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  1. #51
    The old familiar sting blackbeltninja's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    My roommate bought Diablo 3 last summer. He still hasn't been able to install it.
    Exactly.

    And no, it doesn't make pirating the stuff right, of course it doesn't. But piracy still exists, even while those of us who tried the legal route are all puppets on a string, so how is this useful?

    -d-
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  2. #52
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by blackbeltninja View Post
    Exactly.

    And no, it doesn't make pirating the stuff right, of course it doesn't. But piracy still exists, even while those of us who tried the legal route are all puppets on a string, so how is this useful?

    -d-
    I think a lot of people unfamiliar with the videogame industry don't know how bad it's gotten--- so many developers basically operate under the assumption that you, the legitimate purchaser, are a thief or pirate about to go distribute the game, and put insane restrictions and installation limits on the DVD or whatever else. And all that EVER does is punish the legitimate user, it doesn't stop pirating (pirates have absolutely no problem getting around those lockouts and ripping the game code from a dvd and then just distributing it digitally) and so then when you run into any problems from patches, glitches, bugs, etc., almost the first advice you get is "try reinstalling." How are you supposed to do that, especially in this day and age of constant unwanted patch updates and such that may make your game screw up, if the DVD has like, a DRM limit of 3 installs on it or whatever?

    It just screws the end user. The legitimate purchaser.

  3. #53
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by blackbeltninja View Post
    This is a messy topic. Stealing is wrong, sure.

    But so is the annoying practice of releasing half an item and expecting people to go find the other half a la "if you buy this disc, you get an online code to use for rare material." And then you buy the disc, and after a while, the online material is removed and the links go dead. Or the famous "sorry, this is not available for viewers outside the US." I still paid extra for the disc with the bonus material, and now I can't use it? Fuck you, studio moguls - once bitten, twice shy. I've made the effort to get the stuff legally, and I'm not going to jump through more hoops to enjoy it. I wouldn't put up with this kind of service from a retailer or restaurant; why on earth do you think I'll put up with it from you?

    Games in particular - you buy the software, and then when it installs it tells you that it needs a massive patch downloaded before you can use it. We're not all on super-fast 40mbps lines with limitless data, actually; some of us would end up paying 2-3x the cost of the software in the first place to download the patch which makes it work. I understand this is an antipiracy measure, but hey - I didn't pirate the material; I bought it and I object to having to download 4gigs of additional fixing which will take days to come down (literally; our interwebs are not fast in the 3rd world) and cost a ton of extra money. I bought the fucking thing and I expect to be able to use it out of the box. When I buy a car, I don't have to wait for the wheels to arrive afterwards. It should be ready to go because THAT'S WHAT I PAID FOR.

    So fuck you too, gaming houses, you're screwing over the wrong people and so I'm not buying the games anymore. I am playing them though... yay for piracy!

    Short version: these industries need to rethink their strategies, and quit biting the hands that feed them. I got tired of being the sap who paid the money and was forced to put up with the bullshit, so now I just don't. Those of you who make a living out of it and who are now starving because I refuse to get screwed over... sorry. But hey - put some pressure on your employers for me and I'll happily revert to being a paying customer.

    -d-
    This.


    I'm willing to pay for anything I download. Sometimes, with their stupid sticky web of contents rights management and geocoding and distribution agreements, I find that no one is willing to take my money. In those circumstances, people are going to watch what they want to watch anyway.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  4. #54
    tombastep
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by gsdx View Post
    My roommate bought Diablo 3 last summer. He still hasn't been able to install it.
    Even if he could he wouldn't feel that he had his money's worth.

  5. #55
    might be a joke or not-->
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    In Spain when you buy an empty cd you have to pay a percentage because you may use it to record pirate stuff, when you buy a memory card you pay a percentage because you may use it to record pirate stuff, when you buy an external memory drive you pay a percentage because you may use it to record pirate stuff, when you are buying a computer you pay a percentage because you may use it to download and record pirate stuff... If I have paid the fine what stop me from commit the crime?

    I still pay for the original thing if I'm very interested in the article and from time to time I find music CDs that doesn't play in a computer so you can't copy it or a software that doesn't run correctly. Also some people inside entertainment industry have recognized the price of the products have become abusive and they have been silenced if they wanted to keep in the distribution circuits.

