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  1. #51
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    I remember when music came on cassette tapes and movies came on VHS tapes. All the kids at school shared tapes and you made copies for your friends. Then along came CD's and DVD's and they told us that these were going to save us a fortune, they said people won't be able to pirate them so there will be no piracy costs passed on to the consumer and also as well as being much higher quality the physical cost of the cd's and dvd's will be much less because of the moving parts on cassette tapes and bulky VHS tapes to produce, so again we will be able to massively lower the cost of your music and movies. Brilliant we said and we all rushed out to buy this new technology.

    And whilst it was definetely much better quality than what we had been using it didn't end up being cheaper, infact they cost way way way more to buy. The reason was there was no piracy, the industry had complete control over us and could charge what they liked, they took advantage and for a while the consumers were shit on.

    Piracy is a good thing, it keeps the MPAA and the RIAA in check. If they could press a magic button and remove piracy completely we'd end up paying a fortune for our movies and music. Hollywood also made record profits this year and the vast majority of 'pirates' actually support the industry as well. I pay to go to the cinema from time to time and will buy the odd thing here and there, I just don't buy everything.

  2. #52
    Young at Heart ravenstar's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by csb999 View Post
    watching tv is illegally downloading . Do try to forget , have some respect for your legal system .
    Sorry but that has to be one of the most ridiculous comments I've ever read on here. Watching TV is not stealing. Television channels pay for a licence to broadcast the content from the production house who made it. Each time an episode of a TV show or movie is re-aired on television there is a fee payable to the production house which goes towards the royalties the performers and those who produced the show earn.

    I don't download movies or tv shows unless I buy them from iTunes. In Australia we really don't have much of a choice. We've got nothing like Netflix or hulu, they're all blocked by copyright.

    There is absolutely no grey area in this. If you download a song, a film or anything else illegally over the internet from places like Pirate Bay or whatever you are denying the producers of that material the right to earn a living on the products they create.

    When production companies lose revenue, they lose the ability to make new things, to hire people who are artists, or writers or performers.

    Frankly it takes nothing but a moment of thought to figure this out. You write an eBook, you slave over it, pay for it to be edited professionally, cover art designed professionally. You take a year of your life to create a product. And someone comes along and downloads it for free from some random site and you get nothing for what you've created. That example is something I know personally.

    Several years ago I wrote an ebook, worked my arse off on it for nearly a year to make it as professional as possible, only to find it on some random site listed as "free ebook of the month" after doing a google search of the title and there was nothing I could do about it.

    Pirating is called pirating for a reason. Look up the meaning of the word pirate.

  3. #53
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Nobody addressed my quote but I wanted to repost it since your post made it relevant again imho.
    Isn't the basic difference accessibility? If you bookmark a song, you cannot listen to it anywhere or whenever you want, and the copyright owners still have a certain amount of control regarding when and how it is broadcasted, not to mention that they receive a publication rights fee from YouTube. When you convert a video to mp3 format, you are engaging in an illegitimate act, because those who produced it/hold the rights to it do not derive any benefit from it.

    I think that, when it comes down to piracy, we must take two things into account: first, the culture of entitlement that has taken over our society. We have been taught that, as long as we can pay to access something, we are entitled to it and we should have it almost instantly. Since As a consequence, many people believe that paying for an internet connection gives them the right to take anything they want, because it is symbolically included in the price.

    Another serious problem that I find with piracy is that many people cannot find any incentives to abide by the law, when content producers are proving to be both inflexible (as many of you have said before me) and greedy. For instance, the expense of uploading and storing mp3 files for commercial distribution is below minimal, among other things because record companies eliminate variable overheads such as packaging, printing, physical distribution and the salaries of the workers who participate in those processes. Yet and still, the price of a single track is equivalent to its proportional value in CD format, even though the cost of making it available to the public is about a 10th of making it physically available to buyers. Many people are bound to be exploited by situations like these. The same could be applicable to films; while there must be a protocol of some form to guarantee proper distribution and the preservation of publication rights from studios, it is difficult for them to justify taking so long for films to be available for household consumption, when they could be far more accessible, at cheaper prices, through streaming services like Lovefilm and Netflix. Also, why should people pay extortionate prices for DVDs, when a year later they will be available for about 1/4 of the original retail price? Wouldn't it be far more profitable (not to mention, safer), to make content available at flat rates, which would guarantee accessibility to the largest possible population contingent? By lowering prices and maybe, just maybe, not expecting people to pay full price for utter rubbish, content producers could rely on the bona fide behaviour of a grateful public that sees a positive relationship between the quality of the products they get, and their allotted retail price.

    In this I do not include, though, independent and small companies, who do not have many outlets through which they can make their content available, and desperately need every single legitimate sale they can make.

