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  1. #1
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    France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    I'm surprised this hasn't been posted yet. As some of you who keep up with current events know, Mali's government recently collapsed due to a coupe that resulted in Al-Qaeda basically taking over the northern half of the country. For those of you who are geographically challenged, Mali is located here:



    Over the past year, the Islamic terrorists have been gaining in strength by taking over towns and cities in the northern region and imposing strict, Sharia law on the citizens of Mali, while building underground bases and bunkers to fortify their stolen arms and operations.

    Recently, the terrorists began to invade southern Mali, threatening to take over the entire country. Due to France's past history and unique relationship with the nation of Mali, France hit the "Oh, shit!" button and has basically invaded Mali in full force. Troops are on the ground and fighter jets are bombing Islamic terrorists in Mali to oblivion. Pundits are already calling this "France's Afghanistan" as more nations, including the U.S. are sending assistance to help France destroy Al-Qaeda from Mali.

    The full article can be found here:
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...d61_story.html

    This is a very sudden and shocking development in the international community. It is certainly unusual for France to be so militant over an internal problem in a foreign country. What are your thoughts over this situation? I am glad to see something being done about northern Mali as Al-Qaeda was basically building an Islamic State of their own. Still, the outcome of this conflict is uncertain and unpredictable. I wish France all the success in this campaign.
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    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    For more background information, here is an article that states what lead Mali up to the events of this conflict:

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/12/world/...q-a/index.html
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    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    I imagine that the neighbouring states have been pressing for something to be done before Mali turns into another Yemen, or even a base for exporting terror into the other North African countries. Unfortunately...it is Africa...and nor likely to turn out well.

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    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    Quote Originally Posted by Just_Believe18 View Post
    Due to France's past history and unique relationship with the nation of Mali
    Just to be clear, that "past history and unique relationship" consisted of France invading the region in 1892 and seizing control of the territory from the locals.

    As Wikipedia demurs, "Mali fell under French colonial rule in 1892" as if it was some kind of a natural accident.

    White guys always get a pass, when the things they are stealing belong to people with a little pigment in their skins.

  5. #5

    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    Quote Originally Posted by Just_Believe18 View Post
    This is a very sudden and shocking development in the international community. It is certainly unusual for France to be so militant over an internal problem in a foreign country.
    This is not so shocking and surprising. France has quite often intervened militarily in its former colonies in Africa. France has many military installations there and troops. It intervened militarily in the Ivory Coast last year (or the year before, I forget exactly) when the losing candidate for president refused to relinquish power.

  6. #6
    Look, listen and rejoice oakpope's Avatar
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    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    Apart from the colonization, the major faults of the colonial powers, mainly France and UK, is the very poor design of the countries. They traced frontiers without much thoughts about the populations, their different cultures, their ethnicities even their religion.
    Many problems stem from that original fault.

    Anyway, the situation in Mali is difficult.
    There are different groups at work here. In part the Tuareg, an ethnicity that encompasses several regions in different countries in the Sahara.

    They are searching since a long date to have their own country, and I'm inclined to think they are not without cause here.
    Because of their conflict with those countries, they have fallen in the path of Gadhaffi.
    Since his demise, they have taken arms in Mali.
    There, they have made alliance with unsavory Islamic fanatics.

    With these groups they have had several victories and have weaken the Malian State.
    Less than a year ago, a Colonel organized a putch in the capital of Bamako. That has finished to completely weaken the poor army.

    The Islamic groups in the North have seized the opportunity to take over all the North and even side stepped their former allied Tuareg.

    The UN and the West African countries have decided to intervene to lessen this threat to the security in the region, but they took way to long to prepare, and the rebels have decided to advance to the South before the coalition had time to establish his military staff.

    They have been too successful and the Malian President had no other choice than to call France to help them stop the rebels.

    That's why France have send troops now, even if the UN resolution foresaw the military aspect far more in the future.

    Worth noting that the Islamic rebels have taken several westerners as hostages among them 8 French.

    They are ruthless in their application of the 'Sharia' law, forbidding music, destroying ancient mausoleum of great cultural values near Timbuktu.

    But the French intervention is not finished at all and Im very afraid that it will be a very difficult task to eradicate these rebels from the region.

