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  1. #1
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    "It's just the internet"

    Recently, I posted in a thread about how much I dislike that expression because it devalues us. Certainly there are fakes behind some avatars, but I have to believe most are real, even with all the anonymity or harmless, honest secrets.
    Just recently I was reading a thread in which Pegasus posted. Do you remember him? He was a sweet, kind man who shared his cancer experience with us. His last post said he was having some issues both with the disease and the treatment, but he was still hopeful. Then no more communication. Someone posted of his death later. So, I decided to visited our Garden of Memories here at JUB. If you have not been there, you should check it out. Unfortunately, the original posts were lost in the JUB transition, but you can still get the feel for some of our JUB brothers who have died. One of them, Kristof, died at his own hand. His partner of 20+ years sent a message telling us what happened and he shared how much JUB meant to his partner. Kristoff was homebound due to mental illness and fear. Jub meant so much to him in the months before his death. Apparently it gave him something to look forward to each day.
    That sounds to me like more than just the internet. That sounds like real people interacting with other real people even if not face to face. I suspect in many ways, people can get to know one another on an even deeper level than they can in real life.
    I have had people at JUB share things with me that they have not shared even with best friends. I like to think opening up gave them the courage to then share with others. Maybe all of us have been stepping stones in that way.
    How many times have we heard JUBbers tell us that we have helped them on their journey out of the closet? How much late night loneliness has been eased by people being here for others? I will bet even a few lives have been saved because of an encouraging, caring word from a fellow JUBber.
    I often think about some of our elder JUB members who no longer post. I wonder why. Did we ignore them until they couldn't stand to visit anymore? Are they no longer with us?
    Have the hot newbies with the precocious sex lives who so often dominate the forums before they burn out as quickly as they arrived somehow caused these older members to feel invisible and unwanted. I often think of the nice man from Nice and Golliwog. Did we fail them? Did I?
    When someone complains that they have been deceived by someone on the internet, there will always be those who say "Oh well, it's just the internet. You can't take it too seriously". But what about when someone like Ashy tells us of his struggles with depression and addiction. Do we then blow him off because he is just part of the internet? Or do we show him some personal care and concern?
    We can choose to see the internet as just a playground where we play with others until we are tired of them and then move on to the new guy on the block or we can see it as another aspect of our lives where we care, argue, make-up, laugh, cry and behave like human being.

    Each of us comes to JUB for different reasons. Some come her for serious reasons because they are in need. Many of us come here for a laugh and a little fun. But if JUB is just the internet and it serves no greater purpose than just amusement, then why should we bother coming here at all. Afterall, as of late, there has been more ugliness than humor, anyway.

    **I know, I know. TL/DR
    Last edited by sixthson; January 23rd, 2013 at 05:01 PM.
    Everyone wants to be heard. No one wants to listen.

  2. #2
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    I have to agree. I have not been here long enough to have memories like that, but I've already made real friends with whom I communicate outside JUB as well, and it definitely fills a lot of my free time.

    But then again, I am of the first Internet Generation, the kids that grew up without it but it was introduced to us in our mid/late teens. I had always been a popular kid - in my neighborhood (yes, we played on the streets, I pity the kids of today who don't know what that's like!), and in school - but I had never really belonged with the other kids, we were just bound by circumstance. I met my first friends in an online forum about literature. That was 12 years ago, and even though I've spent the last 4 on the other side of the ocean, whenever I go back home, those people are still there for me.

    So for me the Internet has created bonds stronger than real life. Of course, they only started online and quickly translated to real life, but it would still never have happened without the Internet. So whoever thinks "it doesn't count because it's online" is a naive fool. And that applies to all the pretentious douchebags who think they can be assholes to people on the hook up sites, and still think of themselves as really nice guys, because "they'd never be like that in real life, it's just Grindr"...
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  3. #3
    The gay gargoyle G-Lexington's Avatar
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    I won't argue the main thrusts of the thread, as I agree with them for the most part. But I'll add two thoughts that I'll lay aside of yours.

    * One thing I've learned in my 43 years on this planet is that "things were better before". What things? EVERYthing. Before what? Well, before...this. Before whatever is happening is happening. We look backward with a built-in fond smile, and at the present with built-in cynicism. God, JUB was so cool before, y'know, THIS happened. You know, a couple years ago, when it was cool.

    Of course, a couple years ago, we were all saying the same thing. JUB was better before. Some mainstays could probably bring up LinkMeAllOver as "back when this website was good".

    Point here - at one point, many of the JUBbers here will look back fondly at January 2013 as a great time to be on JUB. And in three years, we might look back at some of the people who post every day today, and wonder what the hell happened to them, or feel bad when we find out they're no longer here. So yes, look back fondly at what happened in the past. But don't forget to appreciate the present. And despite what you might think, there's plenty to like in the present.

    Which brings me to...

    * JUB isn't any one "thing". It's a ton of things happening at once. I often compare it to a massive party in a huge mansion. Sometimes there's a lot of great conversation going on. Sometimes there's a big naked frolic in the hot tub. Sometimes there are arguments and fights going on. Sometimes people wander off into side rooms to have sex.

    And sometimes, it's just kind of a drag.

    When that happens, I either try to make my own fun, and see if others feel like joining in...or I just head out. I leave the party and "go home". Sometimes I stay away for a hour. Sometimes I stay away for a couple days. Once I stayed home for something like a year. But I'll come back, stick my head in, see if I'm enjoying the vibe better now. And if not, I'll head back home and try again later.

