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  1. #1
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    Well as long as you don't pull on "his" junk too hard because isn't it attached with threads and stuff?

  2. #2
    The gay gargoyle G-Lexington's Avatar
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    I never considered it as in "I'd like to date a FtM". But if I met one I clicked with, I'd definitely consider it.

    Lex

  3. #3
    Quality posting since 2K7 Nishin's Avatar
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?


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    Respira MissAnne's Avatar
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    I would consider it.


    " For all there is to feel, let it be felt"
    ― Emeli Sande

  5. #5
    nerd of prey hylas's Avatar
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    never have, would consider it. im actually kinda curious.

  6. #6
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    Without a working penis, what's the point?
    Everyone wants to be heard. No one wants to listen.

  7. #7
    Respira MissAnne's Avatar
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard-up1 View Post
    In any event, he was beautiful before and after reassignment, both inside and out.
    I know, right? Really lovely before and after the transition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard-up1 View Post

    I've seen couple in person who were obvious, but I truly believe not all of those in that link would have been detected from sight alone.
    I agree. Atleast, they all werent obvious for me.
    " For all there is to feel, let it be felt"
    ― Emeli Sande

  8. #8
    JUB Addict jensu846's Avatar
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    Quote Originally Posted by CupidBoy View Post
    Every single one of them look like a woman to me, I can see it in the face.

    Would I date a FTM? No, I'm gay and like gay men with dicks.
    what he said^^. totally agree. just knowing he was a female first ruins it for me.

  9. #9
    Quality posting since 2K7 Nishin's Avatar
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    Quote Originally Posted by CupidBoy View Post
    Every single one of them look like a woman to me, I can see it in the face.

    Would I date a FTM? No, I'm gay and like gay men with dicks.
    Come on, #1 and #3 look nothing like women !

  10. #10

    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    Quote Originally Posted by BENDERBOY View Post
    Probably not, but then who knows what'll happen in the future.
    Yes, we'll ALL be getting face-transplants in the future.

  11. #11
    Quality posting since 2K7 Nishin's Avatar
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    Quote Originally Posted by CupidBoy View Post
    In my honest opinion they do, doesn't mean I hate transgender people or think they are ugly, they look hot, just not my thing. I've spent enough of my life denying what I'm attracted to, I like men with dicks. I'm gay, I like men. Most gay men will agree with that.

    Guess I should have given a PC comment like:

    'I not sure, some are pretty hot, you never know.'

    No big deal fellas.
    I am 100% gay and only sexually attracted to males, jut like you, yet I see and would identify these guys as male if I was to meet them randomly in a bar...

    Well we have different perceptions of what physically make someone loo male or female (not just masculine vs feminine) because I honestly don't see anything female in these two precise ones, while you seem to.

    That also calls the questions as to what ultimately attracts us in men, sexual attraction I mean... is it the concept of manhood, the lack of boobs, the facial hair, penis etc... looking for specific attributes males have that women lack... some of these F2M guys exhibiting most of these attributes... do they have dicks? Is it the idea that these dicks needs to be working the way native males' dicks work, if so are disabled (tetraplegic) guys not males anymore, etc etc

    It would be interesting if someone actually has the experience and would answer the OP's question ...

  12. #12

    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nishin View Post
    ....It would be interesting if someone actually has the experience and would answer the OP's question ...
    I think the "spectating loner" is playing with us again for the sake of playing with us.

    I've met a ftm with lots of charisma a few times. But my mind shrivels to nothing when it considers that maw of nothingness below their stomach.

  13. #13
    The gay gargoyle G-Lexington's Avatar
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    I don't think I'd have any trouble having sex with a FtM. Would I have to "figure things out"? Of course - that's half the fun of being in bed with a guy. Would I miss having a "real" dick to play with? No idea. Maybe I would. But if I liked the guy enough, I think I could make it work.