    My 2 cents as a French which has followed the news with great interest since Friday (thank you sleepless nights )
    Magna Veritas


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    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    White guys always get a pass, when the things they are stealing belong to people with a little pigment in their skins.
    Non-whining achievers do tend to get away with quite a lot.

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    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    Quote Originally Posted by Harke the Boeotarch View Post
    Non-whining achievers do tend to get away with quite a lot.
    True, unlike the sad lumps of anti-intelligence that glorify them ^_^
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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  9. #9

    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    JB18 -- You shouldn't be bringing up news like this. Al Qaeda has been defeated by the current Administration. Bin Laden lays at the bottom of the ocean and his followers hide in fear.

    I don't know where you get such nonsense -- The Washington Post must surely be a right wing newspaper out to get the President and they hate him because he's black.

  10. #10

    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    And yet nobody say that. Who said anything about Obama in this thread? This isn't a US operation... it's a French/ECOWAS operation. The US may provide logistical support, but France is the one with all the bases in the area (including in Chad).
    He has to get a jab at the President in whenever he can. Must fill his daily quota.

    Maybe he should move.

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    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    JB I have been following this. it is obvious the right wing hasnt because we had assets deployed to assist the failed commando raid and we will be deploying more assets to the region. Obama told congress today what he had done so far and what he intends to do. So far no wide eyed conspiracy about us starting wars.

    Perhaps the right wing nuts learned their lesson after being shellacked over foreign policy recently -- naaa! It is just happening to quick for them to formulate coordinated foamy mouthed attack but it is coming. We will provide ISR but have no real ordnance involvement in Mali. Obama is just announcing the end of Afghanistan. Now is not the time to start another war in a place much more hopeless than Afghanistan.
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    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    I don't think it is our war either. However as another nation takes up the fight against extremist we need to help. Even if it is simply providing superior intelligence gathering and automation while they do the boots on ground work. Just as they supported us. Although with France that was amazingly lukewarm support.

    We've been swinging the ax for way too long and Africa is going to fucking explode soon. We are very lucky to have a Democratic President and soon to be a Sec Def that is opposed to arms first questions later. We will see how it goes. I imagine the french will destroy several large caches of terrorist and then back off leaving the area less stable and just as prone to such groups. If we were stressed with a military expedition then France can not do so for long with only 2.3% GDP going to defense. Especially with the abysmal economic numbers in France about to drop further in France and across Europe. Germany was sustaining and now is entering a full on recession.

    Consider that around 170 hostages are held in Somalia alone. We have had a maritime policing force in the region for a few years now and that still does not stop the piracy and hostage taking. It is the toughest of situations and I wish the French people the best of luck but I sincerely doubt an effort can or will be sustained.
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  13. #13
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    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    We wont be training anyone. We may advise but I doubt we will have a significant force to enable actual training.

    France definitely has ties or they wouldn't be there at all.

    ECOWAS and France supporting from a distance is exactly what i am talking about. That will result in the same amount of change that has occurred to date in the region. None.

    Germany posted recession numbers in the last quarter of 2012. The reason there is a question is because until numbers post for first quarter of 2013 we will have no idea if they really are in full blown recession. At least by economic definition.

    Agreed the worldwide economy will improve slightly over 2013. That will take Europe with it. What really needs to happen is the US needs to sign a free trade agreement to improve flow from Europe to the United States. We are their biggest trading partner and need to hyper-inflate that situation. But again as we recover so will they.
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    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    France will be on standby... they have a major airforce base in Chad and several major investments in the region. They'll always be nearby if needed. ECOWAS will be the one with the most troops on the ground as they have the most at risk... and they may be there for a long time. Something needs to be done about the North. The secularist Tuareg rebels need to be convinced to fight alongside the Malian government, and something has to be done with granting them more autonomy.

    Germany only had a small decline, and that is projected to turn around.

    And yes, I agree with a free trade agreement with Europe. There are too many obstacles in that partnership.
    We have been on 'patrol' and on standby in the Persian Gulf for fifty years allying with our partners in the region. That standoff stuff really works right. (Yeah I dont think so either)

    Hard to see the turn around until it happens. I am hopeful but pessimistic. What economic factors have changed that would drive a turn around? What brought them to the decline in the first place?

