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  1. #1
    Enthusiast of Love Ambrocious's Avatar
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    Anti Gun VS. Pro Gun - Lets Compare

    I thought it would be fair to compare the different mindsets of people and thier pro gun beliefs vs. the anti gun beliefs. People who are pro gun understand that it can mean the difference between saving your life or losing it. People who are antigun have just as many reason to be against the right to bear arms for many reasons including personal loss or having to see careless friends and family use guns wrongly.


    If there's one thing we all can learn is that the past is always a great teacher for the present. Being since that is true, I figured I would organize some quotes and mind sets from BOTH pro gun advocates from the past and anti gun advocates from the past as well. Although there is less anti gun quotes, you can get the idea behind the intentions of these individuals who were anti gun. Being non partisan on the issue can help to clarify and so here it is, the great gun debate, pro vs. anti:


    PRO:

    The 2nd Amendment to the Constitution: “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” – The 2nd Amendment to the Constitution

    “If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.” - Anonymous American adage

    “The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms.” 
– Samuel Adams

    “Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man gainst his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American…” – Tench Coxe 1788


    ANTI:

    “One death is a tragedy; one million is a statistic.” - Joseph Stalin

    “Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas.” - Joseph Stalin


    PRO:

    “The Constitution preserves “the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation…(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.” - James Madison, The Federalist, No. 46

    “The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed.” 
– Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers

    “Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property… Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them.
” –Thomas Paine

    “It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government.” - Thomas Paine


    ANTI:

    “In earlier times, it was easier to control one million people than to physically kill one million people; today, it is infinitely easier to kill one million people than to control one million people.” - Zbigniew Brzezinski <====

    “Death solves all problems – no man, no problem.” - Joseph Stalin


    PRO:

    “When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.” - Thomas Jefferson

    “Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who didn’t.
” – Ben Franklin

    “What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms.” – Thomas Jefferson

    “A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” – George Washington


    ANTI:

    “Education is a weapon whose effects depend on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed.” - Joseph Stalin

    “The only real power comes out of a long rifle.” - Joseph Stalin


    PRO:

    “Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined…The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun.” 
– Patrick Henry

    “Are we at last brought to such an humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defense?” – Patrick Henry

    “The right of the people to keep and bear…arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country…” 
–James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434 (June 8, 1789)

    “(The Constitution preserves) the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation…(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.” –James Madison


    ANTI:

    “Those now possessing weapons and ammunition are at once to turn them over to the local police authority. Firearms and ammunition found in a Jew’s possession will be forfeited to the government without compensation. Whoever willfully or negligently violates the provisions will be punished with imprisonment and a fine.” - Nazi Law (Regulations Against Jews’ Possession of Weapons), 1938

    “If the opposition disarms, well and good. If it refuses to disarm, we shall disarm it ourselves.” - Joseph Stalin


    PRO:

    “If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right of self defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government…” – Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist (#28)

    “A free people [claim] their rights as derived from the laws of nature, and not as the gift of their chief magistrate.” –Thomas Jefferson, Rights of British America, 1774

    “The balance of power is the scale of peace. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside. And while a single nation refuses to lay them down, it is proper that all should keep them up. Horrid mischief would ensue were one half the world deprived of the use of them; for while avarice and ambition have a place in the heart of man, the weak will become a prey to the strong.” - Thomas Paine, “Thoughts on Defensive War”, July, 1775

    “To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.” - Richard Henry Lee, 1778

    “To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them.” – George Mason



    ANTI:


    “Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.” - Mao Zedong, “Problems of War and Strategy”, 1938

    “The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing.” - Adolf Hitler, April 1942


    PRO:

    “If gun laws in fact worked, the sponsors of this type of legislation should have no difficulty drawing upon long lists of examples of crime rates reduced by such legislation. That they cannot do so after a century and a half of trying — that they must sweep under the rug the southern attempts at gun control in the 1870-1910 period, the northeastern attempts in the 1920-1939 period, the attempts at both Federal and State levels in 1965-1976 — establishes the repeated, complete and inevitable failure of gun laws to control serious crime.” - Orrin Hatch, “The Right to Keep and Bear Arms”

    “After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn’t do it. I sure as hell wouldn’t want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military.” – William S. Burroughs, 1991

    “The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference – they deserve a place of honor with all that’s good.”
    - George Washington



    Not all anti gun quotes and mindsets were actually anti gun (per se) as you can see, some of them are admitting to the fact that power comes from it. Other examples of anti gun mindsets and the people who quoted them in history express the real threat which was posed to them via guns.