    So, maybe it is an oversimplified conclusion, but I think that making a tacit contract between companies and the public, in which faster consumption at lower rates will only be made through legal channels, is the best option so far.

  4. #54
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Well, I know there are some youtubes that aren't accessible from say, an iphone or mobile device... but it seems like the pretty big majority are available. The only thing different between creating a file yourself or bookmarking a youtube is the added step of opening a browser. It's honestly in my view extremely hard to make the case that one damages an artist and the other doesn't.

  5. #55

    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Do artists get paid from Youtube views ?
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  6. #56
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    Re: Confess something that might surprise others or damage your reputation on JUB - 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by tombastep View Post
    I made that comment because you made an insult at me that you're "talking to air" even though I pretty much agreed with you that I was stealing and what I was saying wasn't a legitimate excuse.

    And now you're making assumptions that I want you to kiss my ass which is why I stated I pirated in the first place when I responded to refuj. I didn't want it to come off that I am superior to him and completely making him out to be a bad guy. Because I am not any better than him or less guilty of it.

    And you're the one "talking to air"?
    Grow up man , the lass made a very valid point you are the one who fell out his pram so full of shit oops indignation .
    Last edited by medic1; January 11th, 2013 at 08:27 PM.

  7. #57
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by borg69unimatrix View Post
    Do artists get paid from Youtube views ?
    I'm not sure, but with the accessibility of Youtube, they certainly get exposure. Searching for new music on Youtube is a hobby of mine, and I've seen many artists grow exponentially in terms of popularity after some of their tracks have been uploaded to a promoter's channel. There are always going to be people who will take for free what they can, but I've been able to purchase music and support many artists after stumbling across uploads on Youtube.

    Done right, music on Youtube is a good thing. A great thing, even.

  8. #58
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by csb999 View Post
    watching tv is illegally downloading . Do try to forget , have some respect for your legal system .
    CRAP---never heard of paying for a tv licence...................

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    Re: Confess something that might surprise others or damage your reputation on JUB - 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by tombastep View Post
    Pretty sure.

    There are people who make money through making various types of youtube videos. Vevo seems to be the one the Artists tend to use.



    I didn't do or say anything wrong to her to warrant the way she started to talk to me and other people in this thread. And I agreed with the point she made and pointed out my hypocrisy. So please don't try and stir up something that has clearly been finished.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Throws himself around the room in a baby-tantrum , you would know if i was trying to stir things up .
    May i remind you that like you i am entitled to post it as i see it .

    Now be a good boy and do your homework....................

  10. #60
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by tombastep View Post
    Drop your superiority complex, it's not flattering.
    OOH i smell paranoia , i certainly do not have a superiority complex , just some common-sense .

    Have you finished your 3 times table yet ?

  11. #61

    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by medic1 View Post
    OOH i smell paranoia , i certainly do not have a superiority complex , just some common-sense .

    Have you finished your 3 times table yet ?

    Why don’t you give it another go after you’ve sobered up.

    You’re making an ass of yourself.

  12. #62

    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    I have never downloaded any music. I have a massive vinyl and CD collection...I love the art on LPs and prefer the sound of vinyl....

    I even pay for my porn on AEBN...had an account for many many years.

    I also buy my own movies and TV episodes I get on HULU and I have a fairly large library on Amazon that I have paid for the individual episodes.

    I wouldn't download anything for free because it is stealing. I am very superstitious about karma and reaping what you sow so stealing is just not an option for me. If you need to know if it is wrong...ask yourself how you like it when someone steals something for you. There's your answer.
    Last edited by eastofeden; January 11th, 2013 at 09:20 PM.

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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kahaih View Post
    Why don’t you give it another go after you’ve sobered up.

    You’re making an ass of yourself.
    1 i can assure you that at 6am i have not had a drink .
    2 So if you can accuse me of being inebriated i can accuse you of being a dick-head..............

  14. #64
    Sex God Lord Booticus's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    The last time I went to the cinema to see the Hobbit I payed £9.50. That's just over $15. That was just a standard showing. No 3D, no XTREME screning, not even the 48 fps. Me and my friend joked that we should be able to pirate films to justify the cost of the ticket. I remember a time when it was £2.50 a ticket. *sigh*

    Personally piracy can be a good thing. It's taken control away from the company's so they actually have to consider their audience when they release a product instead of just how much money can they bleed from us. If they do a shit job people will just end up pirating and they don't make money anyway.

    Sure some people will pirate no matter what the situation, but they aren't a large number of the peoples. The majority will legally buy your product if your business practises are good enough. That means no screwing over with DRM, no online codes to stop trade ins and don't make them have to take out a small loan to afford it.

