, he's rarely speak of his knowledge if wasn't asked. He's not pushy, pretty calm and did I mention...
"hot" too

I think it has to do with their character- wise.

[Nishin]

You must admit that things like "propylene gylcol", "brominated vegetable oil", "glycerol ester of wood rosin" do not sound very appetizing. I've never seen a recipe that calls for such chemicals and you cannot buy them in the grocery store spice rack as stand-alone food items.

[...]

I love propylene glycol... I consume it daily in a "camel" flavour

[teadrinker]

Chemicals! Toxins! So much crap is talked about, with people entirely unversed in the niceties of scientific (or simply rational) thinking. I'm with the OP on this one.

-T.

[blackbeltninja]

A good way to gently remind these people that they don't know everything about everything is to casually point out that "natural isn't always good. I mean, how many times do you hear of people dying from natural causes? That stuff will kill you!"

Say it with a smile, all tongue in cheek and all.

-d-

[Kien]

Broscience: Broscience is the predominant brand of reasoning in bodybuilding circles where the anecdotal reports of jacked dudes are considered more credible than scientific research.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...&defid=3259760

It exists, people.

[RazorzEdge88]

There are a lot of deluded Alex Jones followers out there.

[star-warrior]

Milk is the wonder drink, quicker than Gatorade, and the combination of nutrients and PROTEINs helps your muscles get recovery quicker.

[JockBoy87]

Well you are obviously capable of your own research, so why worry about your obnoxious friend?

[Nishin]

Milk is the wonder drink, quicker than Gatorade, and the combination of nutrients and PROTEINs helps your muscles get recovery quicker.

Drinking more than 3 glasses of it/day promotes cancer though ...

[Telstra]

So I got into a discussion last night with some guy that I talk to on facebook who is a fitness coach. He's normally a very nice guy and we normally get alone just fine, but he often posts things like this,

"I sometimes hear from people who question the safety of the "health and fitness industry - supplements" - I wonder if they drink Gatorade.

They put the taste of the product over the health of the consumer...

Brominated vegetable oil, a synthetic chemical that has been patented in Europe as a flame retardant, will no longer double as an ingredient in Gatorade sports drinks.

Molly Carter, a spokeswoman for Gatorade owner PepsiCo Inc., said the company has been considering the move for more than a year, working on a way to take out the ingredient without affecting the flavor of the drink."


Now, I'm no expert in the safety and chemicals that they put into Gatorade, but given his past posts, I was not surprised, after doing a little google searching on the chemicals, to find that they have been approved for safe giving to humans. His main argument was that it is used as a flame retardant so why on earth would we drink it? I responded with, "Well, we use water as a flame extinguisher, so I'm going to stop drinking that." Although the intent of my comment was obviously to point out how chemicals that have a crazy use, doesn't mean that it's necessarily harmful to humans. During our conversation he also brought up propylene gylcol (which is used as anti-freeze), and also growth hormones in animals. Now, I claimed the same thing, there is absolutely no evidence to show that these cause harm in humans.

My whole beef with people who make these claims is that they aren't science people, but they do appeal to a large unscientific community. The same people who believe that the government is feeding us unsafe agents in our food are the same people who claim that the government has and is withholding the cure to cancer, HIV, diabetes, and other common diseases because there is so much money to be made off treatment. They are all just a bunch of conspiracy theorists that shouldn't be allowed to speak.

That's all to my rant, please feel free to comment now

He asked a ligit question and your responds was abit rude.
Your responds weren't scientific either.

[mitchymo]

Milk is the wonder drink, quicker than Gatorade, and the combination of nutrients and PROTEINs helps your muscles get recovery quicker.

I loves me milk, but too much calcium consumption leads to 'burning pee' as calcium crystals build up then catch the inside of your dick as you pee them out. It can sting for a couple of pees.

[Telstra]

I loves me milk, but too much calcium consumption leads to 'burning pee' as calcium crystals build up then catch the inside of your dick as you pee them out. It can sting for a couple of pees.

does calcium crystals clog blood vessels? hence might cause stroke ?

[mitchymo]

does calcium crystals clog blood vessels? hence might cause stroke ?

