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Thread: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

      
   
  1. #201
    soooooo collllldddd rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Well, maybe if you put some effort into providing credible opinions and sources....and not always derailing everry thread....we might all make some headway in 2013.

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    Well, maybe if you put some effort into providing credible opinions and sources.
    This thread is a shining example. Jack and one or two others provide facts and the bedwetting liberals, all awash with their maudlin feelings, can't get past the dead bodies and see the larger picture. That is never going to change.

  3. #203
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Serious thing may well be being discussed in this forum, but they are seldom, if ever, discussed seriously. And that's the truth.
    It is so. But then again, there are also topics you don't participate in ^_^
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  4. #204
    Keeland
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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    And that's the truth.

  5. #205
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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    They wouldn't be there to scare them, they'd be there to kill them.

    Its a ridiculously unserious proposal. Most highschools already have a police officer in them. Many middle schools do as well. (ours was called a 'resource officer') One person is not enough to protect a large building, and more than one just multiplies the instances where something could go wrong.

    Take my high school, for example: 4,200 students. Four wings connected by a ring of locker bays and offices in a horse-shoe shape. 4 gyms. One large cafeteria. One full-sized auditorium. An arts wing with four huge rehearsal spaces. An athletics wing nearly sealed off from the rest of the building, with all of the auxiliary facilities you would expect. At least 14 stair-cases.

    There is not a chance in hell that a police officer in that school could do a damn thing if there was a shooting. Someone could, theoretically, go on a shooting rampage in the athletics wing, inflict mass casualties, and commit suicide before the officer even had a chance to get to the athletics wing. Even if a shooting occurred in the common areas or academic areas the likelihood of the officer being able to do anything before other students were shot would be slim to none. (Think bays and bays of 4 foot tall lockers that an attacker could easily hide between)

    As has been said before: NRA suggestion=idiotic and insulting.
    Interesting side note here is this is on a smaller scale the exact same point that Kuli has frequently made that the Police cannot protect you against violence. We are told the Police will protect us against violence and yet many of the same voices are now saying that Police or uniformed security can't even protect a single building.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  6. #206
    tombastep
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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    This thread is a shining example. Jack and one or two others provide facts and the bedwetting liberals, all awash with their maudlin feelings, can't get past the dead bodies and see the larger picture. That is never going to change.
    And how are you going to criticize a discussion not being "serious" when you can't help but insult liberals? And who said everyone in this thread that doesn't agree with you or Jack or whoever are liberals? You're throwing out insults and are making assumptions. You aren't fit for serious discussions on topics.

    And as someone who posted in opposition to Jack's opinion, I have posted facts to support my opinion. All I see from you and the people you're speaking for is that you run to insults when you can't back up what you're saying.

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    cave canem Stardreamer's Avatar
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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    I am not going to be very offensive, but I need to say that perhaps it's good to be able to spell properly before presuming to address complex social and political issues. Just a thought.

    Guarding your money is not more important than guarding your kids, but your money is more prone to a direct armed attack by criminals than the school your kids are in. And The way to guard money is entirely different - and way more direct - than the way we should be guarding our kids.
    And yet everyone of the reasons presented for why an armed guard would be ineffective still applies to the bank. Bank robbers are usually far saner than a spree killer and far more likely to consider the fact that there is a guard so why do we have armed bank guards? By the logic presented, the banks waste a lot of money keeping armed guards around.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  8. #208
    Keeland
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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    By the logic presented, the banks waste a lot of money keeping armed guards around.
    They're the goats tied to the trees.

    No bank wants to lose a customer.

  9. #209
    mitchymo
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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    We get it. That is, we get why there's such an imporant item in our basic rights. One of the best talk-show hosts on the air, Libertarian commentator Neal Boortz, announced his retirement last summer. He's off the air now, pending one final appearance in early January, but still posts things on his website every so often. The following statement from that site a couple of days ago sums it up:

    [I] Democrats absolutely hate the idea that a private individual American can own a gun for the purpose of self defense. They really hate the idea that one of the primary reasons our founding fathers included the 2nd Amendment in our Constitution was a recognition of the fact that a free people always should have the means to defend themselves from a despotic government. Democrats are the embodiment of a despotic government. It is perfectly natural or them to fear an armed citizenry.
    And with his retirement, perhaps a replacement who is capable of speaking truthfully on this issue.

    Mr Boortz isn't the first, and won't be the last libertarian, to speak absolute absurdity on any political topic.

    Lets take a look closely at the comment he made.

