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  1. #101
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by JayQueer View Post
    It's obvious why Pres. Obama doesn't care about this Marine. He's a straight white man & a gun owner. Hardly a demographic that would support Obama anyway.

    Now, if it was a member of HRC that was being wrongly held, tortured in a Mexican Jail & threatened by Mexican drug cartels..........Obama would have sent in the Navy SEALs months ago.
    This didn't get deleted in the clean-up? This is trolling, baiting, racist, and vile.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  2. #102
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    Aww

    The drones don't like the title of the thread

    Debunker derailers unite

    A fellow vet has no sympathy

    Obama's purity and goodness trumps (ironic term) all

    Whatever chubs u up ladies

    As for Obama's ignorance on the issue

    I give u his personal valet Jay Carney who knew nothing about it and proved it with the press corps

    And Hammar's parents who when interviewed said so

    Love the details of mexico's laws - LOL

    Thank goodness for the bipartisan deeds of Nelson and Rubio

    The genuflecting may continue
    None of that explains why you miswrote a thread title that has nothing to do with President Obama knowing anything about this case to knowingly "ignore" the plight of this veteran. Your own reporting has discovered that the government is already on it, and that he will arrive safely back to his family. The thread seems done to me. No point continuing to trash Obama on this. Debunked and resolved.

    I only wish Sausy kept a cooler head in all this. He's one of the sensible and reflective ones.
    Last edited by Just_Believe18; December 19th, 2012 at 09:02 PM.
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  3. #103
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by Just_Believe18 View Post
    So JayQueer just turned this topic into a race baiting thread while interjecting a sarcastic comment against homosexuals (HRC) in a homosexual forum community.


    As for the article that this thread is about, it is first of all written with a bias slant that loses journalistic integrity. Additionally, the title of this article (and chance1's title) is misleading because no where does this information prove that President Obama actively knew about this case, reviewed it, and then chose to ignore it. It makes the assumption that because the man has not been released yet, that the State Department is somehow ignoring the case. Considering chance1 has now revealed that the man is going to be released, this faux outrage was all really for nothing.
    Try the Reuters story (I linked it) and the Chicago Tribune report.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  4. #104
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    It is yet one more example of why Jayqueer is no longer considered a credible poster in CE&P.
    Or, in some circles, even a grownup.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  5. #105
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    I DO NOT BUY IGNORANCE.
    Ever had to deal with severe PTSD?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  6. #106
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by Just_Believe18 View Post
    None of that explains why you miswrote a thread title that has nothing to do with President Obama knowing anything about this case to knowingly "ignore" the plight of this veteran. Your own reporting has discovered that the government is already on it, and that he will arrive safely back to his family. The thread seems done to me. No point continuing to trash Obama on this. Debunked and resolved.

    I only wish Sausy kept a cooler head in all this. He's one of the sensible and reflective ones.
    Miswrote?
    The title of the thread is the title of the linked piece
    Click on the link to see
    Anything else would've been a miswrote
    Bill Nelson is on with Bill O'Reilly right now
    He says there no reason for hammar to be in jail

    So much for JayHawks bullshit wail

    Perhaps u should chat with him about his let him rot attitude
    Yeah try that

    And your comment about Sausy is absurd

    Sausy is a grown man with diff views than u

    And u should respect that

    Especially when he's right

  7. #107
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    ^ Thanks for taking the time to provide the fleshed out explanation.

    I would note for Chance, that it doesn't appear to have been me who is desperate when you actually learn more about the facts and background of this story and then look at the thread title and some of the absurd ranting posts by the usual clique of Obama haters.
    As noted to JB
    The thread title is the title of the linked piece

    Your apology in advance is accepted by the gracious one

    And I LOVE the "Obama hatred"

    Broken record much ?

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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    I already took your article's written bias to task. The content of the article had nothing to do with Obama holding any responsibility to the veteran's imprisonment. Falling back on that to rationalize your own thread title falls flat.
    #439th oldest member on JUB.

  9. #109
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    Miswrote?
    The title of the thread is the title of the linked piece
    Click on the link to see
    Anything else would've been a miswrote
    Is that a new CE&P rule I missed, that we have to use the title of the article we're using for reference?

