JustUsBoys.com gay porn forum

logo

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 51 to 100 of 103
  1. #51
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Austin
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Open Relationship
    Posts
    8,618

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Regulating fantasies is pointless, as Clinton's ban proved. Feinstein is a loon because she thinks aesthetics matter in this debate -- because that's all the "assault weapon" things is: cosmetics.
    And the ability to get an assault rifle is already extremely tightly regulated: there are a set number of federal licenses for them, so the only way to get one is to convince someone with one of those licenses to sell his to you (lately they've been running over $100k a pop).
    Well OBVIOUSLY something is wrong in Denmark. Pull your head out of the sand. Your opinions are more doctrinaire than either Clinton or Feinstein and you are the one less willing to look at reality.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    You really think the Tea Party will be on board with changing the NICS system so people like the Arizona shooter will get blocked from getting firearms? with setting up a mental health infrastructure to help people before they get that bad? They don't trust government anyway; why do you think they'll be thrilled at trusting colleges and such with identifying students who are dangerous?
    Right, theyíd just try to put me in the loony bin, you too, those fuckers have no problem with huge government as long as itís doing what they tell it to. This is your personal fantasy, such a thing is impossible to implement, it would violate a whole bunch of rights, just because you personally have a gun fetish and have this bizarre idea that your gun is going to protect you from the people you elect.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Get a new crystal ball -- very few gun owners want "to feel like Rambo". If that were the case, with a hundred million gun owners in the country then you should be praising the way things work because there are so few outbreaks of violence.
    Every gun owner I've ever shot with has been careful and responsible. There's a fringe redneck element that aren't, who certainly aren't the majority.
    Yes, people drinking and having a loaded gun should be reported -- it should count the same as drinking and driving. The rule with people I've shot with has always been that when the first beer has been consumed, everything is put away. Training for such people would make a good part of a new Militia Act.
    Well bully fucking for you and the rarified company in which you travel. That insinuation that most gun owners are prudent people, careful and knowledgeable, and the suburban commando isnít ubiquitous is just bullshit, not to mention the fantasy that people will just blow away criminals like life is a Rambo movie is fucking laughable, and I think itís about time we called that for the shit that it is.

    You want to think life is an RPG game, fine, but you donít get to force that on the rest of us because it inspires in you some kind of vigilante fantasy.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    What's wrong with regulating firearms is that the emphasis is far more on penalizing the law-abiding than on actually keeping the wrong people from getting guns. That's evident just from the way the NICS works: gun dealers faced with someone just shown to be a felon by an instant check has no authority to take that person into custody; he gets to walk even though he just committed a crime. It's plain from that that the people making the rules aren't really interested in catching bad guys, they're interested in laws that sound good and accomplish little.
    Whatís wrong with regulating firearms is that this crazy got them from your law abiding lightly regulated citizen, and then he blew her away and a bunch of children as well.

    You can ignore and dance and obfuscate and toss verbiage but the fact remains Ė WE HAVE A COMPELLING INTEREST TO REGULATE FIREARMS!

    It's plain that the people insisting on weak rules aren't really interested in catching bad guys, they're interested in platitudes that sound good and accomplish little.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  2. #52
    JUB Addict andysayshi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Sydney
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Available
    Posts
    4,298

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    That's a good idea, too. But it still baffles me that it takes so long to get someone dangerous taken to somewhere for help.
    It's all about money. Mental health institutions are struggling to survive in the US because of poor funding.

    The issue is complicated because of the risk of litigation. If someone is incarcerated and then successfully sues the institution or doctors who authorised it, the settlements are usually in the millions. For institutions who can barely pay their electric bills, they take the cautious route to admitting people against their will.

    Mental health is a very, very costly business. Far more expensive than regulating guns.
    Last edited by andysayshi; December 18th, 2012 at 06:03 PM.

  3. #53
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,087
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    This is verifiably false. Any body who wants an assault rifle can buy one today, no questions asked, no background checks, no license confirmation required. Anybody.

    Jeff Rossen of the Today Show did a story in February highlighting his own investigation. Within 12 hours of answering online advertisements Crossen managed to purchase eight guns. It was all perfectly legal.

    He bought a tactical assault rifle with ammunition, a Glock-23 with hollow point bullets, a tactical shotgun, and a 50-caliber sniper rifle with a 5 mile range, capable of piercing armoured vehicles or shooting down a helicopter.

    I repeat, neither Rossen nor the gun sellers broke the law, even though Rossen told several of the sellers that "he probably wouldn't pass a background check".

    New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg conducted his own investigation and had similar results. His buyers legally purchased various high powered weapons and handguns in 14 states, even after the buyers advised the sellers they could not pass a background check.

    http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/463164.../#.UNEKDY7bKf8
    If you really think that, I invite you to try buying one. The experience in prison should be enlightening.

