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  1. #151
    JockBoy87
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    No matter how teasingly low the apple is to plucking, how stealthily you can pluck it, or how wealthy the apple tree is, stealing from it is still wrong, and it is still a crime.

    Why shouldn't entertainment stars be worth millions? They have made something enriching for the whole dreary gray world that nobody else has ever made, and after all, public market forces are the ones that determine how much they are worth.

  2. #152
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by JockBoy87 View Post
    No matter how teasingly low the apple is to plucking, how stealthily you can pluck it, or how wealthy the apple tree is, stealing from it is still wrong, and it is still a crime.

    Why shouldn't entertainment stars be worth millions? They have made something enriching for the whole dreary gray world that nobody else has ever made, and after all, public market forces are the ones that determine how much they are worth.
    As others have pointed out early in the thread, pirating is never the reason that a successful piece of intellectual property-- videogame, movie, or song-- succeeds or doesn't succeed, and that likewise, that a bad one that does poorly failed.

    There's even a debate as to whether people who do pirate heavily would have ever bought anything anyway, were pirating not available.

    Yup, it's still stealing.

    The concept that demonstrable harm was done, though, would require substantiation.

  3. #153
    JockBoy87
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    As others have pointed out early in the thread, pirating is never the reason that a successful piece of intellectual property-- videogame, movie, or song-- succeeds or doesn't succeed, and that likewise, that a bad one that does poorly failed.

    There's even a debate as to whether people who do pirate heavily would have ever bought anything anyway, were pirating not available.

    Yup, it's still stealing.

    The concept that demonstrable harm was done, though, would require substantiation.
    Harm in every case is not required.

    Stealing is a violation of public trust, without which society could not operate.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Hobbes

  4. #154
    JUB Addict figjam's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by csb999 View Post
    you are STEALING nothing ever . The word is COPYING . The whole point of shoplifting or theft is something must be taken nothing every is . Ever . The crime is infringing legal rights of an individual not removing an object . Not a single thing is ever reduced ever .
    semantics - potato, potato, tomato, tomato. Stealing is stealing - no matter how much dressing you put on it to make is sound innocent.

  5. #155
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by JockBoy87 View Post
    Harm in every case is not required.

    Stealing is a violation of public trust, without which society could not operate.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Hobbes
    To define it as stealing, yes. But I never said it wasn't stealing.

    That's different from claiming people are harmed or that money failed to trade hands that otherwise would have.

    What cost has been incurred to the record label when I right click my mp3, hit "copy", and paste it into another directory?

    $0.00.

  6. #156
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by figjam View Post
    semantics - potato, potato, tomato, tomato. Stealing is stealing - no matter how much dressing you put on it to make is sound innocent.
    This statement only has any relevance if someone were arguing whether or not it's stealing, which no one is.

    This is like a discussion where people are trying to talk about "HOW is being gay bad?" and someone is just repeating "being gay is bad."

  7. #157
    Kien
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by JockBoy87 View Post
    Why shouldn't entertainment stars be worth millions? They have made something enriching for the whole dreary gray world that nobody else has ever made, and after all, public market forces are the ones that determine how much they are worth.
    The public has failed in deciding how much people are 'worth.' Teachers and professors should be paid loads more than entertainment stars as they are the pinnacle to enriching everyone's future. Police officers, firefighters, and those in the armed services risk their lives to save others, yet get paid squat compared to entertainment stars. And dare I even say sanitation workers should be paid more than them for keeping the community clean. The public needs to get their priorities straight because people of other more important professions are being much too underpaid. These are the people who are worth millions.

  8. #158

    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Instead of this being a thread involving Stealing vs Copying, what if this was a thread about Kidnapping vs Cloning ?
    http://www.justusboys.com/forum/signaturepics/sigpic216959_1.gif

  9. #159
    JUB Addict figjam's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by refujiunderground View Post
    with that said, i download music, movies, porn, and damn near everything that i can get my hands on the internet for free. who wouldn't? just got my hands on some hand to find porn that i'd have to go over on a torrent for and DAMNIT, i'm happy.