    Democrats absolutely hate the idea that a private individual American can own a gun for the purpose of self defense.
    This is a typical untruth, and one that serves to detract from the actual point. Its not that democrats hate the idea of a private individual owning a gun for self defence, its that they hate the idea of a private individual using one to launch an OFFENCE.

    They really hate the idea that one of the primary reasons our founding fathers included the 2nd Amendment in our Constitution was a recognition of the fact that a free people always should have the means to defend themselves from a despotic government.
    Again, failing to understand the issue, in favour of portraying democrats as the ones who don't 'get it'. Firstly, the idea of 2nd Amendment is not hated, because it is perfectly understood for the purpose it was intended. As Mr Boortz says, a despotic government. It says nothing about strangers with mental health issues. The development of the 2nd amendment over the years to allow the progression of gun proliferation, resulting in a culture that is riddled with cases of abuse of the amendment right, using laws like Castle doctrine and Stand Your Ground for people to kill and get away with it, whilst providing the means for the less calculating and caring to commit mass murder through sprees, is what is hated by most democrats. Even more so when the amendment is hardly relevent in a democratic 21st century nation.

    Democrats are the embodiment of a despotic government.
    The absurdity of this statement exemplifies succinctly the mentality of the narrator. Mr Boortz doesn't care about common sense, he only cares about his own rose-tinted ideological beliefs of how a government should work. From such a comment, we can perhaps assume that Mr Boortz thinks Colonel Gaddaffi and Saddam Hussein were 'all right chaps'.

    And lastly...

    It is perfectly natural for them to fear an armed citizenry.
    When the state of the nation is such that it is the most dangerous nation to live alongside your fellow citizens (in the western world), the fear is based on sensible rationale. People who aren't dumb, respond appropriately.

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    It is so. But then again, there are also topics you don't participate in ^_^
    Ignoring your dangling whatchamacallit, I will say, so what? I have little time for nonsense these days.

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by tombastep View Post
    And how are you going to criticize a discussion not being "serious" when you can't help but insult liberals? .
    It is a fact that liberals speak from feelings rather than logic.

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchymo View Post
    And with his retirement, perhaps a replacement who is capable of speaking truthfully on this issue.

    Mr Boortz isn't the first, and won't be the last libertarian, to speak absolute absurdity on any political topic.

    .
    Having said that, I can only predict your reaction to this: Herman Cain is taking over the Boortz time slot.

    And you're dead wrong, Neal Boortz never spoke absurdly about anything. He went after both democrats and republicans whenever he found it necessary to call them out.

  13. #213
    mitchymo
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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    And you're dead wrong, Neal Boortz never spoke absurdly about anything. He went after both democrats and republicans whenever he found it necessary to call them out.
    Mr Boortz hasn't called democrats out on this issue. He has manipulated their stance and argued aginst THAT. Its fallacy.

    Quite frankly, Libertarians calling out republicans too, is irrelevent to me. On the gun debate, libertarians ARE republicans.
    Furthermore, a moderate reupublican is much more agreeable when it comes to issues of common sense, than any libertarian, as they tend to occupy the far left, which is as out of touch as the far-right, and essentially leads to the same conclusion, meltdown of order.

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    For the record, we've had a ban on assault weapons before. By all accounts, it didn't make much of a difference.
    Why? Because the bill was one of those cosmetic "feel good" bills which put a Band-Aid on a perceived problem and everyone patted themselves on the back, said 'good job' and went home. Which is more or less what will happen this time.



    http://www.spectacle.org/0304/assault.html

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    soooooo collllldddd rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    It is a fact that liberals speak from feelings rather than logic.
    Well certainly they tend to speak based on a much broader and deeper and more nuanced body of knowledge than the doctrinaire knee jerk apologists for the NRA are doing.

    And you know what Rearden.

    This thread isn't going to be about Boortz and his history or histrionics.

    Your posts about what all liberals do or don't think and what they do or don't want is just as absurd as saying that all conservatives are idiots.

    If you have so little time for nonsense these days, then you really should stop writing it and probably speaking it out loud.

    Because you are right. When it comes to this issue, all you seem to be doing is wasting your life by spouting it.

  16. #216
    tombastep
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post

    It is a fact that liberals speak from feelings rather than logic.
    1) There is a difference between a fact and a generalization.

    2) You are clearly speaking from emotions before logic when you feel the need to insult liberals. Considering liberals have nothing to do with what has been said but you felt the need to brig it up.

