Moderate Republicans Begin Move Away From Party, Toward Democrats

[xbuzzerx]

^^
You're saying that Americans want to be taxed at a high rate, want the government to interfere more in their personal lives, and want the US Military reduced to a minimal state where national security is in jeopardy.

Who said America wants to be taxed at a high rate? If Social Security taxes are a "high tax rate" then it's one Americans largely support, yes. However you are distorting my words and you are also operating from the false premise that Obama represents high tax rates for most Americans. He doesn't. He specifically cut taxes to the great majority of Americans. And the people he DOES want to raise taxes on, the overwhelming majority of Americans support raising taxes on, because they've had a freaking gravy train for 12 years.

So I don't know what you're on about.

[Jack Springer]

^^
I think you find it hard to support your idea of Americans wanting higher taxes, less security, and more government intrusion.

[xbuzzerx]

^^
I think you find it hard to support your idea of Americans wanting higher taxes, less security, and more government intrusion.

I think you threw out a straw man and I'm not going to defend a position just because you 'say' it's the liberal one. However ill informed you may be.

[JB3]

So moderate Republicans agree with the Tea Party? lol.

Who said that? I didn't.

[xbuzzerx]

Who said that? I didn't.

They would never join the democratic party because, even if they are moderate, they still vehemently disagree with their tax policy.

The big difference is that instead of holding everyone hostage over those beliefs, they're willing to compromise.

Yes, you did. The great majority of Americans agree with the Democratic tax platform.

[JB3]

Lulz. The point was totally wrong. Sorry.

Most Americans agree with the democrats on both domestic and foreign matters, and definitely on the tax plans.

Actually, they don't. Americans are a diverse bunch, and have diverse opinions that don't conform to either party as a whole.

Back to my original point, though, moderate republicans would never join the democratic party on the tax issue alone. Period.

[JB3]

Yes, you did. The great majority of Americans agree with the Democratic tax platform.

I did not say anything about the tea partiers. I was responding to Giancarlo's post about moderate republicans.

Also, the polls disagree with you:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/158828/ba...g-deficit.aspx

Americans prefer a balanced approach of tax increases and spending cuts, which is how its always been.

[xbuzzerx]

I did not say anything about the tea partiers. I was responding to Giancarlo's post about moderate republicans.

The reason you gave for why moderate Republicans would never cross party lines was the same reason a Tea Partier wouldn't.

So you're either equating them or saying moderates don't exist.

[JB3]

The reason you gave for why moderate Republicans would never cross party lines was the same reason a Tea Partier wouldn't.

So you're either equating them or saying moderates don't exist.

No. I'm saying that moderate republicans still stridently believe in lower taxes, but they're more willing to compromise about them. They would not join the democratic party over taxes alone, but they WOULD compromise if necessary. The tea partiers would never compromise, and that's the difference between them.

Don't put words in my mouth and say I'm 'equating' something when I have done no such thing.

[xbuzzerx]

No. I'm saying that moderate republicans still stridently believe in lower taxes, but they're more willing to compromise about them. They would not join the democratic party over taxes alone, but they WOULD compromise if necessary. The tea partiers would never compromise, and that's the difference between them.

Don't put words in my mouth and say I'm 'equating' something when I have done no such thing.

See:

They would never join the democratic party because, even if they are moderate, they still vehemently disagree with their tax policy.

I put absolutely nothing in your mouth.

[JB3]

See:



I put absolutely nothing in your mouth.

Yes, you did.

I said absolutely nothing about tea partiers, at all. I did not equate moderates with them, and did not include them in my statement at all.

As I said, the moderate republicans would never join the democratic party because of the tax issue. They would compromise if a bill came before them that raised taxes though.

[xbuzzerx]

Yes, you did.

I said absolutely nothing about tea partiers, at all. I did not equate moderates with them, and did not include them in my statement at all.

As I said, the moderate republicans would never join the democratic party because of the tax issue. They would compromise if a bill came before them that raised taxes though.

Even if what you are saying is the case those people are irrational as the overwhelming majority of them are not benefitted whatsoever by Republican tax policies.

I don't think of irrational Republicans who are pretty determined to vote against their own interests as moderates.

[JB3]

Even if what you are saying is the case those people are irrational as the overwhelming majority of them are not benefitted whatsoever by Republican tax policies.

