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  1. #251

    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    See the problem is that is not what the democratic position is and it hasn't been said as such except in screeching tone on fox news and perhaps the odd entertainment on MSNBC...

    The greatest inequity between classes since just prior to the great depression. WHAT is possibly confusing about that?

    Entitlements should not altered to remove capability which is all republicans appear to offer. The best method would be doing what the 70's congress had the foresight to do and adjust it to meet the need. It is not the problem. Doubling our defense budget for two barely useful wars IS the problem.
    What inequity? Perhaps you mean inequality, which is not the same thing. Or perhaps you are revealing the Democrat intention to pull down the rich to a position of equality in the name of equity. If the Democrats were really concerned about inequality they would be willing to stop creating more poverty. Alas, poor people tend to vote Democrat so they need more.

  2. #252
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    I think your country would do very well on Bill Clinton's tax rates and Bill Clinton's economic growth rates. Taxing people enough to pay for the cost of government services does not mean turning your back on growth. It does mean that billionaires and millionaires would get richer a little bit slower than they had hoped. Oh well.

  3. #253

    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    I think your country would do very well on Bill Clinton's tax rates and Bill Clinton's economic growth rates. Taxing people enough to pay for the cost of government services does not mean turning your back on growth. It does mean that billionaires and millionaires would get richer a little bit slower than they had hoped. Oh well.
    The growth you are referring to occurred when the Republicans controlled both houses and limited Clinton's spending, and you are giving Clinton credit for the peace dividend after Reagan and Bush ended the cold war. I agree that we should go back to the Clinton rates, and, indeed, it may happen tomorrow. But you are wrong if you think we can tax people enough to elinimate Obama's deficits without stifling growth here and world wide. Merely ending the Bush tax cuts tomorrow will likely send us back into recession, but that is better than the alternative.

  4. #254

    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    How exactly is the inability of the Republican Congress to budge or compromise even when it's in their own best interest his fault exactly?

    I get that he's a black socialist Democrat and all that, but beyond that an actual reason would be nice.
    Why are you obsessed with the color of a person's skin? Get over it man.

  5. #255

    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    If our leadership in DC can't get together to solve this little problem, how will they ever solve the big problem of the the 16 trillion dollars.

    We need leadership .... another Ronald Reagan, George Washington or Abraham Lincoln who all understood what it was to be a leader.

  6. #256
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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    The delusion you are labouring under is that republicans are responsible with money. They just aren't. Gingrich was nothing special. And Bush Junior took the peace dividend and spent it on war as his personal pastime with no plan to ever pay for it. Bush took Clinton's legacy and flew it into the ground. Obama inherited a Bush economic disaster, and he has spent four years artfully preventing economic collapse, which costs a lot of money. It's clear that spending has to climb down, but don't kid yourself about why it was necessary. Or at least the rest of us shouldn't be fooled: Obama has been fighting a war just as expensive as the Cold War, the war against economic collapse brought about by Bush Junior's ineptitude, failure to plan, and his false promise that you can fight wars for nothing and get someone else to pick up the tab.

    I tell you what; here's a better constitutional amendment to replace the Second: No US military action will occur without a sales tax rate sufficient to pay the full cost of all operations, matériel, salaries, and veterans medical costs, and any related research and development.

    With an amendment like that, Bush Junior would have been impeached in his first term and the Bush Junior Republican Financial Collapse of 2008 would have never happened.

  7. #257
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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    You cannot say the wars were wasted. Without them the terrotist would have had a free rein to bomb us at will. Both parties agreed about the necessity of the for the Afghan war and Obama is apparently not going to withdraw in2014.
    Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with anything. It could have just as easily been invading Denmark as far as accomplishing the goal you mention.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Why are you obsessed with the color of a person's skin? Get over it man.
    I see you also have no answer. Just blame blame blame.

