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  1. #201
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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    It won't happen. And the NRA is off the hook by saying 'Well, we had a solution, but government wouldn't pay for it."
    That's exactly what LaPierre wants. He doesn't care about solutions, he cares about politics... but more, about fund-raising. After all, he can't pull in his $950k+ salary if the funds don't flow.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  2. #202
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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by tombastep View Post
    Second Amendment is outdated. The founding fathers weren't talking about assault rifles, semi-automatics, etc.
    Those are precisely the things the FFs meant: the common military weaponry of the day.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  3. #203
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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    I'd feel better with an armed guard

    They'd have a better chance

    Think Die Hard
    Die Hard is a good example: The uniformed guys are obvious targets; McCain in ordinary clothes isn't.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Those are precisely the things the FFs meant: the common military weaponry of the day.
    It's amazing when you look at our founding documents. They were designed to handle whatever came along in the future.

  5. #205
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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    It's amazing when you look at our founding documents. They were designed to handle whatever came along in the future.
    They sure as fuck beat Sharia Law don't you think?

    As opposed to the the "Evangelical" so called "Christian" view of how things should be here in America.

    Dotcha think?
    Last edited by CTF; December 23rd, 2012 at 02:35 PM.
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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by centexfarmer View Post
    They sure as fuck beat Sharia Law don't you think?

    As opposed to the the "Evangelical" so called "Christian" view of how things should be here in America.

    Dotcha think?
    No shit Those idiots (fundamentalists from every religion) have a lot to answer for.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tombastep View Post
    Yes, their day.


    No, not 'their' day. Any day.

  7. #207
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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    It is the hallmark of a failed state when parents require an armed presence in the classroom to play the odds that their children won't get mowed down by military assault weapons because they are so readily available in a country obsessed with being militiamen.

    You don't get that apparently.
    I'd call it a "hallmark of a failed state" when citizens have to play Russian roulette with their lives because the government won't treat them like citizens but like cattle. A citizen is a man who may bear arms when he chooses -- others are sheep.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  8. #208
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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    Actually, the guards aren't there for the money. They are actually theoretically there to protect people, as a visible deterrent, not the money. And surprise. Most bank branches don't have armed guards. That is just in the movies, I think you'll find.
    When I was in Miami, every bank had armed guards.

    They even threatened once to form a union.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    yeah , so anyone got an answer for my question about the assault rifle ?
    was it the weapon he actually used or was it found in the car as i heard ?
    what is the connection to the school ? heard reports that his mother had worked there but then was told this was false !

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    Interesting side note here is this is on a smaller scale the exact same point that Kuli has frequently made that the Police cannot protect you against violence. We are told the Police will protect us against violence and yet many of the same voices are now saying that Police or uniformed security can't even protect a single building.
    Good observation.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  11. #211
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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    And yet everyone of the reasons presented for why an armed guard would be ineffective still applies to the bank. Bank robbers are usually far saner than a spree killer and far more likely to consider the fact that there is a guard so why do we have armed bank guards? By the logic presented, the banks waste a lot of money keeping armed guards around.
    The key is in the plural: guards. My friend the bank guard in Miami said they had three guards, and they moved around. The guidelines said no more than one should be visible from the front entrance at any one time. The elements of (1) knowing there were armed guards and (2) not knowing where they would be made for a deterrent.

    When someone is as single-minded and focused on a spectacle such as a suicidal mass slaughter, that uncertainty itself is a deterrent: they want to think about killing, not about being killed.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  12. #212
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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Keeland View Post
    They're the goats tied to the trees.

    No bank wants to lose a customer.
    Heh. That's an interesting view. But to an extent it's right; any "invader" will be paying attention to the ones who can shoot back.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  13. #213
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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Heh. That's an interesting view. But to an extent it's right; any "invader" will be paying attention to the ones who can shoot back.
    And no one ever expects them to be armed.
    Never regret anything, because in that moment it's exactly what you wanted.

