President Obama's "Governing Style" - HOSTILITY

[chance1]

Really good piece by Peggy Noonan on our second term President, Barack Obama - specifically on his "hostility" quotient - and governing by it

It captured pretty well my feelings about the President - she of course says it better than me as she is an accomplished columnist who not only writes but is a somewhat frequent guest on cable news - have seen her on Meet The Press

a couple of moments from the piece about what's up in the days leading to the inauguration - that it should be a moment of unity, not division - instead the President chooses a different path

He bristled with unashamed hostility for Republicans on the Hill. They are holding the economy "ransom," they are using the threat of "crashing the American economy" as "leverage," some are "absolutist" while others are "consumed with partisan brinkmanship." They are holding "a gun at the head of the American people." And what is "motivating and propelling" them is not a desire for debt reduction, as they claim.

a great read - dead on actually - about this divisive President who appears to be approaching his 2nd (and thankfully final) term with the spirit of ......... well no spirit at all

http://online.wsj.com/article/declarations.html

[palbert]

As the Republicans fled town for the Inaugration to show their unity.

She's right about the President's deserved contempt for the House. A majority of Americans feel the same way.

Well, you tried.

[centexfarmer]

First off let me just state that this thread should be fun.

So did Peggy get a sneak peak at Obama's Second Inagural Address Speach?

She clearly has some kvetching to do, it would just be nice to see her going after her own party for a change.

I've seen the same shows that she's been a guest on, and I'd say that should looks like she could use a good laxative.

[chance1]

First off let me just state that this thread should be fun.

So did Peggy get a sneak peak at Obama's Second Inagural Address Speach?

She clearly has some kvetching to do, it would just be nice to see her going after her own party for a change.

I've seen the same shows that she's been a guest on, and I'd say that should looks like she could use a good laxative.

Peggy is reasonable - she said this about Obama/gun control

same article - try reading it - my attachments usually actually support the thread title

and centex - you will grow old one day too - like Peggy - don't channel LostLover now

His gun-control recommendations themselves seemed, on balance, reasonable and moderate. I don't remember that the Second Amendment died when Bill Clinton banned assault rifles; it seemed to thrive, and good, too. That ban shouldn't have been allowed to expire in 2004.

[Rolyo85]

[chance1]

As the Republicans fled town for the Inaugration to show their unity.

She's right about the President's deserved contempt for the House. A majority of Americans feel the same way.

Well, you tried.

sounds like a great topic for another thread Pal - by all means

read the piece - and perhaps comment on what's written there instead of channeling Rachel Maddow ok ?

[chance1]

some folks in CE+P only post about what's on their computer screen at the time - damn the topic

as for the topic - Peggy concluded with this ....... and i agree

Maybe the president doesn't operate with as much good faith as he thinks, and maybe the other side isn't as bad as he pretends. As I watched his news conference and his gun-control remarks, I thought, for the first time in a while, that the Republicans are finally getting a break.

He is overplaying his hand.

He does that. He's doing it again.

[palbert]

My comments were mine and not at all like your doctrinaire musings. My comments directly related to the OP.

[Rolyo85]

Read it. Reads like someone who just literally came in for Obama's speech and hasn't been in the country for the last four years. When someone treats me openly as an enemy, I can only take so much before I respond in kind. When the Congress has been preventing the President from doing his job for so long, he owes them nothing BUT hostility. And there is nothing in the quote you put in the OP that isn't a justified assessment.

So, I am sure she'd be very correct if this was Obama's FIRST inauguration, but it's his second, and actual stuff has happened since 2008. Perhaps you have missed it, I am sure you can google some of it.

[CowboyBob]

*YAWN* Another conservative hack bashes President Obama. Who cares?

Do you think she'll move into Glen Beck's utopian city with the other Obama haters?

[centexfarmer]

She's right about the President's deserved contempt for the House. A majority of Americans feel the same way.

I couldn't agree more!

