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  1. #1
    JUB Addict CoolBlue71's Avatar
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    John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Reminding one of Dick Cheney's conduct in the U.S. Senate, and his likewise remark to Vermont U.S. Senator Patrick Leahy, House speaker John Boehner threw away decorum and repeated the obscenity to the majority leader of the upper chamber, Harry Reid, and one may question whether it's some sort of breakdown in Boehner's case. (Or just low or no class.)


    John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself'
    Outside the Oval Office


    By Dashiell Bennett, The Atlantic Wire
    Jan. 2, 2013 | http://news.yahoo.com/john-boehner-t...103332376.html

    According to "multiple sources," Boehner pointed his finger at Reid and without any other fanfare said, "Go f*** yourself." When Reid asked him what he was talking about, Boehner simply repeated his curse and moved on.

  2. #2

    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Then Boehner probably burst into tears.

  3. #3
    Do I dare to eat a peach?
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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    What you'd expect from facing losing his position and perks. Very mature.

  4. #4
    It ain't easy being King MisterMajestic's Avatar
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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Congresswoman "Mad" Maxine Waters talked about this on MSNBC this morning...I laughed at how she answered it..She said talk like that is Human and happens on the play ground, in the News Room, in the World of politics and simply everywhere....

    If Boner did say it I wouldnt judge him just like I didnt judge Dabiden for saying the F-Bomb in front of a Live-Mic during the Health Care signing....

  5. #5
    JockBoy87
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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    It's all in Federalist No. 49

    The Senate afterall was established to dampen the "passions" of the people, i.e. House of Representatives

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    JUB Addict chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    .
    This is not a very good time for false equivalency. Same thing happened on the Senate floor with Vice President Cheney to Sen. Patrick Leahy. Perhaps The Boner gets his inspiration from the Cheney book of etiquitte.

    This is what I would expect from the Speaker of the House. I wonder if petulance is a side-effect of the DTs?

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

  7. #7
    JUB Addict chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Quote Originally Posted by JockBoy87 View Post
    It's all in Federalist No. 49

    The Senate afterall was established to dampen the "passions" of the people, i.e. House of Representatives
    ..........
    I don't think anyone in the House is famaliar with the Federalist Papers. Too Marxist.

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

  8. #8
    JockBoy87
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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    ..........
    I don't think anyone in the House is famaliar with the Federalist Papers. Too Marxist.
    Well Publius seemed to intimate that those closest to the people were more likely to be "passionate," whether well read or not. That's their duty, their station, their nature.

  9. #9
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Actually it took McConnell to get a package out of the Senate. I personally think both Reid and Boehner are failed leaders if they cant bring the nations work to the table. Remember the Senate hasn't passed a budget in over 1300 days.

    Imagine if you had been trying to work something between the two house for months and got little to no cooperation from the other side.... I might tell the smirking guy across the aisle to go fuck himself as well. None of you have any idea what was said previously. Folks don't just randomly spout out "fuck yourself".

    Dont get me wrong I still am holding the Dem position on this thing. We need to protect entitlements and strengthen them not put the mismanagement bill on the backs of seniors. However, the acrimony cuts both ways. Hell I may even have a little more respect for the guy who admits it rather than the group that comes out from behind closed doors and smiles as if they were buddies. I dont like being lied to ya know?
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  10. #10

    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    The Senate hasn't passed a budget in over 3 years --- the biggest reason -- Harry Reid. He won't bring any of the House budgets up for a vote. Boehner did bring last night's bill up for a vote.

    The American people give Reid a pass mainly because the MSM doesn't remind them about how big problem he is in DC.

    Boehner was right to tell him to go fuck himself.

  11. #11
    JockBoy87
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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    The Senate hasn't passed a budget in over 3 years --- the biggest reason -- Harry Reid. He won't bring any of the House budgets up for a vote. Boehner did bring last night's bill up for a vote.

    The American people give Reid a pass mainly because the MSM doesn't remind them about how big problem he is in DC.

    Boehner was right to tell him to go fuck himself.
    He's been senator since before I was born. Maybe time for a fresh recruit.