    Lex

  14. #14
    The gay gargoyle G-Lexington's Avatar
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    I don't consider it PC-run-amok. I just think it's deserving of some empathy. Nothing wrong with not wanting to track down transfolk, or saying you don't think you'd want to date one. But I've befriended a few recently (oddly, all MtF), and I've seen what they go through a bit clearer. The tough (and long) process of change. That seemingly-forever awkward "in between" stage. Friends ditching them because "you're not the person I befriended". Family members who anguish over "losing my son". Strangers asking for hook-ups and intimate photos because "this is my fetish". Fear of using public restrooms and changing rooms. Fear of being in public in general. It sucks rocks. But they go through it anyway because they feel that strongly about it. They dislike their birth gender so much, they're willing to put up with all this crap (and pay a ton of money) to make the outside try to match the inside. To feel "normal" for the first time in recent memory.

    No, I don't think everybody should find that hot or attractive. But it damn well should earn your respect.

    Lex

  15. #15
    Last Chance Jubber justsimon's Avatar
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    Quote Originally Posted by G-Lexington View Post
    I don't consider it PC-run-amok. I just think it's deserving of some empathy. Nothing wrong with not wanting to track down transfolk, or saying you don't think you'd want to date one. But I've befriended a few recently (oddly, all MtF), and I've seen what they go through a bit clearer. The tough (and long) process of change. That seemingly-forever awkward "in between" stage. Friends ditching them because "you're not the person I befriended". Family members who anguish over "losing my son". Strangers asking for hook-ups and intimate photos because "this is my fetish". Fear of using public restrooms and changing rooms. Fear of being in public in general. It sucks rocks. But they go through it anyway because they feel that strongly about it. They dislike their birth gender so much, they're willing to put up with all this crap (and pay a ton of money) to make the outside try to match the inside. To feel "normal" for the first time in recent memory.

    No, I don't think everybody should find that hot or attractive. But it damn well should earn your respect.

    Lex
    Seriously.

    I'm sure my opinion doesn't count as I'm bisexual, but, yes, I would date a transman. Most of you have probably ogled transguys without realizing.

  16. #16
    Young at Heart ravenstar's Avatar
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    I've never even considered this question before. I honestly don't know whether I would or wouldn't.

  17. #17
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    I'm attracted to people, not to genitalia. I would date a trans person assuming we were compatible.
    Recently I heard a 'wise guy' story that I had a party at my home for twenty-five men. It's an interesting story, but I don't know twenty-five men I'd want to invite to a party. ~Joan Crawford

  18. #18
    Respira MissAnne's Avatar
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    Quote Originally Posted by justsimon View Post
    Most of you have probably ogled transguys without realizing.
    Most likely. A lot of them are living in stealth. When I was around a lot of transfolk, I would see a guy and be like "Wow, he's cute" and then realize later that he is in fact FTM. Ive been hit on by a cute transguy before and didn't mind it at all.

    Some transguys choose not to go on "T" because of health reasons, which is so understandable, but its crazy what it does to your body. Some have really good results.

    Last edited by MissAnne; January 19th, 2013 at 05:26 PM.
    " For all there is to feel, let it be felt"
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  19. #19
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    Yeah but he can't take testosterone his whole life. Eventually his body will adapt to it and he will need more and more just to maintain and the risk of older age problems increases a lot. There is a mixed blessing for sure.

  20. #20
    Respira MissAnne's Avatar
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    Quote Originally Posted by cgymike View Post
    Yeah but he can't take testosterone his whole life. Eventually his body will adapt to it and he will need more and more just to maintain and the risk of older age problems increases a lot. There is a mixed blessing for sure.
    Yes, absolutely.
    " For all there is to feel, let it be felt"
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  21. #21
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    I couldn't. I respect the problems of the trans community, but ultimately, I don't even think they should be in the same group as sexual minorities, and I know that I would find it physically off-putting to be physically intimate with an FtM guy.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  22. #22
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    I don't enjoy watching someone born male going to extremes while striving for masculinity. I'm sure if they were born female I wouldn't enjoy them striving for some masculine ideal any better.

