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  1. #1
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    Government uses bullshit to bully business

    It's amazing how easy it is for government to use their power to persecute the law-abiding in an attempt to "discourage" crime. Here's a truly horrifying example, from L.A., where a businessman's restaurant was deemed the cause of criminal activity....

    http://reason.com/reasontv/2012/12/2...regulated-a-bu


    How do we stop this kind of crap? It needs to be done -- after all, this is what many Tea Party types have in mind when they say they want to take their country back... and when I see this crap, I have to agree we need to, because this bludgeoning of businessmen by the power of regulation is nothing but tyranny.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  2. #2
    Do I dare to eat a peach?
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    Re: Government uses bullshit to bully business

    The world and communities of 30 years ago are not the same today. If he's been there for 30 years and can't make public safety improvements, well, he should go somewhere else.

  3. #3
    auribus teneo lupum Stardreamer's Avatar
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    Re: Government uses bullshit to bully business

    Really, imposing costs on a single business like that should be considered a taking and the government should have to fork up the money to pay for it.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  4. #4
    Do I dare to eat a peach?
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    Re: Government uses bullshit to bully business

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    Really, imposing costs on a single business like that should be considered a taking and the government should have to fork up the money to pay for it.
    Absolutely no disagreement from this quarter.

  5. #5
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Government uses bullshit to bully business

    I don't see how a city can force a business to be fenced and have cameras?

    I agree if they want a fence and cameras then they should pay. However the article list 22 improvements that are zoning issues. Now if every other business in the area has complied and he is the hold out and the warnings have spanned years for him to make the capitol investment then I say tough shit to the other 20 measures.

    Not enough info to be properly outraged.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  6. #6
    auribus teneo lupum Stardreamer's Avatar
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    Re: Government uses bullshit to bully business

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    I don't see how a city can force a business to be fenced and have cameras?

    I agree if they want a fence and cameras then they should pay. However the article list 22 improvements that are zoning issues. Now if every other business in the area has complied and he is the hold out and the warnings have spanned years for him to make the capitol investment then I say tough shit to the other 20 measures.

    Not enough info to be properly outraged.
    Which is why I specifically said forced on a single business, if the requirements applies equally to all businesses in the market that would be different but then there is the issue of over regulation strangling the market as a whole.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  7. #7
    Do I dare to eat a peach?
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    Re: Government uses bullshit to bully business

    Do we know the incidence of crime, guns, or drugs that prompted the requirements? Seems we only have the bleeding heart side of the story.

  8. #8
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    Re: Government uses bullshit to bully business

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    The world and communities of 30 years ago are not the same today. If he's been there for 30 years and can't make public safety improvements, well, he should go somewhere else.
    "Public safety improvements"? They're blaming him for all the crime for blocks!

    Even if criminals happen to hang around his parking lot, he's not to blame. If the council thinks he should have a chain link fence around his business, let them pay for it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    Really, imposing costs on a single business like that should be considered a taking and the government should have to fork up the money to pay for it.
    They should have had to pay him for the removed tables.

    The arrogance is sickening.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  9. #9
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    Re: Government uses bullshit to bully business

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Not enough info to be properly outraged.
    They threatened to use zoning to shut him down. That alone is enough to be outraged -- especially since zoning is one of the biggest contributors to crime that we have.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  10. #10
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    Re: Government uses bullshit to bully business

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    Do we know the incidence of crime, guns, or drugs that prompted the requirements? Seems we only have the bleeding heart side of the story.
    He had zero incidence of crime, etc. The requirements were all about making him responsible for the activities of other people.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  11. #11
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Government uses bullshit to bully business

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    They threatened to use zoning to shut him down. That alone is enough to be outraged -- especially since zoning is one of the biggest contributors to crime that we have.
    Do you disagree with a restaurant that is shutdown because they provide tainted food that makes most people ill?
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  12. #12
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    Re: Government uses bullshit to bully business

    Mind you i have yet to agree or disagree. i just don't have enough info... if the owner is failing to do things the community and businesses as a whole have chosen to do then he is on the outside looking in... not the victim of some overbearing government. On the other hand the police and regulators both assume positions of authority that vastly overstep their bounds and should be checked.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  13. #13
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    Re: Government uses bullshit to bully business

    I have looked around and read a few articles. It appears that there are no other businesses in that neighborhood. They have all been shutdown since the riots in 1992 like he said in his testimony to the city council.