Republican Speaker of the House Majority Leader Bohner, and Republican Senate Minority Leader McConnell are about as contemptable as they come.

Can anyone name anything that the *cough* Republican Leadership in Washington as done during the first four years of Obama's Presidency other than to say NO?

Regardless of Obama's attempts at compromise?

Then for Peggy Noonan to claim that the President hasn't show any "leadership?"

[centexfarmer]

and centex - you will grow old one day too - like Peggy - don't channel LostLover now

What makes you think that her and I aren't the same age?

Try showing some maturity for a change.

[chance1]

Read it. Reads like someone who just literally came in for Obama's speech and hasn't been in the country for the last four years. When someone treats me openly as an enemy, I can only take so much before I respond in kind. When the Congress has been preventing the President from doing his job for so long, he owes them nothing BUT hostility. And there is nothing in the quote you put in the OP that isn't a justified assessment.

So, I am sure she'd be very correct if this was Obama's FIRST inauguration, but it's his second, and actual stuff has happened since 2008. Perhaps you have missed it, I am sure you can google some of it.

it's as if you're responding to a different thread - different topic - here's some help on understanding who the author is and what's she's done and where she's done it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peggy_Noonan

[Rolyo85]

Thank you, I am judging the article based on what it says. It ignores four years of Republican obstructionism and plays on the sad violin of "the President is not nice!" just the way you do when you got nothing of substance to say. If Obama is hostile, it isn't because he is just a meanie, it's because there is context.

And why don't you take the respected mod's advice? ^_^

[CowboyBob]

and centex - you will grow old one day too - like Peggy - don't channel LostLover now

read the piece - and perhaps comment on what's written there instead of channeling Rachel Maddow ok ?

I see you have two new catch phrases now!

[centexfarmer]

And why don't you take the respected mod's advice? ^_^

HEY! I take umbrage with that statement!

Whoever said that this Mod is "respected?"

[chance1]

Thank you, I am judging the article based on what it says. It ignores four years of Republican obstructionism and plays on the sad violin of "the President is not nice!" just the way you do when you got nothing of substance to say. If Obama is hostile, it isn't because he is just a meanie, it's because there is context.

And why don't you take the respected mod's advice? ^_^

actually she's commenting on the president's lead up to the inauguration - about the LEADER of the country - unlike you she has historical perspective about presidents, leadership, etc.

she's laid out how the president has approached not only the policies but demeanor - and his contempt for the other side

your point appears to be "they deserve it"

that'll work

as for the respected mod - another example of "nuance-miss" for u

the water is really deep rolyo

as for pegs, she can be a wee stiff for sure - but knows her shit and unlike progressive crazies who attack republicans personally, she never crosses the line

sorta like here

[chance1]

I see you have two new catch phrases now!

i think you're over thinking it Bob

but i appreciate the attention to detail

and perhaps there's hope for us

[Rolyo85]

Well, they DO deserve it. If Congress won't act like grown ups, and if they harm the American people, then they deserve nothing but contempt. I don't recall Obama being hostile toward Christie, eh?

[chance1]

Leaders LEAD

[centexfarmer]

it's as if you're responding to a different thread - different topic - here's some help on understanding who the author is and what's she's done and where she's done it

No Sir, I don't think so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peggy_Noonan

Anyone of us who follow the Sunday Morning talk show circuits, shows, blogs, and Editorial Pages know full well who Peggy Noonan is.

To suggest otherwise...well it's little condescending on your part.

She's likeable enough, but she clearly values her own opinion over reality.

And since the article is from the Wall Street Journal, is clearly expressing an opinion aimed at their readership.

[Rolyo85]

Leaders LEAD

Not when one of the three branches of Government has their feet nailed to the floor. The separation of power is for a reason, and when one element is dysfunctional, everyone suffers.

Or are we ignoring Congress entirely, and going with "well, he should be doing it regardless, somehow"?