    I think I'd have an easier time making a connection with someone who was content in their intersexual authentic self, rather than with someone having surgery to become the "opposite" sex. I can't stand that yes/no, male/female, either/or, polar opposites concept of gender. It just isn't real, and someone so committed that they're having surgery to conform to a role of male or female when I find it hard to take that kind of role seriously in the first place…it tends to rule out a relationship with me.

    If a person born with female anatomy is inherently more like what we call "masculine," great; let's fuck. If a person born with male anatomy is inherently more like what we call "feminine," great; lets…cuddle on the sofa...and go shopping???

    See? Gender roles just fuck up a pleasant evening.

  23. #23
    Respira MissAnne's Avatar
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post

    I think I'd have an easier time making a connection with someone who was content in their intersexual authentic self, rather than with someone having surgery to become the "opposite" sex.
    They arent trying to become the opposite sex. They are the opposite sex born in the wrong body. Its a very real thing.

    When you hear stories about little boys trying to cut their penises off because they cant stand their male bodies, I can't help but to believe in their dysphoria.
    " For all there is to feel, let it be felt"
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  24. #24
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    I don't enjoy watching someone born male going to extremes while striving for masculinity. I'm sure if they were born female I wouldn't enjoy them striving for some masculine ideal any better.

    I think I'd have an easier time making a connection with someone who was content in their intersexual authentic self, rather than with someone having surgery to become the "opposite" sex. I can't stand that yes/no, male/female, either/or, polar opposites concept of gender. It just isn't real, and someone so committed that they're having surgery to conform to a role of male or female when I find it hard to take that kind of role seriously in the first place…it tends to rule out a relationship with me.

    If a person born with female anatomy is inherently more like what we call "masculine," great; let's fuck. If a person born with male anatomy is inherently more like what we call "feminine," great; lets…cuddle on the sofa...and go shopping???

    See? Gender roles just fuck up a pleasant evening.
    Um, yeah, this isn't striving to be something you're not. It's striving to make the outside match what's inside. Gender identity is not a gender role, and it's not an attempt at being more masculine or feminine. It's trying to become a man when you're a woman and vice versa.

    Though, to be fair, there is a lot of fake trans people in undergrad. That's also where all the bogus subterms like "polysexual", "gender ambiguous" etc. (which miraculously disappear around Junior year for some reason) happen. Gender ambiguity is something I have a much easier time identifying as a "phase", but that shouldn't be taken as "it's always a phase". Trans people are real, and they need to be respected same as everybody else.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  25. #25
    Sex God Sparky-Sparky-Boom-Boom's Avatar
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    To be honest no cause i feel like i'm dating a fake.

  26. #26
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    Quote Originally Posted by MissAnne View Post
    They arent trying to become the opposite sex. They are the opposite sex born in the wrong body. Its a very real thing.

    When you hear stories about little boys trying to cut their penises off because they cant stand their male bodies, I can't help but to believe in their dysphoria.
    Except I'm rejecting the paradigm that says there is an "opposite sex" in the first place, as well as the paradigm that a person ought to be assigned to or strongly identify with one of only two genders falsely assumed to be opposite.

    We also hear stories about little girls who starve themselves to avoid a typical body fat composition that would not only be healthy but considered normal and attractive by a large cross-section of society. Sometimes people don't appreciate normal things about themselves, or they decide to change normal things about themselves to comply with a society that has a limited imagination. When women have backroom butchers inject motor oil into their asses do we say "well obviously her dysphoria requires that she have a larger ass" or do we maybe question the images she feels compelled to emulate, the social dynamics that fuel derogatory self-images, even socioeconomic injustices that motivate her to land a spouse in this outlandish way? I take the approach that "you are who you are, as you are" and that anything worth doing as a woman can be done equally well as a woman with the penis you've always had there.