    ^Another kicking English grammar post

  6. #56
    The old familiar sting blackbeltninja's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Sometimes, with their stupid sticky web of contents rights management and geocoding and distribution agreements, I find that no one is willing to take my money.
    We have that issue all the time. After many many years, iTunes finally opened their doors to the .za consumers in the 1st week of December 2012. But we still can't download music from most legal US or European online music retailers.

    -d-
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    I hope you get this message.
    Comments welcome.

  7. #57
    Quality posting since 2K7 Nishin's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Anything I download, I wouldn't buy it anyway. Anything I want to own, I'll buy because I want the best quality available (no shitty mp3 or divx encoding).
    I do download, mainly tv shows and porn.
    Is it legal or illegal? As some other said above what's the difference between bookmarking a youtube and downloading the file?

    In my country too (^^), when you buy an electronic device (computer, usb key, raw CDs etc) you do pay a tax that goes to those companies that manage and redistribute royalties to copyrights owners... I'm not sure how effective this measure is or not...

    If these companies don't want their content online to be downloaded for free, they need to either not put them online or use technology that prevents copying, or find a business model that satisfy both the user and the creators/producers/distributors...
    Last edited by Nishin; January 11th, 2013 at 05:13 PM.

  8. #58
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Do you remember the outcry a few months ago, when it appeared the new Instagram settings allowed the company to use any of the pictures people posted for commercial purposes? As one person pointed out, "Oh I see - when it's YOUR work that somebody is going to use without permission or financial compensation, THEN it's a problem."

    Lex

  9. #59
    tombastep
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Yep.

    .......

  10. #60
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    I just watched Django.

    streaming it was and in Hi-def.




  11. #61
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    I used to see a problem with it. Not anymore though.

    I don't do it myself but I've always felt I've subtlety judged people who did.

    But I don't anymore. And here is why. I recently learned that record labels were faking views on YouTube. YouTube stripped many millions of views from many record labels because of their fraudulent views. What a shame.

    Also, the movie industry had a record year last year making something like 12 billion dollars.

    On top of that, some actors and musicians (mostly actors) are paid entirely too much. And does the price of a movie after it's available on iTunes or DVD really need to be 20 bucks? That is ridiculous.

    I don't buy DVDs. Okay, I've bought a few here and there. I still enjoy going to the movies and that's where my money giving ends pretty much. The movie had to have landed in my top three of the year for me to even consider buying its DVD.

    When it comes to music I looove going to my local record shop and I also love finding cheap MP3s (mostly from Amazon).

  12. #62
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    another question.

    Is it stealing when you already bought the album on vinyl, cassette, 8 track and cd?

    how much money do these people need?




  13. #63
    In Heat............ BENDERBOY's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by PreTTy PeTe View Post
    I just watched Django.

    streaming it was and in Hi-def.
    I'm waiting on it now.

    Got The Hobbit a few days ago.
    "You may only be one person to the world, but you may also be the world to one person"
    - anonymous quote.

  14. #64
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by BENDERBOY View Post
    I'm waiting on it now.

    Got The Hobbit a few days ago.
    waiting?

    streaming is the new downloading son




  15. #65
    The gay gargoyle
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by PreTTy PeTe View Post
    another question.

    Is it stealing when you already bought the album on vinyl, cassette, 8 track and cd?

    how much money do these people need?
    I don't think it is. But then again, I think most people who download it didn't buy it once before, and like you, I don't think they have any problem stealing it.

    Lex

  16. #66
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by G-Lexington View Post
    I don't think it is. But then again, I think most people who download it didn't buy it once before, and like you, I don't think they have any problem stealing it.

    Lex
    but then would I be charged even though I don't have copies of the originals since I moved so much in the last few years and gave away my collection.




  17. #67
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Yup to me that really begs the question:

    what is the difference between saving an .mp3 of a song on youtube vs. bookmarking a youtube of a song and pulling it up whenever you want to hear it?

    So far in this discussion-- doing the first is stealing and horribly wrong. Yet I see no difference between it and the 2nd.
    Quote Originally Posted by G-Lexington View Post
    I don't think it is. But then again, I think most people who download it didn't buy it once before, and like you, I don't think they have any problem stealing it.

    Lex
    Nobody addressed my quote but I wanted to repost it since your post made it relevant again imho.

