Colonialism = Slavery

[IAMTHATIAM]

Colonialism = Slavery

Enough said.

All the horror and wrong is in both.

All beautiful, struggling human beings who rise up ARE EXTERMINATED.

Over time this has such a deep, profound effect.

All the wisdom and LOVE of the old ones is lost.

We are human. We are social beings, growing better through the shared wisdom, over time...and when the wisdom is EXTERMINATED.

WE SUFFER. WE ARE WOUNDED IN WAYS THIS STUPID WORLD DOES NOT KNOW!

ALL LOSE. There are no winners. There where no winners, only profiteres.

[OPHELIA_HARDIN]

Absolutely right! There are no whiners, only profiteroles!

[Serenx55]

Ok, good for you, you degraded a historical and sociological event into a piece of poetry that a 5th grader could have made.

Also tell me more about how you're complaining about the effects of colonialism while you type on a device that undoubtedly would not be yours had colonialism not occurred. Both in the fact that you possess the money for it.

You see, you can spend time whining and being annoying about how Colonialism was a bad thing, an atrocity. But when it comes down to it you're no better than anyone else, you gain from it, you wipe your ass with the advantages Colonialism provides you. So take your self pity and wallow in some dark corner.

[SamsDad]

colonialism = slavery

Dicto Simpliciter!

[palbert]

Love profiteroles!

(How is this Thread a Current Event?)

[rareboy]

Colonialism = Slavery

Enough said.

All the horror and wrong is in both.

All beautiful, struggling human beings who rise up ARE EXTERMINATED.

Over time this has such a deep, profound effect.

All the wisdom and LOVE of the old ones is lost.

We are human. We are social beings, growing better through the shared wisdom, over time...and when the wisdom is EXTERMINATED.

WE SUFFER. WE ARE WOUNDED IN WAYS THIS STUPID WORLD DOES NOT KNOW!

ALL LOSE. There are no winners. There where no winners, only profiteers.

(fixed it for you)

I can't imagine that anyone would argue this...but let's give it a little while, shall we?

[TX-Beau]

I suspect this is a hit and run trolling - saw another one of these in another forum.

[White Eagle]

I suspect this is a hit and run trolling - saw another one of these in another forum.

Down here that would be drive by trolling.

[Kulindahr]

From someone with the audacity to use what the Pentateuch records as the name God told Moses was His Own, I would expect something a little more profound and less cliche.

[IAMTHATIAM]

There is pausity of expression, education and intelligence here... in the replies.

Don't know you and never will.

That's the shittiest thing about the internet isn't it. So often you want to just grab some dumb ass (and HELL YEAH I'VE BEEN THAT GUY) shake him and say, NO! THINK!!! EDUCATE your ignorant self

[bankside]

There is pausity of expression, education and intelligence here... in the replies.

Don't know you and never will.

That's the shittiest thing about the internet isn't it. So often you want to just grab some dumb ass (and HELL YEAH I'VE BEEN THAT GUY) shake him and say, NO! THINK!!! EDUCATE your ignorant self

One might begin by confirming the proper spelling of "paucity."

[frankfrank]

PAUSITY: A surprising dearth or absence of an attribute, which causes people to stop and think and question why it is lacking.

[rareboy]

There is pausity (sic) of expression, education and intelligence here... in the replies.

Don't know you and never will.

That's the shittiest thing about the internet isn't it. So often you want to just grab some dumb ass (and HELL YEAH I'VE BEEN THAT GUY) shake him and say, NO! THINK!!! EDUCATE your ignorant self

*Gently shakes IAMTHATIAM*

[Benvolio]

It is unwise to generalize about colonialism, because while sometime has been brutal, in other instances it has been beneficial. No one is now arguing for a renewal of the age of colonialism. But the colonial power was often more humane and fair than the system it replaced. Africa, for instance was occupied by tribes who spent much of their time warring with each other, and since the end of colonialism, country after country has gone through a period of brutal ethnic warfare in which millions have been killed.
The Spanish were probably the most brutal of all the colonial powers, but even there they brought and end to the massive human sacrifices practiced before their arrival. India was not a democracy before colonialism, it was ruled by the Moguls and local monarchs, and while many would dream of an idealized time, it was characterized by actual slavery, the inhumane caste system, mandatory self cremation by wives.