    Moderator comment: The first 25 posts were split from the 'Confessions' thread to create this one.

    I hate the fact that the person posting the original question (refujiunderground) gives no feedback on the questions posted....

  10. #160
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by figjam View Post
    I hate the fact that the person posting the original question (refujiunderground) gives no feedback on the questions posted....
    In fairness to him he never meant to start a thread discussion about it.... many confessions are hit-and-run, it was the mods who decided to split it out.

  11. #161
    JUB Addict figjam's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    This statement only has any relevance if someone were arguing whether or not it's stealing, which no one is.

    This is like a discussion where people are trying to talk about "HOW is being gay bad?" and someone is just repeating "being gay is bad."

    You are as far off topic as gold fish are off ducks...

    xxbuzzerx - read (really read and comprehend) before replying....

  12. #162
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by figjam View Post
    You are as far off topic as gold fish are off ducks...

    xxbuzzerx - read (really read and comprehend) before replying....
    Oh, I did. You said stealing is stealing no matter what.

    Which I pointed out-- no one disputed.

  13. #163
    JUB Addict figjam's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Oh, I did. You said stealing is stealing no matter what.

    Which I pointed out-- no one disputed.
    I am a better man for not sharing a continent with you or your mother....

  14. #164
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by figjam View Post
    I am a better man for not sharing a continent with you or your mother....
    At this point, that honor is mine.

  15. #165
    JockBoy87
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kien View Post
    The public has failed in deciding how much people are 'worth.' Teachers and professors should be paid loads more than entertainment stars as they are the pinnacle to enriching everyone's future. Police officers, firefighters, and those in the armed services risk their lives to save others, yet get paid squat compared to entertainment stars. And dare I even say sanitation workers should be paid more than them for keeping the community clean. The public needs to get their priorities straight because people of other more important professions are being much too underpaid. These are the people who are worth millions.
    The plebs of Rome make the world run, no doubt about that.

    Nominal value, nevertheless, is indeed determined by market forces.

    While education is a group effort concerted by millions of teachers and staff, music that enriches our lives is created by relatively few people.
    Last edited by JockBoy87; January 18th, 2013 at 05:07 PM.

  16. #166
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Stealing is stealing for sure. Pirating off the internet is not stealing. Glad we're all in agreement
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  17. #167
    Is the King of JUB Beachguyj's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by JockBoy87 View Post
    No matter how teasingly low the apple is to plucking, how stealthily you can pluck it, or how wealthy the apple tree is, stealing from it is still wrong, and it is still a crime.

    Why shouldn't entertainment stars be worth millions? They have made something enriching for the whole dreary gray world that nobody else has ever made, and after all, public market forces are the ones that determine how much they are worth.
    People are still gonna go to the movies and watch TV, those stars will still get paid. It's harder to sell music now, but it an artist sells his music to a commercial they can make money or they can make money with concerts. The biggest losers are the porn industry, they somehow they still manage to get by.
    Never cease to find it strange
    How at midnight things seem hopeless
    But by dawn they've changed

  18. #168
    JUB Addict figjam's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    eeewww.....

  19. #169
    Coward92
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    I download everything I want to play with and if something is really good (and I'm looking at you MAss Effect first episode) I go and buy it in the store.

  20. #170
    JUB Addict figjam's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coward92 View Post
    I download everything I want to play with and if something is really good (and I'm looking at you MAss Effect first episode) I go and buy it in the store.
    Illegal downloads are called exactly that for a reason....