  18. #68
    The gay gargoyle
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by PreTTy PeTe View Post
    but then would I be charged even though I don't have copies of the originals since I moved so much in the last few years and gave away my collection.
    I gave away my Bugs Bunny sweatshirt a couple years ago. That doesn't mean I get free ones for life.

    Lex

  19. #69
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by G-Lexington View Post
    I gave away my Bugs Bunny sweatshirt a couple years ago. That doesn't mean I get free ones for life.

    Lex
    but years ago I wasn't able to digitally copy my music.

    today I can.

    so can I buy a cd copy it and then sell it.




  20. #70
    JUB Addict Audio Tech's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by PreTTy PeTe View Post
    another question.

    how much money do these people need?
    You seriously need to ask this?

  21. #71
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by Audio Tech View Post
    You seriously need to ask this?
    yes I do.

    do you have an awswer?




  22. #72
    Slut Benjoe's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    I remember when music came on cassette tapes and movies came on VHS tapes. All the kids at school shared tapes and you made copies for your friends. Then along came CD's and DVD's and they told us that these were going to save us a fortune, they said people won't be able to pirate them so there will be no piracy costs passed on to the consumer and also as well as being much higher quality the physical cost of the cd's and dvd's will be much less because of the moving parts on cassette tapes and bulky VHS tapes to produce, so again we will be able to massively lower the cost of your music and movies. Brilliant we said and we all rushed out to buy this new technology.

    And whilst it was definetely much better quality than what we had been using it didn't end up being cheaper, infact they cost way way way more to buy. The reason was there was no piracy, the industry had complete control over us and could charge what they liked, they took advantage and for a while the consumers were shit on.

    Piracy is a good thing, it keeps the MPAA and the RIAA in check. If they could press a magic button and remove piracy completely we'd end up paying a fortune for our movies and music. Hollywood also made record profits this year and the vast majority of 'pirates' actually support the industry as well. I pay to go to the cinema from time to time and will buy the odd thing here and there, I just don't buy everything.

  23. #73
    tombastep
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by PreTTy PeTe View Post
    another question.

    Is it stealing when you already bought the album on vinyl, cassette, 8 track and cd?

    how much money do these people need?
    I don't think so.

    Video Game Emulators and Roms for the PC are perfectly legal as long as you actually own the games themselves as far as I know.

  24. #74
    Young at Heart ravenstar's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by csb999 View Post
    watching tv is illegally downloading . Do try to forget , have some respect for your legal system .
    Sorry but that has to be one of the most ridiculous comments I've ever read on here. Watching TV is not stealing. Television channels pay for a licence to broadcast the content from the production house who made it. Each time an episode of a TV show or movie is re-aired on television there is a fee payable to the production house which goes towards the royalties the performers and those who produced the show earn.

    I don't download movies or tv shows unless I buy them from iTunes. In Australia we really don't have much of a choice. We've got nothing like Netflix or hulu, they're all blocked by copyright.

    There is absolutely no grey area in this. If you download a song, a film or anything else illegally over the internet from places like Pirate Bay or whatever you are denying the producers of that material the right to earn a living on the products they create.

    When production companies lose revenue, they lose the ability to make new things, to hire people who are artists, or writers or performers.

    Frankly it takes nothing but a moment of thought to figure this out. You write an eBook, you slave over it, pay for it to be edited professionally, cover art designed professionally. You take a year of your life to create a product. And someone comes along and downloads it for free from some random site and you get nothing for what you've created. That example is something I know personally.

    Several years ago I wrote an ebook, worked my arse off on it for nearly a year to make it as professional as possible, only to find it on some random site listed as "free ebook of the month" after doing a google search of the title and there was nothing I could do about it.

    Pirating is called pirating for a reason. Look up the meaning of the word pirate.

  25. #75
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Nobody addressed my quote but I wanted to repost it since your post made it relevant again imho.
    Isn't the basic difference accessibility? If you bookmark a song, you cannot listen to it anywhere or whenever you want, and the copyright owners still have a certain amount of control regarding when and how it is broadcasted, not to mention that they receive a publication rights fee from YouTube. When you convert a video to mp3 format, you are engaging in an illegitimate act, because those who produced it/hold the rights to it do not derive any benefit from it.