  8. #258
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    What inequity? Perhaps you mean inequality, which is not the same thing. Or perhaps you are revealing the Democrat intention to pull down the rich to a position of equality in the name of equity. If the Democrats were really concerned about inequality they would be willing to stop creating more poverty. Alas, poor people tend to vote Democrat so they need more.
    No I mean inequity... feel free to look it up. I wont explain it to you because you will deny it anyhow.
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  9. #259
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    The growth you are referring to occurred when the Republicans controlled both houses and limited Clinton's spending, and you are giving Clinton credit for the peace dividend after Reagan and Bush ended the cold war. I agree that we should go back to the Clinton rates, and, indeed, it may happen tomorrow. But you are wrong if you think we can tax people enough to elinimate Obama's deficits without stifling growth here and world wide. Merely ending the Bush tax cuts tomorrow will likely send us back into recession, but that is better than the alternative.
    Wait a minute your entire argument is that republicans wont raise rates until dems cuts because last time they promised cuts and didnt deliver... so now your trying to assume both sides of the street to make your arguments work.... it is a sickness buddy? A sickness.
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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Ok so same goes for you as for chance... go ahead and give your plan other than government spending for recovery from a recession. We'll wait.
    What's with your attitude lately? Behave like an adult if you want to discuss adult topics.

    I said nothing of any plan. All I did was respond to another poster that implied this president has no hand in increasing our debt.

  11. #261
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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by JB3 View Post
    What's with your attitude lately? Behave like an adult if you want to discuss adult topics.

    I said nothing of any plan. All I did was respond to another poster that implied this president has no hand in increasing our debt.
    I am behaving like an adult. Why would you postulate something that does not have a chance of existing in reality. That is why I asked for you to provide a plan to defeat a recession handed to the man before he walked in the door. It is incredibly tiring listening to people make comparisons that are not even remotely based in reality. Bush CHOSE to spend money on Senior Drug programs and two wars on a credit card while giving tax rates to his party that continued to increase our debt because he and the republican congress was failing to pay our bills.

    So given a recession on par but not as steep as the great depression how do you propose we get out of that with the least American citizen suffering? It is fun to say Obama has a big tab, not place it in context and then pretend you have made an adult point. In reality Obama has shrank our spending levels... had republicans allowed him to govern we would have a trillion less debt right now... easily.


    On the fiscal cliff apparently Biden and McConnell worked through into the new year to make the deal. I would be lying if I said that I thought it was going to pass the house. Not until Boehner has his speakership vote in two days... if it does I will be surprised.

    agreement that would let income-tax rates rise for the first time in nearly 20 years, maintain unemployment benefits for millions of people and blunt the impact of spending cuts that were looming as part of the so-called "fiscal cliff."

    The long-sought compromise, which will raise taxes on income over $450,000 for couples, was approved by the Senate in the early morning hours Tuesday. The House was expected to consider it later in the day
    the house has their embarrassing debacle at noon... I mean the house considers the bill at noon.....
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  12. #262
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Perhaps those of you under the illusion that democrats spend more than republicans should do some research. Equally those of you under the assumption that Obama has spent through the roof compared to anyone ever, for ever, ever.... should do a bit of research as well...

    Has Obama Spent More Than Any Other U.S. President in History? Yes and No

    Cheers.
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  13. #263
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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    I honestly and sincerely believe from everything I've ever seen, read, heard and experienced of the conservative worldview that they would say even two totally wasted wars are a better investment than seeing any of that money go to "parasites" here at home who are part of our economy. Or for services, infrastructure or jobs that help or service them.
    The defense contractors are "parasites," too.

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with anything. It could have just as easily been invading Denmark as far as accomplishing the goal you mention.
    The same type of TRUTH (that, indeed, Iraq had nothing to do with NineOneOne), of course, would say that in 1941, when Pearl Harbor was bombed, the USA should have invaded Iceland.

    Indeed PNAC, The Project for the New American Century think tank, suggested in the 1990's that the United States needed another Pearl Harbor in order to give an excuse to flex military muscle and assert military superiority and hubris over the rest of the planet.,
    Last edited by frankfrank; January 1st, 2013 at 05:55 AM.
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  14. #264

    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    I don't know... ask the people in the republican party why they keep dragging their feet...

    Ronald Reagan... ugh worst president since Harding. do better than that.

    The republicans are willing to take this country off the cliff for a filthy political agenda.
    Obama's solution is to raise taxes without addressing spending. How can that make you happy?

  15. #265
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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    The deal penned by the Senate has a lot of items in it actually...

    I posted an abbreviated version of the bills items as covered in the link above... however they forbid reproduction I just saw... so go to the link... lots in that bill.
    So essentially it assigns the Debt Ceiling as the new OMG crisis that will be covered wall to wall with much hand wringing....