    Definition:

    An assault rifle is a select-fire (either fully automatic or burst capable) rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine. It is not to be confused with assault weapons.[1] Assault rifles are the standard service rifles in most modern armies. Assault rifles are categorized in between light machine guns, which are intended more for sustained automatic fire in a light support role, and submachine guns, which fire a pistol cartridge rather than a rifle cartridge.

    Source Link (added by moderator): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle
    Assault rifles were covered in the Firearms Act of 1934, as restricted weapons which had to be registered with the government. The restrictions were changed somewhat in 1968 to fix a constitutional hole, and as of 1986 with the Firearms Owners' Protections Act all transfers of assault rifles between citizens was banned except for such weapons already in the hands of citizens.


    As for Rossen, anyone who thinks there's such a thing as a "semiautomatic assault rifle" has severely impaired credibility, because he doesn't know what he's talking about.

    And his experiment: this is why the NRA strongly recommends that all sellers make use of the NICS to do background checks. It's something they fought hard in Congress to make possible, because the original NICS system was accessible only to FFL holders. Now, thanks to the NRA, if I want to sell one of my firearms, I can ask for ID and make a call to the NICS; I can even download the forms the FFL folks use, to make the NICS process easier.
    Last edited by opinterph; December 18th, 2012 at 07:48 PM. Reason: added source link; Refer to CE&P Posting Guidelines

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  4. #54
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,087
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    Well OBVIOUSLY something is wrong in Denmark. Pull your head out of the sand. Your opinions are more doctrinaire than either Clinton or Feinstein and you are the one less willing to look at reality.
    I love the way you call factual information "opinions", and refer to ignorance as a matter of looking at reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    Right, they’d just try to put me in the loony bin, you too, those fuckers have no problem with huge government as long as it’s doing what they tell it to. This is your personal fantasy, such a thing is impossible to implement, it would violate a whole bunch of rights, just because you personally have a gun fetish and have this bizarre idea that your gun is going to protect you from the people you elect.
    Now you sound like a Tea Partite: you don't want to care for your fellow citizens or take steps for public safety because you're afraid they'll come after you. Heck, by the argument I could call for ending the whole Homeland Security thing, shutting down the FBI, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    Well bully fucking for you and the rarified company in which you travel. That insinuation that most gun owners are prudent people, careful and knowledgeable, and the suburban commando isn’t ubiquitous is just bullshit, not to mention the fantasy that people will just blow away criminals like life is a Rambo movie is fucking laughable, and I think it’s about time we called that for the shit that it is.
    Life is proof that you're wrong: yesterday, ninety million gun owners didn't go out to act like Rambo. Last year, ninety million gun owners didn't go out to act like Rambo.

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    You want to think life is an RPG game, fine, but you don’t get to force that on the rest of us because it inspires in you some kind of vigilante fantasy.
    Your penchant for making shit up about people instead of reading their posts is disturbing.

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    What’s wrong with regulating firearms is that this crazy got them from your law abiding lightly regulated citizen, and then he blew her away and a bunch of children as well.

    You can ignore and dance and obfuscate and toss verbiage but the fact remains – WE HAVE A COMPELLING INTEREST TO REGULATE FIREARMS!

    It's plain that the people insisting on weak rules aren't really interested in catching bad guys, they're interested in platitudes that sound good and accomplish little.
    Except that all the regulation anyone proposes is feel-good crap that lets politicians claim they've "done something", but which in reality accomplish nothing at all -- like banning things that look scary.

    I'll ignore the lie you ended with.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  5. #55
    JUB Addict andysayshi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Sydney
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Available
    Posts
    4,298

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    You're arguing semantics and labels, but they do not change the facts.

    Both Rossen's and Bloomberg's investigations PROVE that almost anybody in the US can buy a military-grade gun without a background check in a matter of hours. The laws and systems you keep describing are either not working, being ignored, or not being adequately enforced. I visited my brother's wife's family in Texas in 2005, who had about ten various guns in their home, and they laughed when I asked them about regulation. Nobody in their house had ever submitted to a background check, and all their guns were purchased legally.

    What's more, the NRA have worked tirelessly for more than a decade to remove even MORE regulations than the ones you claim are working. All the (clearly toothless) regulations you've mentioned in this thread would be removed by the NRA in an instant if they were capable of it.

  6. #56
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,087
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    It's all about money. Mental health institutions are struggling to survive in the US because of poor funding.

    The issue is complicated because of the risk of litigation. If someone is incarcerated and then successfully sues the institution or doctors who authorised it, the settlements are usually in the millions. For institutions who can barely pay their electric bills, they take the cautious route to admitting people against their will.

    Mental health is a very, very costly business. Far more expensive than regulating guns.
    The sort of system we need isn't that expensive. Most of it could be manned by trained people without the spendy title of "psych"-something. Most of the time commitment isn't even involved: mere drop-in centers and houses of refuge such as I've described would accomplish a lot. Besides that, 72-hour holds can be quite effective.