  12. #12

    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    ^^

    A huge change has been needed for years. I did not vote for one incumbent in 2012 --- and that included republicans.

    Hopefully more will do that in 2014.

  13. #13
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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    ^^

    A huge change has been needed for years. I did not vote for one incumbent in 2012 --- and that included republicans.

    Hopefully more will do that in 2014.
    They aren't all bad. I see no reason to not vote for Zoe Lofgren...or Barbara Boxer. They represent my own POV and interests... rather nicely I might add.

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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    There were rumors going around there that said Boner was gonna step down, and another one that Cantor is working on getting the job.
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    ..........
    I don't think anyone in the House is famaliar with the Federalist Papers. Too Marxist.
    LOL

    Actually there's one Tea Party member I read about who can quote long sections of it.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  16. #16
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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Quote Originally Posted by White Eagle View Post
    There were rumors going around there that said Boner was gonna step down, and another one that Cantor is working on getting the job.
    Boner > Cantor ANY DAY OF THE WEEK
    All those wasted miles - all those aimless drives, through green aisles. Our careless life style: it was not so unwise.

  17. #17
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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Actually Harry Reid deserved that and more

    He's a mealy mouthed piece of shit that is the living breathing (barely) political example of the peter principle

    his "word is out" bullshit is all he has left in a tattered career of no legislative success to speak of

    residing over a senate that does less than the house

    compared to the senate the house is functional

    Boehner has made mistakes for sure - this isn't one of them

    Fuck Reid

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by White Eagle View Post
    There were rumors going around there that said Boner was gonna step down, and another one that Cantor is working on getting the job.
    i don't think ur that clever for this to be a joke

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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Actually, Harry DID deserve it!

    He'd just gotten done Royally berating John on the floor of the Senate.

    I'd likely said the same thing if I'd been in "The Boner's" shoes. (Eewwww!)

    Keep smilin'!!
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  19. #19
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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Quote Originally Posted by mrbeebs View Post
    Boner > Cantor ANY DAY OF THE WEEK
    I can't see how Cantor could become Speaker. The Tea Party has a minority of the Republicans, and I think the rest of the Republicans have had enough of being despised by the country for the nonsense of the Tea Party.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  20. #20
    JockBoy87
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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    ^^

    A huge change has been needed for years. I did not vote for one incumbent in 2012 --- and that included republicans.

    Hopefully more will do that in 2014.
    Senator Inouye was senator before my parents were born.

  21. #21
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    i don't think ur that clever for this to be a joke
    Wow angry much? Lol

    The scuttlebutt is that Boner is going to resign although his office denied the rumor.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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  22. #22
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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    I think both are equally shitty people and can't wish for both of them to leave office.

    However, I do fear that the GOP would throw Cantor up to Speaker which is sadly worse than Boehner. That would just hand Dems the House in 2014.

  23. #23
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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    Actually Harry Reid deserved that and more

    He's a mealy mouthed piece of shit that is the living breathing (barely) political example of the peter principle

    his "word is out" bullshit is all he has left in a tattered career of no legislative success to speak of

    residing over a senate that does less than the house

    compared to the senate the house is functional

    Boehner has made mistakes for sure - this isn't one of them

    Fuck Reid

    - - - Updated - - -



    i don't think ur that clever for this to be a joke
    What happen? Little Bonehead didn't get his way again? Of course he's mad... his party just got fucked yesterday when they got almost nothing they wanted. And spare us the attacks on Reid. Reid is a more honest person than anyone in the GOP right now.

  24. #24

    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    If this is true, this is very disappointing.

    John Boehner should conduct himself with more class than swearing.

    Foul language is very unprofessional no matter how frustrated or upset you are.
    I used to be like that, but not anymore. At least not on the first date. Third date, whole other story..."