    Besides that I have a small problem with theft or stealing being used to describe piracy.
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    Last edited by Lord Booticus; January 12th, 2013 at 06:49 AM.

  15. #65
    Young at Heart ravenstar's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    So you're just taking a copy of the money the artist worked hard for during the creation of the product you're copying Lord Booticus? So the artist still gets paid their fee for their hard work, because you've only made a copy of it, or are you sending them the cheque directly?

    Call it what you like, it's still means you get something for free and the person who made it gets nothing for their hard work.

  16. #66
    JUB Addict Audio Tech's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by PreTTy PeTe View Post
    yes I do.

    do you have an awswer?
    Well, the RIAA once sued someone for more money than is in existence globally.... so apparently even THAT was not enough.
    So as far as I know, there is technically NO limit to the amount of money they'd like. One of the major problems in a Capitalistic society.... absolute and uninhibited GREED. Which, in the end, is unsustainable and will eventually collapse. The crash we just had is just a forewarning of what's to come.

    We, as a whole society, need a re-set. A re-evaluation of ourselves in general. In the end, you cannot EAT money.

    I am obviously a deviant as a human being. Not only do I like Guys, but on top of everything else, I take only what I need in life. Nothing more. I am not greedy at all. I KNOW this attitude will not serve me well when I get old, because I should be amassing as much money as possible at ANY cost, no matter who I fuck over to do it. Yet I don't.

  17. #67
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by Audio Tech View Post
    Well, the RIAA once sued someone for more money than is in existence globally.... so apparently even THAT was not enough.
    So as far as I know, there is technically NO limit to the amount of money they'd like. One of the major problems in a Capitalistic society.... absolute and uninhibited GREED. Which, in the end, is unsustainable and will eventually collapse. The crash we just had is just a forewarning of what's to come.

    We, as a whole society, need a re-set. A re-evaluation of ourselves in general. In the end, you cannot EAT money.

    I am obviously a deviant as a human being. Not only do I like Guys, but on top of everything else, I take only what I need in life. Nothing more. I am not greedy at all. I KNOW this attitude will not serve me well when I get old, because I should be amassing as much money as possible at ANY cost, no matter who I fuck over to do it. Yet I don't.
    what are you saying Hollywood and the record labels are greedy?

    what I think it is that they haven't kept up with the fast pace of the evolving Internet.

    then they look for scapegoats.




  18. #68
    美しいヨーロッパ Scealle's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    This is a rather sensitive topic. Being an artist myself I'd be really pissed of if I spent sleepless months on a project and have it illegally downloaded. However it is also pretty ridiculous when majority of my art freinds themselves does not support the industry and they themselves seems to have illegally downloaded games and music.

  19. #69
    JUB Addict umjreon88's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    I have the same belief as the OP too. I mean, ultimately, the actors got paid for their roles and the director still gets his international acclaim so I don't see the deal. Also, because I have not access to TV and my busy schedule makes for a difficult time to find a time to chill with friends and watch our favourite shows. So what I do is to stream them online illegally.

    Besides, I listen to the radio and stream songs on youtube so I save disc space on my hard drive!
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  20. #70
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Booticus View Post
    The last time I went to the cinema to see the Hobbit I payed £9.50. That's just over $15. That was just a standard showing. No 3D, no XTREME screning, not even the 48 fps. Me and my friend joked that we should be able to pirate films to justify the cost of the ticket. I remember a time when it was £2.50 a ticket. *sigh*

    Personally piracy can be a good thing. It's taken control away from the company's so they actually have to consider their audience when they release a product instead of just how much money can they bleed from us. If they do a shit job people will just end up pirating and they don't make money anyway.

    Sure some people will pirate no matter what the situation, but they aren't a large number of the peoples. The majority will legally buy your product if your business practises are good enough. That means no screwing over with DRM, no online codes to stop trade ins and don't make them have to take out a small loan to afford it.

    Besides that I have a small problem with theft or stealing being used to describe piracy.
    Click image for larger version. 

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Views:	28 
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    That's another thing to consider. A lot of studies have shown that habitual pirates (people who pirate movies.. games.. music left and right) frequently are people who never would have been paying customers anyway. They either don't have the money, or would simply refuse to walk into a store and pay 20, 30, 50 bucks for something on a dvd. This is something that's been discussed quite a lot in the videogame industry as one example because "pirating" is the excuse for ever-increasing prices and particularly for very draconian and restrictive DRM which inconvenience the legitimate purchaser, when a lot of the research has shown that people who heavily pirate never would have legitimately purchased anyway, and many of them are in countries known for heavy pirating like Taiwan. So the degree to which actual money has failed to trade hands when it would have without pirating is in some cases exaggerated.