    The moral of this story is that guns can be good...and they can be bad. If your main goal was to disarm a nation and (kill) deal with those who did not want to disarm, gun owners would be threat number 1. Just as the 2009 MIAC said, the new "terrorists" will be home grown or domestic, effectively turning neighbors against each other and making way for division amongst those who understand the need to own a gun and those who only see evil when they even think of guns.

  2. #2
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Anti Gun VS. Pro Gun - Lets Compare

    Wow all your cons come from Joseph Stalin and no sources from the plethora of free, first-world democratic societies that have stricter gun control than we do.

    Fair and Balanced! You sir are ready for Fox.

  3. #3

    Re: Anti Gun VS. Pro Gun - Lets Compare

    in terms of the very commonly raised point of personal protection , really having a police force is an unecessary repetition . Secondarily as reducing one method of violence , it is just one - Timothy McVeigh used a bomb . Thirdly just thought this - in terms of the rights of individuals to have arms to defend themselves against a possibly tyrannical government practically no one individual can have sufficient firepower to really challenge any government . Waco was the ATF .

  4. #4

    Re: Anti Gun VS. Pro Gun - Lets Compare

    Just relative scale . Any real changes now internally are entirely legal , on paper . So defence a tie is a little more effective than a machine gun .

  5. #5
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    Re: Anti Gun VS. Pro Gun - Lets Compare

    And here we go again.................

  6. #6
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    Re: Anti Gun VS. Pro Gun - Lets Compare

    Quote Originally Posted by Ambrocious View Post
    I thought it would be fair to compare the different mindsets of people and thier pro gun beliefs vs. the anti gun beliefs. People who are pro gun understand that it can mean the difference between saving your life or losing it. People who are antigun have just as many reason to be against the right to bear arms for many reasons including personal loss or having to see careless friends and family use guns wrongly.


    If there's one thing we all can learn is that the past is always a great teacher for the present. Being since that is true, I figured I would organize some quotes and mind sets from BOTH pro gun advocates from the past and anti gun advocates from the past as well. Although there is less anti gun quotes, you can get the idea behind the intentions of these individuals who were anti gun. Being non partisan on the issue can help to clarify and so here it is, the great gun debate, pro vs. anti:
    Is this a joke? What an insult to use only Nazis and Communists to portray opinions of those who believe in gun control. If you want to create a relevant debate over the issue, don't be a genuine jag-off.

    Seriously, that was offensive.
    #439th oldest member on JUB.

  7. #7
    JUB Addict chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: Anti Gun VS. Pro Gun - Lets Compare

    Quote Originally Posted by Ambrocious View Post
    PRO:

    “When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.” - Thomas Jefferson
    Actually, Jefferson was referring to the French Revolution when he stated the above. By the way, France is a country in Western Europe that tried to overthrow its monarchy. It would be disingenuous to equate Robspierre with President Obama. Louis XVI was responsible for the deaths of nearly 40,000 Frenchmen. I think too many Americans are losing their heads over the possibility of gun regulation.

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

  8. #8
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    Re: Anti Gun VS. Pro Gun - Lets Compare

    Did Alex Jones write the opening post? It sounds like it.

  9. #9
    Sex God tigerfan482's Avatar
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    Re: Anti Gun VS. Pro Gun - Lets Compare

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    Actually, Jefferson was referring to the French Revolution when he stated the above. By the way, France is a country in Western Europe that tried to overthrow its monarchy. It would be disingenuous to equate Robspierre with President Obama. Louis XVI was responsible for the deaths of nearly 40,000 Frenchmen. I think too many Americans are losing their heads over the possibility of gun regulation.
    I see what you did there.

  10. #10
    Do I dare to eat a peach?
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    Re: Anti Gun VS. Pro Gun - Lets Compare

    A trolling thread. Not going there.