    I'd heartily suggest both techniques for those who aren't enjoying their turn here today. Or tomorrow. Or next week. Start a new thread. Spread some positivity. Let's get a fun conversation going. Or if you can't bring yourself to do that, that's fine - "head home". Take a day off, or two, or seven. Then come back and see if you like where things are headed.

    Lex

  4. #4
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    Perhaps I was unclear, but I never intended it to come across as something about the good old days.
    Everyone wants to be heard. No one wants to listen.

  5. #5
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    I agree. People tend to filter the bad and remember the good when the good outweighed the bad. But in the present, even when that's the case, they still fixate on the bad.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  6. #6
    The gay gargoyle G-Lexington's Avatar
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    Quote Originally Posted by sixthson View Post
    Perhaps I was unclear, but I never intended it to come across as something about the good old days.
    As I said - I wasn't responding directly to your post. Simply adding my own thoughts to it.

    Lex

  7. #7
    mamónes Taz's Avatar
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    Great post sixthson! Some food for thought indeed.
    You show courage the brave dream of

    Gallop on my old warhorse

  8. #8
    The 'Eyes' have it
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    Quote Originally Posted by sixthson View Post
    Apparently it gave him something to look forward to each day.
    That sounds to me like more than just the internet. That sounds like real people interacting with other real people even if not face to face. I suspect in many ways, people can get to know one another on an even deeper level than they can in real life.
    That applies to me as well. Being virtually housebound, too, and JUB is one of my major sources of contact with people. To a lot of people, it's 'just the internet'. To a lot of others, it's more like the only family we have.

  9. #9
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    Loved your post Sixthson and I totally agree. In fact-- it's almost odd you bring it up because I was just having a PM conversation with a certain nameless JUBBer about exactly that topic.

    Sure, the net has anonymity... that means you have to have a certain discretion when it comes to believing everything you are told, or accepting everything at face value. And it does change some people's behavior-- usually the people who want to act badly and anonymity lets them do it.

    But none of that changes that a chatroom or a forum or any online community ultimately comes down to a very large number of very real, very human people sitting behind monitors and keyboards, and that the only difference between that and interacting over a table with coffee on it is geography.

    I've always hated the term "it's just the internet." I've always hated when you tell someone about a friend online and they say "Oh, so not a real friend, right? Just someone on the computer?"

    I think when people have those attitudes about the net it's either a failure to understand that the net can just be another way like the telephone that you can communicate with people or... they're people who behave badly online and fall back on "it's just the internet" to defend it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    I agree. People tend to filter the bad and remember the good when the good outweighed the bad. But in the present, even when that's the case, they still fixate on the bad.
    I agree. And I think the insiders of almost any crowd, including offline fandoms or hobbies or whatever else, will always wax poetic about how "it used to be better/purer", before x. I think that's just something hardwired into us when we establish ranks, hierarchies and seniority. We remind people that we were here for something earlier, before the newer people, and we tend to romanticize it as having been better.

  10. #10
    JUB Addict loveguys72's Avatar
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    Can't say it better than this.

    Quote Originally Posted by G-Lexington View Post
    I won't argue the main thrusts of the thread, as I agree with them for the most part. But I'll add two thoughts that I'll lay aside of yours.

    * One thing I've learned in my 43 years on this planet is that "things were better before". What things? EVERYthing. Before what? Well, before...this. Before whatever is happening is happening. We look backward with a built-in fond smile, and at the present with built-in cynicism. God, JUB was so cool before, y'know, THIS happened. You know, a couple years ago, when it was cool.

    Of course, a couple years ago, we were all saying the same thing. JUB was better before. Some mainstays could probably bring up LinkMeAllOver as "back when this website was good".

    Point here - at one point, many of the JUBbers here will look back fondly at January 2013 as a great time to be on JUB. And in three years, we might look back at some of the people who post every day today, and wonder what the hell happened to them, or feel bad when we find out they're no longer here. So yes, look back fondly at what happened in the past. But don't forget to appreciate the present. And despite what you might think, there's plenty to like in the present.

    Which brings me to...

    * JUB isn't any one "thing". It's a ton of things happening at once. I often compare it to a massive party in a huge mansion. Sometimes there's a lot of great conversation going on. Sometimes there's a big naked frolic in the hot tub. Sometimes there are arguments and fights going on. Sometimes people wander off into side rooms to have sex.

    And sometimes, it's just kind of a drag.

    When that happens, I either try to make my own fun, and see if others feel like joining in...or I just head out. I leave the party and "go home". Sometimes I stay away for a hour. Sometimes I stay away for a couple days. Once I stayed home for something like a year. But I'll come back, stick my head in, see if I'm enjoying the vibe better now. And if not, I'll head back home and try again later.

    I'd heartily suggest both techniques for those who aren't enjoying their turn here today. Or tomorrow. Or next week. Start a new thread. Spread some positivity. Let's get a fun conversation going. Or if you can't bring yourself to do that, that's fine - "head home". Take a day off, or two, or seven. Then come back and see if you like where things are headed.

    Lex

  11. #11
    JUB Addict loveguys72's Avatar
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    Fortunately, you know the truth. That's all that matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by AshyPhoenix View Post
    This forum has, literally, saved my life at least twice now.

    For it to be debased as "just a gay porn forum" infuriates me.

  12. #12
    Dimples glasvegas's Avatar
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    JUB has given me a few companions, a best friend and a romance that impact my life. So, thank you JUB.

    Cheers, sixthson.

  13. #13

    Re: "It's just the internet"

    I know that some seem to use “It’s just the internet” as their war cry, and that’s not cool, but I also want to believe that most have good intentions when they offer, “It’s just the internet”, in an attempt to console/pacify.