    But that's beside the point of what the NRA lobbyist bitch got killed in Florida after the Arizona shooting: a simple tweak of the instant check system so people already found to be dangerous by a public institution could be flagged for refusal. That's one where the NRA needs to back down.

    On top of all that, we owe it to people with mental disabilities to help them anyway. These days, not a small number deliberately commit crimes because it's the only way they have to get into a safe place with meds supplied: jail. Dismissing what we ought to be doing anyway because it would cost more than a plan aimed primarily at penalizing law-abiding citizens is disgusting.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  7. #57
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Boystown, Chicago
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    8,930

    Code of Conduct
    I maintain that the 2nd Amendment either needs further amending, or a new Supreme Court ruling that narrows it down to what it actually says, instead of broadening Otto the meaningless "hey, let's have a cowboy state!"
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  8. #58
    JUB Addict andysayshi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Sydney
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Available
    Posts
    4,298

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Life is proof that you're wrong: yesterday, ninety million gun owners didn't go out to act like Rambo.
    Perhaps, but one did on Friday.

    Last year, ninety million gun owners didn't go out to act like Rambo.
    Actually, there's about 10,000 dead Americans who would argue that point. There were obviously a few "Rambos" on the loose last year.

    We don't regulate cars or drivers or builders or industries because of the law abiding majority. We regulate them because of the dangerous few.

  9. #59
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,087
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    You're arguing semantics and labels, but they do not change the facts.

    Both Rossen's and Bloomberg's investigations PROVE that almost anybody in the US can buy a military-grade gun without a background check in a matter of hours. The laws and systems you keep describing are either not working, being ignored, or not being adequately enforced. I visited my brother's wife's family in Texas in 2005, who had about ten various guns in their home, and they laughed when I asked them about regulation. Nobody in their house had ever submitted to a background check, and all their guns were purchased legally.

    What's more, the NRA have worked tirelessly for more than a decade to remove even MORE regulations than the ones you claim are working. All the (clearly toothless) regulations you've mentioned in this thread would be removed by the NRA in an instant if they were capable of it.
    You cite the "investigations" of a scofflaw formally rebuked by the US Dept. of Justice for interfering with ongoing operations, and rebuked by the government of several states for interfering with their jurisdictions?

    Anyone who was caught selling his licensed assault rifle would be caught within the year, because they have to report annually. Every last legal assault rifle in the country is known to the feds and is listed by model and serial number; if I understand the rules correctly, they have ballistic data on those weapons as well, and any bullet fired from one and found at a crime scene would be identified promptly. The holders of those licenses are a privileged elite who don't sell to just anyone; in fact selling means transferring the license. The cheapest of those guns is going to run you around $10k, BTW.

    There hasn't been an assault rifle used in a crime in the US for decades -- so the regulations are hardly "toothless".

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  10. #60
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Boystown, Chicago
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    8,930

    Code of Conduct
    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    We don't regulate cars or drivers or builders or industries because of the law abiding majority. We regulate them because of the dangerous few.
    It's what bothers me about the pro-gun no-restriction approach. It seems to be saying "well, the constitution says it's a right, so that's that. Dead kids don't change anything." A sort of hypocritical helplessness. "It's not that I think there should be no regulation, it's the constitution!"
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  11. #61
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,087
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    I maintain that the 2nd Amendment either needs further amending, or a new Supreme Court ruling that narrows it down to what it actually says, instead of broadening Otto the meaningless "hey, let's have a cowboy state!"
    You got one of those decisions in Heller, another in McDonald v. City of Chicago.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  12. #62
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,087
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    Perhaps, but one did on Friday.



    Actually, there's about 10,000 dead Americans who would argue that point. There were obviously a few "Rambos" on the loose last year.

    We don't regulate cars or drivers or builders or industries because of the law abiding majority. We regulate them because of the dangerous few.
    Cars are irrelevant -- there's no protected right to a car. Besides that, the regulations for cars are set by the people who own the roads, which is perfectly legitimate.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  13. #63
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Austin
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Open Relationship
    Posts
    8,618

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Kuli will insist on his version of "facts," people will get killed because of lax and ineffective regulation, Kuli will insist on his version of "facts," and around and around we go.

    The constitution obviously does not inform on this point, no matter what verbiage people toss at you that they insist is invincible - it's become what it has because the right has a fetish about this fantasy they have where they are like that 70's tv show guy who lived on the mountain with a bear. That's the real problem, thinking a gun solves one, one they made up for the gun to solve. That's also what they don't want to talk about. Ever.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  14. #64
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Austin
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Open Relationship
    Posts
    8,618

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    You got one of those decisions in Heller, another in McDonald v. City of Chicago.
    Neither of these is in the constitution - they are OPINIONS about it no more, no less.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  15. #65
    JUB Addict andysayshi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Sydney
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Available
    Posts
    4,298

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    You cite the "investigations" of a scofflaw formally rebuked by the US Dept. of Justice for interfering with ongoing operations, and rebuked by the government of several states for interfering with their jurisdictions?