    Or is it you're just too mentally lazy to think of one for yourself?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  10. #110
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by Just_Believe18 View Post
    I already took your article's written bias to task. The content of the article had nothing to do with Obama holding any responsibility to the veteran's imprisonment. Falling back on that to rationalize your own thread title falls flat.
    Well I'm a strict constructionist so

    Title = title

    No one is blaming Obama For Hammar's imprisonment

    JayHawk is blaming hammar

    Bill Nelson isn't

    What do u think of that ?

    What do u think of his blaming ambassador Stevens for his own death

    Be outraged about that

    Not some stupid title

  11. #111
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    What do u think of his blaming ambassador Stevens for his own death

    Be outraged about that

    Not some stupid title
    It's a fair call. The ambassador knew it was dangerous and took a calculated risk. He lost.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  12. #112
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Look at chance go, how deftly he dances the dance of obfuscation.

    I bet he majored in that in college.
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  13. #113
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by Sausy View Post
    Absolutely outrageous....he's apparently been abused in that prison as well. He's a target there and if he's not released to our custody before something horrible happens to him, there will be blood on the Administration's hands.
    No it wont, if he broke Mexican law. Then he is rightfully in prison.

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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Ever had to deal with severe PTSD?
    I had a marine come in today for a final physical. He was diagnosed with severe depression and PTSD. When I was taking his vitals, I saw that he had cut himself and there was also a burn mark. When he told me the meds he was on, it was 3 pretty strong drugs. He is going to mental health and SACO (substand and alcohol counsler or something like that).

    It was sad going through his record and setting up his physical. He is such a beautiful guy, and seems like a good guy. After his physical with the Medical Officer he seemed happy and was joking and stuff. I really hope he does good on the outside. He made Corporal as a grunt which is hard as fuck, and probably did great things in Afghanistan, but just couldn't deal anymore.

    No, I did not violate any of HIPAA.

    Anyway, PTSD is a real thing, and he is suffering hard from it. He kept fucking up and now the military can't ignore his fuck ups and he is getting administratively seperated. Him and some other fat marine for almost the same shit. Just because you are a veteran, doesn't mean you can break the laws in any country and expect to get away with it. And looking through this thread, it seems Obama's people got on the issue.
    Last edited by Apollo; December 19th, 2012 at 09:49 PM.

  15. #115
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Ever had to deal with severe PTSD?
    I wouldn't call it PTSD... and I have worked with folks who have had issues. I held my shit in until i was done being operational. I am not better or unique or any such non-sense. I am just me. The folks dealing with what they dealt with and how they did it are themselves. That is really all you can ask for in life right?

    I can guarantee you I have the utmost respect for both Ambassador Stevens and any of our Service men and women... including this Marine and those that have done much worse. I have zero respect for an armchair warrior who happily calls for war and then doesn't even have the moxie to maintain any sort of values except "Obama Bad"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    It's a fair call. The ambassador knew it was dangerous and took a calculated risk. He lost.
    Thank you for that. Men take chances and often they fail. That makes the decision no less theirs. Could have he used MUCH more support -- undoubtedly. However he was also the leadership that made the final on going into that town with all of his knowledge of the continuing terror and violence towards westerners. he was there to dedicate a girls school named after the downed American pilot who was helped by the citizens he was defending. Geee you think a naming ceremony and announcing your intentions is a smart security tactic in a threat environment? Regardless the Ambassador had the courage of his convictions and was not simply a snarky less than authentic entity on a porn discussion forum. Unfortunately his poor tactic decision making cost him his life but at least he died doing what he desired in life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apollo View Post
    No it wont, if he broke Mexican law. Then he is rightfully in prison.
    I love the marines just as I love almost every other service but the airforce... Hell maybe more for what they do... bottom line is when you break laws you put yourself in harms way. Thank God the screaming Memes at Fox nor the ones on this board are the US government because that sort of irresponsible and arrogant behavior typically makes the other country less likely to agree to a release.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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  16. #116
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by Apollo View Post
    No it wont, if he broke Mexican law. Then he is rightfully in prison.
    He wasn't trying to smuggle the gun...he declared and tried to register it. He didn't deserve to be put in a dangerous prison controlled by drug cartels...he was not in the armed forces anymore...he wasn't looking for special treatment,and was given horrible advice by one of our people there...what a clusterfuck almost all the liberals here( loose constructionists on legal issues except when it comes to turning a blind eye to anything that could put the Obama Administration in a bad light. Fuck that!)!