  21. #71

    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    If I do a job at work, I get paid for it based on what my work was worth. One job, one payment. I don't have the luxury of doing the job to whatever standards *I* see fit, and then charging whatever I want for the job, and then KEEP getting paid for that same one job for all eternity -- which is kind of how I see the digital media moguls being.
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  22. #72
    JUB Addict Audio Tech's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by PreTTy PeTe View Post
    what are you saying Hollywood and the record labels are greedy?

    what I think it is that they haven't kept up with the fast pace of the evolving Internet.

    then they look for scapegoats.
    That's true. Old business models no longer work, especially in our now so connected and "instant gratification" society.

    I, myself, had to adapt to new ways to do business or go bankrupt. Fortunately for me, I soon realized the limitations of the old ways and am doing much better in a global market. No scapegoats for me. Just my own damn fault if I want to be stubborn.

  23. #73
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by Audio Tech View Post
    That's true. Old business models no longer work, especially in our now so connected and "instant gratification" society.

    I, myself, had to adapt to new ways to do business or go bankrupt. Fortunately for me, I soon realized the limitations of the old ways and am doing much better in a global market. No scapegoats for me. Just my own damn fault if I want to be stubborn.
    I agree with that particularly in reference to distributors trying to be too anal and greedy about accessibility. If they've gone out of thier way to make their movie inaccessible on netflix, have slapped youtube for having any clips from it up, and literally the only way to go get it is to hunt it down in a Best Buy or something, I can't help but feel like "get with the times."

  24. #74
    Sex God Lord Booticus's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenstar View Post
    So you're just taking a copy of the money the artist worked hard for during the creation of the product you're copying Lord Booticus? So the artist still gets paid their fee for their hard work, because you've only made a copy of it, or are you sending them the cheque directly?

    Call it what you like, it's still means you get something for free and the person who made it gets nothing for their hard work.
    It's pretty much an extreme version of lending. Someone has bought the CD/DVD/Game and has then used the internet as a medium to lend it to anyone who can find it. The product isn't stolen and the pirater isn't stealing the item from the internet, so it isn't theft; it's breech of copyright.

    The reason why it's got the name of theft is because theft is something everyone can empathise with; breech of copyright is a very corporate sounding term that would conjure little sympathy for the company's.

    I just feel that if we are to beat a problem we first need to understand it and calling it something that it isn't can become a hinderance to getting the correct solution. Instead we get silly things.

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    That's another thing to consider. A lot of studies have shown that habitual pirates (people who pirate movies.. games.. music left and right) frequently are people who never would have been paying customers anyway. They either don't have the money, or would simply refuse to walk into a store and pay 20, 30, 50 bucks for something on a dvd. This is something that's been discussed quite a lot in the videogame industry as one example because "pirating" is the excuse for ever-increasing prices and particularly for very draconian and restrictive DRM which inconvenience the legitimate purchaser, when a lot of the research has shown that people who heavily pirate never would have legitimately purchased anyway, and many of them are in countries known for heavy pirating like Taiwan. So the degree to which actual money has failed to trade hands when it would have without pirating is in some cases exaggerated.
    Which comes to the point; downloads do not necessarily equate to sales.

  25. #75

    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    If I buy a movie, and then invite 15 people over to watch it and do this several times would I still be a pirate?

    Dozens of people got to watch it without paying for it.

    ... or if I go into a book store and just read the comics there without purchasing them, is that piracy?
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  26. #76
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Eh, it's all been said already, but to reiterate:

    1. Serial downloaders aren't potential customers. Most would never have bought the product if it weren't available for free.

    2. Downloading can be a gateway to purchases instead of redirecting people from them. Case in point - "illegal" downloading (and fansubs) has been essential to popularizing anime outside of Japan. Without it, Japanese animation would have never become as popular as it is today.

    3. Downloading is only harmful for unpopular products, and even then, it could help the product instead of ruin it.


    Personally, I pirate a lot of stuff, but I also buy a ton of things. When it comes to tv shows, I almost always download them first, but every time I've liked a show, I've bought it afterwards. I don't pirate movies because I watch them on the big screen and then buy the blu-ray. I don't pirate games because I play only on consoles. I pirate books because prior to buying a Kindle, I've spent more money on books than the US on its defense budget. And I pirate music because I'm a cheap fuck.

    No, actually, to be fair, I pirate both books and music nowadays, simply because I grew up in a pirate culture where digital was = to "download for free". I have not been able to move past that sentiment. I simply can't force myself to pay for digital stuff. I want all my movies/shows/games to be actual objects, not just files, and I even buy some of my favorite books just to have them on a shelf, even though if I ever wanted to read them again, I'd still do it on the illegally downloaded file on my Kindle...