    In fact there is a bit of a double-standard within the transgendered community: FTM surgery suffers from the additional complication of the difficulty of making a "neo-penis." Surgically it is complicated, leaves scars on the rest of the body, and the outcome is risky, hoping to achieve a phallus in a rudimentary way, but so far from guaranteed that many many FTM individuals opt to not proceed with "bottom surgery" after the mastectomy. All of those individuals and advocates agree that having a vagina instead of a penis should not stop someone from being considered a man if that is how he identifies.

    On the other hand, MTF surgery is much more straightforward (relatively speaking) at constructing a vagina out of a penis. Not surprisingly you don't hear a lot of MTF transsexuals saying "Yes I'm a woman, but I left my penis in tact" and when they do still have a penis it is usually "Yes I'm a woman and as soon as I can afford it I'm having vaginoplasty."

    That's the double-standard, and it reveals a lot: people are modifying their bodies as though it is a precondition for being themselves. It's not required, and I think only our social baggage about gender makes people think it is. People are who they are with the genitals that grew there to begin with, and they should never require surgery to be a man, or a woman, or either, or both, or neither.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Um, yeah, this isn't striving to be something you're not. It's striving to make the outside match what's inside. Gender identity is not a gender role, and it's not an attempt at being more masculine or feminine. It's trying to become a man when you're a woman and vice versa.

    Though, to be fair, there is a lot of fake trans people in undergrad. That's also where all the bogus subterms like "polysexual", "gender ambiguous" etc. (which miraculously disappear around Junior year for some reason) happen. Gender ambiguity is something I have a much easier time identifying as a "phase", but that shouldn't be taken as "it's always a phase". Trans people are real, and they need to be respected same as everybody else.
    I don't get the bold bit, and it seems to conflict with what you said just before that. To be logically consistent, shouldn't you have said "It's trying to become a man when you're already a man" instead?

    You can take courses on "passing" as MTF. I don't understand why that should ever be necessary: it shows that a person is adopting a gender, and learning to simulate a gender, rather than just acting as they might innately do. I think it is equally inauthentic whether someone tries passing as a transgendered person, or a non-transgendered person seeking to exaggerate the identity that "matches" their anatomy. It reeks of the same problem as "straight acting" in the gay community, and the remedy is the same: just be yourself.

    When you wake up in the morning, you already are what you are. Striving is not required to be yourself. Striving is only required to be someone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by thatgirl View Post
    Being intersex is not the same thing as being transgender although there are similarities.

    Intersex is a medical condition involving a person's reproductive system which means that anatomically, they don't fit in to the male/female binary although their brain might identify only with one sex. Sometimes, if their genitals are surgically 'corrected' early on, this can lead to issues further down the line. ex They were given female genitals as infants/children but don't identify as women.

    Being transgender is rooted in the person's psychology. Their brain doesn't identify with their physical sexual characteristics which do fall in to the male/female binary. This is something basic which most people in the world take for granted, because they're born that way (cisgender). For trans people, this is not the case. For whatever reason, their is a disconnect.

    We're not talking about performing gender based on social constructs (which are mostly malleable and evolving). It's your brain not identifying with your biological sex and this leading to mental anguish.
    Quite right: intersex has a medical definition and I did not intend to meld the two terms.

    To recast my earlier post: not everyone fits into a gender binary. I consider it child abuse when atypical children are subject to surgery to give them the appearance of fitting into a conventional gender binary. The child's bodily integrity should be respected. But I also don't think anyone really fits into a gender identity binary. We don't allow for that, and we provoke anxiety in people who internalise messages that they ought to subscribe to a binary gender idenity, and that their body ought to match that identity.

    A century ago, we were telling transgender people that they ought to feel like the gender implied by their genitals. Today we are telling transgender people that they ought to operate on their genitals until they match the way they feel about gender.

    In another century I expect today's view will be seen as just as short-sighted and just as limiting for people who, like many millions more than is assumed, fall somewhere in the middle in one aspect or another of their identity or their anatomy.
    Last edited by bankside; January 19th, 2013 at 10:01 PM.