[xbuzzerx]

It is unwise to generalize about colonialism, because while sometime has been brutal, in other instances it has been beneficial. No one is now arguing for a renewal of the age of colonialism. But the colonial power was often more humane and fair than the system it replaced. Africa, for instance was occupied by tribes who spent much of their time warring with each other, and since the end of colonialism, country after country has gone through a period of brutal ethnic warfare in which millions have been killed.
The Spanish were probably the most brutal of all the colonial powers, but even there they brought and end to the massive human sacrifices practiced before their arrival. India was not a democracy before colonialism, it was ruled by the Moguls and local monarchs, and while many would dream of an idealized time, it was characterized by actual slavery, the inhumane caste system, mandatory self cremation by wives.

And Rareboy called it. Here comes the euphemizing.

No, Benvolio.

I'm sure everyone breathed a sigh of relief when the Spanish ended Aztec sacrifices but brought influenza, smallpox, gonnorhea and many other diseases which were utterly lethal and ultimately resulted in countless casualties across both continents-- not just the Aztecs.

There's no way to say that's a good trade and any attempt is a whitewash.

[rareboy]

It is unwise to generalize about colonialism, because while sometime has been brutal, in other instances it has been beneficial. No one is now arguing for a renewal of the age of colonialism. But the colonial power was often more humane and fair than the system it replaced. Africa, for instance was occupied by tribes who spent much of their time warring with each other, and since the end of colonialism, country after country has gone through a period of brutal ethnic warfare in which millions have been killed.
The Spanish were probably the most brutal of all the colonial powers, but even there they brought and end to the massive human sacrifices practiced before their arrival. India was not a democracy before colonialism, it was ruled by the Moguls and local monarchs, and while many would dream of an idealized time, it was characterized by actual slavery, the inhumane caste system, mandatory self cremation by wives.

Are you fucking kidding me?

Like colonialism didn't rely on 'Actual slavery' and the equivalent of an inhumane caste system in New World?

That it didn't rely on the wholesale slaughter of the aboriginal inhabitants and bloody battle after bloody battle between the European 'settlers' and the north American indian tribes?

Are.

You.

Fucking.

Kidding.

Me?

Your grasp of history is about at the level of a grade six student or a Stormfront member.

[pat grimshaw]

^ Such a dramatic reaction! You belong on the stage alongside Bette Davis if you have to spend more time on invective rather than staying on topic.

[xbuzzerx]

^ Such a dramatic reaction! You belong on the stage alongside Bette Davis if you have to spend more time on invective rather than staying on topic.

His reaction is fundamentally the same that someone who has thoroughly studied the topic academically would have.

That anyone who acts as an apologist for colonialist history as "actually doing more good on the whole" is doing it for a reason other than logic.

Of course, I know where you likely fall on it. Little need to ask.

[pat grimshaw]

^
The Spanish brought smallpox etc but they brought a whole lot of other lifesaving and life-enhancing benefits.

We're democrats and we have to make decisions which benefit the majority and not the Catholics who wring their hands endlessly over the loss of an individual soul

[xbuzzerx]

^
The Spanish brought smallpox etc but they brought a whole lot of other lifesaving and life-enhancing benefits.

We're democrats and we have to make decisions which benefit the majority and not the Catholics who wring their hands endlessly over the loss of an individual soul

Side note on Catholics...

in the California mission system, Junipero Serra was privy (among many other things, including the rape of Indian women by Spanish soldiers for sport) to the fact that any native religious elder or medicine man who consistenly refused to recant would be taken out into the desert, put into the carcass of a partially gutted bull, and sewn inside to cook.

One of the reasons that the attempt to canonize him as a saint failed miserably once the Natives who had been enslaved in the mission system spoke up about it. Of course it was all news to Catholics.

So no, it doesn't come down to a divide between "rational people" and "hand wringing Christians", much as that's the usual simplicity with which you view complicated topics.

[rareboy]

Hey.

Grimshaw.



I'm sure that you are only sorry that the 'superior' white race didn't totally eradicate all those 'inferior' races.

Please explain all the lifesaving and life enhancing benefits that justified the eradication of the aboriginals.

You are parroting the same garbage as the US politician who declared that the whites had actually done the Africans a favour by making them slaves in order to colonize the New World...all with the complicity of the Christian churches.

And trust me, I'm on topic. And that wasn't invective.

For instance, I typed out a long response to tell you what I really thought of Benvolio's and now your perspective on the topic....and then just erased it. You'll just have to let your imagination run wild.

...and as Buzzer has just pointed out...you appear to be staggeringly ignorant of how the Spanish Catholic church acted in the New World. Figures though.

[Benvolio]

Are you fucking kidding me?

Like colonialism didn't rely on 'Actual slavery' and the equivalent of an inhumane caste system in New World?

That it didn't rely on the wholesale slaughter of the aboriginal inhabitants and bloody battle after bloody battle between the European 'settlers' and the north American indian tribes?

Are.

You.