    -----


    @ “The good ol’ days”

    I’m glad that this site still “works” for some. I’m glad that the site is still up and of some use.

    But, you know, just a few years ago, the number of viewers/visitors “now on” Hot Topics was always around 300 at any time of the day. That number started dwindling fast, and last it was shown, you wouldn’t find more than 80 people at any time.

    Now, that bit of information, number currently viewing this forum, is no longer visible – for a damn good reason.



    And, we used to see the owners of the site, JD and Seth, posting along with all of the mods on a regular basis - daily.

    Now, if you open the “show groups” page for Mods/Admis, any time of the day, you’ll find that even they (including the new owner) can’t be bothered to appear logged in to their own site.
    Last edited by Kahaih; January 23rd, 2013 at 08:33 PM.

  14. #14
    aww I wanted to explode looseliam's Avatar
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    JUB is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhoea - massive, difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind-boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it.

    I enjoy and have enjoyed the fakers, trolls, and the 'true-blues' alike. It happens in the 'real world' so why not online? There are those I fondly remember, and those I miss and more will come and go.

    I think here, as in life, many take things too seriously or give things too much thought. But I may be over-thinking a bit ;)

    Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day.
    Give a man religion, and he'll starve praying for a fish.

  15. #15
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    I remember reading an article about penpals. Penpals were very common 40 or 50 years ago, apparently. There were even penpal clubs where people could select a certain person based on a country, culture, religion, etc that might interest them.
    Many of these people corresponded for decades, sharing stories about their lives and families. Most never met each other and never had any expectations of meeting when they began the friendship. So, someone from Bigfork, Minnesota never expected to meet their panpal from Bergen, Norway. Travelling was not as common as today.
    The common theme seemed to be that the writers considered each other friends on an equal footing with those in their day to day lives. A friend is a friend, I guess.
    Everyone wants to be heard. No one wants to listen.

  16. #16
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    That applies to me as well. Being virtually housebound, too, and JUB is one of my major sources of contact with people. To a lot of people, it's 'just the internet'. To a lot of others, it's more like the only family we have.
    This "It's just the internet" is something I have been thinking about for some time. I recall someone being rude and disrespectful to you in recent months. I suspect one of the reasons they found it easy to do was because of this very thing. It didn't matter to them if they hurt you because you were just words on a screen, with no heart or soul.
    Everyone wants to be heard. No one wants to listen.

  17. #17
    JUB Addict maxpowr9's Avatar
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Loved your post Sixthson and I totally agree. In fact-- it's almost odd you bring it up because I was just having a PM conversation with a certain nameless JUBBer about exactly that topic.

    Sure, the net has anonymity... that means you have to have a certain discretion when it comes to believing everything you are told, or accepting everything at face value. And it does change some people's behavior-- usually the people who want to act badly and anonymity lets them do it.

    But none of that changes that a chatroom or a forum or any online community ultimately comes down to a very large number of very real, very human people sitting behind monitors and keyboards, and that the only difference between that and interacting over a table with coffee on it is geography.

    I've always hated the term "it's just the internet." I've always hated when you tell someone about a friend online and they say "Oh, so not a real friend, right? Just someone on the computer?"

    I think when people have those attitudes about the net it's either a failure to understand that the net can just be another way like the telephone that you can communicate with people or... they're people who behave badly online and fall back on "it's just the internet" to defend it.



    I agree. And I think the insiders of almost any crowd, including offline fandoms or hobbies or whatever else, will always wax poetic about how "it used to be better/purer", before x. I think that's just something hardwired into us when we establish ranks, hierarchies and seniority. We remind people that we were here for something earlier, before the newer people, and we tend to romanticize it as having been better.

    I hate quoting large text boxes but I agree. Even when I played WoW, I actually met up with some of the people I played with. It wasn't SaintKorgath the Deathknight but Alex from Tampa. It wasn't Sundar the Feral druid but Wendy from Halifax. It wasn't Awena the resto druid but Becky from San Diego.

    I've met each of those people face-to-face. So it isn't just "the internet" or "a game". Even in a game such as WoW, when you have a group that played nearly every week together for 2 years, it's hard to let new people into your clique.

    Hell I never shared the story of why my guild in WoW fell apart and it wasn't just because of Crapaclysm. The guildmaster had a batshit crazy girlfriend that he would defend like crazy when we all abhorred her with a passion. We would be raiding and him leading it and she would come on vent demanding that he come do some quests with her or demand we do shit for her because she is fucking the GM. One-by-one people trickled out of the guild and scattered to the winds because we could not deal with her anymore.

    That little bit shows that one person can completely destroy a community if they are not removed from it or agree to said community's code.

    At least on account with the "imposter" thing, that is why there is such a strong backlash against people pretending to be someone they are not. I still firmly believe that claiming someone's pictures as your own is theft and you should be banished from here. As I have said before, when they apologize, they are only sorry they got caught.

  18. #18
    On the Prowl weinerslav's Avatar
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    This was a really nice idea, to remember everyone that we are people from everywhere in the world, that have very different (or similar) lives, fears and joys. We all have our reasons, and if we stay it's because we find the support we need here. I haven't met someone I could call a real real friend, it's not a natural talent of mine and, in addition, I don't get the opportunity to stay much time very often, but as I told before, I read this forum for years before deciding to participate, and somehow I see many (all?) of the people here as friends, some of them aren't here no more, but since, I don't know, a long time ago, this is my community, everybody here is my gay friend that doesn't need to be addressed with gay as a constant reminder. For people that don't have a strong community around, and my city is very traditional and posh (and also very gay behind doors), this is really important, to feel home somewhere, even if that place is in the internet. This is the place where people don't wonder if I'm gay or not, that don't stare to try to find if that guy is my boyfriend or not or if I'm going to start spreading pink glitter all around! But it's not easy to be here sometimes, at some point I have the impression that half of the people ignores me and the other half hates me but I imagine that that impression is something that most of people already felt sometime... In the end, I keep coming, sometimes reading, sometimes writing, I go to a happy place where I belong.