    Anyone who follows the spending of our Congress understands that a trillion has been cut already and Obama is actually spending at the lowest level of increases compared to every President since Hoover. The only people under the illusion that that isn't so also were under the illusion that all polls were wrong and Romney would win.
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  16. #266
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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by frankfrank View Post
    The defense contractors are "parasites," too.
    Of course they are. But when the right talks about parasites they are talking about W2 wage earners who fall under 250k a year.

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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    AUSTERITY DOESN'T FUCKING WORK. Want a recession? Follow what the republicans are saying... austerity would slide this nation back into a recession.
    The Republicans aspire to the United States having a national economic structure similar to WORSE THAN that of Saudi Arabia.

    Not to mention a theocracy also similar to those of the Middle East, with heresy and other such things returning as crimes, and prisons near every major intersection providing slave labor to make products.

    The Incarceration Nation.

    Hey! Look! That brings JOBS back to the United States.

    A thin but impermeable layer of the über-rich at the top, burying the yearning, starving masses underneath. Sort of like the liner on a landfill built upside-down.

    After they successfully steal the wealth of 99.3% of Americans, the world's first Trillionaires would emerge.

    Go to hell, Eric Cantor. Take Darrell Issa with you, please.
    Last edited by frankfrank; January 1st, 2013 at 03:32 PM.
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  18. #268
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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    ^ hyperbole much ?

    just saw Debbie Wasserman Schultz on with the Wolf (Blitzer)

    lots of hand wringing

    IF the Repubs in the House fuck this up ............. they will have continued what seems to be a pattern of overplaying their hand

    "get them to sign on the line that is dotted" - name the movie

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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    The repugs have been overplaying their hand for two years. How is that anything new?

    They have been fucking this country over extensively.
    it's just that they've sorta been handed a gift - the deal on the table is not so heinous even to extremers - with a fight down the road that they can partake in if they so desire - and an income level for tax cuts to stop at a compromised figure

    it can only get worse (for them)

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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    They want a nation with an economic structure similar to that of El Salvador. Where 15 or 20 families control 97% of the wealth and the rest are left in dire poverty. By advocating government cutbacks and neglecting infrastructure, republicans are in the end shooting themselves in the foot. Infrastructure crumbling in this country and all they can talk about is tax cuts and spending cuts... both of which are failures.

    If we don't invest in our infrastructure, our economy will be in serious peril. Dwight Eisenhower would be turning in his grave looking at the morons that took over his party.
    And they don't care even though people would THINK that they would care because "who is going to support your businesses or keep you rich if everyone is poor" but most of these people are transnationals with interests that transcend just the U.S. market or economy. I don't think B.P. honestly cares that much about whether the average purchasing power of U.S. households is going up or down.

  21. #271

    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    We hit the fiscal cliff and the world did not end. One day at a time.

    I'm hoping that the House votes the bill down and Obama gets what he wants.

  22. #272
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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    OK, so all the king's horses and all the king's men...couldn't get it done. How the FUCK do these assholes (Dem, Rep, top, bottom, whatever) have the cajones to even pretend to give a fuck about US? Out with the lot of 'em! Any incumbent in the next 4 years should be thrown out on his/her ass. No sense debating who was right and who was wrong. We the People are FUCKED, and who do we pay to take care of business? They're all to blame. And they call ME a stupid cocksucker.....

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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    it's just that they've sorta been handed a gift - the deal on the table is not so heinous even to extremers - with a fight down the road that they can partake in if they so desire - and an income level for tax cuts to stop at a compromised figure

    it can only get worse (for them)
    Cantor already said he cannot support the bill. he is the Majority leader and will take the opinion of the majority with him. They will craft an alternative bill that demands all of their wish list like previous ransom demands they have passed off as negotiation. The Senate already left Washington and wont be back to vote on a deal or counter a ridiculous republican offer until jan 3rd..... After Boehner is voted speaker again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    We hit the fiscal cliff and the world did not end. One day at a time.

    I'm hoping that the House votes the bill down and Obama gets what he wants.
    I do too but not for the childish reason you push such an idea. You actually want people to suffer because that is what republicans use to get their way fear and suffering.

    I want the vote to fail and the cliff to continue 'cliffing' because republicans will be eviscerated for it and i can think of no better gift to this country. However if republicans voted on the bi-partisan deal support almost unanimously by the Senate then whatever ransom demand they bring up should be rejected. This country does not negotiate with terrorist.
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  24. #274

    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    ^^^

    Who's going to suffer? The unemployed -- they've been suffering for 4 years.