Fucking.

Kidding.

Me?

Your grasp of history is about at the level of a grade six student or a Stormfront member.

It is unwise to generalize about colonialism. But, to a certainty , it cannot be equated with slavery. Sometimes it involved slavery, often it did not. Your hysterical screaming does not impress any one.

[pat grimshaw]

XXbuzzxx, I'm glad you discussed an individual case instead of the impossibly MASSIVE topic which the OP raised.

[pat grimshaw]

re #21
1. the usual assumptions,
2. misinformation; they weren't eradicated; the first governor was told to live peaceably alongside them
3. yes, I can well believe your invective was very long

[xbuzzerx]

It is unwise to generalize about colonialism. But, to a certainty , it cannot be equated with slavery. Sometimes it involved slavery, often it did not. Your hysterical screaming does not impress any one.

That's true, in slavery your slave is valuable property and you will, within reason, try to keep him alive so he can continue to work for you.

In many colonialist intrusions the overt goal was eradication.

[xbuzzerx]

XXbuzzxx, I'm glad you discussed an individual case instead of the impossibly MASSIVE topic which the OP raised.

I addressed your intellectually lazy breaking down of the entire topic as being between people who can be rational and Christians who torment themselves over the loss of a single soul.

And I'm sure as usual rather than saying anything of substance you will only continue to snipe at the thread with the vaguest, most obscure asides that tell us just enough to know where you stand but not enough to meaningfully discuss anything. That's your M.O.

[pat grimshaw]

… asides …

I know that I sometimes insert a pic or Youtube or a link in a Hot Topic thread to give an instance or some kind of context. But I'm sorry that I entered this thread with its absurdly wide generalisation for a title. So, as I said before, I'm glad you mentioned an instance in post 20 which might enable some sensible discussion.

[pat grimshaw]

^ Yes, I am sorry.

BTW: Have you heard about the Nigerians working hard to stop the colonizing notions of the Spanish Catholics last week?

[Benvolio]

That's true, in slavery your slave is valuable property and you will, within reason, try to keep him alive so he can continue to work for you.

In many colonialist intrusions the overt goal was eradication.

The goal was seldom eradication. My real objection is to the attempts to jump from some specifics to a general rule. Again, no one here is an advocate for colonialism or attempting to justify it. But colonialism does not equal slavery. Often it was better than what preceded or followed it. That is not the same as saying it was good.

[xbuzzerx]

The goal was seldom eradication. My real objection is to the attempts to jump from some specifics to a general rule. Again, no one here is an advocate for colonialism or attempting to justify it. But colonialism does not equal slavery. Often it was better than what preceded or followed it. That is not the same as saying it was good.

As far as I was concerned the OP was trolling in his initial intent... I think this thread was even originally posted in Coming Out & Relationships if I recall correctly. So I completely ignored it. My post wasn't about the OP's point but about your characterization of colonialism as having replaced as much bad as it committed, and being positive on the whole.

[opinterph]

I think this thread was even originally posted in Coming Out & Relationships if I recall correctly.

4th Jan 2013
Thread moved from 'Health & Wellbeing' to 'Current Events and Politics'

[frankfrank]

THIS thread was in Health and Wellbeing??!!!??!

Are you fucking kidding me?

Like colonialism didn't rely on 'Actual slavery' and the equivalent of an inhumane caste system in New World?

That it didn't rely on the wholesale slaughter of the aboriginal inhabitants and bloody battle after bloody battle between the European 'settlers' and the north American indian tribes?

colonialism has almost always been extraordinarily harmful to the inhabitants who were previously there prior to the colonization. This isn't limited to "somewhere else" such as Africa, either - it happened here. Deliberate use of smallpox blankets against the "Indians" in the Western territories of the USA certainly speaks to this.

Even colonial powers who we would tend NOT to think of as being barbaric, often were. Think, for example, of the brutality in the colonial days of Belgian Congo.

[palbert]

Aside from one post after the initial one you have failed to educate us. Cogent English would be preferred. However, as your user name assumes the god-head, religious gibberish is acceptable.

[Stardreamer]

THIS thread was in Health and Wellbeing??!!!??!


colonialism has almost always been extraordinarily harmful to the inhabitants who were previously there prior to the colonization. This isn't limited to "somewhere else" such as Africa, either - it happened here. Deliberate use of smallpox blankets against the "Indians" in the Western territories of the USA certainly speaks to this.

Even colonial powers who we would tend NOT to think of as being barbaric, often were. Think, for example, of the brutality in the colonial days of Belgian Congo.

