New West Point Study Highlights Threat Posed by Far Right-Wing Groups In U.S.

[White Eagle]

I don't know why they are complaining about not properly defining what constitutes a member of the "far right" the study says it covers "— the Racist/White Supremacy Movement, the Anti-Federalist Movement, and the Christian Fundamentalist Movement —". How much clearer does it need to be.

http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-an...tter779469&t=4

Tea Party and the Right
Think Progress / By Hayes Brown

New West Point Study Highlights Threat Posed by Far Right-Wing Groups In U.S.

The study is already coming under attack by Republicans for not properly defining what constitutes a member of the “far right.”

January 18, 2013 |


A new study from a think tank connected to the West Point Military Academy highlights the threat of violent far-right movements in the United States, leading to the conclusion that, while diverse in in their causes, they are similar in their use of violence to achieve their aims.

[rareboy]

I don't think that many Americans have any idea about the potential threat that exists from the network of these groups.

Many of whom spout off all the time about the ideals of America...but have no issue with the type of leadership structure that Hitler brought to post Weimar Germany.

[GiancarloC]

This is exactly my fear. We may have more Timothy McVeigh's in this country and republicans shroud themselves in ignorance of the reality. These threats are partly because of the rhetoric republicans have been espousing... taken to an even greater extreme.

[xbuzzerx]

I don't think that many Americans have any idea about the potential threat that exists from the network of these groups.

Many of whom spout off all the time about the ideals of America...but have no issue with the type of leadership structure that Hitler brought to post Weimar Germany.

I say it all the time.

I'm much more afraid of these people and their easy access to weapons and their militia groups than I ever was about some supposed phantom aircraft carrier spearheaded invasion of the U.S. we were supposed to believe Iraq was capable of.

If you want to see REAL hate for America and everything it stands for, the same sort of hate that the right always mass-assigns to Muslims or foreigners irrationally, talk to a Stormfront.org member about integration or the Federal government. But don't do it if you don't want your eyebrow hairs to be singed off from what you hear.

[White Eagle]

I don't think that many Americans have any idea about the potential threat that exists from the network of these groups.

Many of whom spout off all the time about the ideals of America...but have no issue with the type of leadership structure that Hitler brought to post Weimar Germany.

I like to watch those that spout off all the time about the ideals of America...but are too chickenshit to start anything.
But I won't hold my breath.

[eastofeden]

I say it all the time.


If you want to see REAL hate for America and everything it stands for, the same sort of hate that the right always mass-assigns to Muslims or foreigners irrationally, talk to a Stormfront.org member about integration or the Federal government. But don't do it if you don't want your eyebrow hairs to be singed off from what you hear.

True dat

These people think they are at war. It doesnt' even matter if a Republican is in control...they have that mindset. They slip up alot in their "jokes" when they talk about killing a bunch of liberals...they are quite serious IMO and anyone who isn't alarmed should be.

[Stardreamer]

I don't know why they are complaining about not properly defining what constitutes a member of the "far right" the study says it covers "— the Racist/White Supremacy Movement, the Anti-Federalist Movement, and the Christian Fundamentalist Movement —". How much clearer does it need to be.

http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-an...tter779469&t=4

The Tea Party does not fit in any of these groups though you have some members of those groups who may show up at a tea party rally or two. It is very disingenuous of the writer to use a title that lumps a mainstream political movement in with way outside the mainstream nut cases and hate groups. And yes someone will haul out pictures of nutters at the rally but a lone nutter showing up at a rally open to the whole public does not necessarily represent the main group.

[xbuzzerx]

The Tea Party does not fit in any of these groups though you have some members of those groups who may show up at a tea party rally or two. It is very disingenuous of the writer to use a title that lumps a mainstream political movement in with way outside the mainstream nut cases and hate groups. And yes someone will haul out pictures of nutters at the rally but a lone nutter showing up at a rally open to the whole public does not necessarily represent the main group.

You're correct that the Tea Party, itself, in its official platform, isn't a hate group.

You're wrong that it hasn't fairly consistently been, wittingly or no, a front for hate groups to collaborate. Their suspected ties with white supremacy groups has been long reported.

[maxpowr9]

The interesting thing is, with The Patriot Act, you would think that these "nut jobs" would be getting round up. Thank that plays more into the "kindhearted liberal" mentality.

[csb999]

potential threat should mean actually physically meeting at least one member of these various groups , and not having done that I would suggest feeling threatened by the mere existence of these groups is probably excessive .

[Benvolio]

Note that the "study" relates only to VIOLENT groups, not to every group with which you disagree.

[GiancarloC]

Note that the "study" relates only to VIOLENT groups, not to every group with which you disagree.

Look at the study again. The violent groups refer to those in the right wing.

Oh and Stardreamer, the Tea Party may not be directly involved with these groups, but they put gasoline on the fire. They are a weak attempt at a political face to hatred. Much of the same way as the British National Party.