    Thanks chance,i appreciate the defense...I don't give a fuck what Just Believe or anyone has to say on this...in one ear and out the other. There is no reasoning with progressive ideologues. Senator Bill Nelson is an honorable Democrat standing in defense of Jon Hammar and I'm glad he's in on the situation. If the Administration is getting off its lazy ass great...about fucking time four months later.
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Good for you, once again we agree, we don't give a fuck what you have to say either.

    Case closed.
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  18. #118
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Many sentences

    No substance

    Limp sarcasm

    Thread title was bait, so was thread

    The sad troll weeps

    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

    nailed it.

  19. #119
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    Well I'm a strict constructionist so

    Title = title

    No one is blaming Obama For Hammar's imprisonment

    JayHawk is blaming hammar

    Bill Nelson isn't

    What do u think of that ?

    What do u think of his blaming ambassador Stevens for his own death

    Be outraged about that

    Not some stupid title
    Broken record much?

  20. #120
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    I wouldn't call it PTSD... and I have worked with folks who have had issues. I held my shit in until i was done being operational. I am not better or unique or any such non-sense. I am just me. The folks dealing with what they dealt with and how they did it are themselves. That is really all you can ask for in life right?

    I can guarantee you I have the utmost respect for both Ambassador Stevens and any of our Service men and women... including this Marine and those that have done much worse. I have zero respect for an armchair warrior who happily calls for war and then doesn't even have the moxie to maintain any sort of values except "Obama Bad"



    Thank you for that. Men take chances and often they fail. That makes the decision no less theirs. Could have he used MUCH more support -- undoubtedly. However he was also the leadership that made the final on going into that town with all of his knowledge of the continuing terror and violence towards westerners. he was there to dedicate a girls school named after the downed American pilot who was helped by the citizens he was defending. Geee you think a naming ceremony and announcing your intentions is a smart security tactic in a threat environment? Regardless the Ambassador had the courage of his convictions and was not simply a snarky less than authentic entity on a porn discussion forum. Unfortunately his poor tactic decision making cost him his life but at least he died doing what he desired in life.



    I love the marines just as I love almost every other service but the airforce... Hell maybe more for what they do... bottom line is when you break laws you put yourself in harms way. Thank God the screaming Memes at Fox nor the ones on this board are the US government because that sort of irresponsible and arrogant behavior typically makes the other country less likely to agree to a release.
    Nice try on the obscene reversal of sentiment

    But you're on record with your heinous sentiments none of which had anything to do with me

    Stevens was at fault - caused his death - not the State Dept. - he was at fault
    And you assaulted his character

    Hammar you belittled

    Now this

    Not very consistent or credible

  21. #121

    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by Sausy View Post
    He wasn't trying to smuggle the gun...he declared and tried to register it. He didn't deserve to be put in a dangerous prison controlled by drug cartels...he was not in the armed forces anymore...he wasn't looking for special treatment,and was given horrible advice by one of our people there...what a clusterfuck almost all the liberals here( loose constructionists on legal issues except when it comes to turning a blind eye to anything that could put the Obama Administration in a bad light. Fuck that!)!

    Thanks chance,i appreciate the defense...I don't give a fuck what Just Believe or anyone has to say on this...in one ear and out the other. There is no reasoning with progressive ideologues. Senator Bill Nelson is an honorable Democrat standing in defense of Jon Hammar and I'm glad he's in on the situation. If the Administration is getting off its lazy ass great...about fucking time four months later.
    Amazing how some here have ignored the facts of this case.

    The guy was arrested when he asked Mexican authorities if he was doing the right thing. If he would have kept his mouth shut -- maybe none of this would have happened.

    I am saddened that there is no sympathy for military and ambassadors that lose their lives while serving our country.

    I've seen people put physicians and politicians on platforms before but never to the height that many are elevating Obama. When he falls ... will you be able to handle the consequences?

  22. #122
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Benghazi's Law (noun):, The Godwin's law of any thread created by or posted in by Chance or Springer. The ultimate irreducible for white guys still bitter and furious about Obama winning election. Derived from FOX talking points.

    Example: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail (Thread Title)

    Response by Chance: "What do u think of his blaming ambassador Stevens for his own death"

    See what he did there? Benghazi's Law.