[mitchymo]

Ms Noonan can nit-pick about whatever she wants about Obama, thats all it is, nit-picking. A president should have the right to speak his mind after being elected, whether its liked or not. Obama is still much respected as presidents of the US goes, he's done just fine so far.
Oh, and another pop about violence in the entertainment industry. Yet another commentator who cannot distinguish the difference between influence and imagination. I have yet to hear of any re-enactment of SAW, but someone shoots a movie theatre up dressed as a batman character and bam, obviously the movies at fault.

[centexfarmer]

actually she's commenting on the president's lead up to the inauguration - about the LEADER of the country - unlike you she has historical perspective about presidents, leadership, etc.

she's laid out how the president has approached not only the policies but demeanor - and his contempt for the other side

your point appears to be "they deserve it"

that'll work

as for the respected mod - another example of "nuance-miss" for u

the water is really deep rolyo

as for pegs, she can be a wee stiff for sure - but knows her shit and unlike progressive crazies who attack republicans personally, she never crosses the line

sorta like her

And all of your observations about Peggy are fair.

I agree.

But in my personal view she's just contributing to a narrative that anyone who doesn't agree with the Obama White House is somehow a VICTIM of some sort.

A narrative that I personally find both contemptable within itself and disgusting.

While refusing to acknowledge their own LEADERSHIP rolls within the National Discussion regarding our "lack" of Leadership.

[chance1]

No Sir, I don't think so.



Anyone of us who follow the Sunday Morning talk show circuits, shows, blogs, and Editorial Pages know full well who Peggy Noonan is.

To suggest otherwise...well it's little condescending on your part.

She's likeable enough, but she clearly values her own opinion over reality.

And since the article is from the Wall Street Journal, is clearly expressing an opinion aimed at their readership.

sorry sweetie - rolyo has NEVER heard seen or read her and his comment about 4 years in the country was ludicrous

but by all means wade in again

and this isn't a debate about her likeability or looks

and your comment about the WSJ is sorta WTF as in EVERY op in targeted to someone

what was your point again ?

[chance1]

Ms Noonan can nit-pick about whatever she wants about Obama, thats all it is, nit-picking. A president should have the right to speak his mind after being elected, whether its liked or not. Obama is still much respected as presidents of the US goes, he's done just fine so far.
Oh, and another pop about violence in the entertainment industry. Yet another commentator who cannot distinguish the difference between influence and imagination. I have yet to hear of any re-enactment of SAW, but someone shoots a movie theatre up dressed as a batman character and bam, obviously the movies at fault.

mitchymo - she's not nitpicking - she's "picking" direct comments that he has made most recently - about the debt ceiling, deficit, guns plus - it's all recent and it's all relevant

his speeches are full bore partisanship - they are divisive - they are not uniting

that is the point

where does that lead ? how does that lead to anything positive ?

her last comment and I agree is ........... he's overplaying it

[Rolyo85]

Sorry to you, "sweetie", but you need to learn how English words connect with each other. What I said was "reads like". I know she hasn't been dropped in the US from Mars last month. Because I'm not a fucking idiot. But of course, you have nothing to say on the issue of the obstructionist Congress, so you have to try and be awkwardly condescending to "the foreigner". You fail, but thanks for trying.

[Rolyo85]

mitchymo - she's not nitpicking - she's "picking" direct comments that he has made most recently - about the debt ceiling, deficit, guns plus - it's all recent and it's all relevant

his speeches are full bore partisanship - they are divisive - they are not uniting

that is the point

where does that lead ? how does that lead to anything positive ?

her last comment and I agree is ........... he's overplaying it

I would welcome a simple yes or no answer:

Do you think if Obama was all inclusive, "unifying" and friendly, Congress would suddenly start working with him? Do you seriously believe that the fault lies squarely at his feet?

Fucking clueless...

[T-Rexx]

Ms. Noonan is correct that president Obama's governing style is ridiculous, ineffective, and insulting to many of us.