  19. #19
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    Quote Originally Posted by weinerslav View Post
    This was a really nice idea, to remember everyone that we are people from everywhere in the world, that have very different (or similar) lives, fears and joys. We all have our reasons, and if we stay it's because we find the support we need here. I haven't met someone I could call a real real friend, it's not a natural talent of mine and, in addition, I don't get the opportunity to stay much time very often, but as I told before, I read this forum for years before deciding to participate, and somehow I see many (all?) of the people here as friends, some of them aren't here no more, but since, I don't know, a long time ago, this is my community, everybody here is my gay friend that doesn't need to be addressed with gay as a constant reminder. For people that don't have a strong community around, and my city is very traditional and posh (and also very gay behind doors), this is really important, to feel home somewhere, even if that place is in the internet. This is the place where people don't wonder if I'm gay or not, that don't stare to try to find if that guy is my boyfriend or not or if I'm going to start spreading pink glitter all around! But it's not easy to be here sometimes, at some point I have the impression that half of the people ignores me and the other half hates me but I imagine that that impression is something that most of people already felt sometime... In the end, I keep coming, sometimes reading, sometimes writing, I go to a happy place where I belong.
    Don't feel hated or ignored. Unless you are a JUB celeb or a popular kid with your own ratpack, most of us feel like outsiders at times. Just keep posting and let others get to know you.
    Everyone wants to be heard. No one wants to listen.

  20. #20
    On the Prowl weinerslav's Avatar
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    Quote Originally Posted by sixthson View Post
    Don't feel hated or ignored. Unless you are a JUB celeb or a popular kid with your own ratpack, most of us feel like outsiders at times. Just keep posting and let others get to know you.
    Oh, I'm aware of that, now!

    But that is not a bad thing, I honestly prefer that people don't expect much from me, I already have to deal with attention enough in my professional life, here I just want to be with my blanket, PJ and slippers looking like a grandma and pretending that tomorrow doesn't matter...
    Last edited by weinerslav; January 23rd, 2013 at 09:43 PM.

  21. #21
    Anders123
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    Dan, I'm really glad that you're so vocal about this now.

    When I was a newbie here, being accepted was of high importance to me, because I really didn't have that anywhere else at the time. Occasionally, I would empathise with another member who felt the same way I did (like an outsider), and you were actually one of the people who would put forth that JUB was just a place to have a little fun, and that it wasn't to be taken seriously. I know you meant well, but the truth is, JUB was a haven for me; when my father refused to speak to me after I came out, when my friends turned their backs on me, when my anxiety was at its peak, when I had nobody (and I mean nobody) to talk to. JUB wasn't just a place for me to come and have a bit of fun, it was something to hold onto when I had nothing else.

    I've met some truly incredible people here. Just last night I was IMing with a man whose impact on my life has been absolutely immeasurable; I am so much better for simply knowing him, and I wouldn't have had the opportunity to do that without this website. There are liars, and fakes, and manipulators, but I would say that a majority of the regulars around here are using JUB as a medium to connect with and learn from others.

    I will forever oppose the "it's just the internet" mentality, because despite the fact that I don't need JUB as a safe haven anymore, I don't even want to think about where I'd be, or even if I'd be, without it.

  22. #22

    Re: "It's just the internet"

    Quote Originally Posted by weinerslav View Post
    Oh, I'm aware of that, now!

    But that is not a bad thing, I honestly prefer that people don't expect much from me, I already have to deal with attention enough in my professional life, here I just want to be with my blanket, PJ and slippers looking like a grandma and pretending that tomorrow doesn't matter...
    Well . . . if you don’t post you won’t be seen . . . . and if you’re not seen you won’t be looking like anything . . .



    Good luck with that little predicament.

  23. #23
    In Loving Memory Lefty's Avatar
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    Quote Originally Posted by Anders123 View Post
    Dan, I'm really glad that you're so vocal about this now.

    When I was a newbie here, being accepted was of high importance to me, because I really didn't have that anywhere else at the time. Occasionally, I would empathise with another member who felt the same way I did (like an outsider), and you were actually one of the people who would put forth that JUB was just a place to have a little fun, and that it wasn't to be taken seriously. I know you meant well, but the truth is, JUB was a haven for me; when my father refused to speak to me after I came out, when my friends turned their backs on me, when my anxiety was at its peak, when I had nobody (and I mean nobody) to talk to. JUB wasn't just a place for me to come and have a bit of fun, it was something to hold onto when I had nothing else.

    I've met some truly incredible people here. Just last night I was IMing with a man whose impact on my life has been absolutely immeasurable; I am so much better for simply knowing him, and I wouldn't have had the opportunity to do that without this website. There are liars, and fakes, and manipulators, but I would say that a majority of the regulars around here are using JUB as a medium to connect with and learn from others.

    I will forever oppose the "it's just the internet" mentality, because despite the fact that I don't need JUB as a safe haven anymore, I don't even want to think about where I'd be, or even if I'd be, without it.
    Quite well said that. There are many good and meaningful folk here that have made this a little bit homey
    and share the ups/downs/fortunes of experience and opinion. Part Shrink, parent, concerned friend and
    interesting acquaintences not just overly gay sex voyeurs and smut talkers.

