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  1. #101
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
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    Re: 4 firefighters shot, 2 dead, after responding to blaze

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Thinking back on all of the teachers I had, handing them guns and saying "okay there ya go, now no worries about school shootings" is equivalent to any of that. And if we were to mandate it as the official solution to school shootings it would be exactly the kind of government trampling over individual rights Kul would rail against in any other topic whatsoever that his logic was intact on.
    Okay -- you're not paying attention at all. My proposal tramples no rights at all.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  2. #102
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: 4 firefighters shot, 2 dead, after responding to blaze

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    So you dodge.

    If no teachers have ever been arrested for going on a rampage and physically assaulting their students, then we may reasonably assume that having a gun in possession isn't suddenly to make the situation different. The entire ant- case rests on the assumption that suddenly an awful lot of teachers are going to go wacko for no other fact than that they have started carrying a firearm. That's the same fallacious argument that's been made over and over by liberals every time a new "shall issue" concealed carry law is passed -- and it's never happened. Georgia didn't turn into a Hollywood "Wild West", nor did Alabama, nor did Montana, nor did Oregon, nor Virginia, so presuming that all of a sudden teachers are going to lose professional focus and become more irresponsible and get infected with some virus that makes them into ravaging beasts is beyond ludicrous.

    I come from the assumption that people are what they are, and will almost certainly remain so. That tells me that if any portion of the population can be trusted with a firearm in case of the need to defend the lives of the children in their care, it's teachers.
    This is an unimaginably false assumption. Recently, someone posted a graph showing a DRASTIC difference in suicide rate between gun restriction states and the ones without such. Having the means to do something changes the perception of a situation. Spur of the moment impulses can develop if given the proper tool, or die out if not. To deny that is to deny how human psychology works.

    Which you've been doing for weeks now, so I shouldn't be surprised...
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  3. #103
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: 4 firefighters shot, 2 dead, after responding to blaze

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Are you serious?

    The emperor Augustus agreed with you: he got rid of those who judged the value of their lives as greater than those of others. He did his job to protect his people.
    Bullshit. They are ALL his people. Criminals are not some other breed of humanity with fewer rights, just because they are doing something wrong. You go for easy solutions and punishments, rather than integration and lowering of the overall violence. To you, violence is constant. You don't think of how to lessen it, only how to fight it, thus adding more violence.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  4. #104
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: 4 firefighters shot, 2 dead, after responding to blaze

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Okay -- you're not paying attention at all. My proposal tramples no rights at all.
    Really? You have been dodging (yes, if somebody is doing it, that's you) the issue of what exactly IS your proposal, so how would we know?

    It appears that you propose we mandatory arm all teachers. How does that not trample rights?
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  5. #105
    mitchymo
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    Re: 4 firefighters shot, 2 dead, after responding to blaze

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Are you serious?

    The emperor Augustus agreed with you: he got rid of those who judged the value of their lives as greater than those of others. He did his job to protect his people.
    In those days, a gang, much like a tribe, could pose a serious threat to the authorities. It would be far more likely that he took the action he did because it served HIS interests rather than those of his people. Furthermore, he would have been a great big hypocrite, if it was 'for his people', since he'd obviously be judging those who have strayed off the straight and narrow as being NOT his people, despite the fact that ALL his subjects are his people.

    So...yes, i am serious. Augustus agreed with YOU, judging criminals as being exempt from human rights. However abhorrent criminals are, they are still human beings. They should be treated as such.

    It seems so much more convenient for some people to treat the aftermath of, rather than the problems creating, crime.

  6. #106
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    andysayshi's Avatar
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    Re: 4 firefighters shot, 2 dead, after responding to blaze

    ^ And, interestingly, this discussion loops back around to Kulindahr's thread Justice And (our) Humanity.

    How do we judge the righteous versus the criminal?

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