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  1. #51
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Any of you gun people open carry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    The slippery slope argument is not irrational because it is based on experience. Compromising with Dems is like paying a blackmailer. It does not settle anything. He just comes back for more. It is irrational to keep paying. It is also why the tax issue is so hard. Any tax raise today is just a step for the Dems. Two years fron now they will be right back demanding more. That is exactly what Clinton did. And every environmental compromise is just a step to be followed by, another, then another.
    Holy Shit really? So like democrats and republicans will continue to pursue their agendas? Republicans to destroy the environment and the middle class to protect the rich and democrats to level the tax policy and protect the environment.... fucking weird. I cannot believe each party would stick to their core ideas....
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  2. #52
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    Re: Any of you gun people open carry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    At the moment the NRA has a higher approval rating than Obama.

    Not sure what that signifies -- maybe people approve of actually taking a stand?
    I'm not so sure about that. Obama's approval rating is currently hovering around the 50% mark or above, depending on the poll. (53.4% average)

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...oval-1044.html

    The Pew poll in my link above says that 36% of Americans think the NRA have too much power, while only 28% believe they have the right amount, and 19% think they have too little. Even if you combine the latter two they come to under 50%.

    Addressing "approval" more directly, Gallup have found the NRA currently has a 54% approval rating - pretty much the same as the President. But note that the same poll found 58% support tougher gun restrictions in the US.
    Last edited by andysayshi; December 30th, 2012 at 08:16 PM.

  3. #53
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    Re: Any of you gun people open carry?

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    I'm not so sure about that. Obama's approval rating is currently hovering around the 50% mark or above, depending on the poll. (53.4% average)

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...oval-1044.html

    The Pew poll in my link above says that 36% of Americans think the NRA have too much power, while only 28% believe they have the right amount, and 19% think they have too little. Even if you combine the latter two they come to under 50%.

    Addressing "approval" more directly, Gallup have found the NRA currently has a 54% approval rating - pretty much the same as the President. But note that the same poll found 58% support tougher gun restrictions in the US.
    If you examine the matter closely, you'll find that that "tougher restriction" attitude means making it harder for dangerous people to get guns, and limiting huge magazines. It doesn't extend at all to Feinstein's fantasy about "assault weapons".

    In there is a reason I hope limitations can be imposed as I've suggested, working within the Second Amendment concept of militia instead of attacking it head on, can be achieved: people seem to be more aware of some of the basics now.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  4. #54
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Any of you gun people open carry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    At the moment the NRA has a higher approval rating than Obama.

    Not sure what that signifies -- maybe people approve of actually taking a stand?
    With whom, its own members? lol.

  5. #55
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    Re: Any of you gun people open carry?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    With whom, its own members? lol.
    Oh my.........................

  6. #56
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    Re: Any of you gun people open carry?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    With whom, its own members? lol.
    The general public. It's from a Gallup poll.

    I'd be willing to bet that if a poll were taken of NRA members on approval of Obama and of Wayne Lapierre, it would be quite close. That man has to go.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  7. #57
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    Re: Any of you gun people open carry?

    Well, as I pointed out, Obama and the NRA have the basically the same 54% approval in polls. My guess is that Mr LaPierre would rate much lower.

    My earlier point was that simply asking "do you approve" is a fairly broad brush question. When you break down what the US population want (according to polls) it's tougher gun restrictions: much tougher background checks, limited magazine capacity, limiting of automatic weapons etc.

    But the NRA are against all these things. So a tacit "approval" of the NRA may indeed be 54%, but the reality behind that figure is the people of the US want much broader gun controls than the NRA is likely to support.

  8. #58
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    Re: Any of you gun people open carry?

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    Well, as I pointed out, Obama and the NRA have the basically the same 54% approval in polls. My guess is that Mr LaPierre would rate much lower.

    My earlier point was that simply asking "do you approve" is a fairly broad brush question. When you break down what the US population want (according to polls) it's tougher gun restrictions: much tougher background checks, limited magazine capacity, limiting of automatic weapons etc.

    But the NRA are against all these things. So a tacit "approval" of the NRA may indeed be 54%, but the reality behind that figure is the people of the US want much broader gun controls than the NRA is likely to support.
    The public doesn't support Feinstein's foolishness. And the only people who want "limiting of automatic weapons" are the ignorant, because those are already extremely limited, as I've explained several times.

    Dodging the LaPierre lobby is why I say we stay within the Second Amendment instead of attacking it, and go with Congress' authority to "organize and discipline" the militia. If it can be explained that requiring people to keep their large magazines at an approved gun club or shooting range falls within the concept of militia from the Second Amendment, a lot of LaPierre's steam is going to be chilled.

    In fact if someone could get me the full NRA mailing list and fund a newsletter, I'll take him on for the heart and soul of the NRA.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  9. #59

    Re: Any of you gun people open carry?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Holy Shit really? So like democrats and republicans will continue to pursue their agendas? Republicans to destroy the environment and the middle class to protect the rich and democrats to level the tax policy and protect the environment.... fucking weird. I cannot believe each party would stick to their core ideas....
    So, you agree with me. A compromise with a Democrat does not solve a problem. It it is just a step down the slippery slope. The blackmailer will be back soon for more, each time squealing that the Republicans won't compromise.

  10. #60
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Any of you gun people open carry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    So, you agree with me. A compromise with a Democrat does not solve a problem. It it is just a step down the slippery slope. The blackmailer will be back soon for more, each time squealing that the Republicans won't compromise.
    Care to actually name anything Republicans 'caved on' where Dems came back and demanded more? Let's see... healthcare? Nope. Don't Ask Don't Tell? Nope.

    The behavior you're describing best fits Republicans. Look at how many times "emergency funding" was re-passed for the Iraq War under Bush.

  11. #61
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    Re: Any of you gun people open carry?

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Care to actually name anything Republicans 'caved on' where Dems came back and demanded more? Let's see... healthcare? Nope. Don't Ask Don't Tell? Nope.

    The behavior you're describing best fits Republicans. Look at how many times "emergency funding" was re-passed for the Iraq War under Bush.
    No kidding.

    And it's pretty obvious that when you give in to Republicans on one tax cut, they'll be back for more.

    Except for the poor; they want to tax them more because "they aren't contributing".

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  12. #62

    Re: Any of you gun people open carry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    No kidding.

    And it's pretty obvious that when you give in to Republicans on one tax cut, they'll be back for more.

    Except for the poor; they want to tax them more because "they aren't contributing".
    My point was that gun controll laws in particular should be susceptible of a final comprmise of which guns to be allowed in private hands. But we all know that a compromise will not settle the question, because the Republicans will not work for more guns, but the Dems will immediately continue for more limits. So why bother compromising?

  13. #63
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Any of you gun people open carry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    So, you agree with me. A compromise with a Democrat does not solve a problem. It it is just a step down the slippery slope. The blackmailer will be back soon for more, each time squealing that the Republicans won't compromise.
    The problem is our country is a balance of both sides and it has worked for years. Tea Party idiots are now holding America hostage to their very warped ideas... that is not how it works and now because of their failed ability to govern we will get massive tax increases and defense cuts.... YAY!
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


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