    Follow-up by Springer: "I am saddened that there is no sympathy for military and ambassadors that lose their lives while serving our country."

    Note what he did there. A Benghazi Banzai, which includes not only using Banghazi's law...but throwing in a logical fallacy and egregious falsehood (hint: The guy in prison didn't lose his life serving his country) in order to:

    A.) point out that no one else, in a thread about some guy in a Mexican prison...has expressed sadness about military members losing their lives serving their country.

    B.) implying the emotional and moral laxity of all those posters in the thread saying that they have no sympathy for ambassadors who lose their lives while serving their country.

    Benghazi's Law and the Benghazi Banzai are used in any situation (sitch) where the OP or other partisan right wing posters realize that their thread topic and arguments have been blown to a fine spray of shit speckles and look to derail their own thread or use the 'Look over there!' approach to divert attention from their epic fails.
    Last edited by rareboy; December 20th, 2012 at 06:07 AM.

  23. #123
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    Benghazi's Law (noun):, The Godwin's law of any thread created by or posted in by Chance or Springer. The ultimate irreducible for white guys still bitter and furious about Obama winning election. Derived from FOX talking points.

    Example: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail (Thread Title)

    Response by Chance: "What do u think of his blaming ambassador Stevens for his own death"

    See what he did there? Benghazi's Law.

    Follow-up by Springer: "I am saddened that there is no sympathy for military and ambassadors that lose their lives while serving our country."

    Note what he did there. A Benghazi Banzai, which includes not only using Banghazi's law...but throwing in a logical fallacy and egregious falsehood (hint: The guy in prison didn't lose his life serving his country) in order to:

    A.) point out that no one else, in a thread about some guy in a Mexican prison...has expressed sadness about military members losing their lives serving their country.

    B.) implying the emotional and moral laxity of all those posters in the thread saying that they have no sympathy for ambassadors who lose their lives while serving their country.

    Benghazi's Law and the Benghazi Banzai are used in any situation (sitch) where the OP or other partisan right wing posters realize that their thread topic and arguments have been blown to a fine spray of shit speckles and look to derail their own thread or use the 'Look over there!' approach to divert attention from their epic fails.
    Working hard vs working smart approach

    But as Jack so directly states

    Hammar is getting the shaft and has been for 4 mos.

    Big enough for Jay Carney to have any knowledge ?
    Big enough for the State Dept. to not have told his parents "nothing we can do"

    Digest that and let me know if u agree

  24. #124
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    The vast ignorance of the outraged is epic.

    But it is telling how completely on point each of them are in their faux news rage.

    Would be nice if any of them did anything to back up their words. But words with no action are just that.

    Kinda like the turnout this last election after four years of obstruction and diatribe.

    The same goes for these 'local' opinions that lack any credible experience in the real world.

    For he who said "this guy tried to do the right thing" I would offer for you to get a prescription of legal marijuana here in the states and then travel across the boarder and tell them you just wanna comply with the law. They will imprison you and tell you that is how you comply.

    So inept... I really wish each of them could actually leave the myopic constraints of their fearful lives and do something someday.
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  25. #125
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    ^JH, there's where my point about PTSD comes in: the ability to look ahead can go bye-bye, and trust in what is familiar can rise -- i.e., the US border people who told him he was good.

    We need a protocol between the US and our two neighbors that if someone is trying to obey the law but gets it wrong, they don't go to jail, they just get turned back with an admonition to get it right next time... which can't be any sooner than, say, three months.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    ^JH, there's where my point about PTSD comes in: the ability to look ahead can go bye-bye, and trust in what is familiar can rise -- i.e., the US border people who told him he was good.

    We need a protocol between the US and our two neighbors that if someone is trying to obey the law but gets it wrong, they don't go to jail, they just get turned back with an admonition to get it right next time... which can't be any sooner than, say, three months.
    That works in theory... but I have yet to see a "Oopsie" clause in international politics. I did say that if US Customs officers had given him that information I would ensure that is not repeated. However the citizen who travels to another country is responsible for adhering to their laws.

    Just another case of faux outrage and a weak attempt to blame Obama like the Benghazi situation.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    That works in theory... but I have yet to see a "Oopsie" clause in international politics. I did say that if US Customs officers had given him that information I would ensure that is not repeated. However the citizen who travels to another country is responsible for adhering to their laws.