    I've watched you and several others grow here. Tried to help and in so doing learned. Whether it was
    the quality and quantity of the conversation or just knowing there was an ear. Sometimes just a bad joke
    when you need(ed) it.

    Not ever just a porn site. (although that isn't to bad either)
    Last edited by Lefty; January 23rd, 2013 at 10:17 PM.

  24. #24
    On the Prowl weinerslav's Avatar
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kahaih View Post
    Well . . . if you don’t post you won’t be seen . . . . and if you’re not seen you won’t be looking like anything . . .



    Good luck with that little predicament.
    Oh, but I don't want to say I wont participate, I just understand better how this works and I don't feel the need to cry for attention. We all are multidimensional and I prefer people to learn who I am and not expect anything from the way I interact, high expectations can lead to big falls...

  25. #25
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    Quote Originally Posted by weinerslav View Post
    This was a really nice idea, to remember everyone that we are people from everywhere in the world, that have very different (or similar) lives, fears and joys. We all have our reasons, and if we stay it's because we find the support we need here. I haven't met someone I could call a real real friend, it's not a natural talent of mine and, in addition, I don't get the opportunity to stay much time very often, but as I told before, I read this forum for years before deciding to participate, and somehow I see many (all?) of the people here as friends, some of them aren't here no more, but since, I don't know, a long time ago, this is my community, everybody here is my gay friend that doesn't need to be addressed with gay as a constant reminder. For people that don't have a strong community around, and my city is very traditional and posh (and also very gay behind doors), this is really important, to feel home somewhere, even if that place is in the internet. This is the place where people don't wonder if I'm gay or not, that don't stare to try to find if that guy is my boyfriend or not or if I'm going to start spreading pink glitter all around! But it's not easy to be here sometimes, at some point I have the impression that half of the people ignores me and the other half hates me but I imagine that that impression is something that most of people already felt sometime... In the end, I keep coming, sometimes reading, sometimes writing, I go to a happy place where I belong.
    If it's any consolation I've always taken note of your posts, and we both like Archer. So we have that in common. It's true you're a rare sight, and I haven't left you a post comment that I can recall, but it's not because you're invisible or unnoticed. I definitely see you out there.

  26. #26
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    Anders, what I wrote, I wrote as much to me as to others. It's the reason I asked if I had failed anyone.
    I went through a period of real negativity toward internet friendships after being disappointed by someone here.
    I realized I was wrong. But recently, it seems there has been much more of the attitude that anything online is not real and that others
    could not be trusted. Perhaps it was during my down time that you caught my bad advice. I'm glad you ignored me and made some true friends. I am sorry.
    Everyone wants to be heard. No one wants to listen.

  27. #27
    In Loving Memory Lefty's Avatar
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    'D',

    With all you and 'T' have on your plates, occasional negative phases are expected here.
    You are very opinionated but seldom judgmental. Your tons of experience are a valid
    contribution at all times and your friends here will tell you to shut up if/when you go
    off on strange highways.

    Andy doesn't need apologies, nor do any of us. We are what We are and It is what It is.

    The internet is a medium, WE are the message........JMHO again

  28. #28
    Anders123
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    Quote Originally Posted by sixthson View Post
    I went through a period of real negativity toward internet friendships after being disappointed by someone here.
    I remember you telling me about this, and I understand completely.

    Still, your advice wasn't necessarily bad in a general sense, it was just inapplicable to me personally. It can be unhealthy for a person to invest too much of their energy into an online forum, especially if the interaction there begins to replace face-to-face communication. For me, it was a stepping stone. I'm still crazy insecure, but expressing my opinions here has allowed me to gain confidence in them. People generally respond well to the things I say on the forums, and it made me feel that people would do the same elsewhere; I used the confidence I gained here to move forward with my life. Many people don't do that though, and for them, it could be a good thing to take a step back and reevaluate why they spend so much time here.

    You needn't apologise to me. You've always been there with a kind word or a shoulder to lean on. If I were to compile a list of JUBbers I can always trust to have my best interests at heart, your name would be right up there near the top. You've never failed me, not once.


  29. #29

    Re: "It's just the internet"

    I agree with the OP. I have been on one board that has morphed a bit over the years since 1997...and all of the real things in life we shared over the years cannot be dismissed as 'just the internet'.

    The thing about old timers on the board...you can never really know why they left or stopped posting. I was on the last (and only) gay board for quite a long time and I loved the board and I made alot of friends there who I still care about and sometimes read but both times I left it was because of someone who creeped me out so bad I couldnt' stand to go there. The first one was a child molestor who blamed his son for not forgiving him and after I fought with him I needed to leave and take a bath...but I came back because I missed my friends. The last (and final) time...There was a person who creeped me out real bad and I feel sad because I did not say goodbye or give any explanation or cause any drama and I wont' tell any of them why .......

    Thing is...they helped me ALOT when I needed it and I rarely ask for help so it was really nice. I am forever grateful. The help was real and it made a huge difference in my life. As you said...It isn't 'just the internet'

  30. #30
    Count Hedgecula freefall's Avatar
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    Internet is not just Internet, however, it is just Internet at the same time.

    Like what Lefty said; it's a medium - it is not capable of having feelings or anything on its own. We the humans who are using it are the ones controlling its content and the intention of us using it, whether for people's good or harm and for our good or harm. Also, words are more powerful than actions sometimes, so anything posted in the Internet can have great effects for people to whose life Internet plays an important part. But again, it's a medium, it doesn't control what to exhibit and what not to; we the users do. It can be a medium of good or evil.

