Getting Closer To A Fiscal Cliff Deal

[chance1]

Latest info on a deal is as follows:

revenue and spending cuts equivalent - $1.2T each
two stimulus measures
put the debt limit fight off for two years
$250K definition of rich moved to $400K
itemized deductions not to exceed 28%

Obama did not give in on extending age to 67 on Medicare
There's more - take a look

I think it's good news

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2319075.html

[JayHawk]

It all sounds very reasonable. Which means there is no way on planet earth republicans will agree.

hey look I gained something from your posting... although I read that earlier and was looking for the debt cliff thread to post it in... couldn't find the rascally thing.

[chance1]

It's clear that I'm invaluable

and i imagine u were distracted from the NRA death march of a thread ......... that's a yolk

boehner is from the same hometown as my ex - who says he is actually not a terrible guy - boehner not my ex that is

so i think it'll happen

but i am a glass half full kinda guy

i give obama credit for loosening the vice

[JayHawk]

I always knew Obama would. He was juts raked over the coals every time he was adult in private with republicans they would then start the public negotiation after they had wrangled what they could in private. He learns, quickly.

I sincerely hope the gun control bill and the fight there of does not consume his second term. We desperately need an immigration bill.

[scream4ever]

^^^Not to mention ENDA as well.

[chance1]

don't forget JOBS !!!!!

[JayHawk]

Nah. Presidents have little to nothing to do with jobs. Except when they spend on a credit card and run up huge deficits or allow partisan terrorist to pretend to default on our good name as a country.

As far as ENDA??? Sure as a third or fourth tier item... not at the top of the pops.

[Kulindahr]

I'd rather he'd gone to $320k rather than $400.

If he marshals his arguments right and appeals to the people, this should go. Then if he gets his scholarship right on the Second Amendment, large clips can be gotten off the street, though there'd have to be a phase-in period to meet the protections (see my explanation in the thread about what the Second Amendment means).

Then immigration....

[cgymike]

What immigration? WTF are you talking about?

[HenryReardon]

. We desperately need an immigration bill.

Really? Why don't we start by enforcing existing immigration laws rigorously. Get a handle on things before doing anything else.

[Jack Springer]

Did Obama blink?

[JayHawk]

What immigration? WTF are you talking about?

Read the whole thread. Actually listening to all the words provides a contrast that can allow you to understand the conversation.

Really? Why don't we start by enforcing existing immigration laws rigorously. Get a handle on things before doing anything else.

A deal would include making a reasonable approach to immigration. Instead of a high demand and a lack of desire to enforce because the people who want the immigrants in their businesses are also the ones putting folks into office. You didn't happen to notice the housing boom that was predicated on bad loans due to weak regulations was also in part due to extremely cheap labor? Please try to use both of your eyes when looking around for things to hate and blame for your situation.

Did Obama blink?

Well of course, Obama has always negotiated as you well know. The funny thing is Boehner firing republicans and trying to establish some control over a treasonous party that wont allow America to honor its debts and take care of the mess it created.

[HenryReardon]

A deal would include making a reasonable approach to immigration. Instead of a high demand and a lack of desire to enforce because the people who want the immigrants in their businesses are also the ones putting folks into office. You didn't happen to notice the housing boom that was predicated on bad loans due to weak regulations was also in part due to extremely cheap labor? Please try to use both of your eyes when looking around for things to hate and blame for your situation.

.

Extremely cheap labor? Not in construction. Talk to a few people who've hired those day laborers hanging around intersections or Home Depot parking lots. Nothing cheap about them at all.

I have news for you: disagreement does not equal hate. Get over it.

"blame for my situation?" Hardly that. I have worked since I was still in high school, and live in a comfortable home in the country which has never had a mortgage on it. My situation is just fine, thank you very much.

- - - Updated - - -

.


Well of course, Obama has always negotiated as you well know. .

Obama negotiated well? LOL Obama's idea of negotiation seems to be "My way or the highway."

[JayHawk]

Extremely cheap labor? Not in construction. Talk to a few people who've hired those day laborers hanging around intersections or Home Depot parking lots. Nothing cheap about them at all.

I have news for you: disagreement does not equal hate. Get over it.

"blame for my situation?" Hardly that. I have worked since I was still in high school, and live in a comfortable home in the country which has never had a mortgage on it. My situation is just fine, thank you very much.