I dunno about that, but the body will only absorb so much naturally before the excess finds the routine way out the body. I think fat and cholestoral are the biggest stroke risks??

[JockBoy87]

I loves me milk, but too much calcium consumption leads to 'burning pee' as calcium crystals build up then catch the inside of your dick as you pee them out. It can sting for a couple of pees.

Ouch :\

Stay away from plants high in calcium oxalate, such as rhubarb, or calcium citrate, which may have a higher bioavailability than other calcium compounds.

[Telstra]

Drinking more than 3 glasses of it/day promotes cancer though ...

Milk promotes cancer? mmm need to becareful then.
I drink milk daily with pure cocco and sometimes with coffee.

[JockBoy87]

Milk promotes cancer? mmm need to becareful then.
I drink milk daily with pure cocco and sometimes with coffee.

In fact, better not consume anything but deoinized water

[xbuzzerx]

We've grown up so much with the message of "milk: it does a body good" that we forget that ultimately... milk is something designed by nature to help a friggin baby cow become a huge fat adult cow. We were never 'supposed' to drink it really by nature imo.

Too much of anything can be bad.

[sixthson]

We've grown up so much with the message of "milk: it does a body good" that we forget that ultimately... milk is something designed by nature to help a friggin baby cow become a huge fat adult cow. We were never 'supposed' to drink it really by nature imo.

Too much of anything can be bad.

Wouldn't that then go for all dairy products too, like cheese, yogurt, ice cream?

[Telstra]

In fact, better not consume anything but deoinized water

Can i make a thread about a really fat guy that i massaged afew days ago.
I think i felt "crystal calcium" formed all over his body. He said they are fat deposits.

[mitchymo]

We've grown up so much with the message of "milk: it does a body good" that we forget that ultimately... milk is something designed by nature to help a friggin baby cow become a huge fat adult cow.

This is why whole milk is for growing kids, semi-skimmed for healthy adults, and skimmed for the elderly is recommended.

I still drink whole milk. If it gives me cancer, i can blame it on smoking

[Nishin]

I only have whole milk in my white russians

[dereperez]

I drink non-fat/skimmed milk these days. Somewhere around my teen years I've developed a distaste for whole milk. Just something about it...I think it's the after-taste.

[Kien]

I only drink soy milk.

I like the chocolate soy milk, but it makes my tum tum upset in the mornin'

[MattClaimer]

Some people just feel that they HAVE to be right, and there is only one side, THEIRS, to any "argument" they engage in. If the majority of people out there would unclench their assholes a little and be more willing to look at issues of any topic, matter or subject, from BOTH sides, and realize that "theirs" is not the ONLY viable option or case, the world would be a much better place.

Your point to him was very valid, and makes sense. I mean after all, we ARE still here as a species, even though all these supposed terrible, awful, chemicals and substances are being ingested, breathed, transferred, etc. into our bodies every second of every day.
Just because it has a "big" name and isn't readily available to be purchased at Walmart or Rite-Aid, doesn't mean it's deadly and the end of the world as we know it if it is released on humanity. lol

Yes, there are things that are definitely bad for us, but if you want me to believe that something specific, something that has not been reputed to be deadly or toxic with no argument from the opposing side, is bad or not bad, then come to me with fact, proof, stats and research, and even if I am weighing in on the opposite side, I will STILL take the time to examine all those points and take them into consideration before I just assume you're still wrong and I'm absolutely right.

I've been known to believe strongly in things and have had people come to me and show me an argument for their side, in a civil, intelligent way, and in the end find that I changed my thoughts completely after being educated more and informed. Unfortunately, not everyone is willing to do that, and they're going to be obstinate and unchanging, regardless.

In those cases, I just take the high ground and walk away and leave them yammering their stupidity to those who will continue to listen to them.

[borg69unimatrix]

I only drink soy milk.

I like the chocolate soy milk, but it makes my tum tum upset in the mornin'

Isn't soy milk supposed to be filled with female hormones ? Seems like I read that on JUB fairly recently.

[MattClaimer]

I only drink soy milk.

I like the chocolate soy milk, but it makes my tum tum upset in the mornin'

Probably because it has brominated fire retardant vegetable oil anti-freeze in it.

[Telstra]

Skim milk taste horrific.
I won't drink it.