    I think that, when it comes down to piracy, we must take two things into account: first, the culture of entitlement that has taken over our society. We have been taught that, as long as we can pay to access something, we are entitled to it and we should have it almost instantly. Since As a consequence, many people believe that paying for an internet connection gives them the right to take anything they want, because it is symbolically included in the price.

    Another serious problem that I find with piracy is that many people cannot find any incentives to abide by the law, when content producers are proving to be both inflexible (as many of you have said before me) and greedy. For instance, the expense of uploading and storing mp3 files for commercial distribution is below minimal, among other things because record companies eliminate variable overheads such as packaging, printing, physical distribution and the salaries of the workers who participate in those processes. Yet and still, the price of a single track is equivalent to its proportional value in CD format, even though the cost of making it available to the public is about a 10th of making it physically available to buyers. Many people are bound to be exploited by situations like these. The same could be applicable to films; while there must be a protocol of some form to guarantee proper distribution and the preservation of publication rights from studios, it is difficult for them to justify taking so long for films to be available for household consumption, when they could be far more accessible, at cheaper prices, through streaming services like Lovefilm and Netflix. Also, why should people pay extortionate prices for DVDs, when a year later they will be available for about 1/4 of the original retail price? Wouldn't it be far more profitable (not to mention, safer), to make content available at flat rates, which would guarantee accessibility to the largest possible population contingent? By lowering prices and maybe, just maybe, not expecting people to pay full price for utter rubbish, content producers could rely on the bona fide behaviour of a grateful public that sees a positive relationship between the quality of the products they get, and their allotted retail price.

    In this I do not include, though, independent and small companies, who do not have many outlets through which they can make their content available, and desperately need every single legitimate sale they can make.

    So, maybe it is an oversimplified conclusion, but I think that making a tacit contract between companies and the public, in which faster consumption at lower rates will only be made through legal channels, is the best option so far.

  26. #76
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Well, I know there are some youtubes that aren't accessible from say, an iphone or mobile device... but it seems like the pretty big majority are available. The only thing different between creating a file yourself or bookmarking a youtube is the added step of opening a browser. It's honestly in my view extremely hard to make the case that one damages an artist and the other doesn't.

  27. #77

    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Do artists get paid from Youtube views ?
    http://www.justusboys.com/forum/signaturepics/sigpic216959_1.gif

  28. #78
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    Re: Confess something that might surprise others or damage your reputation on JUB - 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by tombastep View Post
    I made that comment because you made an insult at me that you're "talking to air" even though I pretty much agreed with you that I was stealing and what I was saying wasn't a legitimate excuse.

    And now you're making assumptions that I want you to kiss my ass which is why I stated I pirated in the first place when I responded to refuj. I didn't want it to come off that I am superior to him and completely making him out to be a bad guy. Because I am not any better than him or less guilty of it.

    And you're the one "talking to air"?
    Grow up man , the lass made a very valid point you are the one who fell out his pram so full of shit oops indignation .
    Last edited by medic1; January 11th, 2013 at 08:27 PM.

  29. #79
    JUB Addict Anders123's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by borg69unimatrix View Post
    Do artists get paid from Youtube views ?
    I'm not sure, but with the accessibility of Youtube, they certainly get exposure. Searching for new music on Youtube is a hobby of mine, and I've seen many artists grow exponentially in terms of popularity after some of their tracks have been uploaded to a promoter's channel. There are always going to be people who will take for free what they can, but I've been able to purchase music and support many artists after stumbling across uploads on Youtube.

    Done right, music on Youtube is a good thing. A great thing, even.

  30. #80
    tombastep
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    Re: Confess something that might surprise others or damage your reputation on JUB - 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by borg69unimatrix View Post
    Do artists get paid from Youtube views ?
    Pretty sure.

    There are people who make money through making various types of youtube videos. Vevo seems to be the one the Artists tend to use.

    Quote Originally Posted by medic1 View Post
    Grow up man , the lass made a very valid point you are the one who fell out his pram so full of , oops indignation .
    I didn't do or say anything wrong to her to warrant the way she started to talk to me and other people in this thread. And I agreed with the point she made and pointed out my hypocrisy. So please don't try and stir up something that has clearly been finished.

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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by csb999 View Post
    watching tv is illegally downloading . Do try to forget , have some respect for your legal system .
    CRAP---never heard of paying for a tv licence...................