    Just another case of faux outrage and a weak attempt to blame Obama like the Benghazi situation.
    A citizen's ability to comply with laws is entirely dependent on his sources. The "ignorance of the law" excuse is barbaric.

    I don't give a hoot about Obama, because I don't know why he should be paying attention to this. But I'm still outraged.

    And I still think that making one of his buddies a consular employee and assigning him to visit the guy daily would be quite effective.

    Oh -- and donate enough quality bedding to that prison for every prisoner -- what he has in that pic is deplorable.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Epic fails, rareboy? How about the progressives' epic arrogance? Nose in the air, above it all...chance has more honesty in that twink face avatar of his than all the rarified air that progressives smugly breathe here.

    Benghazi's Law, amended...an inability or unwillingness by progressives to ever consider they are possibly mistaken to some extent on anything. And their particular tendency to lord it all above anyone else regarding their intellectual "superiority".
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    I thank Senator Bill Nelson,btw...he thinks it's outrageous and has worked with the Mexican ambassador and others to help expedite the situation and gain the release of Jon Hammar, even taking to the floor of the Senate to sound out on the travesty. Hopefully our officials will indeed get him released by Christmas.
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    A citizen's ability to comply with laws is entirely dependent on his sources. The "ignorance of the law" excuse is barbaric.

    I don't give a hoot about Obama, because I don't know why he should be paying attention to this. But I'm still outraged.

    And I still think that making one of his buddies a consular employee and assigning him to visit the guy daily would be quite effective.

    Oh -- and donate enough quality bedding to that prison for every prisoner -- what he has in that pic is deplorable.
    Hmmm so if I go to Washington state and buy an oz and then travel south in California I can use the I didnt know clause? I mean they do have legal marijuana in California right?
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by Sausy View Post
    I thank Senator Bill Nelson,btw...he thinks it's outrageous and has worked with the Mexican ambassador and others to help expedite the situation and gain the release of Jon Hammar, even taking to the floor of the Senate to sound out on the travesty. Hopefully our officials will indeed get him released by Christmas.
    Senator Nelson is doing his job for his constituent. He did not say it was outrageous that I can find... but I dont read every word stated by the man.

    That does seem reasonable although I dont see where the Senator makes a argument that we should be permitted to be ignorant of the law.

    It is extremely poor service to not return the call of a sitting US Senator if the Ambassador from Mexico is doing just that. He is not appointed or otherwise not able after their recent election that changed governments then I an understand that as well.

    Still the initial premise is just hand wringing and bullshit. This is not Obama's realm in any shape or form.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Ambassadors do have to be careful about what they say because their conversations are diplomatically the equivalent of a head of state (it is the direct personal representative) and their commitments can be binding. However, an ambassador, knowing this, would ordinarily be able to skillfully handle a call.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Oh - re, ignorance of the law….let's start with an outlandish example and work back to reality. Suppose you turn up at the border with a freshly severed head and say "Can I bring this into the country?" None of us would be surprised if they said not only "No," but that you would be detained during an investigation of a potential murder.

    Even if you protested that severing heads is legal where you come from, which is a colony of stateless peasants living on pieces of floating garbage in the middle of the Great Pacific Garbage Gyre, then you would still not expect them to say "Sorry. Severed heads are not legal in Mexico. Please come again."

    (Stay with me here…details are important…even if you were floating in international waters, if you had citizenship somewhere, or even if your boat did, then it would be possible to attribute national jurisdiction and thus the laws that would apply, but without it then if you and your fellow floating peasants want to sever heads, I'm not sure what legal principle would stop you. I think if you were picked up by a boat then the laws of the country where the boat is registered would apply. But if you floated directly onto a Mexican beach with the head already pre-severed and went to the customs office, then the boat rule would be ruled out because the whole Law of the Sea would no longer be the relevant law…Hmmmm….. Anyway, this has been fun. Admit it.)


    The point being, the severity of the crime determines the response. And it draws the line as to where discretion permits someone to be just turned away, or have the contraband seized but then to carry merrily on their way, or to be detained for a full investigation, including possible charges.

    And travellers should not be naïve about what may pass in one country being considered a serious crime in another.