    Anyone who was caught selling his licensed assault rifle would be caught within the year, because they have to report annually. Every last legal assault rifle in the country is known to the feds and is listed by model and serial number; if I understand the rules correctly, they have ballistic data on those weapons as well, and any bullet fired from one and found at a crime scene would be identified promptly. The holders of those licenses are a privileged elite who don't sell to just anyone; in fact selling means transferring the license. The cheapest of those guns is going to run you around $10k, BTW.

    There hasn't been an assault rifle used in a crime in the US for decades -- so the regulations are hardly "toothless".
    More semantics and diversion. The facts are the facts: Any US citizen can buy a military-capable firearm within a few hours in the US, without submitting to a background check.

    Whatever the laws may be, or are supposed to be, they are not preventing this from happening. And the NRA has fought hard to make those laws weaker or nonexistent for years and years.

    I really don't care about the semantics of what you consider to be an "assault rifle", and I doubt the parents of 20 children in Newtown care much either. The fact that a single mother felt her Government and a depressed economy were such an imminent threat to her life that she owned a small arsenal of lethal weapons, including a rifle that is basically an adapted M16 military weapon, tells me more than I want to know about US gun owners. Ironically, her protection ended up being much more dangerous than the economy. Sadly, her deluded fears cost many more lives than her own.

    Here's how Bushmaster advertised the gun that helped kill 27 people on Friday: as a "Man Card". To be a real man you need a big gun.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	bushmaster-ad1-600x450.jpg 
Views:	173 
Size:	67.0 KB 
ID:	908757

  16. #66
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Austin
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Open Relationship
    Posts
    8,618

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    But no Andy, the suburban commando is just a myth.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  17. #67
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,087
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    More semantics and diversion. The facts are the facts: Any US citizen can buy a military-capable firearm within a few hours in the US, without submitting to a background check.

    Whatever the laws may be, or are supposed to be, they are not preventing this from happening. And the NRA has fought hard to make those laws weaker or nonexistent for years and years.

    I really don't care about the semantics of what you consider to be an "assault rifle", and I doubt the parents of 20 children in Newtown care much either. The fact that a single mother felt her Government and a depressed economy were such an imminent threat to her life that she owned a small arsenal of lethal weapons, including a rifle that is basically an adapted M16 military weapon, tells me more than I want to know about US gun owners. Ironically, her protection ended up being much more dangerous than the economy. Sadly, her deluded fears cost many more lives than her own.

    Here's how Bushmaster advertised the gun that helped kill 27 people on Friday: as a "Man Card". To be a real man you need a big gun.
    You keep insisting on a lie as a fact.

    And that you would judge all ninety million or more gun owners on the basis of one says you're not interested in real conversation.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  18. #68
    JUB Addict andysayshi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Sydney
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Available
    Posts
    4,298

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    What lie is that? That I can buy a weapon in hours without a background check? Go tell Rossen and Bloomberg. THEY PROVED THEY CAN DO IT!

    I could get on a plane today in Sydney, fly to Arizona, and in less than 24 hours own a Bushmaster just like Mrs Lanza's.

    I think poor Mrs Lanza is indicative of the problem in the US. A women so deluded about the dangers of her Government, of the economy, and of her fellow countrymen, that she collected a cache of weaponry that was greater than what a soldier carries into a combat zone.

    Mrs Lanza didn't break the law. She didn't hurt anybody. She didn't mean anybody harm. But her insecurities and paranoia prompted her to own the very implements that would ultimately kill her. She was, in fact, the tool of her own destruction.

    What possible reason can a single mother, who lives on a suburban block, who doesn't hunt, and who has a troubled teenage son, possibly have to own a rifle capable of emptying its 30 round magazine in 30 seconds? What about her life justifies the ownership of such a lethal device?

    It has nothing to do with judging 90 million gun owners. It has everything to do with assessing a recurring, devastating problem that is not getting fixed, is not getting better, and is being enabled by the sorts of evasive arguments you keep making about "rights" and "laws" and "regulations".

  19. #69
    JUB Addict andysayshi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Sydney
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Available
    Posts
    4,298

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    A well written piece in the New Yorker today:

    So let’s state the plain facts one more time, so that they can’t be mistaken: Gun massacres have happened many times in many countries, and in every other country, gun laws have been tightened to reflect the tragedy and the tragic knowledge of its citizens afterward. In every other country, gun massacres have subsequently become rare. In America alone, gun massacres, most often of children, happen with hideous regularity, and they happen with hideous regularity because guns are hideously and regularly available.

    The people who fight and lobby and legislate to make guns regularly available are complicit in the murder of those children. They have made a clear moral choice: that the comfort and emotional reassurance they take from the possession of guns, placed in the balance even against the routine murder of innocent children, is of supreme value. Whatever satisfaction gun owners take from their guns—we know for certain that there is no prudential value in them—is more important than children’s lives. Give them credit: life is making moral choices, and that’s a moral choice, clearly made.