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    And there are several stable countries in that area, such as Senegal and Ghana. And Liberia is a bit of a success story for ECOWAS. The region isn't all despair. There are significant natural resources there that some of the countries have used well to their advantage. Though a country like Nigeria has all sorts of problems, it's still a regional power.
    Oh there are nations standing up in the midst of the chaos but have no doubt that region will be the epicenter of international chaos and lawlessness for the rest of your lives and if you have children their lives. It does indeed have resources. How well has resource exploitation worked to bolster despotic regimes in the middle east and eventually culminated in two legs terror towards the affluent west and regime change by overthrowing the governments. No the exploitation of Africa will be just as severe, the winner will be just as few and the disenfranchised will be many.
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    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    Quote Originally Posted by Harke the Boeotarch View Post
    Non-whining achievers do tend to get away with quite a lot.
    I would not describe theft and exploitation as "achievements."

  16. #16
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    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    JB I have been following this. it is obvious the right wing hasnt because we had assets deployed to assist the failed commando raid and we will be deploying more assets to the region. Obama told congress today what he had done so far and what he intends to do. So far no wide eyed conspiracy about us starting wars.

    Perhaps the right wing nuts learned their lesson after being shellacked over foreign policy recently -- naaa! It is just happening to quick for them to formulate coordinated foamy mouthed attack but it is coming. We will provide ISR but have no real ordnance involvement in Mali. Obama is just announcing the end of Afghanistan. Now is not the time to start another war in a place much more hopeless than Afghanistan.
    LOL

    very Alexander Haig

    your "right wing" commentary is curious and frankly OFF

    are you responding to anyone/anything in particular ?

    or just riffing

    go France go

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    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    I'm wondering how the French will differentiate this from American politics.

  18. #18
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    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    Islamist leaders who refuse to surrender should be dealt with in long-standing Islamist and African tribal fashion: beheading.

    Really, though, the problem is not Islam, it is barbarism. Many cultures, not just in Africa, worship barbaric violence in a way most people in the West can't comprehend, it's so alien to us. Someone who will hold up his enemy's blood-dripping severed head can draw fanatics regardless of religion.

    Historically, the best response to barbarism has been a hand of authority that permits no nonsense. Hopefully between France and Nigeria that can be done here.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

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  19. #19
    Look, listen and rejoice oakpope's Avatar
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    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    More than 2500 French soldiers. Vehicles transported aboard the Mistral class BPC Dixmude.
    2 key towns recaptured by Malian/French armies.

    This picture, just because

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The solider is from the French Foreign Legion.
    Magna Veritas


  20. #20
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    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    LOL

    very Alexander Haig

    your "right wing" commentary is curious and frankly OFF

    are you responding to anyone/anything in particular ?

    or just riffing

    go France go
    Got your attention so apparently I was aiming. Still no conspiracy theory out of the tin foil hat crowd... I know that is true because you havent reported it diligently. :P
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  21. #21

    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    So this is a good war?

  22. #22
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    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    Sounds like the allied forces are setting up a hammer and anvil situation. The trick will be keeping the Islamists from squirting out sideways.

    Maybe if the Islamists get annihilated, others elsewhere will stop to reconsider.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  23. #23
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    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    This is a war that has to be won...Jack, no time to get contrarian. The thing is, if they get crushed will those jihadists who support this Islamic expansionism aim to get more game changing weaponry? Chemical, biological, nuclear? As fanatical as they are, they will not face the idea of falling down to their opponents in defeat. They will get nasty, and strike out where they will. They just don't want power....they want a radical vision of a way of life, incompatible with any modern concept of human rights and liberties.
    unofficial official mini meet Friday- Saturday April 11-12, 2014

  24. #24

    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    Nobody said this is a good war. But it's one that was pushed on the poor people of Mali. Many who were subjected to beheadings and amputations in Gao and Timbuktu... their military was in disarray after a botched coup... it was necessary to intervene after the Malian government requested it.
    From your posts here -- it sure sounds like you support this war.

    What US interests does it protect or promote?

  25. #25
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    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    What US interests does it protect or promote?
    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    What the fuck does this have to do with US interests?
    I'm not much of a fan of this war, but it is significant to U.S. interests. This war is an attempt by Al-Qaeda to establish a base of operations in Mali.