    Can you see that a region in Mexico plagued by gun violence might take a very harsh zero-tolerance approach to weapons importation? No. Probably not. By my rough calculation, the 2nd Amendment to the Mexican Constitution was the one that removed compulsory socialist education from the classroom, but I'm betting not many people here are remembering that.
    Last edited by bankside; December 20th, 2012 at 04:08 PM.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  34. #134
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Oh - re, ignorance of the law….let's start with an outlandish example and work back to reality. Suppose you turn up at the border with a freshly severed head and say "Can I bring this into the country?" None of us would be surprised if they said not only "No," but that you would be detained during an investigation of a potential murder.

    Even if you protested that severing heads is legal where you come from, which is a colony of stateless peasants living on pieces of floating garbage in the middle of the Great Pacific Garbage Gyre, then you would still not expect them to say "Sorry. Severed heads are not legal in Mexico. Please come again."

    (Stay with me here…details are important…even if you were floating in international waters, if you had citizenship somewhere, or even if your boat did, then it would be possible to attribute national jurisdiction and thus the laws that would apply, but without it then if you and your fellow floating peasants want to sever heads, I'm not sure what legal principle would stop you. I think if you were picked up by a boat then the laws of the country where the boat is registered would apply. But if you floated directly onto a Mexican beach with the head already pre-severed and went to the customs office, then the boat rule would be ruled out because the whole Law of the Sea would no longer be the relevant law…Hmmmm….. Anyway, this has been fun. Admit it.)


    The point being, the severity of the crime determines the response. And it draws the line as to where discretion permits someone to be just turned away, or have the contraband seized but then to carry merrily on their way, or to be detained for a full investigation, including possible charges.

    And travellers should not be naïve about what may pass in one country being considered a serious crime in another.

    Can you see that a region in Mexico plagued by gun violence might take a very harsh zero-tolerance approach to weapons importation? No. Probably not. By my rough calculation, the 2nd Amendment to the Mexican Constitution was the one that removed compulsory socialist education from the classroom, but I'm betting not many people here are remembering that.
    On both my trips to Mexico, ordinary people have volunteered that they envy us our Second Amendment.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  35. #135
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    On both my trips to Mexico, ordinary people have volunteered that they envy us our Second Amendment.
    Mexico has now established successive free and fair elections. That tells me your two people are exceptions to the general Mexican consensus about the features of their constitution and/or the relative importance of making a change. The laws of Mexico have not been rewritten for the convenience of one US marine, who accepted bad advice improperly offered by his home-country officials, simply because you have met two Mexicans who want to change their constitution.

    Moreover, I might have thought a marine would have known something about law in other countries being different from his own, and enough about a chain of command to recognize that officials from his own country have no standing to interpret his obligations under another country's laws.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  36. #136
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Mexico has now established successive free and fair elections. That tells me your two people are exceptions to the general Mexican consensus about the features of their constitution and/or the relative importance of making a change. The laws of Mexico have not been rewritten for the convenience of one US marine, who accepted bad advice improperly offered by his home-country officials, simply because you have met two Mexicans who want to change their constitution.
    It was a heck of a lot more than two people. And "free and fair elections" haven't done much at all to deal with local police corruption or roaming gangs or drug cartels.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Do I think he should be freed? Yes I do but in the same breath,if you still aren't 100% sure of something,don't do it. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
    More to the point,telling a country your option of their laws and demanding the person be freed or else propably won't work. Just a thought.

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    ecce homo rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by Sausy View Post
    Epic fails, rareboy? How about the progressives' epic arrogance? Nose in the air, above it all...chance has more honesty in that twink face avatar of his than all the rarified air that progressives smugly breathe here.

    Benghazi's Law, amended...an inability or unwillingness by progressives to ever consider they are possibly mistaken to some extent on anything. And their particular tendency to lord it all above anyone else regarding their intellectual "superiority".
    Well that is all pretty weak sauce there Sausy.

    To begin with, using an avatar of Ryan Koning for likely a much older and likely less appealing dude is hardly to be accorded the accolade of 'honesty'.

    I am using Santa as an avatar right now but that sure as hell doesn't mean I'm bringing everyone presents.

