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  1. #51
    GiancarloC
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    Re: New West Point Study Highlights Threat Posed by Far Right-Wing Groups In U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by csb999 View Post
    I give you , I have not read the report . BUT the US does have the largest prison system in the world with 10% of your population incarcerated at any one point . Either the US is a lot more essentially criminal than the rest of the world or this is indicative of some attitude . To be kind I will attribute it to attitude .
    And this address what I said how? This report isn't about incarceration. If we ended the drug war, the prison population would be lower. But that's a different topic. This thread is about right wing paramilitary groups posing a threat to this country. This is undeniable, and many of these groups engage in criminal activity.

  2. #52

    Re: New West Point Study Highlights Threat Posed by Far Right-Wing Groups In U.S.

    most amusing or interesting train of thought . I have noted pointed out before that the United States has a huge prison system , that at any given point something like 10% of the population is in jail , and the number of black men who have done any time in jail is something like 40% , a huge number . It just occurred to me that each prisoner would leave with good or perfect teeth , really the only point for a lot of poor people where they would have any medical or dental care , glasses , and prison it would be practically endless . Given that they would be mostly young and healthy still the prison system must be the one major social effect statistically , and prisoners would almost by definition be the poorest of the poor subgroup . ( Fed govt here estimated cost / amount spent here on prisoners as 75 thousand per year which we both know well enough is 5 or 6 times welfare or disability pension ) . Just thought the federal prison system there probably did more measureably for the poorest there than socialized medicine ever did here .

  3. #53
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    Re: New West Point Study Highlights Threat Posed by Far Right-Wing Groups In U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by csb999 View Post
    most amusing or interesting train of thought . I have noted pointed out before that the United States has a huge prison system , that at any given point something like 10% of the population is in jail , and the number of black men who have done any time in jail is something like 40% , a huge number . It just occurred to me that each prisoner would leave with good or perfect teeth , really the only point for a lot of poor people where they would have any medical or dental care , glasses , and prison it would be practically endless . Given that they would be mostly young and healthy still the prison system must be the one major social effect statistically , and prisoners would almost by definition be the poorest of the poor subgroup . ( Fed govt here estimated cost / amount spent here on prisoners as 75 thousand per year which we both know well enough is 5 or 6 times welfare or disability pension ) . Just thought the federal prison system there probably did more measureably for the poorest there than socialized medicine ever did here .
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Seriously, words kind of escape me. What is your point here?

  4. #54
    GiancarloC
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    Re: New West Point Study Highlights Threat Posed by Far Right-Wing Groups In U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by csb999 View Post
    most amusing or interesting train of thought . I have noted pointed out before that the United States has a huge prison system , that at any given point something like 10% of the population is in jail , and the number of black men who have done any time in jail is something like 40% , a huge number . It just occurred to me that each prisoner would leave with good or perfect teeth , really the only point for a lot of poor people where they would have any medical or dental care , glasses , and prison it would be practically endless . Given that they would be mostly young and healthy still the prison system must be the one major social effect statistically , and prisoners would almost by definition be the poorest of the poor subgroup . ( Fed govt here estimated cost / amount spent here on prisoners as 75 thousand per year which we both know well enough is 5 or 6 times welfare or disability pension ) . Just thought the federal prison system there probably did more measureably for the poorest there than socialized medicine ever did here .
    And this is addressing the OP how? I realize this thread isn't marked as "on topic", but what is this in reply towards?

  5. #55

    Re: New West Point Study Highlights Threat Posed by Far Right-Wing Groups In U.S.

    totally an aside , I was talking about prisons .

  6. #56

    Re: New West Point Study Highlights Threat Posed by Far Right-Wing Groups In U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    And yet you and others on the left oppose the best remedy against them: arming the people.

    As far as I'm aware, this is EXACTLY what the far right wants.

    An armed society is no longer recognizable as a civil society.

    The SPLC has a long record in tracking hate groups and the cross fertilization with right wing politics:

    Since 2000, the number of hate groups has increased by 69 percent. This surge has been fueled by anger and fear over the nation’s ailing economy, an influx of non-white immigrants, and the diminishing white majority, as symbolized by the election of the nation’s first African-American president.

    These factors also are feeding a powerful resurgence of the antigovernment “Patriot” movement, which in the 1990s led to a string of domestic terrorist plots, including the Oklahoma City bombing. The number of Patriot groups, including armed militias, grew by 755 percent in the first three years of the Obama administration – from 149 at the end of 2008 to 1,274 in 2011.