    This bill is a mess. Congress and the President didn't accomplish anything with this bill except raise taxes -- nothing to solve the country's problems. 2013 will be littered with similar cliffs month-after-month.

    Tax rate increases are stupid -- the really rich will not pay. Close the fucking loopholes -- make the rich pay. I honestly think that Obama is stupid -- he doesn't understand.


    [Text: Removed]
    Last edited by opinterph; January 1st, 2013 at 08:41 PM. Reason: removed interpersonal commentary

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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    ^^^

    Who's going to suffer? The unemployed -- they've been suffering for 4 years.
    So wait are you now unhappy that FEDERAL SPENDING won't be increased to take care of all those "parasites"?

    Could you please get your story straight?

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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    And gentlemen we have a deal. If things would just go to the floor for a vote then America could be legislated again. I was wrong about Boehner. I did not think he has the moxie to have a vote before his speakership vote.

    Boehner was right a new congress and new negotiations would have started Jan 3rd.
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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Chance will be glad to read:

    it blocked a congressional pay raise that could have provoked the wrath of voters who view Congress with disdain for its chronic brinkmanship and failure to solve major problems.

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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Obama says it is time we had these types of votes before the last minute and before we scare the shit out of everyone.

    He also firmly maintained that republicans using the debt ceiling to refuse to pay debt they already authorized is irresponsible and not the course for leading through the future cuts discussions.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    Chance will be glad to read:
    Yeah he already saw that because that was the Senate wording.
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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    It is GC but at the end of the day they lsot in November and these were the death throws.

    I wills till give credit. Boehner had the courage to offer the bill. Knowing he will probably pay a price in a few days.

    We can only hope the new congress is less intransigent.

    What also just dawned on me is that the history books will call Obama genius for having the foresight to have a thirty year Senator be his right hand man. This is Biden's hard work. Hopefully we can see the same balanced approach on spending cuts and gun violence.
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  30. #280
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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    So wait are you now unhappy that FEDERAL SPENDING won't be increased to take care of all those "parasites"?

    Could you please get your story straight?
    Not possible.

    There are too many "low information" voters to be exploited, and told who to blame for their lot in life.

    Hint: Anyone but those who are actually TOO blame.

    Which at this point is both parties, but why sully good talking points?
    Last edited by CTF; January 1st, 2013 at 09:47 PM.
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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Looks like everybody's gonna get shafted after all. Someone just emailed me saying to read the bill or at least a summary of it, because the bill will increase taxes on 80% of Americans, not just those making over $400K or couples making $450k.

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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by JustMe5 View Post
    Looks like everybody's gonna get shafted after all. Someone just emailed me saying to read the bill or at least a summary of it, because the bill will increase taxes on 80% of Americans, not just those making over $400K or couples making $450k.
    Just FYI 99% of e-mail forwarded political e-mails from friends/coworkers/that lady at little league are turbo right wing, and deficient in reality.

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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    From Slate: The Slatest!

    Taxes

    • For couples earning more than $450,000 (or individuals earning more than $400,000), Bush-era tax cuts will expire, and the top income tax rate will rise from 35 percent to 39.6 percent
    • For couples earning less than $250,000 (or individuals earning less than $200,000), Bush-era tax cuts will be made permanent
    • For households earning between those two figures, some exemptions and deductions will expire
    • Investment taxes and estate taxes will rise, though with big exemptions
    • Stimulus tax credits for college tuition and the working poor will be extended for five years
    • Benefits for the long-term unemployed will be extended for one year
    • The alternative minimum tax will not go into effect for some 30 million taxpayers, but the payroll tax cut will expire, hitting most taxpayers
    • Some stimulus tax credits for businesses, including in the renewable energy sector, will be extended for one year
    Yes taxes go up on everyone. The Payroll tax feeding Social Security goes back to 6.2 percent or a 2% raise. There are no details on what incentives are cut between the two income benchmarks. However the bill raises only 600 Billion in revenue and slashes 3.7 Trillion in revenue that would have been gained if the cliff had simply occurred.

    Still the EITC and Child Credit remain for impoverished families. SO the absolute bottom of the American economic scale will see no increase that they actually feel.