  11. #11
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Anti Gun VS. Pro Gun - Lets Compare

    PRO:
    I want every American to eat Apple Pie and chop down cherry trees and have the Stars and Stripes in the back window of his truck, and a chick with chrome tits on the mudflaps, and to date a mud wrestler named Shirley whose only dream is to be a stay-at-home-mom and raise god-fearing home-schooled, creationist children, and to eat at McDonalds until he dies of a coronary at age 56 instead of being saved by god-damned socialist high tax health care, and then, and only then can the god-damned government pry the gun from his cold dead hands.

    President Limbaugh.

    ANTI:
    The government should take the guns away from the people so I am not afraid of them any more and so I can make everyone into gay atheists with health care.

    Comrade Jean-Pierre Stalin von Kenya



    _____________________

    I see how this thread works! This is fun!

    Probably should be moved to fun and games though.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  12. #12
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: Anti Gun VS. Pro Gun - Lets Compare

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    Did Alex Jones write the opening post? It sounds like it.
    Not an exact match, but close.

    Proof: The Founders Wanted Americans Armed (Infowars.com January 22, 2012)

  13. #13
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Anti Gun VS. Pro Gun - Lets Compare

    Whatever.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  14. #14
    JubberClubber White Eagle's Avatar
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    Re: Anti Gun VS. Pro Gun - Lets Compare

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    PRO:
    I want every American to eat Apple Pie and chop down cherry trees and have the Stars and Stripes in the back window of his truck, and a chick with chrome tits on the mudflaps, and to date a mud wrestler named Shirley whose only dream is to be a stay-at-home-mom and raise god-fearing home-schooled, creationist children, and to eat at McDonalds until he dies of a coronary at age 56 instead of being saved by god-damned socialist high tax health care, and then, and only then can the god-damned government pry the gun from his cold dead hands.

    President Limbaugh.

    ANTI:
    The government should take the guns away from the people so I am not afraid of them any more and so I can make everyone into gay atheists with health care.

    Comrade Jean-Pierre Stalin von Kenya



    _____________________

    I see how this thread works! This is fun!

    Probably should be moved to fun and games though.
    I mud wrestled a woman once, at a gay bar in Houston. I lost!
    She was the wife of one of the band members.
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

  15. #15
    JubberClubber White Eagle's Avatar
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    Re: Anti Gun VS. Pro Gun - Lets Compare

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    Not an exact match, but close.

    Proof: The Founders Wanted Americans Armed (Infowars.com January 22, 2012)
    Good catch. I figured a troll piece somewhere. Thanks.
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

  16. #16
    JubberClubber White Eagle's Avatar
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    Re: Anti Gun VS. Pro Gun - Lets Compare

    Quote Originally Posted by medic1 View Post
    And here we go again.................
    Yep. It might get interesting tho.
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

  17. #17

    Re: Anti Gun VS. Pro Gun - Lets Compare

    The op took an article from an Aaron Dykes article published on infowars.com, changed a few words and posted it here.

    http://www.infowars.com/proof-armed-...=newrightmedia

    Aaron Dykes hosts for Alex Jones when Jones is off the air:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Alex_Jones_Show

    Definitely not fair and balanced.

  18. #18
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyBob View Post
    Definitely not fair and balanced.
    What?! It isn't?! Thank god you unearthed proof of that!
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  19. #19

    Re: Anti Gun VS. Pro Gun - Lets Compare

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    What?! It isn't?! Thank god you unearthed proof of that!
    OOPS... after reading through the thread I see others have commented on the Alex Jones / Aaron Dykes thingy.

    My bad.

  20. #20
    Enthusiast of Love Ambrocious's Avatar
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    Re: Anti Gun VS. Pro Gun - Lets Compare

    Yup, it's from infowars! Here I thought people were unable to search and find stuff...now I realize it's selective ignorance instead.

    Oh yeah...I almost forgot the video! You sheeple are gonna love this!


  21. #21
    Do I dare to eat a peach?
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    Re: Anti Gun VS. Pro Gun - Lets Compare

    A mind is a terrible thing to waste. Good luck.

  22. #22
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    A mind is a terrible thing to waste. Good luck.
    Gotta have it to waste it.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  23. #23
    mitchymo
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    Re: Anti Gun VS. Pro Gun - Lets Compare

    Quote Originally Posted by Ambrocious View Post
    I thought it would be fair to compare the different mindsets of people and thier pro gun beliefs vs. the anti gun beliefs.
    By using the arguments of long-dead men vs infamous dead men? Yea, thats relevent. We should all accept that our ancestors knew best, so lets all stop arguing and start electing a pharoah, we've not built any pyramids in a while. That ought to straighten us all out.