    All of that is a truth, plain and simple, and recognized throughout the world. At some point, this truth may become so bloody obvious that we will know it, too. Meanwhile, congratulate yourself on living in the child-gun-massacre capital of the known universe.
    Read more:
    http://www.newyorker.com/online/blog...#ixzz2FSw1OoSY



    And a nicely worded comment on the article's page - here's a snippet:

    I come from a family of hunters and military service members. I empathize - or did - with gun owners and second amendment supporters. You don't want to feel defenseless in your own home. I get it.

    But you know what? My kids don't want to feel defenseless in their own school. We've gone beyond the pale. Your right to own a weapon cannot trump our childrens' rights to the liberty and domestic tranquility that is afforded in our Constitution. It's reached the point of absurdity. And it's a violation of the social contract that makes our country and our freedoms so wonderful: what you do cannot impede upon my rights.

    The most recent assaults - Oregon, Colorado, Connecticut - remind me of the suicide bombings that plagued Israel in the 1990s - a person, loaded with explosives, blows him or herself up in the middle of a crowd, annihilating everyone around. If these recent murders had been bombings rather than shootings, I think the tenor of the debate right now would be radically different. We would not tolerate such acts of destruction in our country. We would do something.

    But the fact that these mass killings have involved legal weapons, rather than explosives, confuses the issue for some: "It's not the gun, it's the shooter..." Please. It's the fucking gun.
    Joe isn't the only conservative American changing his tune. I hope this is America's Dunblane or Port Arthur. I hope the US finally starts to fix this horrible, mindless, senseless problem.
    Last edited by andysayshi; December 18th, 2012 at 08:45 PM.

  20. #70
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,087
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    What lie is that? That I can buy a weapon in hours without a background check? Go tell Rossen and Bloomberg. THEY PROVED THEY CAN DO IT!
    They didn't prove what you and they claimed, that they could buy a military weapon.

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    I could get on a plane today in Sydney, fly to Arizona, and in less than 24 hours own a Bushmaster just like Mrs Lanza's.
    And do what with it? Commit a felony by trying to leave the state?

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    What possible reason can a single mother, who lives on a suburban block, who doesn't hunt, and who has a troubled teenage son, possibly have to own a rifle capable of emptying its 30 round magazine in 30 seconds? What about her life justifies the ownership of such a lethal device?
    That's a pretty slow rate of fire -- pretty much proves it wasn't any military weapon.

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    It has nothing to do with judging 90 million gun owners. It has everything to do with assessing a recurring, devastating problem that is not getting fixed, is not getting better, and is being enabled by the sorts of evasive arguments you keep making about "rights" and "laws" and "regulations".
    But you're not trying to assess anything so long as you can't even get your facts straight.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  21. #71
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,087
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    A well written piece in the New Yorker today:



    Read more:
    http://www.newyorker.com/online/blog...#ixzz2FSw1OoSY
    If you approve of that, then you should have no problem with being called pro-rape. Any politician who votes to make it hard for a citizen to get a handgun for defense has just as much taken the side of the rapist, and is pro-rape.

    So based on the "logic" of your article, calling Feinstein and Schumer "pro-rape" is just being honest.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  22. #72
    JUB Addict andysayshi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Sydney
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Available
    Posts
    4,298

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    They didn't prove what you and they claimed, that they could buy a military weapon.



    And do what with it? Commit a felony by trying to leave the state?



    That's a pretty slow rate of fire -- pretty much proves it wasn't any military weapon.



    But you're not trying to assess anything so long as you can't even get your facts straight.


    Once again, you completely ignore the reality and truth by obfuscating about semantics and categorizations. I don't care what you consider an "assault" weapon or a "military" weapon. You can call the 50 calibre fully automatic sniper rifle that Rossen purchased in Arizona during his investigation a Love Gun Of Peace, for all I care. But your disingenuous approach to this argument is plain to see.

  23. #73
    JUB Addict andysayshi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Sydney
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Available
    Posts
    4,298

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    If you approve of that, then you should have no problem with being called pro-rape. Any politician who votes to make it hard for a citizen to get a handgun for defense has just as much taken the side of the rapist, and is pro-rape.

    So based on the "logic" of your article, calling Feinstein and Schumer "pro-rape" is just being honest.
    By your own logic, then, you should have no problem being called "pro-school-shooting", as your own attitude is what enables events like last Friday's massacre. As it says in the New Yorker, congratulate yourself on living in the child-gun-massacre capital of the known universe.