  14. #214
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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    It is a fact that liberals speak from feelings rather than logic.
    From the evidence here, that's not so. I'm no great fan of liberals, but among those here more than one is far better at logic and evidence and reason than you.
    Oh -- and at providing evidence.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  15. #215
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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    Repetitive I know ..... but Donny Deutsch on Morning Joe said this week that "gun control" is a stupid and off point term - it's "automatic gun control"

    I'm for automatic gun control - those weapons have no place in civilized society
    Once more: no one can get an automatic weapon in this country without first finding one of the few with a federal license who is willing to part with his, and then obtaining a federal license for himself. There are a set number of these licenses; no more than that can be issued.

    I find that silly, because such weapons should be allowed -- though only in a place where the weapon is kept under lock and key except when the owner is there to shoot with it at that facility. I suppose that's a form of gun control, but it's one in keeping with the Second Amendment: it allows citizens to keep the arms pertinent to a militia, while restricting those not deemed appropriate for common use.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  16. #216
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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Point: from the recent experience, armed teachers would obviously be able to handle the situation -- they made a good effort unarmed; armed, they'd actually be people to contend with.

    I don't understand why any teacher wouldn't want to be armed, given that it means protecting the kids.
    Because from the teacher's point of view, a gun in the classroom is the security failure that motivates them to "make a good effort" in the first place.

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Good observation.
    So you agree with someone who posted to say he agrees with you...

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by tombastep View Post
    You are forcing your ideals on other people.
    Feinstein and Schumer and their ilk would force their ideals on everyone. At least my ideals are those of individual liberty.

    Besides which, I'm not trying to force anything on anyone. But in today's world, any school without armed teachers is gambling the lives of their students.
    Last edited by Kulindahr; December 23rd, 2012 at 03:52 PM.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    so , once again , and the reason i got onto this thread , any one got an answer to the questions i asked previously ?
    connection to the school , and the use of the assault rifle ?

  20. #220
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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    It's amazing when you look at our founding documents. They were designed to handle whatever came along in the future.
    Not if read in simplistic fashion.

    For example, the Second cannot be read apart from Article I, Section 8.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    From the evidence here, that's not so. I'm no great fan of liberals, but among those here more than one is far better at logic and evidence and reason than you.
    Oh -- and at providing evidence.
    Snipe away, if you amuses you.

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    The NRA gets under 3% of its income from gun manufacturers. They're hardly in control.

    And "the extremist right wing" considers the NRA liberal.
    Can you substantiate this claim? All the references I've found place this figure much higher - typically 15% or more.

    In 2010, the NRA had an operating budget of around $200 million. Slightly over half this money is NRA membership fees. They accepted corporate donations from weapon manufacturers and related industries, companies they call "Corporate Partners", of $38.9 million. They include 22 different gun makers, including famous names like Smith & Wesson, Beretta USA, SIGARMS, and Sturm, Ruger & Co. that also manufacture so-called assault weapons. They received another $32 million from individual donations, but many of these "individuals" are executives and employees of the weapons industry also.

    The NRA gets still more revenue from its "round up" program, where gun and ammo buyers round up sales to the nearest dollar, donating those extra cents to the NRA; and another donation system called "add-a-buck", where gun dealers tack an extra dollar onto each sale for the NRA.

    And none of this even touches on the new way the NRA gathers and allocates resources via Super PACs during elections, which remains undisclosed. It is unclear how much money was donated by the weapons industry to NRA-controlled Super PACs during the last election cycle.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...ak-for/266373/

    http://www.vpc.org/studies/bloodmoney.pdf

    Or is it to keep them frightened? In his tell-all memoir, Ricochet: Confessions of a Gun Lobbyist, former NRA operative and consultant Richard Feldman argued that the group had degenerated into "a cynical, mercenary political cult," that was "obsessed with wielding power while relentlessly squeezing contributions from its members." Manipulating the fears of impassioned gun owners helped keep their wallets open, and helped to fund the rich pay packages for executives like LaPierre, who pocketed nearly $1 million in 2010.