    I guess I'm weird. But considering the amount of money I pay for my entertainment, I just can't make myself feel bad for pirating the rest.
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  27. #77
    JUB Addict Audio Tech's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Technically..... yes. Technically singing "Happy Birthday" at any venue is also considered a public performance and is subject to copyright laws. Technically. ABSURD! But nonetheless....

    So don't sing popular songs in the shower loud enough for people outside to hear. Yeah.... Technically.
    Stupid, isn't it? We have some really screwed up laws. But technically there are laws that prohibit sex in anything other than missionary position. So who the hell enforces these????

    And.... yes, if they could figure out how to Neuralize us after a movie so we'd forget and pay to see it again.... they would.



    Quote Originally Posted by borg69unimatrix View Post
    If I buy a movie, and then invite 15 people over to watch it and do this several times would I still be a pirate?

    Dozens of people got to watch it without paying for it.

    ... or if I go into a book store and just read the comics there without purchasing them, is that piracy?

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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Eh, it's all been said already, but to reiterate:

    1. Serial downloaders aren't potential customers. Most would never have bought the product if it weren't available for free.

    2. Downloading can be a gateway to purchases instead of redirecting people from them. Case in point - "illegal" downloading (and fansubs) has been essential to popularizing anime outside of Japan. Without it, Japanese animation would have never become as popular as it is today.

    3. Downloading is only harmful for unpopular products, and even then, it could help the product instead of ruin it.
    1. Yes. I have a well to do friend who owns 3 houses and works for Apple. He simply will NOT buy anything. He either mooches music and videos from friends or torrent sites. He simply REFUSES to pay for content. He is not, nor will EVER be a customer. That's his mindset, and that's that. Nope, no way, and not even for $1 a disc.

    2. I myself have downloaded certain stuff to check it out, because I have been "burned" in the past with crappy media. Many times I have either: "Fuck this crap! Total waste of time and money..... damn glad I didn't BUY this crap!" (Hit Delete)
    Or: "Hey, this is really good!" "I want the original" (Buys item online)


    3. True. Crap is crap. I'd rather not find out I PAID to throw something in the trash.

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    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    No, my 3 was about indie projects and cool stuff with limited success, not about crap. The indie game studios that died because of piracy, that buzzer mentioned, for example.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    BTW, does anyone here remember when you could walk into a record or CD shop and LISTEN to a title before you bought it?

    You found out right there on the spot if something was crap or not before you put your money down.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    No, my 3 was about indie projects and cool stuff with limited success, not about crap. The indie game studios that died because of piracy, that buzzer mentioned, for example.
    Ahh.. sorry about that.

  31. #81
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by G-Lexington View Post
    Do you remember the outcry a few months ago, when it appeared the new Instagram settings allowed the company to use any of the pictures people posted for commercial purposes? As one person pointed out, "Oh I see - when it's YOUR work that somebody is going to use without permission or financial compensation, THEN it's a problem."

    Lex
    Apples and pears, old boy. Instagram and FB are going to SELL your image or charge advertisers to use it. The average home entertainment pirate is not making money off his illegalities (sure some probably are, but that's another issue. I believe most countries have provisions and distinguish between possession of stolen goods vs selling of stolen goods).

    Use my image for non-commercial purposes, I can handle. Making money off me unfairly... not cool. I believe in the olden days that was commonly referred to as slavery, and as such I believe it has been outlawed (almost) everywhere.

    -d-

  32. #82

    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    The word "Illegal" said it all. If you truly support something, pay for it. When you download somethng you didn't pay for "movies, games, music, porn" that's stealing period. How would you feel if someone downloaded something you make money off?
    Eternal youth and endless life. I'll sacrifice everything and everyone to obtain it

  33. #83

    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by csb999 View Post
    you are STEALING nothing ever . The word is COPYING . The whole point of shoplifting or theft is something must be taken nothing every is . Ever . The crime is infringing legal rights of an individual not removing an object . Not a single thing is ever reduced ever .
    yeah that is bullshit
    imagine this, you invented the telephone, i copy the idea (without consent) and get a patent and make profit out of it. did i not steal that idea?
    now this, i made a movie, you copy a movie (without consent) and derive pleasure from watching it (which is analogous to profit). are you sure you haven't stolen it?

  34. #84

    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kien View Post
    Let's criminalize youtube'ers who put songs on repeat cause they aint paying a single cent either.
    If the artists made that upload, or have agreed with it, then obviously it is ok.
    It's like, if i offer you a gift, you did not steal it from me, got it?

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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by ruivinho View Post
    yeah that is bullshit
    imagine this, you invented the telephone, i copy the idea (without consent) and get a patent and make profit out of it. did i not steal that idea?
    now this, i made a movie, you copy a movie (without consent) and derive pleasure from watching it (which is analogous to profit). are you sure you haven't stolen it?
    Actually, yes, he hasn't. The movie is intact, and anyone who wishes to purchase it is free to do so.