  24. #74
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,087
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    By your own logic, then, you should have no problem being called "pro-school-shooting", as your own attitude is what enables events like last Friday's massacre. As it says in the New Yorker, congratulate yourself on living in the child-gun-massacre capital of the known universe.
    Except I've made proposals which would actually deal with school shootings, from arming teachers to flagging psychos into the NICS.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  25. #75
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Posts
    10,752

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Marvelously without content except stirring emotional images. People will take it as an endorsement of authoritarianism and believe he wants all the rigorous limitations statists drool over.

    The way forward is not to try to cripple the Second Amendment, but to use it.
    Kul this is like a sociologist accusing another of cultural bias. Short and to the point-- your entire side of the debate is also highly emotionally charged, with sweeping claims about oppressive government tyranny and other fear-based considerations.

    There is a rational, pragmatic middle ground between "we shouldn't have any weapons at all and live in utopia" and "everyone should be armed to the teeth out of terror that their government is out to get them." I would very much like to see you take some fair steps towards that middle ground with the rest of us.

  26. #76
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,087
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Kul this is like a sociologist accusing another of cultural bias. Short and to the point-- your entire side of the debate is also highly emotionally charged, with sweeping claims about oppressive government tyranny and other fear-based considerations.
    It's just a matter of listening for content. He didn't have any except generalities and platitudes. Obama turns out to have had more substance, in his speech.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  27. #77
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Boystown, Chicago
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    8,930

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Except I've made proposals which would actually deal with school shootings, from arming teachers to flagging psychos into the NICS.
    You seem overly confident those would "deal" with shootings. All I see is adding more violence to the mix (arming teachers, which by the way is VILE AND EVIL, just as an fyi), and pure fantasy (most "psychos" are not obvious until they crack).
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  28. #78
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,087
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    You seem overly confident those would "deal" with shootings. All I see is adding more violence to the mix (arming teachers, which by the way is VILE AND EVIL, just as an fyi), and pure fantasy (most "psychos" are not obvious until they crack).
    Can't count very well, I see.

    Shooter comes into school where no one is armed, just keeps killing kids until the cops get there, runs death toll towards thirty...

    Shooter comes into school, principal and teachers are armed, shooter kills two kids, gets taken out by an armed adult.


    Which has less violence? The one where armed citizens took out the bad guy.

    Which on is evil? The one where you just let kids die until the "official" non-protectors get there to clean up.



    As far as I'm concerned, anyone who opposes arming teachers is saying they'd rather watch kids die than trust people who care for those kids to protect them when it counts.


    As for your "psychos" comment, the point made in some Florida legislation that got crushes by Marion Hammer and her slimy lobbyists was that all the shooters in the last year or more have been noticed well beforehand as dangerous. In other words, they were "obvious" before they cracked.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  29. #79
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Boystown, Chicago
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    8,930

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Can't count very well, I see.

    Shooter comes into school where no one is armed, just keeps killing kids until the cops get there, runs death toll towards thirty...

    Shooter comes into school, principal and teachers are armed, shooter kills two kids, gets taken out by an armed adult.


    Which has less violence? The one where armed citizens took out the bad guy.

    Which on is evil? The one where you just let kids die until the "official" non-protectors get there to clean up.



    As far as I'm concerned, anyone who opposes arming teachers is saying they'd rather watch kids die than trust people who care for those kids to protect them when it counts.


    As for your "psychos" comment, the point made in some Florida legislation that got crushes by Marion Hammer and her slimy lobbyists was that all the shooters in the last year or more have been noticed well beforehand as dangerous. In other words, they were "obvious" before they cracked.
    I pick option 3 - Shooter never comes into the school because he never found a gun to shoot people with.

    To turn a country into a cowboy state is vile and evil, yes. And as was asked in a neighbor thread - where does it end? More guns will always equal more gun deaths. Statistics don't lie, and it isn't me that has trouble with counting, or we wouldn't be having an argument whether 10 000 is more than 40.

    And you could claim that all people with mental issues are identifiable beforehand, but it is an indefensible claim, so I refuse to argue about it.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  30. #80
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,087
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    To turn a country into a cowboy state....
    There's paranoia if I ever saw it. It shows me that your entire position is based on the paranoia that ordinary citizens can't be trusted. It's part of an attitude that thinks there's some kind of elite privileged with the capacity to make decisions for everyone else.

    Until violent crime drops to zero, disarming the law-abiding is gambling with innocent lives.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  31. #81
    JUB Addict andysayshi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Sydney
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Available
    Posts
    4,298

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    There's paranoia if I ever saw it. It shows me that your entire position is based on the paranoia that ordinary citizens can't be trusted.
    That's exactly how I see your position.

    Mrs Lanza is a perfect example of a paranoid woman who built an arsenal of weapons for fear of her fellow Americans, be they citizens or government. It turns out the most dangerous thing in her life was her own child and the weapons she'd gathered to protect (and entertain) him.

    Now 25 innocent families have paid a terrible price for her paranoia.

    Restricting guns is not about a paranoia of Americans. It about recognising that ALL people are emotional, passionate, mixed up beings, prone to make mistakes and bad judgements. Sometimes things get too heated, sometimes they are overpowered by emotion, or sickness, or depression, or drugs, or insanity.