    In an interview, Feldman, who now runs the Independent Firearms Owners Association, said that over the last 20 years, the NRA had indeed "taken on the mantle for protecting the gun industry," such as when it successfully lobbied for a 2005 law that protected firearms manufacturers from civil suits by gun makers or their families. But he said the group's staunchly anti-gun control stances also reflected the sincere priorities of its most impassioned members, including both big and small donors.


    "The people who are most concerned about gun rights are the most doctrinaire and ideological in their approach to the issue," Feldman said. "As an organization you can have four million members, but that doesn't mean all members are equal. The members you have to worry about are the ones who contribute."
    Last edited by andysayshi; December 23rd, 2012 at 04:08 PM.

  23. #223
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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by centexfarmer View Post
    They sure as fuck beat Sharia Law don't you think?

    As opposed to the the "Evangelical" so called "Christian" view of how things should be here in America.

    Dotcha think?
    God save us from His bonehead followers.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Simple. Even if the government bought the guns, that's far cheaper than paying bureaucrats.

    And remember that Canada abandoned one regulation scheme because it was extremely expensive with little to show for the money.
    I'll re-pose this question, which I asked Henry Reardon earlier in the thread but he failed to respond.

    Are teachers to undertake mandatory weapons training before their appointment as elementary school teachers ? How often will their weapon competency be tested, and who will fund the training and testing procedures? Will their weapons be provided by the Government? Given conservative criticism of "large government", would you support this expenditure of many billions of dollars per year?

    Do you not consider that a substantial bureaucracy would need to be in place to oversee the arming, training and insuring of tens of thousands of armed school teachers?
    Last edited by andysayshi; December 23rd, 2012 at 04:14 PM.

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by tombastep View Post
    Yes, their day.
    No, the day -- whatever day it was.

    And if you understand the ultimate reason for the Amendment, the right it's really protecting, you'll see why.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    I'll re-pose this question, which I asked Henry Reardon earlier in the thread but he failed to respond.

    Are teachers to undertake mandatory weapons training before their appointment as elementary school teachers ? How often will their weapon competency be tested, and who will fund the training and testing procedures? Will their weapons be provided by the Government? Given conservative criticism of "large government", would you support this expenditure of many billions of dollars per year?

    Do you not consider that a substantial bureaucracy would need to be in place to oversee the arming, training and insuring of tens of thousands of armed school teachers?
    Typical liberal solution to any problem. Propose a huge and ultimately unweildy bureaucracy to handle it.
    You'd be surprised to know how many trained gun owners there are in this country, and there are places to go for training.
    No need to make things too complicated.

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    maybe its my accent ! no one got an answer for me ?
    by the way , if i was in any way responsible for other peoples children , i would be armed if allowed.

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Typical liberal solution to any problem. Propose a huge and ultimately unweildy bureaucracy to handle it.
    You'd be surprised to know how many trained gun owners there are in this country, and there are places to go for training.
    No need to make things too complicated.
    In the US, about 75% of public school teachers are women. In elementary schools, the figure is closer to 90%.

    Only about 8% of gun owners in the US are women, according to recent estimates.

    We can extrapolate from this information that the number of school teachers who currently own and are trained to use a weapon is probably in the range of 8% or less. (I would speculate that it is much less.)

    Of this small percentage, are we to simply take their word that they are adequately competent to take a loaded gun into a classroom? Will they react responsibly and accurately in a crisis situation? Do you think parents will be comfortable with an untested volunteer gun carrier sharing their 6 year old's classroom?
    Last edited by andysayshi; December 23rd, 2012 at 04:44 PM.

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    ok found what i was looking for . shotgun found in car , attended that school for short time early in life .

