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  1. #151
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    Re: whay has the Christian myth got such a magnetic pull on some people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nemothepanda View Post
    I just don't understand why someone would actively be part of a religion that so stigmatizes their feelings towards men. Why pray to a deity who says that homosexuality is an abomination that has no place in the world to the point of being a death sentence?
    The word "abomination" isn't a very good translation because it has emotional baggage on it that doesn't belong to the original term. That original is a technical term which doesn't indicate anything evil or wrong, just something placed off limits.

    It's also a term subject to change, as God demonstrates when He tells Peter in Acts that he can eat anything he wants: among the list of things eaten by humans are foods listed in the Old Testament as "abomination", but here God is saying that designation is done with.

    Given that later in the same book the Apostles tell the entire church, all believers, that Leviticus and all the rest don't apply (except perhaps to Jewish Christians at the time), it is reasonable to presume that male-male sex (if that was ever all-inclusive) is no longer listed as "abomination".

    I respectfully submit that just as Jesus and Paul set forth that certain Old Testament rules were given for human reasons (as Jesus says it, "because of the hardness of your hearts"), we can reckon any prohibition against gay sex the same. It may thus now be considered null and void, and the only operative guide left is the admonition to be faithful, i.e. no promiscuity or cheating.


    As for why the Christian message has such a pull, its because most people are aware that they are to a great extent fuck-ups, and thus in need of a repair job or rebuild.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  2. #152
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    Re: whay has the Christian myth got such a magnetic pull on some people?

    Quote Originally Posted by ludolfo View Post
    That reply of mine sounds muddled, and not clear so I am gonna try to be clearer. OK, The Christian belief is that nature is already sinful.
    Nope -- just that nature is scarred. If you mean human nature, yes, the position is that human nature is sinful, which merely means that it's focused on self and does not live up to its full potential.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  3. #153
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    Re: whay has the Christian myth got such a magnetic pull on some people?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    As an atheist, I believe science has not explained our lives fully. Whether it can has yet to be claimed, never mind proven.

    It is also apparent that religions have pretended to explain our lives fully, attributing, according to their imagination, purpose, origins, obligations, and any manner of other qualities which should properly be called "guesses" instead of "revelations" or "commandments" or "divine laws."
    In reality, Christianity doesn't claim in the least to "explain our lives fully" -- only to supply some very critical information about our real situation.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  4. #154
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    Re: whay has the Christian myth got such a magnetic pull on some people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Smith View Post
    One of the earliest individuals to truly persecute gay people, in Christian Europe, was Theodosius I. That was the least of his crimes, but it did set a precedent that we are still untangling the consequences of today. Theodosius was not a nice man. St. Ambrose was generally appalled by him. However, Theodosius I ordered gay men to be sentenced to death by burning.
    There's an pair of understatements!

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  5. #155
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    Re: whay has the Christian myth got such a magnetic pull on some people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Smith View Post
    It was actually a philosophical movement that really led to gay people being persecuted so widely, though. Under the idea of individuals like Thomas Aquinas, many governments outlawed a number of things that were deemed "unnatural," and homosexuality was on the list. This was not a theological movement as much as it was a philosophical movement in the context of a culture that was largely dominated by Christianity.

    History is not as cut-and-dried as it is often made out to be.
    More and more I think of Aquinas as a heretic. He exalted Aristotle's philosophy and his own paths of reasoning over scripture, a route that led to the extreme condemnation of homosexuality.

    He could have used a serious dose of ancient Eastern/near-eastern thinking, where things can be two things (or more) at once.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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