    When those things go wrong and one of these people has access to a machine that is capable of raining rapid destruction on many lives in moments, we see carnage and devastation.

    You live in the USA, Kulindahr. Nobody will ever take away your guns. You know it and I know it. All anybody is asking for here is to place a sensible limit on how powerful those guns should be, and your ability to qualify as competent to safely own and operate a weapon. Neither requirement denies you your 2nd Amendment right, so long as you are competent and of sound mind.
    Last edited by andysayshi; December 20th, 2012 at 06:25 PM.

  32. #82
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Boystown, Chicago
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    8,930

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    There's paranoia if I ever saw it. It shows me that your entire position is based on the paranoia that ordinary citizens can't be trusted. It's part of an attitude that thinks there's some kind of elite privileged with the capacity to make decisions for everyone else.
    You say it's paranoia to think people can't be trusted with guns. I think it's paranoia to think people can't be trusted not to attack you. There is no "elite privileged", there are professionals. And then there are laws. And those professionals might not be there to save your life, but they are there to enforce those laws, and when they do that, your life doesn't need saving. YOU are the paranoid one here, not me. And refer to andy's post above mine, and this part in particular:
    Quote Originally Posted by andysayshi View Post
    Restricting guns is not about a paranoia of Americans. It about recognising that ALL people are emotional, passionate, mixed up beings, prone to make mistakes and bad judgements. Sometimes things get too heated, sometimes they are overpowered by emotion, or sickness, or depression, or drugs, or insanity.

    When those things go wrong and one of these people has access to a machine that is capable of raining rapid destruction on many lives in moments, we see carnage and devastation.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  33. #83
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,087
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    You say it's paranoia to think people can't be trusted with guns. I think it's paranoia to think people can't be trusted not to attack you. There is no "elite privileged", there are professionals. And then there are laws. And those professionals might not be there to save your life, but they are there to enforce those laws, and when they do that, your life doesn't need saving. YOU are the paranoid one here, not me. And refer to andy's post above mine, and this part in particular:
    Gee, wow. So my friends who got raped didn't need saving?

    What your view of the world would have me be right now is dead. If your utopian fantasy really worked, there would be no crime.

    The evidence says that tens of millions of people have guns, millions of them carry one every day, and they don't shoot anyone. The evidence also says that people get assaulted, raped, shot, and killed, and the laws just sit there, ink on the page, and the police show up afterward to clean up the mess. Neither laws nor police offer protection to people except statistically.

    My view is based on reality. Yours is based on the fantasy that writing a law will change the way criminals behave.

    What this really is, is an argument over who should die. Your position would have innocent people die because they're only protected statistically. Mine would give innocent people a fighting chance.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  34. #84
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Boystown, Chicago
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    8,930

    Code of Conduct
    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post

    Gee, wow. So my friends who got raped didn't need saving?

    What your view of the world would have me be right now is dead. If your utopian fantasy really worked, there would be no crime.

    The evidence says that tens of millions of people have guns, millions of them carry one every day, and they don't shoot anyone. The evidence also says that people get assaulted, raped, shot, and killed, and the laws just sit there, ink on the page, and the police show up afterward to clean up the mess. Neither laws nor police offer protection to people except statistically.

    My view is based on reality. Yours is based on the fantasy that writing a law will change the way criminals behave.

    What this really is, is an argument over who should die. Your position would have innocent people die because they're only protected statistically. Mine would give innocent people a fighting chance.
    Whatever. I'm tired of this. Be on the side that kills children if that's the price for your feeling safer.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  35. #85
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,087
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Whatever. I'm tired of this. Be on the side that kills children if that's the price for your feeling safer.
    But that's your side -- you're the one who doesn't want anyone to be there to stop the madman.

    This has nothing to do with feelings -- that you think so merely reveals that yours is an emotional position, not a rational one. Rationally, if there are going to be attacks in public places, then there must be people in public places ready to respond to those attacks. Since police neither can nor should be everywhere, that means the armed citizen.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  36. #86
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Boystown, Chicago
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    8,930

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    But that's your side -- you're the one who doesn't want anyone to be there to stop the madman.

    This has nothing to do with feelings -- that you think so merely reveals that yours is an emotional position, not a rational one. Rationally, if there are going to be attacks in public places, then there must be people in public places ready to respond to those attacks. Since police neither can nor should be everywhere, that means the armed citizen.
    I find it offensively cynical that you claim I want the children unprotected when it's YOUR beloved gun laws that got them killed. It's not just intellectually dishonest, it's also in incredibly bad taste.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  37. #87
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Boystown, Chicago
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    8,930

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    And what's even more demented is your illogical refusal to acknowledge the fact that without guns, the children wouldn't need so much protection in the first place.