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by tombastep View Post
    Yet, you run to the constitution when it comes to your right to bear arms. Ironic.
    What irony? That's what the Constitution is for, to protect our rights.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Because from the teacher's point of view, a gun in the classroom is the security failure that motivates them to "make a good effort" in the first place.
    Then they're fools. Their dead bodies don't do the kids any good.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    So you agree with someone who posted to say he agrees with you...
    That's not why he posted -- he just referenced a point of mine, in connecting two things here nobody was connecting and pointing out a contradiction in a certain position.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by iwantbig View Post
    so , once again , and the reason i got onto this thread , any one got an answer to the questions i asked previously ?
    connection to the school , and the use of the assault rifle ?
    You know, by this time, with so many posts asking the same, a reasonable person would expect you'd have used google to find this yourself.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Simple. Even if the government bought the guns, that's far cheaper than paying bureaucrats.

    And remember that Canada abandoned one regulation scheme because it was extremely expensive with little to show for the money.
    Canada's has a gun registry that is currently in use, fair, and constitutional, and obligatory.

    It covers
    • a handgun that is not a prohibited firearm,
    • a firearm that has a barrel less than 470 mm in length, and is capable of discharging centre-fire ammunition in a semi-automatic manner,
    • a firearm that is designed or adapted to be fired when reduced to a length of less than 660 mm by folding, telescoping or otherwise, or
    • a firearm of any other kind that is prescribed to be a restricted firearm



    People must also register prohibited weapons to take advantage of grandfather clauses that allow them to keep weapons which were purchased before being listed as prohibited. Those include:
    • a handgun that has a barrel equal to or less than 105 mm in length, or is designed or adapted to discharge a 25 or 32 calibre cartridge, but does not include any such handgun that is prescribed, where the handgun is for use in international sporting competitions governed by the rules of the International Shooting Union,
    • a firearm that is adapted from a rifle or shotgun, whether by sawing, cutting or any other alteration, and that, as so adapted, is less than 660 mm in length, or is 660 mm or greater in length and has a barrel less than 457 mm in length,
    • an automatic firearm, whether or not it has been altered to discharge only one projectile with one pressure of the trigger, or
    • any firearm that is prescribed to be a prohibited firearm



    From 1993 until 2012, the Canadian Gun Registry also included rifles. This expansion of the registry occurred after the École Polytechnique Massacre in Montreal. It was designed to be a user-pay system, with the cost of registration covering the costs of administration, providing police access, etc.

    But a bunch of blowhard farmers complained that the government was going to make them register their rifles the same way they had to register their farm trucks or their hunting dogs or fill out paperwork for crop insurance or any other of those mean things that government makes you do when "writing is hard.." So they were given an extra year to register. Then the deadline was extended again. Then again. It is really fucking simple, if you have a user-pay system, and the users are never obliged to pay, then a registry supposed to cost $2 million a year ends up costing $60.

    And the chief defender of illiterate farmers who can't fill out a registration form is now President of Canada, so something that 74% of police officers found useful for solving crimes on a daily basis (the long gun registry) is now gone. But everything other than rifles is either registered or prohibited, requires a licence, and none of those restrictions are going away.
    Last edited by bankside; December 23rd, 2012 at 04:55 PM.

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    Can you substantiate this claim? All the references I've found place this figure much higher - typically 15% or more.

    In 2010, the NRA had an operating budget of around $200 million. Slightly over half this money is NRA membership fees. They accepted corporate donations from weapon manufacturers and related industries, companies they call "Corporate Partners", of $38.9 million. They include 22 different gun makers, including famous names like Smith & Wesson, Beretta USA, SIGARMS, and Sturm, Ruger & Co. that also manufacture so-called assault weapons. They received another $32 million from individual donations, but many of these "individuals" are executives and employees of the weapons industry also.

    The NRA gets still more revenue from its "round up" program, where gun and ammo buyers round up sales to the nearest dollar, donating those extra cents to the NRA; and another donation system called "add-a-buck", where gun dealers tack an extra dollar onto each sale for the NRA.

    And none of this even touches on the new way the NRA gathers and allocates resources via Super PACs during elections, which remains undisclosed. It is unclear how much money was donated by the weapons industry to NRA-controlled Super PACs during the last election cycle.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...ak-for/266373/

    http://www.vpc.org/studies/bloodmoney.pdf
    Business Week reported that in 2012 the NRA has gotten $14.8 million in donations from "firearms-related companies". I thought I posted my calculations from that; maybe half of that is actually from arms manufacturers, and I worked from there.