[Stardreamer]

Haters are going to hate and will do whatever lumping together and stereotyping of the groups they want to hate to justify it. So I'll leave you'll to it.

[GiancarloC]

Leave me to it? I'm not hating on anyone. The tea party is propagating hatred. This is undeniable.

[Rolyo85]

Wait, is anybody arguing that the Tea Party represents bigots, racists, xenophobes, white/American supremacists?

[kevin23]

"the Racist/White Supremacy Movement, the Anti-Federalist Movement, and the Christian Fundamentalist Movement "

WOW, I live in the South and I do not know of a single White Supremacy Movement nor have I heard rumors of one. The Klan is dead, and never was as big of a threat as they got credit for, certainly not since the 60's. Anti Federalist Movement, haven't heard of that one either other than every one complains about the government. Some justified, like the $220,000 bathroom renavation for the Interior Secretary. Christian fundamentalist, yes we do have some of them but I don't think it is a movement. Just individual Church's and I don't know of any of them forming armed groups or picking targets. Most of them have less than 30 members counting women and kids. The Phelps guy in Texas is a nut case and if the media would stop covering his rantings and funeral protest, he would likely go away. I think all of his supporters are family members.

The study was comissioned by Homeland Security, sounds like the Think Tank gave them what they wanted to hear. I would think that if there was substance to this the air waves would be blaring the fact from investivagitive journalists on every network. I have heard nothing about this from the news or the talking heads.

Either it is exagerated or I've been living under a rock the past few years. I noticed the study did not reference one single event that these groups are supposed to be responsible for. MHO

[xbuzzerx]

"the Racist/White Supremacy Movement, the Anti-Federalist Movement, and the Christian Fundamentalist Movement "

WOW, I live in the South and I do not know of a single White Supremacy Movement nor have I heard rumors of one. The Klan is dead, and never was as big of a threat as they got credit for, certainly not since the 60's. Anti Federalist Movement, haven't heard of that one either other than every one complains about the government. Some justified, like the $220,000 bathroom renavation for the Interior Secretary. Christian fundamentalist, yes we do have some of them but I don't think it is a movement. Just individual Church's and I don't know of any of them forming armed groups or picking targets. Most of them have less than 30 members counting women and kids. The Phelps guy in Texas is a nut case and if the media would stop covering his rantings and funeral protest, he would likely go away. I think all of his supporters are family members.

The study was comissioned by Homeland Security, sounds like the Think Tank gave them what they wanted to hear. I would think that if there was substance to this the air waves would be blaring the fact from investivagitive journalists on every network. I have heard nothing about this from the news or the talking heads.

Either it is exagerated or I've been living under a rock the past few years. I noticed the study did not reference one single event that these groups are supposed to be responsible for. MHO

The Klan is dead?

http://www.kkk.com/

That's news to me.

Also-- Timothy McVeigh bought a white power shirt from them. So there's an incident. Presumably you know who Timothy McVeigh is.

[GiancarloC]

Just because one may not hear about it doesn't mean it isn't a problem. Many people tend to keep their true feelings to themselves. And paramilitary groups are a threat in this country.

[csb999]

Paranoia as a general particularly American cultural trait . Excessive constant sense of danger unsubstantiated by actual events of violence . Irrational overestimation both of the likelihood of dangerous events and the ability and will of individuals to commit acts of crime , leading to oppressive policing/surveillance of individuals ( Hollywood blacklisting ), personal posession of major artillery-heavily armed general population . Instance indicating this national trait might be the fact that the United States has the largest percentage of its population in jail of any country . This means something .

[xbuzzerx]

Paranoia as a general particularly American cultural trait . Excessive constant sense of danger unsubstantiated by actual events of violence . Irrational overestimation both of the likelihood of dangerous events and the ability and will of individuals to commit acts of crime , leading to oppressive policing/surveillance of individuals ( Hollywood blacklisting ), personal posession of major artillery-heavily armed general population . Instance indicating this national trait might be the fact that the United States has the largest percentage of its population in jail of any country . This means something .

What you just said is what the Bush Administration said about the memo about Al Qaida determined to attack within the United States.

[csb999]

Well I think we can say now the witches at Salem were not a threat . Muslims and Far Right Wing Groups now , not very long ago Communist infiltration , before that Jews poisoning wells and before that witches . Watch the borders .

[xbuzzerx]

Well I think we can say now the witches at Salem were not a threat . Muslims and Far Right Wing Groups now , not very long ago Communist infiltration , before that Jews poisoning wells and before that witches . Watch the borders .

That's a ridiculous comparison when there weren't witches in Salem with a website you could go to detailing their manifesto and how much exception they take to Federal power and the unethical, unnatural, immoral mixing of races... and how people should be armed to be prepared for a future struggle.