  27. #27
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    I am sorry, I am not sure where you're coming from. You may not believe in, um, subscribing to genders, but trans people do. And I do. And as far as I can tell, everyone else in the topic does. So I'm not sure we have common ground to discuss anything.

    As for the bolded part of my quote, I just meant trying to become a man when you're man in your head, but physically a woman, and vice versa. Hope now it's clear
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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    Respira MissAnne's Avatar
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Sometimes people don't appreciate normal things about themselves, or they decide to change normal things about themselves to comply with a society that has a limited imagination. When women have backroom butchers inject motor oil into their asses do we say "well obviously her dysphoria requires that she have a larger ass" .
    You are comparing people with eating disorders and women that want larger asses to transfolk ?
    " For all there is to feel, let it be felt"
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  29. #29
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    I am sorry, I am not sure where you're coming from. You may not believe in, um, subscribing to genders, but trans people do. And I do. And as far as I can tell, everyone else in the topic does. So I'm not sure we have common ground to discuss anything.

    As for the bolded part of my quote, I just meant trying to become a man when you're man in your head, but physically a woman, and vice versa. Hope now it's clear
    In the history of human struggles for equality, and in the history of people's conceptions of personhood and all that, do you not see a very deep current of thought questioning the validity of gender roles as such? How is is possible for that to escape attention?

  30. #30
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    Quote Originally Posted by MissAnne View Post
    You are comparing people with eating disorders and women that want larger asses to transfolk ?
    I am comparing the double-standard and mixed messages in how we support people whose expectations about their bodies do not match their actual bodies. And I'm drawing on a very useful contribution made by feminist intellectuals who have argued against the body being a standard of identity or a template for identity.

    I also think the "fat acceptance" movement has relevance.

    If you're a woman born with a penis, enjoy your penis, don't feel the need to cut it off just to match other women, or for any other reason. If you're a man born with a vagina, fuck someone with it. Your body doesn't need to define your gender whether it matches the gender you want or not.
    Last edited by bankside; January 19th, 2013 at 10:34 PM.

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    Is the King of JUB Beachguyj's Avatar
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    Quote Originally Posted by cgymike View Post
    Yeah but he can't take testosterone his whole life. Eventually his body will adapt to it and he will need more and more just to maintain and the risk of older age problems increases a lot. There is a mixed blessing for sure.
    I just watched an episode of Catfish tonight and the guy said he just started on T and eventually he will get less and less.

    Plus once any man starts on it he has to stay on it because your body stops producing it. I've heard that a lot of older gay guys and guys with HIV are taking it too.

    I also had a friend who went thru a severe depression before I met him and his body stopped producing T and he has to take injections. One time we got horny and he said he wasn't gonna get hard, but I got him raging hard and we had sex and I didn't know it, but he was due to take his shot (every 10 days or 2 weeks) that day and took it after we had sex.
    In his autumn, before the winter, comes man's last mad surge of youth

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    Is the King of JUB Beachguyj's Avatar
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post

    If you're a woman born with a penis, enjoy your penis, don't feel the need to cut it off just to match other women, or for any other reason. If you're a man born with a vagina, fuck someone with it. Your body doesn't need to define your gender whether it matches the gender you want or not.
    Better yet worry about yourself and not about what other people choose to do with their lives or bodies.
    In his autumn, before the winter, comes man's last mad surge of youth

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    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    Quote Originally Posted by tombastep View Post
    As if it is that easy and that people are that accepting of these individuals.
    No, they aren't.

    But if someone told me I should have major surgery to have a better shot at a date? I'd tell them to go fuck themselves. My hope is that people who identify as transgender will give serious thought to that option.

    Let's put it this way, which i was getting at in my original post: I would not date a guy who thought I expected him to have a mastectomy in order to have a shot with me.
    Last edited by bankside; January 19th, 2013 at 10:47 PM.