    Yeah, the "round-up" program along with "add-a-buck" are HUGE.

    It's my view from within the NRA that more manufacturers dollars go to the NRA-ILA than to the NRA itself. A lot goes to the NRA Foundation, too, which is supposed to help gun safety programs, educational efforts, youth shooting programs, and such, but in election years suddenly finds the NRA super-PACs to be worthy recipients -- thus doubly obscuring the money trail.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    I'll re-pose this question, which I asked Henry Reardon earlier in the thread but he failed to respond.

    Are teachers to undertake mandatory weapons training before their appointment as elementary school teachers ? How often will their weapon competency be tested, and who will fund the training and testing procedures? Will their weapons be provided by the Government? Given conservative criticism of "large government", would you support this expenditure of many billions of dollars per year?

    Do you not consider that a substantial bureaucracy would need to be in place to oversee the arming, training and insuring of tens of thousands of armed school teachers?
    Heck, no. The NRA has the "NRA Foundation" which is supposed to promote gun safety and training. Let the government provide whatever weapons the teachers who want them choose; let the NRA provide the training for free.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    LaPierre would have been a lot more credible if he'd suggested that teachers be armed, and offered the NRA's resources to train them at no cost.

    I just emailed the NRA, as an Endowment Member, telling them LaPierre made us look like fools.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    This thread began with the fact that the NRA proposes that there be an armed guard in every school in America.

    And also with this statement: "Conservatively, there are almost 120,000 public and private schools in the US.

    The cost of a single policeman in every school at salary and benefits of $65,000 per year will be $7.8 billion dollars."

    One shudders to think about armed rental barneys all over the country being perhaps a greater threat than the shooters we have seen. If we are talking about law enforcement officers being assigned to schools, the $65,000 total cost of employment is light.

    In any event, it should be paid for by a tax on gun sales and registration fees. There are 4 to 5 million guns sold every year, so do the math.

    There are about 90 guns in the US per each 100 Americans. The highest rate of private gun ownership in the world. Why? I go to BIG 5, a discount sporting good store chain in California. Standing in line to buy my tennis socks I see automatic weapons for sale. They look like military type rifles/machine guns? Anyway, I wonder what hunter would use this, if they want to eat game, or have it stuffed, whatever. There would be nothing left of a coon, rabbit, squirrel. duck. I guess it would make hunting easier, because you just blast the trees until something falls out. Kind of like fishing with a hand grenade.

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    In the US, about 75% of public school teachers are women. In elementary schools, the figure is closer to 90%.

    Only about 8% of gun owners in the US are women, according to recent estimates.

    We can extrapolate from this information that the number of school teachers who currently own and are trained to use a weapon is probably in the range of 8% or less. (I would speculate that it is much less.)

    Of this small percentage, are we to simply take their word that they are adequately competent to take a loaded gun into a classroom? Will they react responsibly and accurately in a crisis situation? Do you think parents will be comfortable with an untested volunteer gun carrier sharing their 6 year old's classroom?
    Now you're grasping at straws.

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by cocksucker4use View Post
    In any event, it should be paid for by a tax on gun sales and registration fees. There are 4 to 5 million guns sold every year, so do the math.
    Not gonna fly -- the Supreme Court has more than once decreed that a financial burden cannot be put on the exercise of a right.

    Quote Originally Posted by cocksucker4use View Post
    There are about 90 guns in the US per each 100 Americans. The highest rate of private gun ownership in the world. Why? I go to BIG 5, a discount sporting good store chain in California. Standing in line to buy my tennis socks I see automatic weapons for sale. They look like military type rifles/machine guns? Anyway, I wonder what hunter would use this, if they want to eat game, or have it stuffed, whatever. There would be nothing left of a coon, rabbit, squirrel. duck. I guess it would make hunting easier, because you just blast the trees until something falls out. Kind of like fishing with a hand grenade.
    No, you don't. This is a lie liberals keep trying to spread to scare people. Those rifles you see fire one bullet per pull of the trigger, no more.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    The NRA their a disgusting group of terrorist in waiting. The only way to honor the dead is to pass new strickter gun laws.