  21. #171
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by figjam View Post
    Illegal downloads are called exactly that for a reason....
    Doesn't make it theft. And also, if the industry isn't adapting to easy internet sharing services, then it's the industry's problem. There are many things they can do to counter piracy other than directly persecuting it, which simply does not work.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  22. #172
    JUB Addict figjam's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Doesn't make it theft. And also, if the industry isn't adapting to easy internet sharing services, then it's the industry's problem. There are many things they can do to counter piracy other than directly persecuting it, which simply does not work.
    that same argument says: "If girls wear short dresses the they are asking to be raped..."

    Sis!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Doesn't make it theft. And also, if the industry isn't adapting to easy internet sharing services, then it's the industry's problem. There are many things they can do to counter piracy other than directly persecuting it, which simply does not work.
    You are scarily wrong.....

  23. #173
    Sex God Sparky-Sparky-Boom-Boom's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    I like to think of it as black market PR LOL

  24. #174
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    All I am saying is, piracy exists and can't be controlled. Also, apart from some very isolated cases, it does NOT harm anyone (unlike rape, what sort of retarded comparison is that?) and no product gets stolen.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  25. #175
    illgetbi
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by figjam View Post
    I hate the fact that the person posting the original question (refujiunderground) gives no feedback on the questions posted....
    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    In fairness to him he never meant to start a thread discussion about it.... many confessions are hit-and-run, it was the mods who decided to split it out.
    I'm curious to hear quasar's explanation of why he (they?) decided to split it out.

  26. #176
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by illgetbi View Post
    I'm curious to hear quasar's explanation of why he (they?) decided to split it out.
    He and KaraBulut both said, in teh thread, that it was supposed to be more of a confessional and not a thread where people were debating or getting into topics that should be their own threads. Kinda killed the discussion for a couple days.

  27. #177
    illgetbi
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    He and KaraBulut both said, in teh thread, that it was supposed to be more of a confessional and not a thread where people were debating or getting into topics that should be their own threads. Kinda killed the discussion for a couple days.
    Oh good, because it seemed to me like maybe they were trying to shame and make an example out of someone.

    I'm glad to hear it had nothing to do with mining candid discussion to "make a point" and/or be "used maliciously" against a JUB member.

  28. #178
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    The RIAA Has Now Forced Google to Remove 10,000,000 Links...


    This is what the war between the music industry and Google now looks like. Because by law, Google doesn't have to remove anything from Search without a proper takedown notice. But they do have to act when the notice arrives, even if there are millions of them.

    See the new strategy? As of this morning, the RIAA has now sent a collective 10,000,000 takedown demands, for member labels Universal Music Group, Warner Music Group, and Sony Music Entertainment.

    This is the latest official DMCA takedown report from Google (updated January 31st).

    http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/perm.../20130204riaa/

  29. #179

    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Artists use their talents to create products for people to pay them. If you make a copy of their talent you're taking away from them what they're owed. Not to mention the countless producers, engineers and hourly workers who make a living assisting the artists.

    I've published a few books which are copyrighted protected. It's my publisher who's pissed at people copying the work to which they paid me handsomely. It's their profits they're protecting.

  30. #180
    The old familiar sting blackbeltninja's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    All I am saying is, piracy exists and can't be controlled. Also, apart from some very isolated cases, it does NOT harm anyone (unlike rape, what sort of retarded comparison is that?) and no product gets stolen.
    You are joking, right?

    When you steal something, you end up with something you didn't pay for, and which wasn't given to you freely by someone who did pay for it and who has the right to give it to you.

    When you pirate something, you end up with... something you didn't pay for, and which wasn't given to you freely by someone who did pay for it and who has the right to give it to you.

    On the face of it, there is no difference.

    QED, your Honour.

    -d-
    Members: [insert appropriate/relevant wise saying or deep thought here]
    Thank you.


    I hope you get this message.
    Comments welcome.

  31. #181
    Ruminating
    sixthson's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    All I am saying is, piracy exists and can't be controlled. Also, apart from some very isolated cases, it does NOT harm anyone (unlike rape, what sort of retarded comparison is that?) and no product gets stolen.
    You claim to be a musician. If you one day make a living at it and record your music for sale, are you going to be cool with others pirating it instead of paying you for it?
    Everyone wants to be heard. No one wants to listen.