  32. #82
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    Re: Confess something that might surprise others or damage your reputation on JUB - 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by tombastep View Post
    Pretty sure.

    There are people who make money through making various types of youtube videos. Vevo seems to be the one the Artists tend to use.



    I didn't do or say anything wrong to her to warrant the way she started to talk to me and other people in this thread. And I agreed with the point she made and pointed out my hypocrisy. So please don't try and stir up something that has clearly been finished.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Throws himself around the room in a baby-tantrum , you would know if i was trying to stir things up .
    May i remind you that like you i am entitled to post it as i see it .

    Now be a good boy and do your homework....................

  33. #83
    tombastep
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Drop your superiority complex, it's not flattering.

  34. #84
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by tombastep View Post
    Drop your superiority complex, it's not flattering.
    OOH i smell paranoia , i certainly do not have a superiority complex , just some common-sense .

    Have you finished your 3 times table yet ?

  35. #85

    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by medic1 View Post
    OOH i smell paranoia , i certainly do not have a superiority complex , just some common-sense .

    Have you finished your 3 times table yet ?

    Why don’t you give it another go after you’ve sobered up.

    You’re making an ass of yourself.

  36. #86
    Lions&Tigers&Bears Oh My!
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    I have never downloaded any music. I have a massive vinyl and CD collection...I love the art on LPs and prefer the sound of vinyl....

    I even pay for my porn on AEBN...had an account for many many years.

    I also buy my own movies and TV episodes I get on HULU and I have a fairly large library on Amazon that I have paid for the individual episodes.

    I wouldn't download anything for free because it is stealing. I am very superstitious about karma and reaping what you sow so stealing is just not an option for me. If you need to know if it is wrong...ask yourself how you like it when someone steals something for you. There's your answer.
    Last edited by eastofeden; January 11th, 2013 at 09:20 PM.

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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kahaih View Post
    Why don’t you give it another go after you’ve sobered up.

    You’re making an ass of yourself.
    1 i can assure you that at 6am i have not had a drink .
    2 So if you can accuse me of being inebriated i can accuse you of being a dick-head..............

  38. #88
    Sex God Lord Booticus's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    The last time I went to the cinema to see the Hobbit I payed £9.50. That's just over $15. That was just a standard showing. No 3D, no XTREME screning, not even the 48 fps. Me and my friend joked that we should be able to pirate films to justify the cost of the ticket. I remember a time when it was £2.50 a ticket. *sigh*

    Personally piracy can be a good thing. It's taken control away from the company's so they actually have to consider their audience when they release a product instead of just how much money can they bleed from us. If they do a shit job people will just end up pirating and they don't make money anyway.

    Sure some people will pirate no matter what the situation, but they aren't a large number of the peoples. The majority will legally buy your product if your business practises are good enough. That means no screwing over with DRM, no online codes to stop trade ins and don't make them have to take out a small loan to afford it.

    Besides that I have a small problem with theft or stealing being used to describe piracy.
    Click image for larger version. 

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Views:	28 
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ID:	917835
    Last edited by Lord Booticus; January 12th, 2013 at 06:49 AM.

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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    So you're just taking a copy of the money the artist worked hard for during the creation of the product you're copying Lord Booticus? So the artist still gets paid their fee for their hard work, because you've only made a copy of it, or are you sending them the cheque directly?

    Call it what you like, it's still means you get something for free and the person who made it gets nothing for their hard work.

  40. #90
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by PreTTy PeTe View Post
    yes I do.

    do you have an awswer?
    Well, the RIAA once sued someone for more money than is in existence globally.... so apparently even THAT was not enough.
    So as far as I know, there is technically NO limit to the amount of money they'd like. One of the major problems in a Capitalistic society.... absolute and uninhibited GREED. Which, in the end, is unsustainable and will eventually collapse. The crash we just had is just a forewarning of what's to come.

    We, as a whole society, need a re-set. A re-evaluation of ourselves in general. In the end, you cannot EAT money.

    I am obviously a deviant as a human being. Not only do I like Guys, but on top of everything else, I take only what I need in life. Nothing more. I am not greedy at all. I KNOW this attitude will not serve me well when I get old, because I should be amassing as much money as possible at ANY cost, no matter who I fuck over to do it. Yet I don't.