[csb999]

The people can always be brought to the bidding of their leaders. All you have to do is tell them that they are in danger of being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.
Hermann Goering

[Kulindahr]

I don't think that many Americans have any idea about the potential threat that exists from the network of these groups.

Many of whom spout off all the time about the ideals of America...but have no issue with the type of leadership structure that Hitler brought to post Weimar Germany.

And yet you and others on the left oppose the best remedy against them: arming the people.

[Kulindahr]

potential threat should mean actually physically meeting at least one member of these various groups , and not having done that I would suggest feeling threatened by the mere existence of these groups is probably excessive .

When they openly espouse the violent overthrow of the government and its replacement with tyranny?

[Kulindahr]

"the Racist/White Supremacy Movement, the Anti-Federalist Movement, and the Christian Fundamentalist Movement "

WOW, I live in the South and I do not know of a single White Supremacy Movement nor have I heard rumors of one. The Klan is dead, and never was as big of a threat as they got credit for, certainly not since the 60's. Anti Federalist Movement, haven't heard of that one either other than every one complains about the government. Some justified, like the $220,000 bathroom renavation for the Interior Secretary. Christian fundamentalist, yes we do have some of them but I don't think it is a movement. Just individual Church's and I don't know of any of them forming armed groups or picking targets. Most of them have less than 30 members counting women and kids. The Phelps guy in Texas is a nut case and if the media would stop covering his rantings and funeral protest, he would likely go away. I think all of his supporters are family members.

The study was comissioned by Homeland Security, sounds like the Think Tank gave them what they wanted to hear. I would think that if there was substance to this the air waves would be blaring the fact from investivagitive journalists on every network. I have heard nothing about this from the news or the talking heads.

Either it is exagerated or I've been living under a rock the past few years. I noticed the study did not reference one single event that these groups are supposed to be responsible for. MHO

The Klan is not dead. If nowhere else, it's alive in the south end of my county, where there haven't been any non-white residents ever for more than a few months -- they are "discouraged" from living there, and quite effectively so.

Many fundamentalist churches have hundreds and even thousands of members -- per church, not across the nation. And with the militaristic rhetoric of the leaders, it wouldn't be hard to turn hundreds of thousands of those members into armed bands -- since most are armed anyway.

[csb999]

Prevention vs. Innocent until proven guilty . You are not a criminal until you've committed a crime . And a malicious lunatic with a web-page is just a malicious lunatic with a web-page . Intentions are nothing , and you should not defend yourself against the malicious and perfectly innocent .

[Just_Believe18]

"the Racist/White Supremacy Movement, the Anti-Federalist Movement, and the Christian Fundamentalist Movement "

WOW, I live in the South and I do not know of a single White Supremacy Movement nor have I heard rumors of one. The Klan is dead, and never was as big of a threat as they got credit for, certainly not since the 60's. Anti Federalist Movement, haven't heard of that one either other than every one complains about the government. Some justified, like the $220,000 bathroom renavation for the Interior Secretary. Christian fundamentalist, yes we do have some of them but I don't think it is a movement. Just individual Church's and I don't know of any of them forming armed groups or picking targets. Most of them have less than 30 members counting women and kids. The Phelps guy in Texas is a nut case and if the media would stop covering his rantings and funeral protest, he would likely go away. I think all of his supporters are family members.

The study was comissioned by Homeland Security, sounds like the Think Tank gave them what they wanted to hear. I would think that if there was substance to this the air waves would be blaring the fact from investivagitive journalists on every network. I have heard nothing about this from the news or the talking heads.

Either it is exagerated or I've been living under a rock the past few years. I noticed the study did not reference one single event that these groups are supposed to be responsible for. MHO

Well, clearly you've never been to Jefferson Davis' retirement home in Mississippi where, after the museum tour, I can visit the gift shop and buy a Confederate beach towel for 14.99, or a special print edition of Little Black Sambo.

[Rolyo85]

And yet you and others on the left oppose the best remedy against them: arming the people.

Maybe because we don't believe that is the best remedy, but actually the worst? Those aren't a differently colored folks, or wearing some sort of uniform, or self-identifying in other obvious ways.

They ARE the people.

So no, the best remedy is not to arm them, thank you very much.

- - - Updated - - -

Prevention vs. Innocent until proven guilty . You are not a criminal until you've committed a crime . And a malicious lunatic with a web-page is just a malicious lunatic with a web-page . Intentions are nothing , and you should not defend yourself against the malicious and perfectly innocent .

Um, that is incorrect actually. Intentions count for a lot, and crime prevention does exist for a reason.

[xbuzzerx]

Prevention vs. Innocent until proven guilty . You are not a criminal until you've committed a crime . And a malicious lunatic with a web-page is just a malicious lunatic with a web-page . Intentions are nothing , and you should not defend yourself against the malicious and perfectly innocent .