I don't think of irrational Republicans who are pretty determined to vote against their own interests as moderates.

I see now where your confusion lies. You're talking about every day people, I'm talking about lawmakers.

Moderate republican lawmakers wouldn't switch to the democratic party because the democratic party as a whole trends towards more progressive tax policies that those moderates would not support. The difference between them and the tea party folks, though, is that they will negotiate over those tax issues and be willing to support them under the right circumstances. (like when those taxes are also accompanied by significant spending cuts)

[xbuzzerx]

I see now where your confusion lies. You're talking about every day people, I'm talking about lawmakers.

Moderate republican lawmakers wouldn't switch to the democratic party because the democratic party as a whole trends towards more progressive tax policies that those moderates would not support. The difference between them and the tea party folks, though, is that they will negotiate over those tax issues and be willing to support them under the right circumstances. (like when those taxes are also accompanied by significant spending cuts)

Sorry for the confusion.

[JB3]

Sorry for the confusion.

No worries. Its easy to get lines crossed. I do agree with you about moderate citizens though. It wouldn't make sense for them to continue to support a tax policy that doesn't benefit them.

[GiancarloC]

Do you really believe that? A slim majority might agree with the spin that dem's project in the media -- but the regular American does not want higher taxes, more regulation and intrusion into their daily lives by the government, or less protection as a country at home or abroad.

Lulz. No wrong. A solid majority back the democrats right now. And this is all wrong... once again. The American people affirmed that in November. So try again.

[Jack Springer]

I think you threw out a straw man and I'm not going to defend a position just because you 'say' it's the liberal one. However ill informed you may be.

That's not a straw man -- I was putting in plain english some of your core beliefs.

[xbuzzerx]

That's not a straw man -- I was putting in plain english some of your core beliefs.

think you find it hard to support your idea of Americans wanting higher taxes, less security, and more government intrusion.

Americans want higher taxes on the upper 2~%. Correct. Any claim you want to make that 'liberals' want to raise taxes for 'ordinary Americans' will have to be supported by something other than the endless Republican insistence that "they do" and that Obama's tax policy aims to "raises Americans' taxes" for anyone other than that top group.

The Department of Homeland Security was a Republican creation and a massive increase in government scope, size and intrusiveness so this notion you have that Democrats have some big huge bureaucracy ready to implement to "intrude" into people's lives is entirely your own fiction. I don't have any clue what you're referring to, in other words.

So no, you didn't represent my position. You represented a Republican fiction of the progressive position. Which I feel absolutely no need whatsoever to go out and defend, as it's false and based on a lot of nonsense and talking points.

[Ninja108]

Republicians don't have a problem with small government when it comes to things like Homeland security,nor when it involves issues like gay marriage or abortion.

[Jack Springer]

Americans want higher taxes on the upper 2~%. Correct. Any claim you want to make that 'liberals' want to raise taxes for 'ordinary Americans' will have to be supported by something other than the endless Republican insistence that "they do" and that Obama's tax policy aims to "raises Americans' taxes" for anyone other than that top group.

The Department of Homeland Security was a Republican creation and a massive increase in government scope, size and intrusiveness so this notion you have that Democrats have some big huge bureaucracy ready to implement to "intrude" into people's lives is entirely your own fiction. I don't have any clue what you're referring to, in other words.

So no, you didn't represent my position. You represented a Republican fiction of the progressive position. Which I feel absolutely no need whatsoever to go out and defend, as it's false and based on a lot of nonsense and talking points.

Let me say it in another way -- liberals want to raise taxes on everyone else except themselves.

[Rolyo85]

Yeah, that goes into bullshit territory. It's not even stupid enough to bash...

[chrisrobin]

.
MODERATE REPUBLICANS

[Stardreamer]

They are not the only group that wants to see BOTH parties move back towards the center and bipartisanship.

No Labels: Stop Fighting. Start Fixing.

[GiancarloC]

The democrats are not towards center? They are. They are right of center and perhaps moving more towards the center. The republicans are in loonyville.

[xbuzzerx]

Let me say it in another way -- liberals want to raise taxes on everyone else except themselves.

Incorrect. Simple as that. You're using Bill O'Reilly's reasoning when he expressed mystification at how Hawaii-- so full of Asians who are "so hardworking and industrious", could be blue.

You espouse the same mindset that people are Republican because they work and people are Democrat because they want "free stuff."