  32. #182
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackbeltninja View Post

    You are joking, right?

    When you steal something, you end up with something you didn't pay for, and which wasn't given to you freely by someone who did pay for it and who has the right to give it to you.

    When you pirate something, you end up with... something you didn't pay for, and which wasn't given to you freely by someone who did pay for it and who has the right to give it to you.

    On the face of it, there is no difference.

    QED, your Honour.

    -d-
    The product you pirate however is still available for everyone else. Unlike stealing an object, in which case that object is no longer available for purchase and directly harms whoever sells it.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  33. #183
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixthson View Post

    You claim to be a musician. If you one day make a living at it and record your music for sale, are you going to be cool with others pirating it instead of paying you for it?
    1. I've been making money with music for 10 years now, but I play on orchestras, so that doesn't apply, but...

    2. I wouldn't be "cool" with it - though it's easy to find a lot of people who ARE - but I'd recognize it as a part of the deal. Also, most people are actually willing to pay for a legal download if reasonably priced these days.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  34. #184

    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?


  35. #185
    JUB 10k Club
    PreTTy PeTe's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    am I the only one that thinks hollywood is fucked and the music industry?

    just asking




  36. #186
    JUB Addict SaskGuy's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    It's just like listening to, and copying music off the radio.
    Actually, it should be a crime to charge for an MP3! You see the low quality crap they have on iTunes? What would you rather do? Pay for a 128 kbps bad re-recording, or download the original at 320 kbps for free? Maybe less people would download for free if iTunes offered MP3s that didn't sound like a crappy soundalike band on a Fisher-Price tape recorder.

    You know what brought this on? Stores that charge $20+ for a CD... their greed eventually lead to their demise.

    How about buying used CDs, records, etc? I guess they would consider that stealing too, since the money isn't going to the record companies.

  37. #187
    JUB Addict Audio Tech's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    In the meantime I ONLY stream from Pandora or other music sites on the internet. At $20 a CD or low bitrate MP3 they can all kiss my ass.

  38. #188
    Thankfully Liberal & Gay
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by SaskGuy View Post
    Stores that charge $20+ for a CD... their greed eventually lead to their demise.

    How about buying used CDs, records, etc? I guess they would consider that stealing too, since the money isn't going to the record companies.
    I actually know somebody who thinks that people who sell used records or CD's in stores, music fairs, or on ebay, should all be prison. Because, after all, in his point of view, anybody selling used music is only doing so because somebody pirated their own copy of it so they can sell the hard copy. ALWAYS.

    Yes...if the seller didn't do the piracy directly, that seller is ALWAYS abetting and aiding criminal piracy activity.

    Yikes!!!!!!!

    He is dead wrong.
    "All legal U. S. residents who are 18 years or older, shall have an unconditional right to vote." - 28th Amendment, US Constitution?
    "But, hey, who cares about women and their rights when the religious liberty of a nationwide chain of arts and crafts stores is at stake?" - Daily Kos, 30 June 2014
    "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony

  39. #189
    Already Gone BreakTheIce's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    It's actually really hurtful sometimes. As an example,

    The white lion film in Africa was supposed to bring in money to an organization which was taking care of animals by donations given by other people. The center was on an extremely tight budget, they'd have to give their females birth control because they couldn't afford to care for new babies and such. The white lion who the film was based on was too old to be released anywhere and didn't have a pride of his own, so he was to be cared for as well.

    But because people in South Africa illegally downloaded the film and people also sold pirated versions of the film, the center never received enough revenue from ticket sales to do anything and their animals continue to suffer.

    Illegally downloading something is the same as you providing a service for someone, and they just closing a door on your face without paying you. It's basically not a good thing to do.

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