So it's okay to plan a terrorist attack, until the day you carry it out?

[csb999]

Paranoia , oppressing and sometimes killing the irrelevant and the innocent in the search for a threat is a very common event in American history . Communist infiltration , more than a few people could not cross the border because they advocated " the violent overthrow of the government" .

[csb999]

So it's okay to plan a terrorist attack, until the day you carry it out? YES isn't it ?

[GiancarloC]

There is no paranoia here. This is about recognizing the reality in this country. There was a very real terrorist bombing in the 1990s in Oklahoma City. This is not fantasy. Nobody is talking about curbing rights, but these criminal gangs need to be more closely monitored.

[Rolyo85]

Not according to the law. If proof exists of malicious intent, then the law can step in. Sorry if it's different on your planet.

[csb999]

Prevention of crime is irrational and absurd . Intending to commit a crime is not a crime . Innocent until proven guilty might still mean something

[xbuzzerx]

Prevention of crime is irrational and absurd . Intending to commit a crime is not a crime . Innocent until proven guilty might still mean something

I'm sorry-- you're wrong.

Watch "to catch a predator" if you think intending to commit a crime is not a crime.

[csb999]

"malicious intent" since when has that been a punishable convictable crime ? habeus corpus ?

[GiancarloC]

Prevention of crime is irrational and absurd . Intending to commit a crime is not a crime . Innocent until proven guilty might still mean something

Nope. That's absolutely false. Prevention of crime happens everyday in city streets. People get prosecuted for attempting to hire hitmen too...

Oh and what about stings? One was recently done where pedophiles were enticed to meet underage people online... only to land in police custody.

[csb999]

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/catch-predator/
forum here states that you must have at least begun a criminal act .

[Stardreamer]

There is nothing really new or original about this report, I was Anti-Terrorism Training officer for my last command before I retired and still have to take the training in my current job. Both the ATO and Equal Opportunity office training have been highlighting these groups for over a decade at least.

[xbuzzerx]

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/catch-predator/
forum here states that you must have at least begun a criminal act .

The only person who has even brought up criminal convictions is you.

Keeping track of potentially dangerous homegrown terrorism influences is not the same thing as locking up every single person involved with these groups on no charge.

[csb999]

forum quote " What you need for a crime is just two things, called mens rea (Latin for "guilty mind", means the intent to do the crime) and actus reus (Latin for "guilty act", meaning they have undertaken action to set the crime in motion). " Intention alone is not enough . NOT completion of the crime .

[GiancarloC]

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/catch-predator/
forum here states that you must have at least begun a criminal act .

Many of the groups are engaging in or starting criminal acts. This is no joke.

[xbuzzerx]

forum quote " What you need for a crime is just two things, called mens rea (Latin for "guilty mind", means the intent to do the crime) and actus reus (Latin for "guilty act", meaning they have undertaken action to set the crime in motion). " Intention alone is not enough . NOT completion of the crime .

You are the only person talking about crime or filing a criminal charge in a courtroom. I'm waiting for you to absorb that.

[csb999]

what I am saying is that this is one current example of a very very long well-documented history of American paranoia .

[GiancarloC]

what I am saying is that this is one current example of a very very long well-documented history of American paranoia .

Um, this isn't American paranoia. Many other countries have done similar studies/investigations of fringe groups. Germany in particular suffers from serious problems with some far right wing groups committing acts of violence, Britain has issues with extremists like the BNP...

[csb999]

I give you , I have not read the report . BUT the US does have the largest prison system in the world with 10% of your population incarcerated at any one point . Either the US is a lot more essentially criminal than the rest of the world or this is indicative of some attitude . To be kind I will attribute it to attitude .

[xbuzzerx]

what I am saying is that this is one current example of a very very long well-documented history of American paranoia .

American paranoia is thinking that anyone with tan skin is a threat to you even if they're a disarmed third world country with no substantial link to terrorism.

Not thinking that the sort of fringe extremist groups that prompted things like Timothy McVeigh to blow up a federal building or a guy to shoot Congresswoman Gifford in the head in front of a supermarket are dangerous.

[maxpowr9]

I give you , I have not read the report . BUT the US does have the largest prison system in the world with 10% of your population incarcerated at any one point . Either the US is a lot more essentially criminal than the rest of the world or this is indicative of some attitude . To be kind I will attribute it to attitude .

I good chunk of that is the non-violent drug charges and sex/prostitution stings. There is a huge revolving door in prison where many inmates spend less than a year there due the previously related charges.

[csb999]

Likewise it can be illogical to state that one major action by an individual is representative of the attitude of one group towards another group . ( I would suggest the shooting in Denmark was once instance - the media deperately attempting without success to explain or classify this event , not just a dangerous loonie with a gun ) . To verbally promote or support an action or attitude by another is not to do it. Marius van der Lubbe .