    And before people start those absolutist rants about how it's illegal and that's that, maybe it is worth addressing the issue of movie companies being about ten years behind on the times. Piracy is not only a fact of life, it is virtually impossible to stop in the digital age. So instead of wasting resources fighting it, why not try to offer a better product than the one people are pirating?
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Let me just throw in for consideration-- any well known song will have like, hundreds of postings of it on youtube. Many of them with individual users setting their own backdrop, scenery, video footage, fan tribute, or even just a blank screen with the lyrics in the video. None of those hits are going to the artist. So to me, the difference between "saving it for winamp" and "pulling up a youtube to listen to it", not paying money either way, is still paper thin.

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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benjoe View Post
    And whilst it was definetely much better quality than what we had been using it didn't end up being cheaper, infact they cost way way way more to buy. The reason was there was no piracy, the industry had complete control over us and could charge what they liked, they took advantage and for a while the consumers were shit on.
    I remermber, in the old days, even into the first few years of the piracy era, when movies first started coming out on VHS VideoTape, the going price for movies was $79.99 to $99.99 EACH. That didn't exactly encourage anybody to buy the product legally, did it?

    That also helped to set, in stone, the mindset that piracy was cool. Perhaps if the studios had started selling movies for something similar to two or three times the price of a ticket to the cinema, more people would have paid for ownership. Video tape itself was quite expensive in these early days, so going cheap like $5 or $10 per movie wasn't an option, yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kien View Post
    I remember listening to William Hung. He was bangin
    Was William Hung, though?
    BOSS: I'm sorry, but I'll have to lay you and Jack off. SUE: Can you just jack off? I feel like shit today.

    "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony

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    ForeverSingle+Unloveable 72-Jay's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    I see nothing wrong with people downloading stuff off the net for free (that said I have no idea what they use these days - torrents or some other more modern "file sharing" app, because I avoid that stuff. its not worth it to me)

    Is there any real difference between:
    A) downloading a song off the net
    - or -
    B) connecting your stereo to the computer and recording that same song off a radio station?
    In the long run I see no difference, in both cases you end up with an "audio file" on the computer...

    I'll state that personally I'd never pay for ANY file (doesn't matter what it is)...if there'd a CD I want, it'll eventually show up at one of the thrift stores or the local Used CD store. Then I'll just buy it there (which I've done plenty of times) and have better quality than some downloaded MP3. If I want MP3's for portability I can make my own off that CD..

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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by 72-Jay View Post
    I'll state that personally I'd never pay for ANY file (doesn't matter what it is)...if there'd a CD I want, it'll eventually show up at one of the thrift stores or the local Used CD store. Then I'll just buy it there (which I've done plenty of times) and have better quality than some downloaded MP3. If I want MP3's for portability I can make my own off that CD..
    This mindset, also, makes a LOT more sense than it did when I was a young adult. Those who are younger than perhaps 40 (and, if your username has anything to do with birth date, you're RIGHT on that edge), and especially if they started using computers early in the game when Windows 3.1 or Windows 95 was still the newest software, "scarcity" of media is only a childhood memory. Going back a little bit farther, into the 1970's, it was not even readily possible to buy movies, and old music (especially rock and roll or country "oldies") could only be found easily on reissue vinyl and mostly only in larger cities. (Granted, I knew how to find this stuff much more readily, as it's WHAT I DO, but I'm definitely the exception. Just ask G-Lexington. He knows what I mean here.)

    It is STILL true that experiencing recorded media of any kind, can only be done comfortably ONE THING AT A TIME. (OK, I like music "mash-up" and collage too, but that is an extreme acquired taste, and it barely exists at all.) The amount of music that now exists is incredible. If there's something that 72-Jay or anybody else wants, chances are that it is only ONE item out of hundreds or perhaps thousands of items that provide entertainment, and in many cases the Jones can be satisfied by going to YouTube. While waiting for any of those seven things you really want to show up somewhere, you're going to find another 9 or 182 things that are fine for you, so just because your wanted early Nickelback CD hasn't shown up in your favorite shopping places yet, you don't walk away media-starved, you probably find something else you like. Unless one's tastes are very restricted, it's difficult not to find something that's satisfactory.

    And, therefore, one can still occupy listening time with moozik, even if it isn't the EXACT moozik that you were trying to get.

    72-Jay, what do you do, though, when you like a band and they're not actually releasing CD's? That's something much more common now, and that wasn't true 15 or 20 years ago. Nowadays even some of the tunes (Oh NOES!!! I didn't call them songs! Stop this before it spreads!!!) on Billboard's "Hot 100" singles charts are DOWNLOADS only, with no analogous "hard copy" available. Though, if the artist is successful enough to land on the Hot 100, they'll usually release an album eventually. But even if they put that song (ahhhhh...that's better) on the album, it may not be the mix that you want.