    This growth in extremism has been aided by mainstream media figures and politicians who have used their platforms to legitimize false propaganda about immigrants and other minorities and spread the kind of paranoid conspiracy theories on which militia groups thrive.

    http://www.splcenter.org/what-we-do/hate-and-extremism

  7. #57
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    Re: New West Point Study Highlights Threat Posed by Far Right-Wing Groups In U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by kevin23 View Post
    "the Racist/White Supremacy Movement, the Anti-Federalist Movement, and the Christian Fundamentalist Movement "

    WOW, I live in the South and I do not know of a single White Supremacy Movement nor have I heard rumors of one. The Klan is dead, and never was as big of a threat as they got credit for, certainly not since the 60's. Anti Federalist Movement, haven't heard of that one either other than every one complains about the government. Some justified, like the $220,000 bathroom renavation for the Interior Secretary. Christian fundamentalist, yes we do have some of them but I don't think it is a movement. Just individual Church's and I don't know of any of them forming armed groups or picking targets. Most of them have less than 30 members counting women and kids. The Phelps guy in Texas is a nut case and if the media would stop covering his rantings and funeral protest, he would likely go away. I think all of his supporters are family members.

    The study was comissioned by Homeland Security, sounds like the Think Tank gave them what they wanted to hear. I would think that if there was substance to this the air waves would be blaring the fact from investivagitive journalists on every network. I have heard nothing about this from the news or the talking heads.

    Either it is exagerated or I've been living under a rock the past few years. I noticed the study did not reference one single event that these groups are supposed to be responsible for. MHO
    No, I'm not gonna say you live under a rock, but I think you need to get out more. Do you know how to google? I googled these three groups for you and here is what I have found:


    http://projects.jou.ufl.edu/ktrammel.../supremacy.htm
    White supremacy: A legacy of hate
    by Ryan Wilder

    The white supremacy movement operates on the basic premise that all non-white races should be exterminated or forced to live separately from whites. White Supremacist groups may have religiously based beliefs or simply believe that races should not mix.
    The only things I found about the Anti-Federalist Movement were stories back when they wrote the Constitution. I'll let you look through the link.
    the Anti-Federalist Movement,
    https://www.google.com/search?q=Anti...ient=firefox-a

    I want to thank you for getting me to look up these stories. I found the Tea Party is involved with the Christian fundamentalists.
    So here is their story.
    http://irregulartimes.com/teapartyfundamentalism.html

    Christian Fundamentalists
    Steeped In Tea Party Movement

    Bitter Religious Intolerance
    At The Heart Of The Tea Party Protests

    A great deal of attention has been given to the racism and homophobia that pervades the Tea Party movement, and rightly so. There is another ugly side to the Tea Party movement that has received less attention, however: Its alignment with Christian fundamentalism.
    It is quite right for this group to watch what the Tea Party does.

    http://www.squidoo.com/tea-party-watch

    Tea Party Watch
    The Tea Party is the strongest insurgent political force in American politics today. That's why it's important that we establish a Tea Party Watch - a source that's keeping a critical eye on the Tea Party movement, watching for signs of corrupt manipulation, fearmongering and violent radicalization.
    The Phelps guy in Texas is a nut case and if the media would stop covering his rantings and funeral protest, he would likely go away. I think all of his supporters are family members.
    This alone shows where you don't get out much. You have over 1300 posts so, surely, you have seen the stories about Phelps protests.
    Please! do not put the blame on Phelps on Texas. He is in reality Head of Westboro Baptist Church (WBC), an independent Baptist church based in Topeka, Kansas.
    So, please, Google is your friend.
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

  8. #58
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    Re: New West Point Study Highlights Threat Posed by Far Right-Wing Groups In U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by White Eagle View Post
    Please! do not put the blame on Phelps on Texas. He is in reality Head of Westboro Baptist Church (WBC), an independent Baptist church based in Topeka, Kansas.
    So, please, Google is your friend.
    But he is quite correct, the Westboro Baptist Church has a membership of around 40 people most of them Phelps own family and relatives. They have no ties to any other Baptist organization and no support from the religious community. They spend over $250,000 a year on funding their little hate parades and that is funded largely by the group itself and the money they make out of lawsuits, (it seems Phelps was smart of enough to have a couple of his kids to get good law degrees) for damages done to them. The rest is likely made up from random donations from haters who see them on the news and send in a few bucks. If the news stopped covering them and they were left alone so they stop getting reasons to file large lawsuits they would literally dry up on the vine financially.

    Actually I find the reported fact that the congregation is almost all his family scarier than if it was just a collection of random nutters. In a country this size you could find 40 nutters easy but to have them all in one family means this is serious generational hate mongering.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  9. #59
    JubberClubber White Eagle's Avatar
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    Re: New West Point Study Highlights Threat Posed by Far Right-Wing Groups In U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    But he is quite correct, the Westboro Baptist Church has a membership of around 40 people most of them Phelps own family and relatives. They have no ties to any other Baptist organization and no support from the religious community. They spend over $250,000 a year on funding their little hate parades and that is funded largely by the group itself and the money they make out of lawsuits, (it seems Phelps was smart of enough to have a couple of his kids to get good law degrees) for damages done to them. The rest is likely made up from random donations from haters who see them on the news and send in a few bucks. If the news stopped covering them and they were left alone so they stop getting reasons to file large lawsuits they would literally dry up on the vine financially.