I owned a bunch of those homes so I don't have to talk to a soul. I know how much hiring a legal construction worker versus a illegal contracted thru and legal source. What I find is amazing it you trust to make your final decisions on assumptions from someone you once talked to who maybe had some work done by some guy at home depot. Ignorance knows no bounds.

Enjoy your fully paid for house in the bog. Awful defensive aren't we.

[HenryReardon]

Enjoy your fully paid for house in the bog. Awful defensive aren't we.

Hardly that. And ten acres on the highest hill in the county is hardlyl a bog.
When Obama's class warefare and continued destruction of the economy causes the cities to implode, we will survive.

[HenryReardon]

. I know how much hiring a legal construction worker versus a illegal contracted thru and legal source. What I find is amazing it you trust to make your final decisions on assumptions from someone you once talked to who maybe had some work done by some guy at home depot. .

"Some guy at Home Depot?" You're a laugh riot, not to mention totally ignorant of the facts on the ground.

[JayHawk]

Hardly that. And ten acres on the highest hill in the county is hardlyl a bog.
When Obama's class warefare and continued destruction of the economy causes the cities to implode, we will survive.

"Some guy at Home Depot?" You're a laugh riot, not to mention totally ignorant of the facts on the ground.

See if you possessed basic reading comprehension skills you would understand that 'your situation' has nothing to do with your home. yet that is what you opted to immediately defend. So must be a sore spot with you and for that i am sorry.

The facts on the ground are if you live in a poor rural neighborhood then you are likely the only human being on earth who thinks immigrant labor is costly in comparison to tax paying citizen labor.

[palemale]

Hardly that. And ten acres on the highest hill in the county is hardlyl a bog.
When Obama's class warefare and continued destruction of the economy causes the cities to implode, we will survive.

Obama is destroying the economy? I must be reading the wrong newspapers. I was under the impression that the economy has actually improved since Bush left office and Obama took over.

[HenryReardon]

The facts on the ground are if you live in a poor rural neighborhood then you are likely the only human being on earth who thinks immigrant labor is costly in comparison to tax paying citizen labor.

The facts on the ground are that I have been in the private practice of accounting, and had clients who were contractors.
I know what they paid for legitimate labor, and I know what they wanted to pay in cash to available casual labor. It was always
a struggle to convince them that as far as the IRS is concerned, there is almost no such thing as "casual labor." Those guys standing at corners looking for day labor are what the IRS refers to as "common law employees," and there's no getting around it.

"Poor rural neighborhood?" You're a laugh riot, and you know zip about Florida real estate.

[HenryReardon]

Obama is destroying the economy?:

Of course he is, just as fast as he can. Don't believe everything you read in the papers.
Look at unemployment.. The first thing the Obama adminstration did was to change the way the unemployed
are counted, so that he would look better.

I guess there's no use talking to the Obama Kool-Aid crowd.

[JayHawk]

The facts on the ground are that I have been in the private practice of accounting, and had clients who were contractors.
I know what they paid for legitimate labor, and I know what they wanted to pay in cash to available casual labor. It was always
a struggle to convince them that as far as the IRS is concerned, there is almost no such thing as "casual labor." Those guys standing at corners looking for day labor are what the IRS refers to as "common law employees," and there's no getting around it.

"Poor rural neighborhood?" You're a laugh riot, and you know zip about Florida real estate.

Oh your part of the debacle that was way over priced Florida real estate. Florida explains a lot, shitty home value, xenophobia, and for your information the majority of Florida is redneck swamp land. Been there holding my nose many a time.

Of course he is, just as fast as he can. Don't believe everything you read in the papers.
Look at unemployment.. The first thing the Obama adminstration did was to change the way the unemployed
are counted, so that he would look better.

I guess there's no use talking to the Obama Kool-Aid crowd.

Hmmm so show us proof Obama change the independent labor statistics since that idea was investigated and excoriated as ignorant and bearing absolutely zero credibility during the election.

[JayHawk]

BTW Reardon this thread is about the fiscal cliff. Two members (Kuli and myself) Remarked on immigration because that is the biggest issue in America long term. So please feel free to get on topic. I know I said the word immigration so you feel the need to insert already debunked lies about Obama and xenophobic views on immigrants to this country BUT the topic is the fiscal cliff... have you any input on the topic? Do you like what your republican leadership is doing by accepting revenue and cutting the military?

[HenryReardon]

? Do you like what your republican leadership is doing by accepting revenue and cutting the military?

As far as I can tell the Republicans have no leadership, and they weren't my Republicans in any case.
If anything, the so-called leadership caved to Obama, as they always do in a crisis. The Republican party is
dead.