    “If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.” - Anonymous American adage
    Anonymous for a reason, clearly whoever said it realised they were speaking trash.

    “Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man gainst his own bosom.
    Over half of all suicides in the US are just that. And this guy clearly didn't factor in turning guns on each other.

    I've seen you post some ridiculous nonsense on the gun debate before now ambrocious, but this pathetic thread is the crowning glory of it. The anti-gun quotes you list just prove how PARANOID pro-gunners are. Paranoid people are unstable people.

  24. #24

    Re: Anti Gun VS. Pro Gun - Lets Compare

    Quote Originally Posted by Ambrocious View Post
    Yup, it's from infowars! Here I thought people were unable to search and find stuff...now I realize it's selective ignorance instead.

    Oh yeah...I almost forgot the video! You sheeple are gonna love this!
    Let's see... ignorance..... and (my personal favorite) sheeple.

    Oh man, you got us.... you got us good!

    Your post convinced me beyond a shadow of a doubt you're correct. What a shocking video!! Infowars, Alex Jones & Aaron Dykes tell it like it is, they do!

    Please enrich us ignorant sheeple with more of their journalistic genius so we will be indoctrinated educated in the correct manner.

    ADDED:

    The video posted is directly from Alex Jones.

    Last edited by CowboyBob; January 23rd, 2013 at 10:41 AM. Reason: added stuff

  25. #25

    Re: Anti Gun VS. Pro Gun - Lets Compare

    Ambrocious, since you admire Alex Jones so much you've started a thread about him and even posted a video, here's a video revealing what he thinks about you.



    Want me to post another?

    Don't fall for his propaganda.

    You're welcome.

  26. #26
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Anti Gun VS. Pro Gun - Lets Compare

    As a side note, why are people from the far right never attractive? O.o
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  27. #27
    Oranje rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Anti Gun VS. Pro Gun - Lets Compare

    Quote Originally Posted by Ambrocious View Post
    Yup, it's from infowars! Here I thought people were unable to search and find stuff...now I realize it's selective ignorance instead.

    Oh yeah...I almost forgot the video! You sheeple are gonna love this!

    Don't fucking pull that shit.

    What you did was pure plagiarism and in school, would have gotten you expelled or in the real world....fired.

    I have a suspicion that all of us here are far more capable of the lateral thinking and eye-hand co-ordination skills required to research our subjects than even you are based on your obsessive reliance on the madman Jones' site for all the nonsense you bring to this forum.

    When we're talking selective ignorance, I imagine the real problem is that only so much filters in through Alex's and your tin-foil hats.

    I said 'Good Day Sir!'

  28. #28

    Re: Anti Gun VS. Pro Gun - Lets Compare

    What's ironic is he calls us "ignorant sheeple" and then thought were unable to search and find stuff. Not to mention blindly following someone like Alex Jones just like a sheep.

  29. #29
    JUB Addicts Orlandude's Avatar
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    Re: Anti Gun VS. Pro Gun - Lets Compare

    I'm not anti-gun. I'm anti people (like the NRA) who find every little thing about guns being somehow connected to the second amendment. For example, there were no such things as the assault weapons of today or even sawed off shotguns when the second amendment was enacted. Should the NRA get out of the back pocket of the gun manufacturers and stop being their defacto lobbyists in Washington, they might have a little more legitimacy with the gun control advocates. Until they do, just follow the money. What can be said by a lobby that spends millions of dollars to lobby its opinion. It is not about the right to own a gun but a tradition of allowing a morally corrupt organization like the NRA to spread its influence on politics. Thinly disguised as some constitutional right organization, it supports the agenda of greedy weapons manufacturers, while enlisting the support of gullible and reactionary hunters and gun enthusiasts to help lobby their point.

    We live in a democratic republic. If the majority rule decides to install gun restrictions and you resist.....you're a traitor and a criminal. Last time I checked, the government isn't coming to take your liberties, or kick down your door and drag you away. And even if they did, there wouldn’t be a damn thing ANYBODY could do about it. If Congress can get away with violating the Constitution by passing the Patriot Act, more gun laws are a no-brainer.

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