    Actually I find the reported fact that the congregation is almost all his family scarier than if it was just a collection of random nutters. In a country this size you could find 40 nutters easy but to have them all in one family means this is serious generational hate mongering.
    What you say is quite true, but I made no reference other than they were not in Texas.
    Thanks for adding to the forum.
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

  10. #60
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: New West Point Study Highlights Threat Posed by Far Right-Wing Groups In U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by csb999 View Post
    … the US does have the largest prison system in the world with 10% of your population incarcerated at any one point.
    Your percentage seems high, even if you are counting persons on parole and adult ex-prisoners.

    The US population currently includes about 312 million people. The number of prisoners under the jurisdiction of state or federal correctional authorities numbered about 1.6 million at the end of 2011.


  11. #61
    GiancarloC
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    Re: New West Point Study Highlights Threat Posed by Far Right-Wing Groups In U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    Your percentage seems high, even if you are counting persons on parole and adult ex-prisoners.

    The US population currently includes about 312 million people. The number of prisoners under the jurisdiction of state or federal correctional authorities numbered about 1.6 million at the end of 2011.

    So taking 1.6 million divided by 312 million that is approximately 0.005... or less than half of one percent. If I am doing my math right lol.

    Not even close to 10%.

  12. #62
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    Re: New West Point Study Highlights Threat Posed by Far Right-Wing Groups In U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Maybe because we don't believe that is the best remedy, but actually the worst? Those aren't a differently colored folks, or wearing some sort of uniform, or self-identifying in other obvious ways.

    They ARE the people.

    So no, the best remedy is not to arm them, thank you very much.
    This is run-around.

    The German people were accustomed to an authoritarian government; they hadn't had democracy long enough to value it. Hitler was just another version of a Kaiser. The American people, OTOH, do value democracy and rights, and if armed could be expected to prevent the rise of fascism, or at least kill it a-borning.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  13. #63
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    Re: New West Point Study Highlights Threat Posed by Far Right-Wing Groups In U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by csb999 View Post
    So it's okay to plan a terrorist attack, until the day you carry it out? YES isn't it ?
    No. Terrorist attacks almost without exception involve death; without exception they involve the destruction of property. Conspiracy to do either of these is itself a crime, so the moment it goes past mere talk and any means for achieving the violence is acquired, the participants are guilty.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  14. #64
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    Re: New West Point Study Highlights Threat Posed by Far Right-Wing Groups In U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    Nope. That's absolutely false. Prevention of crime happens everyday in city streets. People get prosecuted for attempting to hire hitmen too...

    Oh and what about stings? One was recently done where pedophiles were enticed to meet underage people online... only to land in police custody.
    The interesting thing is that if a citizen tries to prevent a crime, he/she can be arrested for harassment in many jurisdictions -- idiotic, but true.


    BTW, I got hit on by a thirteen-y.o. on line once, trying to get me to meet him in a motel room. I told him "Sure -- e-mail me on your eighteenth birthday".

    He was PISSED!

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  15. #65
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: New West Point Study Highlights Threat Posed by Far Right-Wing Groups In U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    This is run-around.

    The German people were accustomed to an authoritarian government; they hadn't had democracy long enough to value it. Hitler was just another version of a Kaiser. The American people, OTOH, do value democracy and rights, and if armed could be expected to prevent the rise of fascism, or at least kill it a-borning.
    Yeah, the right wing makes your argument invalid.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  16. #66
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: New West Point Study Highlights Threat Posed by Far Right-Wing Groups In U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    The interesting thing is that if a citizen tries to prevent a crime, he/she can be arrested for harassment in many jurisdictions -- idiotic, but true.
    Not idiotic at all. In most cases, prevention is a legal gray area, and as such should be done by professionals who have their shit covered. Not by vigilantes. Of course, if you see an immediate crime about to happen, you can try to stop it, but I doubt those are really cases where it won't be clear what happened afterwards.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  17. #67
    GiancarloC
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    Re: New West Point Study Highlights Threat Posed by Far Right-Wing Groups In U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    BTW, I got hit on by a thirteen-y.o. on line once, trying to get me to meet him in a motel room. I told him "Sure -- e-mail me on your eighteenth birthday".

    He was PISSED!
    Yea well better him being pissed off then getting busted in a sting a operation lol. Who knows if he wasn't a 30 or 40 year old undercover police officer.