    I still remember sitting in front of the radio in 1966, hoping against hope that the soul FM station from Toledo, Ohio (the only source, at the time, to hear soul music on FM) would eventually play Wilson Pickett's "Land of 1,000 Dances" - and how ecstatic I was when they finally DID play it...and I snagged that thing onto a reel to reel tape!!!

    Strangely, though I was living in a county with a population near 100,000...there was NO full-service record store in the area which actually stocked records that were no longer on the Charts. That was a very unusual circumstance, indeed. Much later I found out that even places like Pampa, Texas and Spencer, West Virginia and Linton, Indiana and Red Bluff, California had full service record stores during that same time.
    Last edited by frankfrank; January 14th, 2013 at 06:48 PM.
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    "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony

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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    ^ 72-Jay's "version" of waiting for the used CD to show up cheap somewhere, of course, has its corollary back in the older era as well. "Used record shops" as such didn't REALLY exist 40 to 50 years ago, but one would wait and hope that the sought records (45RPM and/or album, depending on your preference at the time) would show up at the Salvation Army/Goodwill or similar thrift places, or perhaps in the 29-cent dump bin at Arlan's or Topp's, or in a cheap bin at Kresge's or something.

    More fortunate music fans may have actually known a source of records taken off jukeboxes and taken back to the vendor, and been able to buy the castoffs that way (usually 25 cents or less each). One didn't have to wait long at all for that wanted song to turn up and, unless one was adventurous, musical tastes were more or less limited to what was on the RADIO. And since jukeboxes generally played hits, it was GUARANTEED that your wanted radio hit would become available, cheap, if you were only willing to wait a month or two.

    And, though these castoff singles were rarely "mint" - we were satisfied because, often, we were only listening on some $30 record player or something, or perhaps one of those hi-fi consoles (which were actually FURNITURE outfitted usually with a record player and sometimes also a TV set). Most of us didn't know anything about fine quality cartridges and styli, and unless the record was blasted-all-to-shit, it generally sounded fine.
    Last edited by frankfrank; January 14th, 2013 at 07:00 PM.
    BOSS: I'm sorry, but I'll have to lay you and Jack off. SUE: Can you just jack off? I feel like shit today.

    "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires" - Susan B. Anthony

    THE WIZARD OF OZ: "Transported to a surreal landscape, a girl kills the first person she meets, then joins three strangers to kill again."

    SANDERS-WARREN in 2016! The people are ready for change.

  41. #91
    ForeverSingle+Unloveable 72-Jay's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by frankfrank
    This mindset, also, makes a LOT more sense than it did when I was a young adult. Those who are younger than perhaps 40 (and, if your username has anything to do with birth date, you're RIGHT on that edge), and especially if they started using computers early in the game when Windows 3.1 or Windows 95 was still the newest software, "scarcity" of media is only a childhood memory. Going back a little bit farther, into the 1970's, it was not even readily possible to buy movies, and old music (especially rock and roll or country "oldies") could only be found easily on reissue vinyl and mostly only in larger cities. (Granted, I knew how to find this stuff much more readily, as it's WHAT I DO, but I'm definitely the exception. Just ask G-Lexington. He knows what I mean here.)
    Yep you're correct on the username/age...
    I actually started using computers back before the Windows 3.1 days when it was all DOS
    Save for borrowing (& copying to cassette) a limited number of CD's (plus recording stuff off the radio) when I was highschool age, I didn't really start collecting/getting into music until sometime in my 20's... Then I would hit sales at the normal stores. Once used CD stores started showing up that became my place (allot of which have since closed). I eventually found out about thrift-stores & garage-sales

    I like music "mash-up" and collage too, but that is an extreme acquired taste, and it barely exists at all.
    LOL some of those 'mash-ups' (or 'booty-mixes' as I've seen it called) are fun

    While waiting for any of those seven things you really want to show up somewhere, you're going to find another 9 or 182 things that are fine for you, so just because your wanted early Nickelback CD hasn't shown up in your favorite shopping places yet, you don't walk away media-starved,
    Thats the problem with going to those places ... even if I don't find whatever the main thing(s) I mighta been looking for, I usually end up getting something else

    And, therefore, one can still occupy listening time with moozik, even if it isn't the EXACT moozik that you were trying to get.
    LOL on the term "moozik" because I use that too