But, the problem is that the president is not hostile enough. He tries time and again to accommodate nonsensical Tea Party/Republican demands that are injurious to America. He simply refuses to stand up for what is right, in the name of bipartisanship. He does everything he can to accommodate his opposition, even when his opposition is beyond batsh*t crazy (which is usually the case).

Dear God, if only this president had the courage to lead! He could have been one of the greatest presidents in American history.

[centexfarmer]

sorry sweetie - rolyo has NEVER heard seen or read her and his comment about 4 years in the country was ludicrous

but by all means wade in again

and this isn't a debate about her likeability or looks

and your comment about the WSJ is sorta WTF as in EVERY op in targeted to someone

what was your point again ?

The thing that you seem to lack:

CONTEXT.

You haven't truly seen how much of an "asshole" that I can be.

[mitchymo]

mitchymo - she's not nitpicking - she's "picking" direct comments that he has made most recently - about the debt ceiling, deficit, guns plus - it's all recent and it's all relevant

his speeches are full bore partisanship - they are divisive - they are not uniting

that is the point

where does that lead ? how does that lead to anything positive ?

her last comment and I agree is ........... he's overplaying it

Ok, well lets say that the 'picking' what he has been saying, is being used against him, with the suggestion, nay, dictation that he should be speaking to 'unite' or whatever. Is it traditional that close to, or during an inauguration, a president must say only things that aren't going to ruffle feathers? A good leader will speak out, and the public will decide if they don't like what he has to say.
And, with this being his second term, he can afford to be brutally honest about what he thinks.

[chance1]

Peggy weighed in on videogames - I agree

What was offensive about the president's recommendations is what they excluded. He had nothing to say about America's culture of violence—its movies, TV shows and videogames. Excuse me, there will be a study of videogames; they are going to do "research" on whether seeing 10,000 heads explode on video screens every day might lead unstable young men to think about making heads explode. You'll need a real genius to figure that out.

[chance1]

Ok, well lets say that the 'picking' what he has been saying, is being used against him, with the suggestion, nay, dictation that he should be speaking to 'unite' or whatever. Is it traditional that close to, or during an inauguration, a president must say only things that aren't going to ruffle feathers? A good leader will speak out, and the public will decide if they don't like what he has to say.
And, with this being his second term, he can afford to be brutally honest about what he thinks.

i take NO issue with the President having a POV that is strong - and perhaps diff from my own - that is govt.

it's his style of leadership

I have worked for large and small companies - and leadership is critical - demeaning others in a company or in this case the other party - serves no purpose - suggesting that they're against the elderly - that they're hold the country hostage - that they're not really interested in deficit reduction, etc.

it doesn't lead to a positive results

John Boehner and Mitch McConnell and Eric Cantor etc. DO NOT run the country - no one is going to look back in 20 years and say "do you remember what John Boehner did?"

The President clearly has the upper hand - he should use it smartly and in a united say - my take is he knows how to campaign with a hammer and it worked so he's doing it while governing - for the good of THE COUNTRY

that is what the piece is about

[chance1]

I would welcome a simple yes or no answer:

Do you think if Obama was all inclusive, "unifying" and friendly, Congress would suddenly start working with him? Do you seriously believe that the fault lies squarely at his feet?

Fucking clueless...

Some would - some wouldn't

the ones who wouldn't would be seen as obstructors by some; patriots by others

who knows who would do what

but it would be the right thing - and the american people would see it as the right thing

and my bet is the outcome would be far better than this

as for "fucking clueless" you'd have your finger on the pulse of that for sure - just not sure where to point it

[palbert]

.... no one is going to look back in 20 years and say "do you remember what John Boehner did?" ....

Do not set such an unachievable task for the future. We're struggling even now to remember.

[mitchymo]

- demeaning others in a company or in this case the other party - serves no purpose - suggesting that they're against the elderly - that they're hold the country hostage - that they're not really interested in deficit reduction, etc.

it doesn't lead to a positive results

You don't think that it could lead to change within the republican party?