  18. #68
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    Re: New West Point Study Highlights Threat Posed by Far Right-Wing Groups In U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    Yea well better him being pissed off then getting busted in a sting a operation lol. Who knows if he wasn't a 30 or 40 year old undercover police officer.
    I met him after he turned eighteen. When he figured out I was the guy who'd said that to him, I learned he was a total drama queen -- and very proud of all the older men he'd sucked in.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  19. #69
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post

    I met him after he turned eighteen. When he figured out I was the guy who'd said that to him, I learned he was a total drama queen -- and very proud of all the older men he'd sucked in.
    You lead an interesting life
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  20. #70
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    Re: New West Point Study Highlights Threat Posed by Far Right-Wing Groups In U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    Your percentage seems high, even if you are counting persons on parole and adult ex-prisoners.

    The US population currently includes about 312 million people. The number of prisoners under the jurisdiction of state or federal correctional authorities numbered about 1.6 million at the end of 2011.

    Could he have been trying to say something like "10% of the U. S. population is imprisoned at some point during their lifetimes"?

    Still seems a little high, but certainly not as out-of-whack.
    "All legal U. S. residents who are 18 years or older, shall have an unconditional right to vote." - We need a 28th Amendment to the U. S. Constitution which resembles this...NOW!

    VOTING: Just remember: "Be careful of what you DON'T wish for. You might just get it." GET OUT AND VOTE for what you DO wish for.

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  21. #71

    Re: New West Point Study Highlights Threat Posed by Far Right-Wing Groups In U.S.

    Whatever the percentage is, Americans LOVE to imprison their citizens.

    http://www.learnliberty.org/videos/u...-largest-world

    The United States incarcerates more people than any other country in the world—more even than China or Russia. In fact, more people are in prisons in the United States than in all other developed countries combined.
    http://libertycrier.com/government/w...tion-so-large/

    Today, the United States holds more human beings in prisons than any other country, both as a percentage of the population and in counting total numbers.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarce..._United_States

  22. #72
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    Re: New West Point Study Highlights Threat Posed by Far Right-Wing Groups In U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyBob View Post
    We need to do something about that.

    How about a movement using Heston in The Ten Commandments saying "Let my people go!" as a theme ad?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  23. #73
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    Re: New West Point Study Highlights Threat Posed by Far Right-Wing Groups In U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyBob View Post
    Idiotic war on drugs.

  24. #74
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    Re: New West Point Study Highlights Threat Posed by Far Right-Wing Groups In U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Idiotic war on drugs.
    Amen, and amen!

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  25. #75
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    Re: New West Point Study Highlights Threat Posed by Far Right-Wing Groups In U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    The interesting thing is that if a citizen tries to prevent a crime, he/she can be arrested for harassment in many jurisdictions -- idiotic, but true.


    BTW, I got hit on by a thirteen-y.o. on line once, trying to get me to meet him in a motel room. I told him "Sure -- e-mail me on your eighteenth birthday".

    He was PISSED!
    Yeah...but probably not as pissed as you would have been eleven months later when you saw yourself and Stone Phillips on MSNBC, from your prison cell...

    No, it PROBABLY wasn't them, but I would never trust any of that...even if I were looking for underage trade, which I'm certainly not.

    With To Catch A Predator, I've noticed a pattern - the purported age of the setup almost invariably seems to be 13. (and when the "next warm body" arrives to the destination, there is a teenager there who may well be 13 or close to it) PURE ENTRAPMENT.

    You certainly did the right thing.
    Last edited by frankfrank; January 20th, 2013 at 11:11 PM.
    "All legal U. S. residents who are 18 years or older, shall have an unconditional right to vote." - We need a 28th Amendment to the U. S. Constitution which resembles this...NOW!

    VOTING: Just remember: "Be careful of what you DON'T wish for. You might just get it." GET OUT AND VOTE for what you DO wish for.

    "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony

  26. #76
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    Re: New West Point Study Highlights Threat Posed by Far Right-Wing Groups In U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    I met him after he turned eighteen. When he figured out I was the guy who'd said that to him, I learned he was a total drama queen -- and very proud of all the older men he'd sucked in.
    so the dude was REAL?????
    "All legal U. S. residents who are 18 years or older, shall have an unconditional right to vote." - We need a 28th Amendment to the U. S. Constitution which resembles this...NOW!

    VOTING: Just remember: "Be careful of what you DON'T wish for. You might just get it." GET OUT AND VOTE for what you DO wish for.

    "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony

  27. #77
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
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    Re: New West Point Study Highlights Threat Posed by Far Right-Wing Groups In U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by frankfrank View Post
    so the dude was REAL?????
    Yeah. The real drama came when he found out that my dick had been in pussy -- he started backing away, waving his hands at me and saying he didn't want to be closer than ten feet to me.

    I should have asked everyone present to raise a hand if they'd ever had sexual contact with a female -- it would have been fun to watch him run out screaming about 'girl cooties' or something.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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