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    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beachguyj View Post
    Better yet worry about yourself and not about what other people choose to do with their lives or bodies.
    LOL how is the view from that high horse? You seem pretty confident to share your opinion on this issue, so basically to be told "mind your own business" is a bit much.

    The question is about what would go through my mind to date someone and to be intimate with them mentally and physically. I'm answering it. It raises a whole bunch of questions about identity and it would be important to me to have the discussion in any relationship.

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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    No, they aren't.

    But if someone told me I should have major surgery to have a better shot at a date? I'd tell them to go fuck themselves. My hope is that people who identify as transgender will give serious thought to that option.
    You don't seem to get how those people feel. It's not that somebody tells them something. They wake up feeling wrong. Feeling ugly, aberrant, not how they should be. Nobody is telling them anything, it's how they feel. They need to be the opposite of what they were born physically.

    It is unfathomable to me why you're trying to make this into some weird peer pressure thing.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    In the history of human struggles for equality, and in the history of people's conceptions of personhood and all that, do you not see a very deep current of thought questioning the validity of gender roles as such? How is is possible for that to escape attention?
    Well, because transsexuality has nothing to do with gender ROLES, as I already said in my very first post here. They don't need to "play" the woman/man. They need to physically be one. It is gender awareness that has nothing to do with societal norms.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    You don't seem to get how those people feel. It's not that somebody tells them something. They wake up feeling wrong. Feeling ugly, aberrant, not how they should be. Nobody is telling them anything, it's how they feel. They need to be the opposite of what they were born physically.

    It is unfathomable to me why you're trying to make this into some weird peer pressure thing.

    I don't mean literally an individual saying to me "you know I'd totally go out with you if you had breast implants and lost the penis."

    I mean the cumulative effects of systemic societal messages about gender that convince people they need to make their bodies conform to a certain shape in order to have permission to express themselves emotionally, socially, intellectually, artistically, parentally, romantically, in a way that feels authentic.

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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Well, because transsexuality has nothing to do with gender ROLES, as I already said in my very first post here. They don't need to "play" the woman/man. They need to physically be one. It is gender awareness that has nothing to do with societal norms.
    I think you might be reducing the historical discussion to "occupations" or something. Like "homemaker" vs. "soldier" or "seamstress" vs. "industrialist." Is that what you mean by "ROLES?" Stereotypes of what men and women should do for a living?

    In my reading of social history, the idea was much much broader: to question what it means to be male or female in the first place, and whether the distinction was even relevant if it could even be defined.
    Last edited by bankside; January 19th, 2013 at 11:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post

    I think you might be reducing the historical discussion to "occupations" or something. Like "homemaker" vs. "soldier" or "seamstress" vs. "industrialist." Is that what you mean by "ROLES?" Stereotypes of what men and women should do for a living?

    In my reading of social history, the idea was much much broader: to question what it means to be male or female in the first place, and whether the distinction was even relevant if it could even be defined.
    No, for the tenth time - what I mean is the burning need to have a female body with breasts, vagina and no dick. Or the opposite if you're a girl. You keep trying to make it about perception and societal norms and constructs, when it's a much more primal issue.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    Quote Originally Posted by thatgirl View Post
    At the end of the day, I think if people are given options and they still choose to go ahead with the surgery after therapy and a psychological examination...It's cruel to leave them in their mental anguish by denying them access to treatment if that's the route they choose to go. In the future, when we have a better understanding of trangender issues, maybe they will have different options, maybe transitioning won't be necessary or maybe it will be perfected so that it's less risky and invasive. In the meantime, we can't keep them hanging as we sit around theorizing about their situation and conducting scientific studies.
    Absolutely agree with this; people can make their choices with the knowledge we have today and I can respect those choices in any person since most people in this world are not answerable to me.