  25. #25
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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Jesus Christ you fucking guys... you would think you don't follow politics and have no idea what kind of culture is occurring on capitol hill behind closed doors. sometimes the normal conduct spills out into the street.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  26. #26
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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    Actually Harry Reid deserved that and more

    He's a mealy mouthed piece of shit that is the living breathing (barely) political example of the peter principle

    his "word is out" bullshit is all he has left in a tattered career of no legislative success to speak of

    residing over a senate that does less than the house

    compared to the senate the house is functional

    Boehner has made mistakes for sure - this isn't one of them

    Fuck Reid

    - - - Updated - - -



    i don't think ur that clever for this to be a joke
    As if none of the usual 85 % suspects wouldn't root for a Democrat to dis a Republican leader in the same situation. Mitch Mc Connell on the GOP side in the Senate is the honorable one compared with thit pathetic twat Reid... he reached out to his friend Vice President Joe Biden on the Democratic side to get the ball rolling and get a stopgap measure to the House. Boehner has been the one sticking his neck out in the House...last year unsuccessfully trying to get a Grand compromise through and pushed by Obama to stick out his neck for more revenue increases without concrete spending reform...couldn't get it done but not for lack of trying as Bob Woodward points out in his book on the whole process.

    In truth,I would have voted for the bill as a confidence measure but it really isn't a good bill at all. Boehner did the right thing without any real better options and maybe Cantor will try to make a push for the speakership held by Boehner....who is certainly flawed but compared to his Democratic counterparts on the hill, his orange tanned skin is a lot more genuine than either Madame Pelosi or that hack Harry Reid. I believe Paul Ryan voted for the measure as well, which I was glad.

    But Reid and Pelosi are just reflections on the truly despicable lack of leadership of the President here.... Fuck the snarkosaurus in chief for his unhelpful turn in trying to calm the issue in recent days. I criticize Joe Biden a lot but he was as well among the grown ups here who was constructive along with Boehner and Mitch Mc Connell.
    unofficial official mini meet Friday- Saturday April 11-12, 2014

  27. #27
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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Quote Originally Posted by Sausy View Post
    As if none of the usual 85 % suspects wouldn't root for a Democrat to dis a Republican leader in the same situation.
    This is classic Republicans defend their bad behavior by assuming the other side is and thinks exactly the same as they do.

    No, I wouldn't.

  28. #28
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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Ooooooh. He cursed at Reid. *gasp
    Telling it like it is.

  29. #29
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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    This is classic Republicans defend their bad behavior by assuming the other side is and thinks exactly the same as they do.

    No, I wouldn't.
    I know. I wouldn't vote for someone I though was a puerile adolescent tool, and if he started doing that once elected, I wouldn't vote for him again.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    This surprises you? In the original days of the republic they would have beat the living snot out of each other, probably with canes. Dropping the F-bomb is mild compared to how it used to be.

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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    In the original days of the republic you could own black people, your point is what?
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  32. #32
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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    I think his point is that besides owning people and dueling, little else has changed in the discourse of the nation. Just the public smarmy faces smiles.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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  33. #33
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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    There have always been adolescent tools, but that is no reason to excuse them - and the vast majority of our statesmen, were not whiny children.

    Go Fuck Yourself, has never been the "discourse" of our nation.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

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    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Really, how many closed door sessions in the capitol have you attended?
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  35. #35
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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    How many have you? that you absolutely know this is common behavior?
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Only one but I have also spent a career dealing with Capitol hill staffers in justifying budgets. Along with the occasional Senator, Congressman and once a President. They act the same way when they are in Hawaii riding on fast boats or in Puerto Rico golfing. Leopards don't change their spots because they landed at Dulles.
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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    OK, so they all go around telling each other to go fuck yourself?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh come on, it was out of line, there was no reason for that other than spite and vitriol.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    I didnt say i condone it or that i do it... all too often. What I am saying is that it is par for the course. Boehner being a particularly emotional fellow probably forgot he was on TV.

    They are raunchy and dirty and sexist and that is who represents you whether you like it or not... Guess when smoking stopped in the house? The House Lobby still allowed smoking until 2007 when it was banned in most public places for decades. The point is they play by their own rules.... they always have and they always will. I would imagine hearing words of outrage over that behavior makes them chuckle.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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  39. #39
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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    This surprises you? In the original days of the republic they would have beat the living snot out of each other, probably with canes. Dropping the F-bomb is mild compared to how it used to be.
    Who was it that pulled a sidearm and shot into the ceiling during debate?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  40. #40
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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    OK, so they all go around telling each other to go fuck yourself?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh come on, it was out of line, there was no reason for that other than spite and vitriol.
    I'll grant the remark one thing: it's a lot more efficient in delivering the message than some polite British stiff-upper-lip rebuke would have been.