    I would imagine Internet communication being a thin glass mask. Unless we have known the person face to face or heart to heart, anyone in a forum is (initially) strangers to one another. Since we don't meet during posting, the distance and the virtual anonymity gives protection - a mask. Some people think this mask is permanently protecting they abuse the privilege and do things hurting people, using the excuse: "It's just the Internet" and "So? Nobody there knows me in person anyway." The problem is they don't know it's thin and it's made of glass; even if we don't and will never know who the real person behind the avatar is, we know what sweet/foul of heart the wretched poster is.

    For myself, the Internet (especially JUB) plays quite a huge role for me. I joined when I was desperate and even when I didn't scream out, a nice JUBber approached me and helped me out, sorting out my fear and telling me it would all be okay. He might be posting here rarely and he might never know how much he did for me, even when we were staring at an electronic screen with nothing but words and separated thousands of miles apart. From him too I finally learnt in the end it's a medium and though virtual, we're dealing with real humans here. We cannot blame the Internet for everything.
    come now, my child. if we were planning to harm you, do you think
    we'd be lurking here beside the path in the darkest part of the forest?

  31. #31
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    I agree with your post, OP. The internet is a medium for communication, and who's to say that it's any less or insignificant than say the phone, text, snail mail, etc? Everyone can make it out for whatever way they want it to be. It's a club that's always open for everyone. There are crazies, fakes, trollers...but those exist in "real life" too. For the most part, everyone embraces each other with welcoming arms. Let us all respect each other.

  32. #32
    Come again? dereperez's Avatar
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpectatingLoner View Post
    How often do you text, snail mail, or talk on the phone with people who you've never met and who's names you don't know?
    Exactly the reason why the internet is or can be significant to many. How else are you going to "meet" new people aside from the usual social gatherings at parties/events? For the conventionally shy or disinclined, the internet can be the perfect little outlet where they can make their presence known.

  33. #33
    Burnouts Are For Kids martin6's Avatar
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    Even if this place pisses me off, makes me despair for humanity, turns me off from my fellow gays... I still know that at the drop of a hat I can meet someone amazing on here. And that alone is worth staying. And why it's not just teh internetz.

  34. #34
    Dimples glasvegas's Avatar
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    Quote Originally Posted by Anders123 View Post
    Dan, I'm really glad that you're so vocal about this now.

    When I was a newbie here, being accepted was of high importance to me, because I really didn't have that anywhere else at the time. Occasionally, I would empathise with another member who felt the same way I did (like an outsider), and you were actually one of the people who would put forth that JUB was just a place to have a little fun, and that it wasn't to be taken seriously. I know you meant well, but the truth is, JUB was a haven for me; when my father refused to speak to me after I came out, when my friends turned their backs on me, when my anxiety was at its peak, when I had nobody (and I mean nobody) to talk to. JUB wasn't just a place for me to come and have a bit of fun, it was something to hold onto when I had nothing else.

    I've met some truly incredible people here. Just last night I was IMing with a man whose impact on my life has been absolutely immeasurable; I am so much better for simply knowing him, and I wouldn't have had the opportunity to do that without this website. There are liars, and fakes, and manipulators, but I would say that a majority of the regulars around here are using JUB as a medium to connect with and learn from others.

    I will forever oppose the "it's just the internet" mentality, because despite the fact that I don't need JUB as a safe haven anymore, I don't even want to think about where I'd be, or even if I'd be, without it.
    Well said Andrew. If it wasn't for JUB, I don't think I will still be here. When I went through a period of depression, almost giving up my life, you guys came to rescue. I am oppose the 'it's just internet" as well. The words you guys posted here have somehow impact on someone else life. There are bad people everywhere, just like in real life, you just need to sort it out and meet the right ones.

  35. #35
    Quality posting since 2K7 Nishin's Avatar
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    It's We are just the internet

    All of us, the giving ones, the taking ones, the loving, the angry ones, the entertaining ones, the bored ones, the busy ones, the lonely ones, the social ones...
    The interactions of all of us produce just this: some taking, giving, loving, unnerving, entertaining, frustrating, time wasting, warming...

    It's just the internet really depends on who you are and what you need... attention? connexions? Love? Distraction? That's how value is attributed to things and relationships.
    Last edited by Nishin; January 24th, 2013 at 01:48 AM.

  36. #36
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpectatingLoner View Post
    How often do you text, snail mail, or talk on the phone with people who you've never met and who's names you don't know?
    How often do you talk to a large number of people in your real face-to-face life about your inner problems, your views on every conceivable kind of issue, and sex?

    That's the flipside. People can talk about things on the net without the labyrinth of social etiquette and comfort level boundaries that would shut out many topics entirely in person.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nishin View Post
    It's We are just the internet

    All of us, the giving ones, the taking ones, the loving, the angry ones, the entertaining ones, the bored ones, the busy ones, the lonely ones, the social ones...
    The interactions of all of us produce just this: some taking, giving, loving, unnerving, entertaining, frustrating, time wasting, warming...

    It's just the internet really depends on who you are and what you need, that's how value is attribuated to things and relationships.
    Agreed. The internet, like the government, is something people can build up to be huge, monstrous and bad... but ultimately both is just a large collection of individuals.

  37. #37
    Anders123
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    Quote Originally Posted by M10000 View Post
    But for those with lives, I wonder why they are here inside when they could be spending it with friends and family.
    Is it not possible to do both? The internet doesn't have to be a substitute for face-to-face interaction, it can compliment it. Sometimes a person might be in the mood to enjoy a meal or a movie with friends, or to go out drinking, or go to a club and dance, and sometimes they might be content to sit alone and read a book, or to curl up and watch a television series in bed, or to browse the forums and post on JUB.