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Recently reetired libertarian talk show host Neal Boortz mentioed this on his website yesterday. No links are given but there's probably enough information provided that the articles could be located. He sometimes exaggerated, but never lied. Of course, we we all realize that you're not interested in anything which would dare to conflict with your preconceived liberal notions.

    http://www.boortz.com/weblogs/nealz-...nd-sandy-hook/
    Boortz is a bit out in cloud cuckoo land.

    But the preponderance of evidence from all the states which have passed "shall issue" concealed carry laws is overwhelming: the presence of firearms in the hands of individuals the perpetrator can't identify ahead of time is a serious deterrent. Why? Because it could keep the perpetrator from achieving his goal.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    But the NRA...as an organization almost solely under the control of the gun manufacturers and the extremist right wing...has delivered an unbalanced response....not to say arrogant, aggressive and ill timed.
    The NRA gets under 3% of its income from gun manufacturers. They're hardly in control.

    And "the extremist right wing" considers the NRA liberal.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Repetitive I know ..... but Donny Deutsch on Morning Joe said this week that "gun control" is a stupid and off point term - it's "automatic gun control"

    I'm for automatic gun control - those weapons have no place in civilized society

    Schools deciding to arm their guard I sorta understand - I don't like it but like i've said, there can be an honest debate about it

    The problem in CE+P and in the mainstream media, is that it's become a "guns are bad" argument - period

    "studies show" ...........

    Ideology is supercedeing common sense

    and FYI, a NJ school district is arming their guard in the wake of Newtown - I understand why

    Mayor Hornick announced it this week

    “This isn’t a luxury item. This is a necessity, based on what we saw happen in Connecticut,” said Hornik, a Democrat who supports an assault-weapons ban and stricter gun control.
    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/j...S1oOuWbD62d51K

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    Please provide a reputable cite for this evidence.
    The federal government. It's why the air marshals are plainsclothes.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by tombastep View Post
    Edit: And suggesting that Teachers should be armed is kind of forcing them to be something that they shouldn't have to or obviously didn't want to be. Give Teachers guns it doesn't mean they'll be able to handle the situation. So now all these Teachers have to be trained to be Police Officers. You're going to be forcing people who don't want guns or someone who doesn't like them to have to handle one.

    How is that even fair or even right? When the same people arguing for this would argue that it is wrong for someone to take away their guns. You're against people taking away ANY gun, but you're ok with giving more guns to people that don't want anything to do with them.
    Point: from the recent experience, armed teachers would obviously be able to handle the situation -- they made a good effort unarmed; armed, they'd actually be people to contend with.

    I don't understand why any teacher wouldn't want to be armed, given that it means protecting the kids.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  22. #222
    tombastep
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post

    Point: from the recent experience, armed teachers would obviously be able to handle the situation -- they made a good effort unarmed; armed, they'd actually be people to contend with.

    I don't understand why any teacher wouldn't want to be armed, given that it means protecting the kids.
    Not every Teacher would be able to handle this situation they're not Police Officers. They are Teachers.

    And their reasons why they don't want to own a gun is irrelevant. It is hypocritical to force gun ownership on someone who doesn't want a gun when at the same time yell that it your right to own one. Which means it is a right to not own one.

    You are forcing your ideals on other people.

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    Can you provide a cite or the mathematics to justify this statement?
    Simple. Even if the government bought the guns, that's far cheaper than paying bureaucrats.

    And remember that Canada abandoned one regulation scheme because it was extremely expensive with little to show for the money.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    But what this whole scenario demonstrates is what I've pointed out about the paucity of balanced thinking. You and LaPierre and the other fringe right wingers on this just immediately jump to the automatic response of more violence being the solution to violence.
    No, what LaPierre is propsing -- in idiotic fashion -- is less violence. We've been through this before: gunman enters school, shoots as he pleases, kills two dozen, versus gunman enters school, starts to shoot, armed teacher shoots him... far fewer dead.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Kuli, I have to say I am not satisfied with your source. You said "provable evidence", and I didn't see any. As the one making the claim, it is your duty to provide the proof, as you've been the first to point out in many other topics.

    Jack - watching porn makes me want to have sex. Playing videogames makes me want to kill zombies and aliens.
    I can't find any referent for that in this thread, so I don't know what you mean.