[HenryReardon]

Oh your part of the debacle that was way over priced Florida real estate. Florida explains a lot, shitty home value, xenophobia, and for your information the majority of Florida is redneck swamp land. Been there holding my nose many a time.

.

LOL The Everglades are not representative of Florida. Too funny.

[HenryReardon]

Hmmm so show us proof Obama change the independent labor statistics since that idea was investigated and excoriated as ignorant and bearing absolutely zero credibility during the election.

Try this article, which has plenty of links:

http://polination.wordpress.com/2012...t-under-obama/

[JayHawk]

LOL The Everglades are not representative of Florida. Too funny.

I dunno I have been from the abject poverty of Escambia County to the relative decency of the Keys and everything in between. You can keep them in your loverly house on the hill

As far as republicans the leadership they HAD was one that thought throwing America under the buss to achieve a one term Obama was a right way to think. They failed. They think everyone in America should own a semi automatic. They were wrong. They think immigrants are to self deport you know the immigrants WE wanted here to do low labor work in the rest of the country where wages are higher than Florida. They wanted no health care for Americans. yet now to defend their irrational stance on firearms they want mental health care for everyone because they need a scapegoat. They failed. Whats another of your republican leaderships greatest achievements? Oh yeah spending on two wars without raising the revenue to pay for that unequaled spending.

No people like yourself and your party owe a great deal of explanations for so many failed policies.

But now that America spoke hopefully they will at least roger up to pay for the bills they created. SO hopefully Boehner can strong arm the mentally challenged wing into a deal.

[JayHawk]

Try this article, which has plenty of links:

http://polination.wordpress.com/2012...t-under-obama/

In the first two sentences it says Obama changed nothing and that the rate as counted has been skewed since Clinton. Are you for real dude? That piece just affirms the numbers are accurate and then cries that things aren't better while giving a basic economics lesson to the ignorant concerning full employment.

[chance1]

Stocks moved up today based on positive news on the cliff

Read it on CNN money

Good news

Being functioning adults pays dividends

[JayHawk]

Being functioning adults pays dividends

Agreed. Although the market has been mostly unaffected this time around. Speculators realize they have no effect on congress and the instability in the market simply dissolves some of their electronic wealth... so the only net result is being less wealthy. Plus what is the down side? We came close to default last time and the credit rating was lowered and it really had no net effect except it makes us pay more money for our debt. I am sure the folks buying our debt really like that idea.

[Kulindahr]

See if you possessed basic reading comprehension skills you would understand that 'your situation' has nothing to do with your home. yet that is what you opted to immediately defend. So must be a sore spot with you and for that i am sorry.

The facts on the ground are if you live in a poor rural neighborhood then you are likely the only human being on earth who thinks immigrant labor is costly in comparison to tax paying citizen labor.

Just for some more anecdotal evidence....

I know two contractors here who were hiring people to supplement their crews at the rate of $12/hr. If they worked out and became permanent, they got $16/hr. If they were still around after a full year as permanent, they could jump to $20/hr.

Of course, no illegal ever got above that initial $12/hr.

[Kulindahr]

Obama is destroying the economy? I must be reading the wrong newspapers. I was under the impression that the economy has actually improved since Bush left office and Obama took over.

And would be doing better if the Republicans hadn't blocked bills that would have generated some five million jobs.

[Kulindahr]

Of course he is, just as fast as he can. Don't believe everything you read in the papers.
Look at unemployment.. The first thing the Obama adminstration did was to change the way the unemployed
are counted, so that he would look better.

I guess there's no use talking to the Obama Kool-Aid crowd.

The original Reardon wouldn't lie to make a point. He was a straight talker.

[Kulindahr]

As far as I can tell the Republicans have no leadership, and they weren't my Republicans in any case.
If anything, the so-called leadership caved to Obama, as they always do in a crisis. The Republican party is
dead.

For being dead, they've sure been lively enough to block legislation that would have generated jobs by helping small businesses.

[TX-Beau]

But they aren't Henry's republicans. I suppose he keep those in a little box under his bed.

[Kulindahr]

Try this article, which has plenty of links:

http://polination.wordpress.com/2012...t-under-obama/

Well, that article proves you wrong: it plainly states that it was Clinton who changed the rules. Bush continued to use the rules Clinton made, and Obama is still using them.

So in reality, Obama is just doing what has been the way things are done for two decades.