    Personally, I find constant social interaction to be exhausting. I can go to dinner and a movie with friends, but if they decide to go out drinking afterwards, it's very rare that I will join them. Partly because I find it difficult to enjoy myself in those situations, but also because I'm usually tired by that point, and would rather come home and browse JUB or read a book.

    Posting on JUB doesn't mean I have no life, it just means that the internet is a part of it.

  38. #38
    Come again? dereperez's Avatar
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    Quote Originally Posted by Anders123 View Post
    Is it not possible to do both? The internet doesn't have to be a substitute for face-to-face interaction, it can compliment it. Sometimes a person might be in the mood to enjoy a meal or a movie with friends, or to go out drinking, or go to a club and dance, and sometimes they might be content to sit alone and read a book, or to curl up and watch a television series in bed, or to browse the forums and post on JUB.

    Personally, I find constant social interaction to be exhausting. I can go to dinner and a movie with friends, but if they decide to go out drinking afterwards, it's very rare that I will join them. Partly because I find it difficult to enjoy myself in those situations, but also because I'm usually tired by that point, and would rather come home and browse JUB or read a book.

    Posting on JUB doesn't mean I have no life, it just means that the internet is a part of it.
    Yup, pretty much that.

  39. #39
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    Quote Originally Posted by M10000 View Post
    But for those with lives, I wonder why they are here inside when they could be spending it with friends and family.
    When I talk to family or friends about many of the things we all discuss here... I'm speaking as "the gay guy" to straight people.

    Here I can talk to all of you guys as fellow gay men and I feel more like I'm just hanging out with peers and less like I'm representing a group that no one else I'm talking to is part of.

    Of course, we talk about a lot of things here-- not just things that require a gay identity or a gay worldview. But I'm talking to my friends and coworkers about all kinds of issues of the day and things I don't come here for, like movies or entertainment or TV. I can't talk to a lot of people in my day-to-day life about many of the issues we do here, at least, not as an insider.

  40. #40
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    JUB is greater than the sum of it's parts, our community has a memory of those are here, have been here, and those who are no longer with us.


  41. #41
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    Jason, congrats on your new role at your job. That is exciting and gives hope to other gay folks in the working world.

    I remember when you joined JUB. You seemed so innocent back then. How times have changed, eh?

    Thanks for contributing everyone!
    Everyone wants to be heard. No one wants to listen.

  42. #42
    The Journey of a Lifetime Adrock-JD's Avatar
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    I came here for the porn but stayed for the witty repartee.

    Porn you can get anywhere but a bunch of bitchy, funny, sarcastic, intelligent, crazy people, well, you can get that anywhere too but I digress.

    I often think of what my life as a youngster would've been like with the Internet. I wouldn't have felt so alone with this gay thing.
    As a young adult, I could have fucked so many more guys. Oh, what a waste of time going to all those bars.
    and we're back to porn...the circle of life.

  43. #43
    JUB Addict Audio Tech's Avatar
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    To me, it's NOT just the internet. I came to JUB, for instance, in a time of great despair. The few regular posters here are singularly responsible for giving me the courage to not kill myself. It gave me the final push to come out of my VERY, VERY hard shell and live as who I am meant to be. I have read the stories, the triumphs, and the despair of others. I have cried for those who despite our best efforts took the easy way out, as I almost did. And many times I see myself in those stories and realize that I'm just the same, but not alone after all.

    I am on many tech forums because of what I do, but regardless I try to keep my true identity hidden because the internet CAN come back to haunt you. Nonetheless, what I post is real. My thoughts and feelings are real. My pain is also real.

    I am one of those "older" posters. My god, I'll be 49 in 2 months. Yes, I openly admit that I feel that I have run out of time just because people only see a number attached to me, not the incredible person that I AM. I am delighted when I log on and see that SOMEONE has noticed a post I made and cared enough to comment. It makes my day, I feel less "invisible". Just for a while.
    People "see" me on the web, because of my words. In real life, the look right through me as if I don't exist.

    I often think about the internet and wish I had it in my teens. Places like JUB would have changed my life on a fundamental level. Knowing that I wasn't alone as a Gay boy, knowing that there ARE others like me and knowing that I am not a freak that needs to hide in a closet my entire life. Oh, how lucky are the young today that find these places on the internet. A place that can only help or judge them through the filter of a computer screen. But a place nonetheless that makes us all feel less alone. A place we laugh and cry and tell stories to one another. Yes, there are those that are hurtful and mean. But these people we meet in life as well. It is up to us to filter out those that would torment us from a world away. It's just another part of living in a technological society.

    No, it's not "just the internet". It's ALL of us, good or bad. A place where we all have a chance to be heard, to make a tiny impact, a miniscule difference in the lives of others. And how amazing some of those people are.... even if I only know them by their words.

  44. #44
    JUB Addict Audio Tech's Avatar
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    I thought I'd add this:

    I did meet someone that used to post here at the time I came out. We spent several wonderful hours together that forever changed my life for the better. He opened up my soul and started me on my way to become who I am, who I should have always been.

    I'll be forever grateful to him for what he did for/with me.

    He no longer posts on JUB, or maybe is still here under a different name. I don't know. But maybe he'll read this and know that he has touched a life in a profound and positive way.

    Sometimes I think he was here on JUB just at the right time, when "I" needed him, and only then.

    Life is strange..... take this as you will. Maybe some food for thought as you compose your next message to someone. The internet DOES touch us all.