    As proven by countries with strict gun control, where these things just don't happen. Another thing you're too afraid to address.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  38. #88
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,087
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    I find it offensively cynical that you claim I want the children unprotected when it's YOUR beloved gun laws that got them killed. It's not just intellectually dishonest, it's also in incredibly bad taste.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    And what's even more demented is your illogical refusal to acknowledge the fact that without guns, the children wouldn't need so much protection in the first place.

    As proven by countries with strict gun control, where these things just don't happen. Another thing you're too afraid to address.
    "Strict gun control" is what the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto submitted to...
    just before they were slaughtered.

    That nearly half of American voters went for Romney is warning enough. As the Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership say, "Never Again".

    To try to turn the US into just another country where there are no rights, only privileges, by taking away firearms would require a reign of terror that would turn most non-owners into supporters of their fellow citizens instead of the then-illegitimate government.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  39. #89
    JUB Addict andysayshi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Sydney
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Available
    Posts
    4,298

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Nobody thinks the US will ever have to give up all their guns. The police or army are never going to jackboot their way into your home and take your guns, no matter how much you try to dramatise your stance. Their will never be gun restrictions in the US like there are in countries like Australia or Britain.

    But do you truly believe that limiting the size and capacity of weapons in the US is wrong? Do you truly believe that a suburban mother has the necessity for a modified M-15 military weapon in her home?

  40. #90
    Banned chance1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NYC
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    21,386

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Donny Deutsch of all people on Morning Joe said

    "gun control" is a terrible term

    it should be "assault weapon control"

    for those who don't know, DD is a former big shot advertising executive

    an insufferable pompous ass boor

    but here he's right

  41. #91
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,087
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    Donny Deutsch of all people on Morning Joe said

    "gun control" is a terrible term

    it should be "assault weapon control"
    . . . .
    but here he's right
    Which in reality would mean "guns that scare us control" -- all that "assault weapon" means is "it looks scary!"

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  42. #92
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Austin
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Open Relationship
    Posts
    8,618

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    So, there is no difference apparently between my antique lever action Winchester that my dad gave me and an AK-47.

    Good to know.
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  43. #93
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,087
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    So, there is no difference apparently between my antique lever action Winchester that my dad gave me and an AK-47.

    Good to know.
    You mean the market version of the AK? If so, you're right.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  44. #94
    FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE! TX-Beau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Austin
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Open Relationship
    Posts
    8,618

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    .....Bullshit.....
    ATTACK OF THE LIBERAL ELITE

  45. #95
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,087
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    .....Bullshit.....
    One of the guys in the Pink Pistols brought an AK once. With my level-action .22 mag, I could fire just about as fast as he could. If selecting consecutive individuals targets, I kept up.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  46. #96
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Jawja
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    21,779
    Blog Entries
    14

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    With my level-action .22 mag,
    Did you mean lever-action?

  47. #97
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,087
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    Did you mean lever-action?
    Oops.

    I must be tired for my proofreading to miss that (not that it takes uch to be tired at this time of year; my body would have me sleeping twelve hours a day, hibernating, if I let it).

    Learning to do that rate of fire with a lever action isn't easy, but once you get the trick it isn't hard to do.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  48. #98
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Jawja
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    21,779
    Blog Entries
    14

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Learning to do that rate of fire with a lever action isn't easy, but once you get the trick it isn't hard to do.
    I've heard of individuals who could product astonishing rate of fire from bolt-action rifles, such as the Lee-Enfield; however, I wonder if the barrel of a .22 mag can withstand the heat generated from rapid fire.

  49. #99
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Posts
    10,752

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    One of the guys in the Pink Pistols brought an AK once. With my level-action .22 mag, I could fire just about as fast as he could. If selecting consecutive individuals targets, I kept up.
    We're not seriously making the supposition that a mentally disturbed teenager is going to successfully kill as many people with a handgun as a weapon he can spray sustained fire with, are we?

  50. #100
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,087
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Joe Scarborough reverses his stance on gun control

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    We're not seriously making the supposition that a mentally disturbed teenager is going to successfully kill as many people with a handgun as a weapon he can spray sustained fire with, are we?
    What are you talking about, "sustained fire"? A handgun shoots one bullet per pull of the trigger. A rifle shoots one bullet per pull of the trigger.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | About JustUsBoys.com | Site Map | RSS | Webmasters | Advertise | Link to JUB | Report A Bug on this Page

Visit our sister sites: Broke Straight Boys | CollegeDudes.com | CollegeBoyPhysicals.com | RocketTube
All models appearing on JustUsBoys.com were over 18 at the time of photography. The records for sexually explicit images required by U.S. 2257 are kept by the
individual producers of the images. The location of the records is available by clicking the Custodian of Records link at the bottom of each gallery page.
© 2012 JustUsBoys.com. The JustUsBoys.com name and logo are registered trademarks. Labeled with ICRA and RTA. Member of ASACP and The Free Speech Coalition.