    I've been looking for a study I remember that showed that playing violent video games was negatively correlated with actual violence by the players, BTW -- can't find it. Some days google just doesn't like me.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    It won't happen. And the NRA is off the hook by saying 'Well, we had a solution, but government wouldn't pay for it."
    That's exactly what LaPierre wants. He doesn't care about solutions, he cares about politics... but more, about fund-raising. After all, he can't pull in his $950k+ salary if the funds don't flow.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by tombastep View Post
    Second Amendment is outdated. The founding fathers weren't talking about assault rifles, semi-automatics, etc.
    Those are precisely the things the FFs meant: the common military weaponry of the day.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    I'd feel better with an armed guard

    They'd have a better chance

    Think Die Hard
    Die Hard is a good example: The uniformed guys are obvious targets; McCain in ordinary clothes isn't.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Those are precisely the things the FFs meant: the common military weaponry of the day.
    It's amazing when you look at our founding documents. They were designed to handle whatever came along in the future.

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    It's amazing when you look at our founding documents. They were designed to handle whatever came along in the future.
    They sure as fuck beat Sharia Law don't you think?

    As opposed to the the "Evangelical" so called "Christian" view of how things should be here in America.

    Dotcha think?
    Last edited by CTF; December 23rd, 2012 at 02:35 PM.
    Never regret anything, because in that moment it's exactly what you wanted.

  31. #231
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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Those are precisely the things the FFs meant: the common military weaponry of the day.
    Yes, their day.

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by centexfarmer View Post
    They sure as fuck beat Sharia Law don't you think?

    As opposed to the the "Evangelical" so called "Christian" view of how things should be here in America.

    Dotcha think?
    No shit Those idiots (fundamentalists from every religion) have a lot to answer for.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tombastep View Post
    Yes, their day.


    No, not 'their' day. Any day.

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    It is the hallmark of a failed state when parents require an armed presence in the classroom to play the odds that their children won't get mowed down by military assault weapons because they are so readily available in a country obsessed with being militiamen.

    You don't get that apparently.
    I'd call it a "hallmark of a failed state" when citizens have to play Russian roulette with their lives because the government won't treat them like citizens but like cattle. A citizen is a man who may bear arms when he chooses -- others are sheep.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    I'd call it a "hallmark of a failed state" when citizens have to play Russian roulette with their lives because the government won't treat them like citizens but like cattle. A citizen is a man who may bear arms when he chooses -- others are sheep.
    Yet, you run to the constitution when it comes to your right to bear arms. Ironic.

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    Actually, the guards aren't there for the money. They are actually theoretically there to protect people, as a visible deterrent, not the money. And surprise. Most bank branches don't have armed guards. That is just in the movies, I think you'll find.
    When I was in Miami, every bank had armed guards.

    They even threatened once to form a union.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    yeah , so anyone got an answer for my question about the assault rifle ?
    was it the weapon he actually used or was it found in the car as i heard ?
    what is the connection to the school ? heard reports that his mother had worked there but then was told this was false !

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    Interesting side note here is this is on a smaller scale the exact same point that Kuli has frequently made that the Police cannot protect you against violence. We are told the Police will protect us against violence and yet many of the same voices are now saying that Police or uniformed security can't even protect a single building.
    Good observation.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    And yet everyone of the reasons presented for why an armed guard would be ineffective still applies to the bank. Bank robbers are usually far saner than a spree killer and far more likely to consider the fact that there is a guard so why do we have armed bank guards? By the logic presented, the banks waste a lot of money keeping armed guards around.
    The key is in the plural: guards. My friend the bank guard in Miami said they had three guards, and they moved around. The guidelines said no more than one should be visible from the front entrance at any one time. The elements of (1) knowing there were armed guards and (2) not knowing where they would be made for a deterrent.

    When someone is as single-minded and focused on a spectacle such as a suicidal mass slaughter, that uncertainty itself is a deterrent: they want to think about killing, not about being killed.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Keeland View Post
    They're the goats tied to the trees.

    No bank wants to lose a customer.
    Heh. That's an interesting view. But to an extent it's right; any "invader" will be paying attention to the ones who can shoot back.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Heh. That's an interesting view. But to an extent it's right; any "invader" will be paying attention to the ones who can shoot back.
    And no one ever expects them to be armed.
    Never regret anything, because in that moment it's exactly what you wanted.

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    It is a fact that liberals speak from feelings rather than logic.
    From the evidence here, that's not so. I'm no great fan of liberals, but among those here more than one is far better at logic and evidence and reason than you.
    Oh -- and at providing evidence.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    Repetitive I know ..... but Donny Deutsch on Morning Joe said this week that "gun control" is a stupid and off point term - it's "automatic gun control"

    I'm for automatic gun control - those weapons have no place in civilized society
    Once more: no one can get an automatic weapon in this country without first finding one of the few with a federal license who is willing to part with his, and then obtaining a federal license for himself. There are a set number of these licenses; no more than that can be issued.