    Well once again big cities make a very strong case for not living there.

    that city council should be castrated but who is going to do it? The entire area is blighted. SO without business owners to care do you think the drug dealers will stand up against them?
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  14. #14

    Re: Government uses bullshit to bully business

    Kulindhar is right....... What is wrong with you people. It is the Police, governments responsibility to keep his community safe so he can run his business. Putting up a fence, removing his tables, and asking him to install security cameras with a direct feed to the police department, outrageous. Obviously the police didn't act on this information, arrest the drug dealers and prostitures. It's not like he picked the worst part of town to start a business, he has been there for 30 years.
    Why is crime always the fault of everyone but the criminal?
    If this man had hired a 24/7 private police force, the government would not like that either.
    Does the police/govenment think closing him down is going to stop the drug dealers from selling or the prostitutes form peddling their wares?
    This is a common sense issue, sadly common sense is a rare thing these days.

    Thanks for posting this Kulindahr.

  15. #15
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Government uses bullshit to bully business

    There are some customers who don't deserve places to go shopping because of the mayhem they leave in their wake. If this business thrives on attracting the type of client who create hassles for the neighbourhood and for the police, then any additional costs that the owner has to bear to comply with regulations specific to his preferred unruly customers, fall under the category of nice libertarian user-pay cost containment.

    He picks riff-raff for customers; he pays the extra bills. Not the taxpayers. And if he can't make his business run given those costs, or if he can't attract enough non-problematic customers, oh well. The world doesn't have to guarantee him a living on his own land when he brings shit into the neighbourhood.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  16. #16
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    Re: Government uses bullshit to bully business

    I don't have anything to add except I liked the alliteration in the Title of the thread.

  17. #17
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    Re: Government uses bullshit to bully business

    about the video, red tape gone too far:
    That black guy should be sacked !!!
    If he is white, he should be sacked too.

    Police should not wear nice suits to work anyway, he should wear police uniform.


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

  18. #18
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    Re: Government uses bullshit to bully business

    Quote Originally Posted by kevin23 View Post
    .
    Why is crime always the fault of everyone but the criminal?
    .
    Because as a society we have stopped blaming individuals/criminals for their own actions.
    It's alwas somebody else's fault.

  19. #19
    JUB Addict vulgar_newcomer's Avatar
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    Re: Government uses bullshit to bully business

    Much more detail was needed as to the type of crimes going on in front of or on his business property. If its a constant hot spot then correction is needed for the good of the many who unfortunately live in that impoverished area. Just because people are poor and there are no other burger joints in that small area doesn't mean law abiding citizens will use it. They will go elsewhere or just not patronize another burger joint. I live in such a community and without the nuisance abatement board things would be worse. As well there are other small business such as mini marts who do manage to add what is needed for a somewhat safer environment for the customer. There are many businesses in my area which my neighbors and I would never consider going in because of the atmosphere and chances of becoming a victim of a crime are extremely high. Wish they were closed. Constant gunfire, armed robbery, vicious assaults related to drugs and poverty, the only people who frequent those business are the criminals for the most part or those that make a bad mistake stopping unfamiliar with the area.

    By your logic I assume if a dangerous pertro-chemical plant such as where I work wants to discharge dangerous toxins into the air and ground water it should be allowed because government has no business telling my employer they must add costly safe guards for the protection of the surrounding area. Why should a business that caters to dangerous activity in a community with a long history of hazardous activity not have the similar regulation to benefit the surrounding community and try to make it a bit safer?

