Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

[JockBoy87]

No matter how teasingly low the apple is to plucking, how stealthily you can pluck it, or how wealthy the apple tree is, stealing from it is still wrong, and it is still a crime.

Why shouldn't entertainment stars be worth millions? They have made something enriching for the whole dreary gray world that nobody else has ever made, and after all, public market forces are the ones that determine how much they are worth.

[xbuzzerx]

No matter how teasingly low the apple is to plucking, how stealthily you can pluck it, or how wealthy the apple tree is, stealing from it is still wrong, and it is still a crime.

Why shouldn't entertainment stars be worth millions? They have made something enriching for the whole dreary gray world that nobody else has ever made, and after all, public market forces are the ones that determine how much they are worth.

As others have pointed out early in the thread, pirating is never the reason that a successful piece of intellectual property-- videogame, movie, or song-- succeeds or doesn't succeed, and that likewise, that a bad one that does poorly failed.

There's even a debate as to whether people who do pirate heavily would have ever bought anything anyway, were pirating not available.

Yup, it's still stealing.

The concept that demonstrable harm was done, though, would require substantiation.

[JockBoy87]

As others have pointed out early in the thread, pirating is never the reason that a successful piece of intellectual property-- videogame, movie, or song-- succeeds or doesn't succeed, and that likewise, that a bad one that does poorly failed.

There's even a debate as to whether people who do pirate heavily would have ever bought anything anyway, were pirating not available.

Yup, it's still stealing.

The concept that demonstrable harm was done, though, would require substantiation.

Harm in every case is not required.

Stealing is a violation of public trust, without which society could not operate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Hobbes

[figjam]

you are STEALING nothing ever . The word is COPYING . The whole point of shoplifting or theft is something must be taken nothing every is . Ever . The crime is infringing legal rights of an individual not removing an object . Not a single thing is ever reduced ever .

semantics - potato, potato, tomato, tomato. Stealing is stealing - no matter how much dressing you put on it to make is sound innocent.

[xbuzzerx]

Harm in every case is not required.

Stealing is a violation of public trust, without which society could not operate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Hobbes

To define it as stealing, yes. But I never said it wasn't stealing.

That's different from claiming people are harmed or that money failed to trade hands that otherwise would have.

What cost has been incurred to the record label when I right click my mp3, hit "copy", and paste it into another directory?

$0.00.

[xbuzzerx]

semantics - potato, potato, tomato, tomato. Stealing is stealing - no matter how much dressing you put on it to make is sound innocent.

This statement only has any relevance if someone were arguing whether or not it's stealing, which no one is.

This is like a discussion where people are trying to talk about "HOW is being gay bad?" and someone is just repeating "being gay is bad."

[Kien]

Why shouldn't entertainment stars be worth millions? They have made something enriching for the whole dreary gray world that nobody else has ever made, and after all, public market forces are the ones that determine how much they are worth.

The public has failed in deciding how much people are 'worth.' Teachers and professors should be paid loads more than entertainment stars as they are the pinnacle to enriching everyone's future. Police officers, firefighters, and those in the armed services risk their lives to save others, yet get paid squat compared to entertainment stars. And dare I even say sanitation workers should be paid more than them for keeping the community clean. The public needs to get their priorities straight because people of other more important professions are being much too underpaid. These are the people who are worth millions.

[borg69unimatrix]

Instead of this being a thread involving Stealing vs Copying, what if this was a thread about Kidnapping vs Cloning ?

[figjam]

with that said, i download music, movies, porn, and damn near everything that i can get my hands on the internet for free. who wouldn't? just got my hands on some hand to find porn that i'd have to go over on a torrent for and DAMNIT, i'm happy.

Moderator comment: The first 25 posts were split from the 'Confessions' thread to create this one.

I hate the fact that the person posting the original question (refujiunderground) gives no feedback on the questions posted....

[xbuzzerx]

I hate the fact that the person posting the original question (refujiunderground) gives no feedback on the questions posted....

In fairness to him he never meant to start a thread discussion about it.... many confessions are hit-and-run, it was the mods who decided to split it out.

[figjam]

This statement only has any relevance if someone were arguing whether or not it's stealing, which no one is.

This is like a discussion where people are trying to talk about "HOW is being gay bad?" and someone is just repeating "being gay is bad."

You are as far off topic as gold fish are off ducks...

xxbuzzerx - read (really read and comprehend) before replying....

[xbuzzerx]

You are as far off topic as gold fish are off ducks...

xxbuzzerx - read (really read and comprehend) before replying....

Oh, I did. You said stealing is stealing no matter what.

Which I pointed out-- no one disputed.

[figjam]

Oh, I did. You said stealing is stealing no matter what.

Which I pointed out-- no one disputed.

I am a better man for not sharing a continent with you or your mother....

[xbuzzerx]

I am a better man for not sharing a continent with you or your mother....

At this point, that honor is mine.

[JockBoy87]

The public has failed in deciding how much people are 'worth.' Teachers and professors should be paid loads more than entertainment stars as they are the pinnacle to enriching everyone's future. Police officers, firefighters, and those in the armed services risk their lives to save others, yet get paid squat compared to entertainment stars. And dare I even say sanitation workers should be paid more than them for keeping the community clean. The public needs to get their priorities straight because people of other more important professions are being much too underpaid. These are the people who are worth millions.

The plebs of Rome make the world run, no doubt about that.

Nominal value, nevertheless, is indeed determined by market forces.

While education is a group effort concerted by millions of teachers and staff, music that enriches our lives is created by relatively few people.