    You know, something like, "Hear now, old boy, be a good chap and climb up your posterior orifice".

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  41. #41
    Banned chance1's Avatar
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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    direct is good

    direct is understood

    go fuck yourself is hard to misunderstand

  42. #42
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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Of course even someone in a distinguished position of government leadership has a "right" to say it. But the fact that these incidents of smashing decorum seem to always be righties is interesting. And yes, if a high ranking Democrat said this to the President or the leader of the Republican Congress or Senate, I'd say he's an unprofessional embarassment for doing so.

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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    How many have you? that you absolutely know this is common behavior?
    It is well-documented that interactions in the Capitol are contentious, vulgar, and were far more extreme in the early days than they are now. Boehner telling Harry Reid to "go fuck yourself" is mild in comparison to what has been documented.

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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Of course even someone in a distinguished position of government leadership has a "right" to say it. But the fact that these incidents of smashing decorum seem to always be righties is interesting. And yes, if a high ranking Democrat said this to the President or the leader of the Republican Congress or Senate, I'd say he's an unprofessional embarassment for doing so.
    See that's the thing: There is no decorum. I'd rather them be open and honest with their distaste for each other instead of this smarmy, fake, dancing around the subject.

    You think if Obama went on TV and said that Boehner, Cantor, and the tea party republicans are a bunch of lying, un-trustworthy excuses for human beings that shouldn't hold any office anywhere, that people wouldn't nod their heads in agreement? People are tired of this PC crap, especially when it comes to a process that affects their well-being.

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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    See that's the thing: There is no decorum. I'd rather them be open and honest with their distaste for each other instead of this smarmy, fake, dancing around the subject.

    You think if Obama went on TV and said that Boehner, Cantor, and the tea party republicans are a bunch of lying, un-trustworthy excuses for human beings that shouldn't hold any office anywhere, that people wouldn't nod their heads in agreement? People are tired of this PC crap, especially when it comes to a process that affects their well-being.
    Basic professional respect = PC?

    PC's been reinvented and its line in the sand has shifted so many times by its critics that at this point it seems like "doing anything other than being a rank dickhead" = "being PC."

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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Basic professional respect = PC?

    PC's been reinvented and its line in the sand has shifted so many times by its critics that at this point it seems like "doing anything other than being a rank dickhead" = "being PC."
    No. Being told you can't offer your genuine, honest opinion of someone because it might hurt their feelings, is. Considering what he said about Boehner just prior to their meeting, Reid had a 'go fuck yourself' coming. I'd expect the same in kind if any of the republicans offered similar remarks on Pelosi or Reid.

    And besides, we all know there is no basic professional respect between any of them, so any continued faking of it would just be a lie.

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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    No. Being told you can't offer your genuine, honest opinion of someone because it might hurt their feelings, is.
    That's not political correctness. That's basic politeness.

  48. #48
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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    It is well-documented that interactions in the Capitol are contentious, vulgar, and were far more extreme in the early days than they are now. Boehner telling Harry Reid to "go fuck yourself" is mild in comparison to what has been documented.
    No kidding. US Senators and Congressmen engaged in duels -- a big more serious than mere strong language.

    Trivia: can anyone name the only US President who not only engaged in a duel, but was wounded while killing his opponent?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    No kidding. US Senators and Congressmen engaged in duels -- a big more serious than mere strong language.

    Trivia: can anyone name the only US President who not only engaged in a duel, but was wounded while killing his opponent?
    ANDREW JACKSON
    Perhaps we should bring back the duel.

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

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    Re: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrobin View Post
    ANDREW JACKSON
    Perhaps we should bring back the duel.
    I had a college roommate who ran for the House. One item on his platform was to bring back the duel -- for politicians. Despite the fact that he was up against an incumbent and he was an unknown, he got 40% of the vote.

    Makes one wonder.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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