    If the cost is too high sadly then you don't have the location to support the sort of income required to operate. Comparing this to a tea bagger issue I don't follow.

  20. #20
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    Re: Government uses bullshit to bully business

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    I have looked around and read a few articles. It appears that there are no other businesses in that neighborhood. They have all been shutdown since the riots in 1992 like he said in his testimony to the city council.

    Well once again big cities make a very strong case for not living there.

    that city council should be castrated but who is going to do it? The entire area is blighted. SO without business owners to care do you think the drug dealers will stand up against them?
    I was just about to point that out. The council's attitude is absolutely insane: they have one, and only one, business operating there; one, and only one example of how to make a living by acting within the law... and they shut it down.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  21. #21
    Bammer's Papa
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    Re: Government uses bullshit to bully business

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    There are some customers who don't deserve places to go shopping because of the mayhem they leave in their wake. If this business thrives on attracting the type of client who create hassles for the neighbourhood and for the police, then any additional costs that the owner has to bear to comply with regulations specific to his preferred unruly customers, fall under the category of nice libertarian user-pay cost containment.

    He picks riff-raff for customers; he pays the extra bills. Not the taxpayers. And if he can't make his business run given those costs, or if he can't attract enough non-problematic customers, oh well. The world doesn't have to guarantee him a living on his own land when he brings shit into the neighbourhood.
    Wow -- what a job of turning things on their head. He didn't choose a crappy neighborhood, and he doesn't choose his customers.

    This is the sort of thing I'd expect from the long-lost justapixel.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  22. #22
    Bammer's Papa
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    Re: Government uses bullshit to bully business

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    I don't have anything to add except I liked the alliteration in the Title of the thread.
    Thanks!

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  23. #23
    Bammer's Papa
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    Re: Government uses bullshit to bully business

    Quote Originally Posted by vulgar_newcomer View Post
    Much more detail was needed as to the type of crimes going on in front of or on his business property. If its a constant hot spot then correction is needed for the good of the many who unfortunately live in that impoverished area. Just because people are poor and there are no other burger joints in that small area doesn't mean law abiding citizens will use it. They will go elsewhere or just not patronize another burger joint. I live in such a community and without the nuisance abatement board things would be worse. As well there are other small business such as mini marts who do manage to add what is needed for a somewhat safer environment for the customer. There are many businesses in my area which my neighbors and I would never consider going in because of the atmosphere and chances of becoming a victim of a crime are extremely high. Wish they were closed. Constant gunfire, armed robbery, vicious assaults related to drugs and poverty, the only people who frequent those business are the criminals for the most part or those that make a bad mistake stopping unfamiliar with the area.
    So because criminals make legal use of a legal business, that business should be punished? Wow.

    Quote Originally Posted by vulgar_newcomer View Post
    By your logic I assume if a dangerous pertro-chemical plant such as where I work wants to discharge dangerous toxins into the air and ground water it should be allowed because government has no business telling my employer they must add costly safe guards for the protection of the surrounding area. Why should a business that caters to dangerous activity in a community with a long history of hazardous activity not have the similar regulation to benefit the surrounding community and try to make it a bit safer?
    You equate law-abiding citizens engaged in honest business with deliberate violation of known laws?

    I'll point out that the "hazardous activity" in that area has only grown as businesses have disappeared. Shutting him down is the very thing that has brought your "hazardous activity" -- so the council and police dweeb are actually encouraging the "hazardous activity"!

    Quote Originally Posted by vulgar_newcomer View Post
    If the cost is too high sadly then you don't have the location to support the sort of income required to operate. Comparing this to a tea bagger issue I don't follow.
    The cost isn't too high -- the real cost, that is. There is no location that will provide enough income to afford the whims and fantasies of tyrants.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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