Its a sad fact that there are plenty of people who fit into the republican party who DON'T care about the things Obama has said. If it wasn't an issue, there would be no point in saying it anyway. The fact that he is being ridiculed with "that isn't helping" rather than "what the hell is he talking about", indicates that he has got a point. He can't do anything about it, its up to the republicans to sort out themselves for the good of the nation. Why should any democrat have to buckle under and try and work with a party full of people who wouldn't know the meaning of the word unity if it was the only word in the dictionary.

[chance1]

The thing that you seem to lack:

CONTEXT.

You haven't truly seen how much of an "asshole" that I can be.

as for context ......

Peggy is a respected conservative columnist and a woman with real accomplishment and respect
she has written a column about Obama's leadership style - and contrasted it with others
unlike many on the left (and their writings about the right), there is no personal animus towards obama
in short, she has cred

which part of what she wrote do you take issue with ?

i think you don't know the meaning of the word context

[CowboyBob]

"Leaders LEAD"...? Then let him lead. It's their job and yours to follow, not whine about it.

[chance1]

You don't think that it could lead to change within the republican party?

Its a sad fact that there are plenty of people who fit into the republican party who DON'T care about the things Obama has said. If it wasn't an issue, there would be no point in saying it anyway. The fact that he is being ridiculed with "that isn't helping" rather than "what the hell is he talking about", indicates that he has got a point. He can't do anything about it, its up to the republicans to sort out themselves for the good of the nation. Why should any democrat have to buckle under and try and work with a party full of people who wouldn't know the meaning of the word unity if it was the only word in the dictionary.

well - if I was a republican on the fence - or a voter on the fence - i would respond much better to a collaborative or reasoned (not the same as weak) outreach - being demonized by my leader would not give me the impetus to move towards him/his policies

on gun control - i agree with him - as does peggy - but pointing to the other side as less reasonable or in fact bad - does not help make the point - i actually thing it emboldens NRA members who probably agree with pres. obama

the President sets the tone - despite his/his supporters desire to blame bad on the other (bush etc.) but take credit for the good - it's his team - his country

if he's the super charged partisan (in addition to his campaign team) we as a country lose

[centexfarmer]

as for context ......

Peggy is a respected conservative columnist and a woman with real accomplishment and respect
she has written a column about Obama's leadership style - and contrasted it with others
unlike many on the left (and their writings about the right), there is no personal animus towards obama
in short, she has cred

which part of what she wrote do you take issue with ?

I get what you're saying. I do.

What I take issue with, is the same thing that I take issue with anyone on the right with any "credibility;" their failure to acknowledge that they're also players and voices within the Public Square, who NEVER call one of their own into question.

Peggy Noonan was writing to her readers; those who follow her column, and be extension agree with her views in the world.

She's often brought onto the Sunday Morning political talk shows, because she's not a "loose cannon," and can obviously come across as more credible.

Yes! I agree with you, that she appears reasoned, and well thought in her perspective.

But this article?

I'm going to let her slide. Give her a free pass, because I'm sure that the WSJ paid her to write something to fill some column space, and we've all got to eat.

i think you don't know the meaning of the word context

When you get around to showing me that you do, I'll take that under advisement.

[tigerfan482]

There are many people in this thread who have already summed up what I believe. The President took office with a Republican caucus whose stated goal it was to make him a one term president from day one. He made numerous overtures in his first two years in office, having a Democratic majority in both houses, to work across the aisle with Republicans to get their ideas integrated into legislation. Half of his healthcare reform push was based on ideas Republicans had pushed previously. But instead of working with the President to try and find compromise on things, the Republicans were determined to see him fail so they sat in the corner and screamed "no" at every turn, fought against anything he pushed for, and filibustered until they were blue in the face. He has made every attempt to work to compromise with Republicans, but all they can do is demand their way or no way. At some point, someone has to lead this country, and if it takes the President having to go on TV and across the country exposing the reality of the Republican behavior, then so be it. I think that makes him a stronger leader and not a weaker one.