  41. #91
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by Audio Tech View Post
    Well, the RIAA once sued someone for more money than is in existence globally.... so apparently even THAT was not enough.
    So as far as I know, there is technically NO limit to the amount of money they'd like. One of the major problems in a Capitalistic society.... absolute and uninhibited GREED. Which, in the end, is unsustainable and will eventually collapse. The crash we just had is just a forewarning of what's to come.

    We, as a whole society, need a re-set. A re-evaluation of ourselves in general. In the end, you cannot EAT money.

    I am obviously a deviant as a human being. Not only do I like Guys, but on top of everything else, I take only what I need in life. Nothing more. I am not greedy at all. I KNOW this attitude will not serve me well when I get old, because I should be amassing as much money as possible at ANY cost, no matter who I fuck over to do it. Yet I don't.
    what are you saying Hollywood and the record labels are greedy?

    what I think it is that they haven't kept up with the fast pace of the evolving Internet.

    then they look for scapegoats.




  42. #92
    美しいヨーロッパ Scealle's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    This is a rather sensitive topic. Being an artist myself I'd be really pissed of if I spent sleepless months on a project and have it illegally downloaded. However it is also pretty ridiculous when majority of my art freinds themselves does not support the industry and they themselves seems to have illegally downloaded games and music.

  43. #93
    JUB Addict umjreon88's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    I have the same belief as the OP too. I mean, ultimately, the actors got paid for their roles and the director still gets his international acclaim so I don't see the deal. Also, because I have not access to TV and my busy schedule makes for a difficult time to find a time to chill with friends and watch our favourite shows. So what I do is to stream them online illegally.

    Besides, I listen to the radio and stream songs on youtube so I save disc space on my hard drive!
    "... You think the only people who are people
    Are the people who look and think like you ..." - Colours of the Wind by Vanessa Williams

  44. #94
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Booticus View Post
    The last time I went to the cinema to see the Hobbit I payed £9.50. That's just over $15. That was just a standard showing. No 3D, no XTREME screning, not even the 48 fps. Me and my friend joked that we should be able to pirate films to justify the cost of the ticket. I remember a time when it was £2.50 a ticket. *sigh*

    Personally piracy can be a good thing. It's taken control away from the company's so they actually have to consider their audience when they release a product instead of just how much money can they bleed from us. If they do a shit job people will just end up pirating and they don't make money anyway.

    Sure some people will pirate no matter what the situation, but they aren't a large number of the peoples. The majority will legally buy your product if your business practises are good enough. That means no screwing over with DRM, no online codes to stop trade ins and don't make them have to take out a small loan to afford it.

    Besides that I have a small problem with theft or stealing being used to describe piracy.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	piracy-600x597.jpeg 
Views:	28 
Size:	56.1 KB 
ID:	917835
    That's another thing to consider. A lot of studies have shown that habitual pirates (people who pirate movies.. games.. music left and right) frequently are people who never would have been paying customers anyway. They either don't have the money, or would simply refuse to walk into a store and pay 20, 30, 50 bucks for something on a dvd. This is something that's been discussed quite a lot in the videogame industry as one example because "pirating" is the excuse for ever-increasing prices and particularly for very draconian and restrictive DRM which inconvenience the legitimate purchaser, when a lot of the research has shown that people who heavily pirate never would have legitimately purchased anyway, and many of them are in countries known for heavy pirating like Taiwan. So the degree to which actual money has failed to trade hands when it would have without pirating is in some cases exaggerated.

  45. #95

    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    If I do a job at work, I get paid for it based on what my work was worth. One job, one payment. I don't have the luxury of doing the job to whatever standards *I* see fit, and then charging whatever I want for the job, and then KEEP getting paid for that same one job for all eternity -- which is kind of how I see the digital media moguls being.
    http://www.justusboys.com/forum/signaturepics/sigpic216959_1.gif

  46. #96
    JUB Addict Audio Tech's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by PreTTy PeTe View Post
    what are you saying Hollywood and the record labels are greedy?

    what I think it is that they haven't kept up with the fast pace of the evolving Internet.

    then they look for scapegoats.
    That's true. Old business models no longer work, especially in our now so connected and "instant gratification" society.