    Virtually all of the Al-Qaeda attacks on the USA have originated in parts of the world (including Africa) where Al-Qaeda has become successfully entrenched in a region. That enables it to recruit suicide bombers, secure financial backing, and organize attack plans.

    It is far more efficient to disrupt Al-Qaeda before it can plan attacks, than to try to deal with the consequences afterward. To that extent, it is in the US interest to stop this invasion of Mali now. We are fortunate to have the French doing the heavy lifting for us here.

  26. #26

    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    ^^

    We don't belong there. Any war is a bad war -- we need to just negotiate.

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    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Sounds like the allied forces are setting up a hammer and anvil situation. The trick will be keeping the Islamists from squirting out sideways.

    Maybe if the Islamists get annihilated, others elsewhere will stop to reconsider.
    There is not a chance in hell. Unfortunately because of western success these people have ended up on the bottom of the human trash heap. Those with nothing have nothing to lose. Islamism is a vehicle. Nothing more and these kind of folks are going nowhere.


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    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    ^^

    We don't belong there. Any war is a bad war -- we need to just negotiate.
    The ultimate in ignorance is being for the unnecessary Bush wars but against ISR and drone support efforts with our allies. Here is a little secret you may not have known until a black man entered office... We do this all the time..... OMG!!!!!! Why do you think we make 78% of the worlds arms and have a defense budget the size of all our enemies and allies.... combined? Is that because we like the wait and see approach.

    It will forever amuse me when folks speak out for this nation and then completely fail to understand WHAT this nation is and what it represents on a global scale.
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  29. #29

    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    gotcha .... dem's start wars GOOD, rep's start wars BAD

    Jayhawk ... another liberal who can't accept that Obama is black.

  30. #30

    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    gotcha .... dem's start wars GOOD, rep's start wars BAD

    Jayhawk ... another liberal who can't accept that Obama is black.
    Geeez Springer. Is this the best you can do?

    So this is the "15%". Not much.

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    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    gotcha .... dem's start wars GOOD, rep's start wars BAD

    Jayhawk ... another liberal who can't accept that Obama is black.
    You forgot the part where I am a warrior and a proponent of our international policy. Very weak response buddy but I get it ... you and your team of fundies are running out of propaganda. Losing over and over and over must really suck but as a Missouri guy you have to be used to losing.... Right?
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  32. #32

    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyBob View Post
    Geeez Springer. Is this the best you can do?

    So this is the "15%". Not much.
    So Bob .. you support this new war?

  33. #33

    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    You forgot the part where I am a warrior and a proponent of our international policy. Very weak response buddy but I get it ... you and your team of fundies are running out of propaganda. Losing over and over and over must really suck but as a Missouri guy you have to be used to losing.... Right?
    I don't support wars based on the political party who's in power at the time.

  34. #34
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    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    I don't support wars based on the political party who's in power at the time.
    So you are saying that you have never offered support of the wars in Afghanistan or Iraq? Your not saying that only now you have changed your tune now that the magically effective negro is in office?

    I obviously cannot go back and quote your past on the forum as it is against the rules. I suppose you can cling to the idea that you evolved.
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  35. #35
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    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    gotcha .... dem's start wars GOOD, rep's start wars BAD

    Jayhawk ... another liberal who can't accept that Obama is black.
    WTF?

    When your "reasoning" runs out, you resort to throwing around accusations of racism???

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  36. #36
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    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    So Bob .. you support this new war?
    WTF difference does it make? It's France's and Mali's and the other allies over there, not ours. Why do you, basically an isolationist, even care what they're doing?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  37. #37

    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    This was , as stated an "oh shit" moment. If you were wondering where all the armaments from the Libyian conflict went , well now you know.
    The Malian army went bush when they saw the strength and organisation of the invading force.
    This is a whole new situation for Mauritania, Niger and Nigeria - they have large oil and uranium reserves - then, ultimately, the whole African continent.
    We continue live in interesting times.

  38. #38
    Bammer's Papa
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    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    ^
    The Libyan dictator was already funding one side or the other there -- both, for all I know; more than once he switched sides in a conflict while it was ongoing.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  39. #39
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    Re: France is kicking ass and taking names (Mali War Begins)

    I keep wondering if anyone would propose sending troops if US didn't forbid it.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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