Yes, leaders do lead, but they can only lead those who are willing to follow.

[GiancarloC]

is this another thread rambling about the so called failures of Obama when the OP has not named any of these so called failures? It's interesting seeing that Congress is battling Fidel Castro for unpopularity. I wonder who is taking a bet who can be more unpopular. Meanwhile Obama has a 55-60% approval rating, and Congress is around 9%. Yeah, that says it all... the real leader is in the White House and he has the backing of the American people.

The real failures sit in the House of Representatives especially. Obama was constantly undercut by republicans from day one. They didn't want to see him win a second term... and now that he has the sour grapes have started to bloom all over Washington. One just can't handle defeat. Obama has been more than compromising. He has compromised too much actually... he needs to take a more confrontational approach.

[Rolyo85]

as for context ......

Peggy is a respected conservative columnist and a woman with real accomplishment and respect
she has written a column about Obama's leadership style - and contrasted it with others
unlike many on the left (and their writings about the right), there is no personal animus towards obama
in short, she has cred

which part of what she wrote do you take issue with ?

i think you don't know the meaning of the word context

Respected or not, this article ignores the context of four years of Obama administration. It simply ignores it. It's written in a vacuum. You can throw around the word "respect" all you want, doesn't make the article any more legit.

[GiancarloC]

well - if I was a republican on the fence - or a voter on the fence - i would respond much better to a collaborative or reasoned (not the same as weak) outreach - being demonized by my leader would not give me the impetus to move towards him/his policies

Oh malarkey. The republicans have demonstrated serious hostility to Obama since day one. That's something Peggy Noonan simply doesn't grasp. Obama has tried the collaborative approach multiple times and has been met by total brick walls. And the American people gave a resounding NO to the republican party in November... perhaps Peggy was living under a rock during the election.

The President has tried to reach across the aisle, but has been met by nasty faces that made it their objective to make him a one term President. The republicans called him a failure just weeks into his presidency and wanted to make him a one term president. They stopped everything and caused major gridlock in Washington. So perhaps the blame is being directed towards the wrong person. Compromising is only good if the other party wants to listen... but republicans spent the last 4 years as perpetual crybabies and they've continued that similar attitude.

I hope when 2014 comes around we have a House cleaning.

[chrisrobin]

as for context ......

Peggy is a respected conservative columnist and a woman with real accomplishment and respect

Let's see. she writes for the Wall Street Journal which is owned by Rupert Murdoch. Perspective? I don't want to read any snarkiness about MSNBC.

Emperor Hirohito was a respected marine biologist. Except for the one thing, his scientific work might have been highly regarded and worthy of that respect. After all, Nobody's perfect!

[chrisrobin]

some folks in CE+P only post about what's on their computer screen at the time - damn the topic

as for the topic - Peggy concluded with this ....... and i agree

Poor Republicons! If I were the POTUS, if someone wanted me to be one-term president (their primary goal), I'd have more than hostility for those miscreants.

[xbuzzerx]

some folks in CE+P only post about what's on their computer screen at the time - damn the topic

as for the topic - Peggy concluded with this ....... and i agree

Every single post has been on the topic you raised.

Can't say the same about your responses.

[rareboy]

As the Republicans fled town for the Inaugration to show their unity.

She's right about the President's deserved contempt for the House. A majority of Americans feel the same way.

Well, you tried.

Quoted for precision.

[chance1]

Let's see. she writes for the Wall Street Journal which is owned by Rupert Murdoch. Perspective? I don't want to read any snarkiness about MSNBC.

Emperor Hirohito was a respected marine biologist. Except for the one thing, his scientific work might have been highly regarded and worthy of that respect. After all, Nobody's perfect!

Hirohito was too ??? as was George

[chance1]

more pearls from Peggy

What was remarkable about the president's news conference Monday is that he didn't seem to think he had to mask his partisan rancor or be large-spirited. He bristled with unashamed hostility for Republicans on the Hill.