    I, myself, had to adapt to new ways to do business or go bankrupt. Fortunately for me, I soon realized the limitations of the old ways and am doing much better in a global market. No scapegoats for me. Just my own damn fault if I want to be stubborn.

  47. #97
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by Audio Tech View Post
    That's true. Old business models no longer work, especially in our now so connected and "instant gratification" society.

    I, myself, had to adapt to new ways to do business or go bankrupt. Fortunately for me, I soon realized the limitations of the old ways and am doing much better in a global market. No scapegoats for me. Just my own damn fault if I want to be stubborn.
    I agree with that particularly in reference to distributors trying to be too anal and greedy about accessibility. If they've gone out of thier way to make their movie inaccessible on netflix, have slapped youtube for having any clips from it up, and literally the only way to go get it is to hunt it down in a Best Buy or something, I can't help but feel like "get with the times."

  48. #98
    Sex God Lord Booticus's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenstar View Post
    So you're just taking a copy of the money the artist worked hard for during the creation of the product you're copying Lord Booticus? So the artist still gets paid their fee for their hard work, because you've only made a copy of it, or are you sending them the cheque directly?

    Call it what you like, it's still means you get something for free and the person who made it gets nothing for their hard work.
    It's pretty much an extreme version of lending. Someone has bought the CD/DVD/Game and has then used the internet as a medium to lend it to anyone who can find it. The product isn't stolen and the pirater isn't stealing the item from the internet, so it isn't theft; it's breech of copyright.

    The reason why it's got the name of theft is because theft is something everyone can empathise with; breech of copyright is a very corporate sounding term that would conjure little sympathy for the company's.

    I just feel that if we are to beat a problem we first need to understand it and calling it something that it isn't can become a hinderance to getting the correct solution. Instead we get silly things.

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    That's another thing to consider. A lot of studies have shown that habitual pirates (people who pirate movies.. games.. music left and right) frequently are people who never would have been paying customers anyway. They either don't have the money, or would simply refuse to walk into a store and pay 20, 30, 50 bucks for something on a dvd. This is something that's been discussed quite a lot in the videogame industry as one example because "pirating" is the excuse for ever-increasing prices and particularly for very draconian and restrictive DRM which inconvenience the legitimate purchaser, when a lot of the research has shown that people who heavily pirate never would have legitimately purchased anyway, and many of them are in countries known for heavy pirating like Taiwan. So the degree to which actual money has failed to trade hands when it would have without pirating is in some cases exaggerated.
    Which comes to the point; downloads do not necessarily equate to sales.

  49. #99

    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    If I buy a movie, and then invite 15 people over to watch it and do this several times would I still be a pirate?

    Dozens of people got to watch it without paying for it.

    ... or if I go into a book store and just read the comics there without purchasing them, is that piracy?
    http://www.justusboys.com/forum/signaturepics/sigpic216959_1.gif

  50. #100
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Am I the only guy that doesn't see anything wrong with illegal downloading?

    Eh, it's all been said already, but to reiterate:

    1. Serial downloaders aren't potential customers. Most would never have bought the product if it weren't available for free.

    2. Downloading can be a gateway to purchases instead of redirecting people from them. Case in point - "illegal" downloading (and fansubs) has been essential to popularizing anime outside of Japan. Without it, Japanese animation would have never become as popular as it is today.

    3. Downloading is only harmful for unpopular products, and even then, it could help the product instead of ruin it.


    Personally, I pirate a lot of stuff, but I also buy a ton of things. When it comes to tv shows, I almost always download them first, but every time I've liked a show, I've bought it afterwards. I don't pirate movies because I watch them on the big screen and then buy the blu-ray. I don't pirate games because I play only on consoles. I pirate books because prior to buying a Kindle, I've spent more money on books than the US on its defense budget. And I pirate music because I'm a cheap fuck.

    No, actually, to be fair, I pirate both books and music nowadays, simply because I grew up in a pirate culture where digital was = to "download for free". I have not been able to move past that sentiment. I simply can't force myself to pay for digital stuff. I want all my movies/shows/games to be actual objects, not just files, and I even buy some of my favorite books just to have them on a shelf, even though if I ever wanted to read them again, I'd still do it on the illegally downloaded file on my Kindle...

    I guess I'm weird. But considering the amount of money I pay for my entertainment, I just can't make myself feel bad for pirating the rest.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

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