    As for the rest of it? Good lord people. It isn't about intellectual superiority. It is about making the effort to be open to a wider range of input and ideas, to be able to embrace the best ideas and qualities of real conservativism as well as social liberalism and the principles of communal effort that literally built the US up until the self-serving Neocons and radical rightwingers decided that they loved Ayn Rand more than the ideals that made their country the envy of the world.

    In some cases it just means expecting that people who have so much to say about what their country should be would actually have more knowledge of the dynamics of its history than an auslander and that they might be able to do more than fire off one foamy mouthed hate thread after another about the president they hate and have not accepted as having another four years in power.

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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    Well that is all pretty weak sauce there Sausy.

    To begin with, using an avatar of Ryan Koning for likely a much older and likely less appealing dude is hardly to be accorded the accolade of 'honesty'.

    I am using Santa as an avatar right now but that sure as hell doesn't mean I'm bringing everyone presents.

    As for the rest of it? Good lord people. It isn't about intellectual superiority. It is about making the effort to be open to a wider range of input and ideas, to be able to embrace the best ideas and qualities of real conservativism as well as social liberalism and the principles of communal effort that literally built the US up until the self-serving Neocons and radical rightwingers decided that they loved Ayn Rand more than the ideals that made their country the envy of the world.

    In some cases it just means expecting that people who have so much to say about what their country should be would actually have more knowledge of the dynamics of its history than an auslander and that they might be able to do more than fire off one foamy mouthed hate thread after another about the president they hate and have not accepted as having another four years in power.
    As they say on Sesame Street

    "P" is for POMPOUS

    Happy holidays to all

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    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    I know chance I wish you guys would stop being so arrogant and actually look at the facts before jumping to pompous conspiracy based conclusions.

    But what can we do you have been here for a long time spouting the same lack of evidence conspiracies.

    But thank you for the Pompous Season greetings. Here is a righteous back at ya.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  41. #141
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    I know chance I wish you guys would stop being so arrogant and actually look at the facts before jumping to pompous conspiracy based conclusions.

    But what can we do you have been here for a long time spouting the same lack of evidence conspiracies.

    But thank you for the Pompous Season greetings. Here is a righteous back at ya.
    The next genuine thing u say will be the first

    So there's hope

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    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    So you gonna go ahead and admit your thread on the military not helping was trash? How about the Obama watched and let them rot idea? How about in here where somehow it is Obama's job to free a guy who violated the law of another country...?

    You never admit your wrong but whine about the 85... it is lacking any sort of genuine honesty. But we all know what we will get when we see Chance has posted anew. Barely readable haiku taking an "OMG I am offended" that other people have different ideas position. Failing an actual position point you then blame the 85. Failing that you call them all Obamapologist because OBLC was determined to be baiting after six or so months of being your primary argument....come up with a new schtick sunshine and try to develop a position founded in critical though instead of one handed to you by Bill Oreilly.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    The Mexican Court ordered Jon Hammar released, citing a violation of constitutional rights under Mexican law and emphasizing the lack of willful criminal intent in Hammar's case. Hammar certainly would be in deep shit if he depended on self righteous"progressives" who would interpret the law any fucking way they pleased but well, not in this case. I never said Obama had to personally intervene but we have a State Department that should have been on it....after all, Customs agents misinformed Hammar about Mexican law. Maybe they were involved in the end, but my thanks to principled Democrats like Bull Nelson of Florida(there are SOME left) who helped push for Hammar's release. Hammar showed no intent whatsoever to smuggle the gun, a family heirloom intended to be used hunting in Costa Rica. He declared it and tried to register it...any problems he should have been told he couldn't enter Mexico with it, not rashly imprisoned.

    I wasn't one of those ideologues on the right who wanted to boycott Mexico on this, I just wanted action from our government.. from someone to rectify on obvious overreaction and injustice from those Mexican officials who had Hammar arrested. Thankfully the Mexican courts system came through to end this charade and Jon Hammar will be home with his family today.


    So to rareboy and Jay Hawk, "whatever"!
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  44. #144
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  45. #145
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    So you gonna go ahead and admit your thread on the military not helping was trash? How about the Obama watched and let them rot idea? How about in here where somehow it is Obama's job to free a guy who violated the law of another country...?