There was NEVER any real evidence that small pox blankets were intentionally given to Amerind populations. There is one single case where a British officer joking bats around the idea as a means of breaking a siege by Amerind forces on an isolated fort. If he actually followed through on the idea, it didn't really work. The siege was broken by an army relief force and the Amerind forces involved ALREADY had small pox running through their ranks because they were conducting genocidal raids on the farming communities through out the area and had caught the disease from some of the farm families they had killed.

The only other recorded case was Amerinds stealing blankets from a river boat with small pox cases aboard DESPITE the US Army Officer in charge trying to stop them by offering them money and supplies instead.

[opinterph]

There was NEVER any real evidence that small pox blankets were intentionally given to Amerind populations.

My research indicates the same conclusion.

[xbuzzerx]

My research indicates the same conclusion.

It's true that the story about using used blankets from smallpox or tuberculosis clinics to fulfill the terms of treaty obligations, while widely suspected and reported, is difficult to prove in the hard historical record.

However, similar albeit less dramatic acts of genocidal intent were most assuredly carried out, such as the systematic and intentional destruction of buffalo in order to weaken the strength of plains tribes, which nearly resulted in the extinction of American bison until its relatively recent recovery. Not to mention bounties paid for the scalps of Indians-- priced by adult or child, policies which were so incredibly popular that bounty offices had to begin requiring that one or both ears be attached with the scalp so that they were not paying out double dip bounties to people who would take two scalpings from the same body.

[IAMTHATIAM]

Umm never mind... about the pausity of thought and expression, that is the hallmark of our age.

You think, stuggle to understand (and it's so hard in this world of MAKE_BELIEVE)

Thank you for trying

[JayHawk]

Life apparently is not fair.

FUCK!

[pat grimshaw]

Hey.

Grimshaw.…
I'm sure that you are only sorry that the 'superior' white race didn't totally eradicate all those 'inferior' races.…

How can you make up such histrionically-exaggerated assumptions? They weren't eradicated.

…Please explain all the lifesaving and life enhancing benefits that justified the eradication of the aboriginals…

Another hysterical exaggeration.The biggest benefit is cash paid every fortnight to do nothing. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-11-0...7-cdep/3650560

…You are parroting the same garbage as the US politician…

Who are you talking about? How can I parrot someone I don't know? I can tell you're frothing at the mouth here.

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegr...it_down_money/
http://aliceonline.com.au/2011/06/19...it-down-money/

[xbuzzerx]

How can you make up such histrionically-exaggerated assumptions? They weren't eradicated.

Read closely.

I'm sure that you are only sorry that the 'superior' white race didn't totally eradicate all those 'inferior' races.…

[JockBoy87]

Colonialists came with fire and axes, but also technology and human capital.

[rareboy]

Read closely.

Grimshaw is incapable of reading closely.

[rareboy]

Umm never mind... about the pausity of thought and expression, that is the hallmark of our age.

You think, stuggle to understand (and it's so hard in this world of MAKE_BELIEVE)

Thank you for trying

Oh for Fuck's sake.

It is paucity, not pausity.

It is cannabis induced babblerant and poor spelling that seem to be the hallmarks of our age.

[JockBoy87]

A paper a day keeps the spelling police away.

[rareboy]

Oh. And by the way Grimshaw. The 'humane' reservation system and welfare as reparation for simply taking all the land and resources from the aboriginals is, in fact, another form of slavery.

[Stardreamer]

A paper a day keeps the spelling police away.

Not since all the newspapers fired all the copy editors to save money thinking MS Word spell check was 'good enough'. (grins)

[xbuzzerx]

Another hysterical exaggeration.The biggest benefit is cash paid every fortnight to do nothing.

Every single cent earned by Australian society today was enabled by taking the land, permanently, away from people who used to live there. That's valueless and the continuing value Australian society enjoys by having that land will never go away unless someone else takes it from them.

What's given to indigenous people as guilt money for that is less than chump change compared to that. It's nothing. It's less than dust.

If the biggest thing you have to rage about is indigenous people getting some aid money in exchange for "here, sorry, we completely destroyed your people and way of life, we'll feel bad if we leave you in TOTAL poverty..", then think about how good you have it in life.

[palbert]

Grimshaw forgets the White Man's Burden.

[Benvolio]

Oh. And by the way Grimshaw. The 'humane' reservation system and welfare as reparation for simply taking all the land and resources from the aboriginals is, in fact, another form of slavery.

Nonsense. They have all the freedoms that the rest of us enjoy.

[xbuzzerx]

Nonsense. They have all the freedoms that the rest of us enjoy.

Mmhmm.

Try being the victim of a felony on a reservation and trying to demand prosecution or investigation. Get back to me.