    So the long and short is we gave up a tax increase that would be a quarter of our deficit to accept an increase in revenue of one fifth that amount. Yet we had to begin somewhere with paying our bills and as the economy rebounds it will be in future congresses that we need to raise the marginal rate on all to pay the rest of our bill.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  34. #284
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Yeah i agree. It is exactly what we needed. Head in the right direction. Now the left wont like it but Obama said he would entertain cuts once taxes were raised so you will see the white house facing a lot of lefty criticism very soon. Spending is out of control. Again a balanced action where each side takes some thing they don't like and agree to get some things they desire to cut... then after 2014 hopefully the democrats regain congress, the economy gets into full swing in 2015 and taxes get raised to get us back to a satisfactory level of debt.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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  35. #285
    Banned chance1's Avatar
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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    And gentlemen we have a deal. If things would just go to the floor for a vote then America could be legislated again. I was wrong about Boehner. I did not think he has the moxie to have a vote before his speakership vote.



    Boehner was right a new congress and new negotiations would have started Jan 3rd.
    and unlike Pelosi and her $100M stash - Boehner has only $4M

    kudos to him for having some balls after all

    it will likely be off with his head but it was the right thing to do

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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    FX markets seems unimpressed overall. Weighted cors flat EUR/USD best....

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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    ^flat is the new up

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    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by GiancarloC View Post
    http://defense.aol.com/2012/03/30/f-...fends-program/

    This is excessive in my mind. I think there is a newer article mentioned how they reduced the costs slightly, but it's still expensive.

    I don't know... but I think cuts can be made in certain places... but overall most programs need to be kept in place. Personally I think Lockheed is ripping off the government here.

    I just feel if there are too many cuts that could inhibit any recovery and put a damper on growth.
    Oh yeah defense is bloated. by my count we need to shed 250,000 military jobs so that means easily losing half a million defense industry jobs. However it has to be a ten year plan. No way it would be fair to those being dumped or to the economy to dump 3/4 of a million onto the job market.

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    and unlike Pelosi and her $100M stash - Boehner has only $4M

    kudos to him for having some balls after all

    it will likely be off with his head but it was the right thing to do
    I always felt Boehner was agonizing over not being able to accomplish anything. I hope he retains his speakership to be quite honest. While he is only showing glints of bi-partisan greatness and if re-elected will probably return to the normal tea party punching bag. Yet the debt ceiling and budget talks are right around the corner. Cantor is next up to bat and that speakership would be tragic.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Hearing mixed info today. Couple of thoughts before I head out.

    The deal purportedly not only raised only 600 Billion or fives days operating budget.... it also cost 4 trillion... I have yet to find if that 4 trillion cost referenced is talking about the 3.7 trillion in Clinton era tax rates that will now be permanently Bush tax rates for those below 400-450.

    The best example I heard was what Biden apparently said in the Dem caucus. He said take it as a stepped approach. First debt cliff netted a trillion in cuts, second cliff nail biter netted 600 billion but contained no cuts, so then the final stage should be in the next 60 days. Which still has the fiscal cliff trillion dollar spending cuts looming.

    So really we will have to see if republicans figured out they could have had a much better deal last summer and perhaps they should work during working hours and not be obstinate. Equally Senate Dems and the President need to rapidly and publicly put their deal on the table.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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    Banned chance1's Avatar
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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Cantor is a weasel to the nth degree - his voting record speaks for itself

    and I have seen him on a handful of cable news programs - he generally hides but occasionally appears - and when he does - he's a major turd who looks and sounds the part of a used car salesman (no offense to CE+P car salesmen)

    says nada ever and is basically an obstructionist

    i actually feel for Boehner - Woodward's book said that JB worked very hard - if not effectively - to work with Pres. Obama - but that he was surrounded (by infidels) - love the word infidels

    Cantor as speaker would be tragic - another good word

    haven't heard anything from Chris Christie on the debt crisis/fiscal cliff btw

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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    just read that Boehner told Harry Reid a thing or 2 in response to Harry's "word is out" on JB that he's a dictator

    With no bipartisan agreement about the debt ceiling, spending cuts and tax increases in sight, Boehner reportedly pointed at Reid and said, "Go fuck yourself."

    "What are you talking about?" Reid asked.

    And Boehner again said, "Go fuck yourself."
    Harry Reid is a piece of shit and if I saw him I would tell him to go fuck himself too - after tripping him of course and then laughing at him - then taking his wallet

    Boehner has his flaws but character analysis is not one of them

    Go JB

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2394725.html

  42. #292

    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    ^^^

    Boehner can tell McConnell to go "fuck himself too" as far as I'm concerned. McConnell participated in dividing the republicans in the House.