    I find that silly, because such weapons should be allowed -- though only in a place where the weapon is kept under lock and key except when the owner is there to shoot with it at that facility. I suppose that's a form of gun control, but it's one in keeping with the Second Amendment: it allows citizens to keep the arms pertinent to a militia, while restricting those not deemed appropriate for common use.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Point: from the recent experience, armed teachers would obviously be able to handle the situation -- they made a good effort unarmed; armed, they'd actually be people to contend with.

    I don't understand why any teacher wouldn't want to be armed, given that it means protecting the kids.
    Because from the teacher's point of view, a gun in the classroom is the security failure that motivates them to "make a good effort" in the first place.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte.

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Good observation.
    So you agree with someone who posted to say he agrees with you...
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte.

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by tombastep View Post
    You are forcing your ideals on other people.
    Feinstein and Schumer and their ilk would force their ideals on everyone. At least my ideals are those of individual liberty.

    Besides which, I'm not trying to force anything on anyone. But in today's world, any school without armed teachers is gambling the lives of their students.
    Last edited by Kulindahr; December 23rd, 2012 at 03:52 PM.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    so , once again , and the reason i got onto this thread , any one got an answer to the questions i asked previously ?
    connection to the school , and the use of the assault rifle ?

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    It's amazing when you look at our founding documents. They were designed to handle whatever came along in the future.
    Not if read in simplistic fashion.

    For example, the Second cannot be read apart from Article I, Section 8.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    From the evidence here, that's not so. I'm no great fan of liberals, but among those here more than one is far better at logic and evidence and reason than you.
    Oh -- and at providing evidence.
    Snipe away, if you amuses you.

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    The NRA gets under 3% of its income from gun manufacturers. They're hardly in control.

    And "the extremist right wing" considers the NRA liberal.
    Can you substantiate this claim? All the references I've found place this figure much higher - typically 15% or more.

    In 2010, the NRA had an operating budget of around $200 million. Slightly over half this money is NRA membership fees. They accepted corporate donations from weapon manufacturers and related industries, companies they call "Corporate Partners", of $38.9 million. They include 22 different gun makers, including famous names like Smith & Wesson, Beretta USA, SIGARMS, and Sturm, Ruger & Co. that also manufacture so-called assault weapons. They received another $32 million from individual donations, but many of these "individuals" are executives and employees of the weapons industry also.

    The NRA gets still more revenue from its "round up" program, where gun and ammo buyers round up sales to the nearest dollar, donating those extra cents to the NRA; and another donation system called "add-a-buck", where gun dealers tack an extra dollar onto each sale for the NRA.

    And none of this even touches on the new way the NRA gathers and allocates resources via Super PACs during elections, which remains undisclosed. It is unclear how much money was donated by the weapons industry to NRA-controlled Super PACs during the last election cycle.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...ak-for/266373/

    http://www.vpc.org/studies/bloodmoney.pdf

    Or is it to keep them frightened? In his tell-all memoir, Ricochet: Confessions of a Gun Lobbyist, former NRA operative and consultant Richard Feldman argued that the group had degenerated into "a cynical, mercenary political cult," that was "obsessed with wielding power while relentlessly squeezing contributions from its members." Manipulating the fears of impassioned gun owners helped keep their wallets open, and helped to fund the rich pay packages for executives like LaPierre, who pocketed nearly $1 million in 2010.

    In an interview, Feldman, who now runs the Independent Firearms Owners Association, said that over the last 20 years, the NRA had indeed "taken on the mantle for protecting the gun industry," such as when it successfully lobbied for a 2005 law that protected firearms manufacturers from civil suits by gun makers or their families. But he said the group's staunchly anti-gun control stances also reflected the sincere priorities of its most impassioned members, including both big and small donors.


    "The people who are most concerned about gun rights are the most doctrinaire and ideological in their approach to the issue," Feldman said. "As an organization you can have four million members, but that doesn't mean all members are equal. The members you have to worry about are the ones who contribute."
    Last edited by andysayshi; December 23rd, 2012 at 04:08 PM.

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by centexfarmer View Post
    They sure as fuck beat Sharia Law don't you think?

    As opposed to the the "Evangelical" so called "Christian" view of how things should be here in America.

    Dotcha think?
    God save us from His bonehead followers.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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