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    The problem in CE+P and in the mainstream media, is that it's become a "guns are bad" argument - period

    "studies show" ...........
    But studies DO show O.o

    And this isn't a "guns are bad" argument. This is a "guns in the general civil population are bad". The difference is huge, and matters.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    I don't understand why any teacher wouldn't want to be armed, given that it means protecting the kids.
    Which is exactly why your worldview is a fantasy land. I am a potential teacher, and I would never carry a gun to work. It is vile and disgusting, and the beginning of the end of civilization, when peaceful people must arm themselves to protect from some threat that it isn't their job to protect from.

    Not to mention how disgusting it is to force people to carry guns, when they don't want them, and then talk about protecting "freedoms" and preventing a "police state"...
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    I can't find any referent for that in this thread, so I don't know what you mean.

    I've been looking for a study I remember that showed that playing violent video games was negatively correlated with actual violence by the players, BTW -- can't find it. Some days google just doesn't like me.
    So there isn't observable evidence then?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Those are precisely the things the FFs meant: the common military weaponry of the day.
    As one of the authors of the 2nd Amendment, I'm sure you'd know... Seriously, keep reading more new stuff in that one sentence.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    I'd call it a "hallmark of a failed state" when citizens have to play Russian roulette with their lives because the government won't treat them like citizens but like cattle. A citizen is a man who may bear arms when he chooses -- others are sheep.
    There you go again, calling most of the civilized world "sheep" and "cattle". As a European, I find this personally offensive and it behooves me to tell you that you're getting WAY out of line.

    A citizen is a person who knows that guns are the mark of a paranoid coward, and real grown up societies don't need them.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Now you're grasping at straws.
    You still don't get how arguing works, do you? When someone provides you with percentages backed with statistics, saying that they're "grasping at straws" is simply not saying anything. He is giving you facts. You have to explain how those facts are either wrong, or not relevant, or avoidable, NOT tell him he didn't give you facts.

    ...some writer...
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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    LaPierre would have been a lot more credible if he'd suggested that teachers be armed, and offered the NRA's resources to train them at no cost.

    I just emailed the NRA, as an Endowment Member, telling them LaPierre made us look like fools.
    No, he wouldn't have been more credible. It is not part of the job description for a teacher to be required to carry a side-arm when teaching classes of students. That is absurd. Go into any faculty lounge and ask teachers how they feel about this and you'll have both men and women (a majority of them are women who are statistically less apt to own a gun) laugh at your face.
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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Just_Believe18 View Post
    No, he wouldn't have been more credible. It is not part of the job description for a teacher to be required to carry a side-arm when teaching classes of students. That is absurd. Go into any faculty lounge and ask teachers how they feel about this and you'll have both men and women (a majority of them are women who are statistically less apt to own a gun) laugh at your face.
    That tells me they aren't serious about protecting the kids, that they'd rather leave it to someone else to do something about it.

    Protecting their students is not a laughing matter. Remaining apathetic after the recent shootings is criminal.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    You know, by this time, with so many posts asking the same, a reasonable person would expect you'd have used google to find this yourself.
    what ? and trust something from an unknown source from a land far far away ?
    Last edited by iwantbig; December 23rd, 2012 at 11:47 PM.

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    Re: The NRA Solution is an insult to the Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    That tells me they aren't serious about protecting the kids, that they'd rather leave it to someone else to do something about it.

    Protecting their students is not a laughing matter. Remaining apathetic after the recent shootings is criminal.
    That is absolutely not true and insulting to every teacher who passionately believes in teaching and protecting their children. It is not the responsibility of the teacher to provide armed security of a school. They are there to teach. We have police officers to keep the peace. If society can't keep students and teachers safe from mad gunmen, then it is the society that needs to change, not the educated professional who is just there to do their job.
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