    But I'm reacting to what I see from some posts in this thread, which is a false sense of satisfaction that we have this completely figured out and now we're all progressive and empowering and of course people should have surgery to make their bodies match their identities. There are just way too many questions for that to be the case, and when people struggle with gender identity issues, it is another cruelty to suggest we've already worked out all the answers.

    It is very difficult for a person with gender identity questions to have an opportunity to explore options other than "transition to the opposite gender." I can see a whole bunch of things wrong with that sentence, yet it accurately reflects what I have observed in the community of professionals who counsel people about gender identity.

    I am determined that we should create those opportunities. I think counselling for gender dysphoria is too "goal-oriented" (i.e. "How can we get you ready for surgery?") and subject to the same medical foibles that lead to overprescription in the name of expediency.

    So, keep people hanging around or deny them surgery that they have considered and determined to do, no of course not. But ask a few questions from a variety of points of view? Absolutely; it would be disrespectful not to.
    Last edited by bankside; January 20th, 2013 at 12:12 AM.

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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSpectatingLoner View Post
    BTW, it's funny when folks say "I'm gay so....Nooooooo. No vagina anwyhWEEERR!!!!1111!"

    To some, being gay means being male attracted to male genitalia.

    To some, being gay means being a guy attracted to the male gender.

    Huge ((("epic"))) difference.
    Yes. It takes in a question that someone asked on the first page: what would you do if your gay manly male boyfriend lost his penis in an accident? I know I'd be with my guy still. This actually happened to a relative of an earlier generation in my family, and maybe that's where I started to get the idea that people should not define their identity by their anatomy. They should not lament it as a limitation, nor should they see it as an aspiration.

    But then again, it seems that,
    to some, being male means being one who possesses male body characteristics
    To some, being male means a certain state of mind.

    but I keep coming back to the question, does anyone really think there is the male gender?

    I thought by the year 2012 it was kind of obvious that there is no particular standard of behaviour or attitude or disposition or instinct that can lay claim to being the male gender. At best a cluster of male genders. Across a range so broad it overlaps with the rest of humanity.

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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?



    Anyway most identify as straight men and like women.
    In his autumn, before the winter, comes man's last mad surge of youth

  43. #43

    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    I've considered it a few times.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saybrooke View Post
    I was at the gym once, and this woman was on the elliptical next to me, making motorcycle noises.

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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post

    If you're a woman born with a penis, enjoy your penis, don't feel the need to cut it off just to match other women, or for any other reason. If you're a man born with a vagina, fuck someone with it. Your body doesn't need to define your gender whether it matches the gender you want or not.
    Thats easy for you to say. I assume that you were born in the correct body.
    " For all there is to feel, let it be felt"
    ― Emeli Sande

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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    Quote Originally Posted by MissAnne View Post
    Thats easy for you to say. I assume that you were born in the correct body.
    Yes, that is definitely your assumption.

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    Fizzy Grant BFizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    Girl, you betta gawn with that.

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    JUB Addict The Fly's Avatar
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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    No I would not. Not one person in that group could pass for a man. No matter how masculine they look sitting there posing, as soon as they drop trou the physical illusion is gone. I'm not saying they aren't men. I know a M2F and she's a women in every way......except physically.
    When someone claims to be in the wrong gender body, I believe them, who would know better? But no matter what you do medically/surgically you will never have the other genders physical body. A F2M dose not have a penis, they have a vagina. It may be altered or modified but it's not a penis.

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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    No.
    Nothing against them, if they are happy good on them, but to me they are female in a fake man body.
    I don't even think they like men, because if they like men maybe they'd have more chances of romance as a woman..............me guess.
    But that's just a wild guess..........

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    Re: Who Here Has Ever Dated Or Considered Dating An F2M Trans Man? How About Sex?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beachguyj View Post
    [IMG]Anyway most identify as straight men and like women.
    Not true. There are a lot of gay transmen out there.
    Recently I heard a 'wise guy' story that I had a party at my home for twenty-five men. It's an interesting story, but I don't know twenty-five men I'd want to invite to a party. ~Joan Crawford

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