[Rolyo85]

Stealing is stealing for sure. Pirating off the internet is not stealing. Glad we're all in agreement

[Beachguyj]

No matter how teasingly low the apple is to plucking, how stealthily you can pluck it, or how wealthy the apple tree is, stealing from it is still wrong, and it is still a crime.

Why shouldn't entertainment stars be worth millions? They have made something enriching for the whole dreary gray world that nobody else has ever made, and after all, public market forces are the ones that determine how much they are worth.

People are still gonna go to the movies and watch TV, those stars will still get paid. It's harder to sell music now, but it an artist sells his music to a commercial they can make money or they can make money with concerts. The biggest losers are the porn industry, they somehow they still manage to get by.

[figjam]

eeewww.....

[Coward92]

I download everything I want to play with and if something is really good (and I'm looking at you MAss Effect first episode) I go and buy it in the store.

[figjam]

I download everything I want to play with and if something is really good (and I'm looking at you MAss Effect first episode) I go and buy it in the store.

Illegal downloads are called exactly that for a reason....

[Rolyo85]

Illegal downloads are called exactly that for a reason....

Doesn't make it theft. And also, if the industry isn't adapting to easy internet sharing services, then it's the industry's problem. There are many things they can do to counter piracy other than directly persecuting it, which simply does not work.

[figjam]

Doesn't make it theft. And also, if the industry isn't adapting to easy internet sharing services, then it's the industry's problem. There are many things they can do to counter piracy other than directly persecuting it, which simply does not work.

that same argument says: "If girls wear short dresses the they are asking to be raped..."

Sis!

- - - Updated - - -

Doesn't make it theft. And also, if the industry isn't adapting to easy internet sharing services, then it's the industry's problem. There are many things they can do to counter piracy other than directly persecuting it, which simply does not work.

You are scarily wrong.....

[Sparky-Sparky-Boom-Boom]

I like to think of it as black market PR LOL

[Rolyo85]

All I am saying is, piracy exists and can't be controlled. Also, apart from some very isolated cases, it does NOT harm anyone (unlike rape, what sort of retarded comparison is that?) and no product gets stolen.

[illgetbi]

I hate the fact that the person posting the original question (refujiunderground) gives no feedback on the questions posted....

In fairness to him he never meant to start a thread discussion about it.... many confessions are hit-and-run, it was the mods who decided to split it out.

I'm curious to hear quasar's explanation of why he (they?) decided to split it out.

[xbuzzerx]

I'm curious to hear quasar's explanation of why he (they?) decided to split it out.

He and KaraBulut both said, in teh thread, that it was supposed to be more of a confessional and not a thread where people were debating or getting into topics that should be their own threads. Kinda killed the discussion for a couple days.

[illgetbi]

He and KaraBulut both said, in teh thread, that it was supposed to be more of a confessional and not a thread where people were debating or getting into topics that should be their own threads. Kinda killed the discussion for a couple days.

Oh good, because it seemed to me like maybe they were trying to shame and make an example out of someone.

I'm glad to hear it had nothing to do with mining candid discussion to "make a point" and/or be "used maliciously" against a JUB member.

[miaedu]

The RIAA Has Now Forced Google to Remove 10,000,000 Links...


This is what the war between the music industry and Google now looks like. Because by law, Google doesn't have to remove anything from Search without a proper takedown notice. But they do have to act when the notice arrives, even if there are millions of them.

See the new strategy? As of this morning, the RIAA has now sent a collective 10,000,000 takedown demands, for member labels Universal Music Group, Warner Music Group, and Sony Music Entertainment.

This is the latest official DMCA takedown report from Google (updated January 31st).

http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/perm.../20130204riaa/

[CowboyBob]

Artists use their talents to create products for people to pay them. If you make a copy of their talent you're taking away from them what they're owed. Not to mention the countless producers, engineers and hourly workers who make a living assisting the artists.

I've published a few books which are copyrighted protected. It's my publisher who's pissed at people copying the work to which they paid me handsomely. It's their profits they're protecting.

[blackbeltninja]

All I am saying is, piracy exists and can't be controlled. Also, apart from some very isolated cases, it does NOT harm anyone (unlike rape, what sort of retarded comparison is that?) and no product gets stolen.

You are joking, right?

When you steal something, you end up with something you didn't pay for, and which wasn't given to you freely by someone who did pay for it and who has the right to give it to you.

When you pirate something, you end up with... something you didn't pay for, and which wasn't given to you freely by someone who did pay for it and who has the right to give it to you.

On the face of it, there is no difference.

QED, your Honour.

-d-

[sixthson]

All I am saying is, piracy exists and can't be controlled. Also, apart from some very isolated cases, it does NOT harm anyone (unlike rape, what sort of retarded comparison is that?) and no product gets stolen.

You claim to be a musician. If you one day make a living at it and record your music for sale, are you going to be cool with others pirating it instead of paying you for it?

[Rolyo85]

You are joking, right?

When you steal something, you end up with something you didn't pay for, and which wasn't given to you freely by someone who did pay for it and who has the right to give it to you.

When you pirate something, you end up with... something you didn't pay for, and which wasn't given to you freely by someone who did pay for it and who has the right to give it to you.

On the face of it, there is no difference.

QED, your Honour.

-d-

The product you pirate however is still available for everyone else. Unlike stealing an object, in which case that object is no longer available for purchase and directly harms whoever sells it.

[Rolyo85]

You claim to be a musician. If you one day make a living at it and record your music for sale, are you going to be cool with others pirating it instead of paying you for it?

1. I've been making money with music for 10 years now, but I play on orchestras, so that doesn't apply, but...

2. I wouldn't be "cool" with it - though it's easy to find a lot of people who ARE - but I'd recognize it as a part of the deal. Also, most people are actually willing to pay for a legal download if reasonably priced these days.