    I repeat, this was a stupid bill, it does nothing but raises taxes and most importantly kicks the can down the road again. The bill did nothing about the deficits. Obama is worthless as a leader -- he doesn't see the big picture, he just sees politics. Even Richard Nixon through all his faults saw the big picture.

    Obama broke his promise not to raise taxes on those under $250,000. Oops! It's ok, dear leader, the chosen one, the one we've been waiting for can do anything he wants.

    Yeah ... one more thing .... have a good vacation in Hawaii Mr. President. Any of the Obamallegiance concerned about the carbon footprint?

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    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Everybody loses in this game. Of course the house was offered spending cuts more than once but was too entrenched in the no new revenue concept that they gave a pass to very worthwhile changes.

    Still kicking the can but EVERYBODY has the perception that the reason the can is kicked is because of republicans. Just consider that they gave on a increase in taxes after twenty years of standing against tax increases and all they got for contrition was exactly nothing YET they were offered plenty. What an embarrassing lack of leadership from the GOP.

    See how that works Jack? One can pretend that compromise means the other failed all day long but guess what happens when they fail? We all lose.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    haven't heard anything from Chris Christie on the debt crisis/fiscal cliff btw
    No word on the cliff deal but he did lay the failure to pass Sandy Relief squarely on Boehners plate along with the obstructionalist republican majority in the house. (Paraphrased from his words not mine.)

    The sad thing is ALL of us are onto these freaking clowns (both red and blue) and we as a nation know the things that need to occur. So elected leaders... get to fucking work.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  45. #295

    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    When is Obama going to sign the bill passed last night by the House?

    Will he wait until he gets back from vacation?

  46. #296

    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Everybody loses in this game. Of course the house was offered spending cuts more than once but was too entrenched in the no new revenue concept that they gave a pass to very worthwhile changes.

    Still kicking the can but EVERYBODY has the perception that the reason the can is kicked is because of republicans. Just consider that they gave on a increase in taxes after twenty years of standing against tax increases and all they got for contrition was exactly nothing YET they were offered plenty. What an embarrassing lack of leadership from the GOP.

    See how that works Jack? One can pretend that compromise means the other failed all day long but guess what happens when they fail? We all lose.
    All Americans got screwed last night and not the good kind of screwing.

    We dug ourselves deeper into bankruptcy. It's all about politics and getting elected -- not about what's good for the country.

  47. #297
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    All Americans got screwed last night and not the good kind of screwing.

    We dug ourselves deeper into bankruptcy. It's all about politics and getting elected -- not about what's good for the country.
    This may possibly be the first thing I've seen you say that seemed reasonable and not irrationally steeped in one-sided reasoning. And I agree insofar as what's been going on is entirely not about what's best for the country.

  48. #298
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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Quick question: governments don't cut spending, they cut services. What services, if any, is it currently performing that are not worth doing?

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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    Quick question: governments don't cut spending, they cut services. What services, if any, is it currently performing that are not worth doing?
    That's exactly what Obama has said multiple times. It's one thing to just bitch about spending in a vaccuum as if money just flies out the door and goes to absolutely nothing. When you actually talk about what needs to be cut to reduce spending even Republicans don't want to attach their names to suggesting anything. I haven't even seen the Republicans here in CE&P mention anything but some elements of defense.

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    Re: Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    All Americans got screwed last night and not the good kind of screwing.

    We dug ourselves deeper into bankruptcy. It's all about politics and getting elected -- not about what's good for the country.
    I still prefer to think of it as a three part plan. I know... LORD do I know that republicans on here are loathe to give any credit or admit anything has ever gone right in the last four years BUT the last debt ceiling debacle was solved by making 1 trillion in spending cuts. The next obstacle where the obstinate parties HAD to make a decision was on the first and the republicans caved for tax increases. NOT the increases we need entirely because that will come from tax reform. However it was a step in the right direction.

    The next deal will be republicans playing with the world economy for as long as they dare and potentially killing our markets if you follow Lyndsey Graham. I predict the democrats will make an offer that has cuts but includes more tax increases. Then the republicans will balk at a good deal and end up with a shit deal after they have ruined the worlds economies. All the while making a very strong case to the world that we are too irresponsible to be the worlds currency.

    All the ire and anger and mean words you can type doesnt change the fact that we need to cut spending and already have... and we need to cut more and raise more revenue. Cutting services is not an issue that will be widely discussed.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


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