    72-Jay, what do you do, though, when you like a band and they're not actually releasing CD's?
    If its a download then it'd have to be free (even if technically not legal) but I'd still avoid that file-sharing stuff, so finding/obtaining the files might be hard LOL
    Actually on this...Last year there was one song I wanted after hearing it on FM/radio, HD-2 station so they didn't just play mainstream stuff (sadly said station no longer exists) .. googled for the song/artist but couldn't find much info ... found a vid on YouTube, there they said it wasn't out on CD / only available as a (paid) download. I went for my one & only option - record it directly from radio...so now I have a MP3
    I still remember sitting in front of the radio in 1966, hoping against hope that the soul FM station from Toledo, Ohio (the only source, at the time, to hear soul music on FM) would eventually play Wilson Pickett's "Land of 1,000 Dances" - and how ecstatic I was when they finally DID play it...and I snagged that thing onto a reel to reel tape!!!
    I once saw some actual albums?(maybe just singles ? ) on reel to reel tape at Goodwill...was shocked to know such things even existed Wonder what those woulda cost someone when they were new? (probably shoulda grabbed that stuff & re-sold it on ebay LOL)

  42. #92
    JUB Addict Audio Tech's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    I STILL record on Reel to Reel, although purely as a hobby and on an actual studio machine. The rest of my music I stream off Pandora or hard drive.

    Back before digital, that's what you did. You sat in front of the radio with a cassette deck and waited for the DJ to play stuff you liked.
    I also still have a ton of cassettes.... ironically, some of those sound better than the crap offered today.

    One of my favorites was taping the Dr. Demento Show on the Mighty MET. (Anyone remember that?) Good times. Maybe oddly simple times.

  43. #93
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    I will admit I will steal when it is impossible to find it anywhere else, but I do think it is wrong.

    Look at it this way. You just spent $1000 out of your own pocket to produce some good quality porn. Everything came from your head, and it is ultimately your baby. Hell, you might even be more proud of it than your real child. Now it's time to put it out there for the world to behold and hopefully recoup your personal financial loss and launch a career ultimately. Your porn is well received and word of mouth starts to get around. Everyone knows it is conviently found on your website, for a reasonable price. Hell, it is even in the teaser video where to buy, but 90 out of 100 people download it illegally. You can't afford to make anything new, and the $1000 you put into it is lost forever. You also have angry actors who expected to be recouped handsomly from the sale of this video, but you can't give them the money they want.

  44. #94
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    With all that being said though http://theoatmeal.com/comics/game_of_thrones

  45. #95

    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apollo View Post
    I will admit I will steal when it is impossible to find it anywhere else, but I do think it is wrong.

    Look at it this way. You just spent $1000 out of your own pocket to produce some good quality porn. Everything came from your head, and it is ultimately your baby. Hell, you might even be more proud of it than your real child. Now it's time to put it out there for the world to behold and hopefully recoup your personal financial loss and launch a career ultimately. Your porn is well received and word of mouth starts to get around. Everyone knows it is conviently found on your website, for a reasonable price. Hell, it is even in the teaser video where to buy, but 90 out of 100 people download it illegally. You can't afford to make anything new, and the $1000 you put into it is lost forever. You also have angry actors who expected to be recouped handsomly from the sale of this video, but you can't give them the money they want.
    95% of the events in your premise is speculation/fabricated. I'm revoking the Vulcan in your avatar. You're not very logical.
    http://www.justusboys.com/forum/signaturepics/sigpic216959_1.gif

  46. #96
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    So since I feel my particular angle was ever really addressed:

    1) You bookmark a song you like on youtube to listen to when you like-- the person who put the youtube up is NOT the artist, or affiliated with the label or record company. This easily accounts for 99.99% of all songs posted on youtube. The hits aren't going to the artist.

    2) You open up wavepad and save the song and play it in winamp instead.

    What was the difference, ethically?

  47. #97

    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by RazorzEdge88 View Post
    This is great. I'm going to steal whatever I please from refuji, and if he thinks about calling the authorities, I'll just threaten to point them to this thread.
    Well... are you STEALING from Refuji... or COPYING from him ?
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  48. #98
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by RazorzEdge88 View Post
    This is great. I'm going to steal whatever I please from refuji, and if he thinks about calling the authorities, I'll just threaten to point them to this thread.
    Any analogy here would be bad but think of it this way.

    Refuji plays piano in his house, you hear it everyday, and he brings people over and charges them to hear it in person.

    You mention hearing him play from your bedroom and he accuses you of stealing.

  49. #99

    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    ... or demands you pay for it every time you listen to it.
    http://www.justusboys.com/forum/signaturepics/sigpic216959_1.gif

  50. #100

    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by RazorzEdge88 View Post
    Oh my fuck, guys. I wasn't even making any moral commentary on downloading.

    I'm just trying to blackmail somebody so I can get some free shit.
    LOL Well then in that case, you have to cut us in to keep us quiet too.
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