  45. #45
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    When I talk to family or friends about many of the things we all discuss here... I'm speaking as "the gay guy" to straight people.

    Here I can talk to all of you guys as fellow gay men and I feel more like I'm just hanging out with peers and less like I'm representing a group that no one else I'm talking to is part of.

    Of course, we talk about a lot of things here-- not just things that require a gay identity or a gay worldview...
    ^ Even though I'm female, this is much of how I feel. I can accept that some of the men here don't consider me a peer. As someone older than Audio Tech, I'm not quite in the peer group of many people here anyway.

    Plus, the friends I've met here and on my writing hangouts are as "real" as the ones I can see without a keyboard. I've been making plans to visit some of them. I have other online acquaintances that aren't really friends, but that's the same as in person. When I can converse freely (like about sex rather than where I work), I'm pretty much the same in person and online.


  46. #46
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpectatingLoner View Post
    Honestly, there's a lack of trust I have for folks on the internet even if they say the right things or seem to care. It is just the internet. My heart naturally reserves a good deal of attachment until I know something is real. And I wish others would have that same approach, negative as that may seem.
    I don't think it's altogether negative, it's a realistic and sensible approach - particularly for anyone who may have been 'burnt' before by a negative interaction online.

    I don't think it's right to deceive. I don't think it doesn't hurt for the deceived. But I still question why folks allow themselves to easily be deceived.
    Despite what opinion people may have of me at present, it isn't right to deceive, and I've always believed that.

    With a site like this, members don't deliberately go out of their way to allow themselves to be deceived. Many of us spend a great deal of time on here. As others have said, it may be our only contact with other gay men - or our only regular contact with people. It may well be that the anonymity of the internet allows us to be more relaxed with someone because we're not party to body language or speech intonation that gives us clues as to the person's truthfulness or intentions. It could even be that we figure that as they're just words on a screen, they can't possibly affect us mentally.

    But the truth is, as in the 'real' world, many of us DO develop emotional ties to our fellow posters, and when we discover that the person is not totally what they seem there is a genuine feeling of betrayal and anger (not just towards that member, but also an embarrassing anger with ourselves for allowing us to be taken in by them). It also sets the board on edge because we start to suspect other members and ultimately shy away from investing time and effort in building friendships.

    "It's just the internet" does devalue the importance of the friendships we make online. Whether some of the characters we become friends with are who they say they are, or look like what we think they might (or have deceived us into believing what they look like); the advice, support and positive effect they have on our lives can be as real and beneficial as our physical friends and family can be in our offline life.

    In the last 7 years, I've learnt more about people, countries and cultures than I ever would have in my offline life - so for something that isn't 'real' it's been pretty awesome and educational.

    Strange thing is that although I have links on here to my galleries and stuff, I wait until I feel I know you before I sign my PMs with my real name instead of Quasar.
    Last edited by quasar; January 24th, 2013 at 03:31 PM.

  47. #47
    Cruise Director
    quasar's Avatar
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    Quote Originally Posted by JohannBessler View Post
    ^I don't think you deserved the tomatoes thrown at you recently....
    Could have been worse - they could have still been in the tin!

  48. #48
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    It would appear that lots of guys have had bad coming out experiences with family and friends. I know I did. Before coming out they were fearful of what others thought of them. After coming out, their fears were realized. This left them feeling lonely and alone. Coming to JUB (the internet), they learned they were not alone and what happened to them has happened to lots of others. There is comfort in that shared misery.
    When you feel like you have no one in your real life who understands or that you can talk to, you become desperate.
    Additionally, young gays feel the pressure (mostly from the gay community) that it is important to come out and be honest about who they are. While this is true, when they come here for advice, they learn that wanting to come out and being prepared for the consequences of it, are not the same thing. I know of more than a few JUBbers who were told to wait until they were independent of family, if they knew the reaction would be negative. I think this has been a relief to them and also helped them to prepare for the possibility of life away from family and old friends. Certainly, they might learn this in some book, but there is nothing like getting the immediate reaction of live people who have been there and done that. In an ideal world, everyone would have face to face relationships that did what JUB does, but that is not always the case.
    While everyone knows there is the potential for evil on the internet, we must not forget the potential for great good.
    I like hearing the stories of the good that has come to Audio Tech and others that kept them from self harming.
    I also love the diversity of people, like EJMichaels, a mature woman and their input.
    Everyone wants to be heard. No one wants to listen.

  49. #49
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    Re: "It's just the internet"

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard-up1 View Post

    Getting back to Seth, I personally haven't been hurt by that particular deception, as I was never close in any emotional way, and we mostly just exchanged quips. I think he is a person worth knowing, underneath that facade he raised, but if he doesn't explain either privately or publicly, I'm not sure I'll be interested in a perpetual unknown. At least with Vannie, I know to watch what I say about banjos.
    The Benderboy drama didn't bother me, either, but then I was not emotionally invested in him. Although, he did call me Mother once. I don't think he liked my advice about treating Refuji better. But I laughed. Wanker didn't bother me, either. I saw him as a harmless soul. I've never been interested in seeing people driven from JUB because I always hoped to see people take responsibility and grow up.
    Everyone wants to be heard. No one wants to listen.

  50. #50

    Re: "It's just the internet"

    Quote Originally Posted by sixthson View Post
    ... I've never been interested in seeing people driven from JUB because I always hoped to see people take responsibility and grow up.
    Yes I agree. We have to try and accept the different people from the different cultures in our world.

    JUB is not our personal playground even though others are determined to treat it as one. ~

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    ....I would actually go out of my way to dig up that cunt's corpse, fuck her skull and then piss on the rest of her remains.

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