    You never admit your wrong but whine about the 85... it is lacking any sort of genuine honesty. But we all know what we will get when we see Chance has posted anew. Barely readable haiku taking an "OMG I am offended" that other people have different ideas position. Failing an actual position point you then blame the 85. Failing that you call them all Obamapologist because OBLC was determined to be baiting after six or so months of being your primary argument....come up with a new schtick sunshine and try to develop a position founded in critical though instead of one handed to you by Bill Oreilly.
    Yawn - who can read your self aggrandizing bullshit that ignores facts

    Where u claim to be an expert on all things - LOL

    You've morphed into a US rareboy - not a good thing

    the hammar family thanks u for ur support - good to know ur loyalties r so solid - glad I'm not in a foxhole with u

    and cease and desist on your childlike pms that have an abundance of misspellings which r the highlights actually

    Cheers

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    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by Sausy View Post
    The Mexican Court ordered Jon Hammar released, citing a violation of constitutional rights under Mexican law and emphasizing the lack of willful criminal intent in Hammar's case. Hammar certainly would be in deep shit if he depended on self righteous"progressives" who would interpret the law any fucking way they pleased but well, not in this case. I never said Obama had to personally intervene but we have a State Department that should have been on it....after all, Customs agents misinformed Hammar about Mexican law. Maybe they were involved in the end, but my thanks to principled Democrats like Bull Nelson of Florida(there are SOME left) who helped push for Hammar's release. Hammar showed no intent whatsoever to smuggle the gun, a family heirloom intended to be used hunting in Costa Rica. He declared it and tried to register it...any problems he should have been told he couldn't enter Mexico with it, not rashly imprisoned.

    I wasn't one of those ideologues on the right who wanted to boycott Mexico on this, I just wanted action from our government.. from someone to rectify on obvious overreaction and injustice from those Mexican officials who had Hammar arrested. Thankfully the Mexican courts system came through to end this charade and Jon Hammar will be home with his family today.


    So to rareboy and Jay Hawk, "whatever"!
    The thread was started with OBAMA Abandoning Marine in Jail... that is the pure ignorance. Not our normal process working as it should.

    Gee if I was wrong then why did a Mexican court have to rule on the matter? Why was this man released without magical presidential involvement as is the baiting thread title?

    Sucks to be right so often it hurts....
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    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    Yawn - who can read your self aggrandizing bullshit that ignores facts

    Where u claim to be an expert on all things - LOL

    You've morphed into a US rareboy - not a good thing

    the hammar family thanks u for ur support - good to know ur loyalties r so solid - glad I'm not in a foxhole with u

    and cease and desist on your childlike pms that have an abundance of misspellings which r the highlights actually

    Cheers
    Chance just because I am typically right and you are typically misguided by republican lies that you are gullible enough to swallow doesn't mean I am expert in all. It just means I understand what facts are and am not willfully misguided because it fits my ideology. Or in your case a lack of ideology that simply revolves around Obama is wrong in any situation. Your the kind of people who follow red robed lunatics into the ceremony room and drink the koolaid... but it is okay buddy. We have several threads that are discussing the need to increase mental health support.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  48. #148
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    Yawn - who can read your self aggrandizing bullshit that ignores facts

    Where u claim to be an expert on all things - LOL

    You've morphed into a US rareboy - not a good thing

    the hammar family thanks u for ur support - good to know ur loyalties r so solid - glad I'm not in a foxhole with u

    and cease and desist on your childlike pms that have an abundance of misspellings which r the highlights actually

    Cheers
    Which facts did he ignore? Less haiku, more concrete information please? Or are we gonna play the "you don't deserve it" game again?
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  49. #149
    Banned chance1's Avatar
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    The thread was started with OBAMA Abandoning Marine in Jail... that is the pure ignorance. Not our normal process working as it should.

    Gee if I was wrong then why did a Mexican court have to rule on the matter? Why was this man released without magical presidential involvement as is the baiting thread title?

    Sucks to be right so often it hurts....
    Aww did the title upset u ?

    Couldn't read beyond it ?

    It was not a long one

    Full of facts

    That u ignored

    And instead ranted about the accused

    Who was treated shabbily

    But better to be defensive about Obama and the State Dept.

    God forbid

    Politics over people

    Say it ain't so

  50. #150
    Impish and Mercurial Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: Pres. Obama Ignores Ex-Marine Wrongly Held In Mexican Jail l

    Obama had nothing to do with this situation, nor should he have had anything to do with it. Case really quite closed.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

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