[Kulindahr]

Stocks moved up today based on positive news on the cliff

Read it on CNN money

Good news

Being functioning adults pays dividends

Let's hope Boehner can either gather enough functioning adults to make this deal fly with the Democrats or that he can hogtie the delinquents long enough to get the vote right.

I'm not thrilled with Obama's offer, but it's by God better than the hissing and whining that's been coming from the House.

[Kulindahr]

But they aren't Henry's republicans. I suppose he keep those in a little box under his bed.

If they're little lead painted ones, they're at least as toxic as the other kind.

[White Eagle]

It all sounds very reasonable. Which means there is no way on planet earth republicans will agree.

hey look I gained something from your posting... although I read that earlier and was looking for the debt cliff thread to post it in... couldn't find the rascally thing.

I got an email today asking to call Obama and tell him no deal cutting SS Medicare medicaid etc. But when I went to the link my antivirus said it wasn't a trusted site.
Probably someone phishing.

[JayHawk]

I got an email today asking to call Obama and tell him no deal cutting SS Medicare medicaid etc. But when I went to the link my antivirus said it wasn't a trusted site.
Probably someone phishing.

Yeah that sort of thing appears to be more active this time of year... Obama does not plan to cut SS or Medicare... although he could change CPI which would in effect cut projected growth of SS.

[TX-Beau]

I love that argument, if we raise taxes on rich people, poor people must simultaneously be deprived of health care.

Well, if we want to cut spending, I say cut homeland security first, there is no security when you die at 60 for lack of medication.

[JayHawk]

That was the largest increase in power and spending by the US government. It could easily be curtailed and save billions each year.

[TX-Beau]

Yeah because it's not the spending the pubs object to, it's the spending on the poor, who of course are worthless, shiftless, and quite possibly muslim, communist, sleepers who hate our freedom.

[maxpowr9]

Let's hope Boehner can either gather enough functioning adults to make this deal fly with the Democrats or that he can hogtie the delinquents long enough to get the vote right.

I'm not thrilled with Obama's offer, but it's by God better than the hissing and whining that's been coming from the House.

Already back to the drawing board. Obama rejected Bohner's plan.

[Jack Springer]

Looks like the House is going to vote on the Boehner/Pelosi bill and send it to the Senate where many of the dem Senators agreed last year to the $1 million and above increase in taxes.

Could be an embarrassing time for dem's and Obama if the Senate does or doesn't pass the bill. Depends on how the media spins it.

[TX-Beau]

Looks like the House is going to vote on the Boehner/Pelosi bill and send it to the Senate where many of the dem Senators agreed last year to the $1 million and above increase in taxes.

Could be an embarrassing time for dem's and Obama if the Senate does or doesn't pass the bill. Depends on how the media spins it.

...it's been such a long time....


ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL MEDIA!!!!!!!!!!



ARRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RUNNNNNNNN JACK, IT'S EATEN CAPITOL HILL!!!!!!

LOL yeah, it’s the liberal media’s fault that Jack lives in a fantasy of Democratic embarrassment over Republican obstruction.

[chance1]

Nancy is gonna throw in her pearls to help finance the deficit

Actually she says here she's on board with a deal that she doesn't love but is the right thing to do

Your move Mr. Boehner

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2324042.html

[TX-Beau]

Nancy is gonna throw in her pearls to help finance the deficit

One wonders if Babs will do the same.......

[HenryReardon]

Whatever congress does in this matter will amount to little more than placing a Band-Aid on a fatal wound.

[Kulindahr]

Whatever congress does in this matter will amount to little more than placing a Band-Aid on a fatal wound.

Not if they go with Obama's latest offer. It's "fair and balanced", and a fair step in the right direction. Will it solve everything? Hardly -- but it will improve things in a way that will show that things can actually be solved. That will give confidence, and an attitude suitable for doing more.

I hope that "more" will include the Republicans agreeing to pass the job bills they killed before -- that five million more jobs would be very welcome (though it will play hell with the unemployment figures, because more people will move from "discouraged" to "looking for work".

Weird, how adding a pile of jobs could actually increase the unemployment rate.

[HenryReardon]

Not if they go with Obama's latest offer. It's "fair and balanced", and a fair step in the right direction. Will it solve everything? Hardly -- but it will improve things in a way that will show that things can actually be solved. That will give confidence, and an attitude suitable for doing more.

.

That's too funny. Obama's offer is about as fair and balanced as Fox news. LOL

The man will never agree to seriously needed spending cuts.