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  1. #401
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Yes. If gun crime is higher in a place with strict limitations on ownership and use, and the excuse for that crime is that the guns flow in from next door, it stands to reason that next door should have even more gun crime, since guns are freely available.

    What the contrasting data indicate is that when firearms are tightly restricted, criminals feel freer to use theirs because they know it gives them serious advantage.
    There is no disputing the evidence that lack of access for anyone and gun deaths drop to nothing. The problem we have is fifty different states with fifty different laws. The constitution does say the states are forbidden to make laws that affect other states. Hmmmmm.

    In any event all of the "other" state laws are a mute point until the show loophole is closed. Why would I have a background check and a waiting period in New York when i can just go to a show and buy four hundred semi automatics that day and drive home???

    Finally, I heard to day the data base for background checks is not kept up to date very well. That is yet another thing where a collective effort and funding could resolve the issue. Unfortunately it takes common sense and funding. Since republicans lack common sense and abhor paying for what they vote to spend money on the idea that we can augment such a background system is laughable.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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  2. #402
    stop the bullshit rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Now that cattle are no longer run in herds, it is extremely rare for livestock to break their legs in prairie dog burrows. As long as cattle are permitted to see where they are going, they easily avoid burrows. Many ranchers scoff at this rural fable.
    ^^^ As well, maybe the time has come when domestic cattle shouldn't be the only creature ravaging the entire countryside and displacing all the natural inhabitants...
    Last edited by rareboy; December 17th, 2012 at 12:32 PM.

  3. #403
    JubberClubber White Eagle's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    There is no disputing the evidence that lack of access for anyone and gun deaths drop to nothing. The problem we have is fifty different states with fifty different laws. The constitution does say the states are forbidden to make laws that affect other states. Hmmmmm.

    In any event all of the "other" state laws are a mute point until the show loophole is closed. Why would I have a background check and a waiting period in New York when i can just go to a show and buy four hundred semi automatics that day and drive home???

    Finally, I heard to day the data base for background checks is not kept up to date very well. That is yet another thing where a collective effort and funding could resolve the issue. Unfortunately it takes common sense and funding. Since republicans lack common sense and abhor paying for what they vote to spend money on the idea that we can augment such a background system is laughable.
    Since you mentioned gun show, we had one last weekend and another one is planned for next weekend. Of course in another county.
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    There is no disputing the evidence that lack of access for anyone and gun deaths drop to nothing. .
    Oh, but there is evidence that lack of access is effective.

    Someone posted a Harvard study earlier, perhaps you missed it:


    Harvard Study shows gun control no help


    http://theacru.org/acru/harvard_stud...terproductive/

    Harvard Study: Gun Control Is Counterproductive

  5. #405
    stop the bullshit rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    To be blunt, I have to think that if the Founding fathers had ever envisioned a gun that could fire 100 rapid rounds, they would have probably qualified their whole 'arms' thing.

    At the time the 2nd ammendment was drafted, there was still the fear (as later realized in the war of 1812) that Britain might still try and re-take the colonies....and that the noble farmers with their flintlocks, and rifles would beat back any invaders.





    I think that if one demonstrated the kind of firearms that mowed down all the children and told the Founders that their nation would be riddled with people who would be so afraid, not of the invader from without, but the invader within...that they surely would have wept.

  6. #406
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Oh, but there is evidence that lack of access is effective.

    Someone posted a Harvard study earlier, perhaps you missed it:


    Harvard Study shows gun control no help


    http://theacru.org/acru/harvard_stud...terproductive/

    Harvard Study: Gun Control Is Counterproductive
    TEN THOUSAND gun deaths in the US .... 42 in West Germany. Lack of access works especially if we are to limit health care access and reduce funds spent on mental health services. If you dont wanna pay for crazies then the guns gotta go... basic easy to follow position. I know you can keep up.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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  7. #407
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    To be blunt, I have to think that if the Founding fathers had ever envisioned a gun that could fire 100 rapid rounds, they would have probably qualified their whole 'arms' thing.

    At the time the 2nd ammendment was drafted, there was still the fear (as later realized in the war of 1812) that Britain might still try and re-take the colonies....and that the noble farmers with their flintlocks, and rifles would beat back any invaders.





    I think that if one demonstrated the kind of firearms that mowed down all the children and told the Founders that their nation would be riddled with people who would be so afraid, not of the invader from without, but the invader within...that they surely would have wept.
    Yes they even proposed a limitation of 5,000 men for a standing army. George Washington laughed and said they could do that as long as they mandated in the Constitution that invading armies may only consist of 3000 men. Of ocurse Washington was a federalist. He would have been a democrat had he lived now....
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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  8. #408
    stop the bullshit rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    ^^ Honestly JH. I don't know why you even bother.

    Anyone who can't look at the stats from around the world, extrapolate for population numbers and draw a reasonable conclusion isn't worth banging our heads on the table over. We aren't going to convince Rearden. On anything.
    Last edited by rareboy; December 17th, 2012 at 01:51 PM.

  9. #409
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Oh sometimes I just say it to get the info out there. Not to get into other posters but there are five people who post in CEP who will never change their minds no matter what the evidence and one in particular who simple argues to argue regardless of what his personal opinion is on the issues.

    I continue to argue various points because I know two things....

    1)Lurkers read the info and are trying to make a decision without joining the fray
    2) Kuli will always return to this thread because it involves guns and he actually will change his position when offered a preponderance of different information. I realize it is highly unlikely he will ever alter his gun views but the conversation is what is important.

    well okay three things...
    3) I got no where else to go...

    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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  10. #410
    Bammer's Papa
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    To be blunt, I have to think that if the Founding fathers had ever envisioned a gun that could fire 100 rapid rounds, they would have probably qualified their whole 'arms' thing.
    They probably would have added an amendment forbidding the government from having a standing army.

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    At the time the 2nd ammendment was drafted, there was still the fear (as later realized in the war of 1812) that Britain might still try and re-take the colonies....and that the noble farmers with their flintlocks, and rifles would beat back any invaders.
    But they also discussed the concern that any central government would head toward the sort of arbitrary power that GB fell into.

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    I think that if one demonstrated the kind of firearms that mowed down all the children and told the Founders that their nation would be riddled with people who would be so afraid, not of the invader from without, but the invader within...that they surely would have wept.
    Really? Because they discussed these very things. They seriously didn't want the central government to have an army, but only to be able to call up those of the several states. And they may have looked at the monstrous size and intrusiveness of what we've made of their attempt at limited government and wondered why the citizens ever stopped having the latest in military arms in their homes.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  11. #411
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Really? Because they discussed these very things. They seriously didn't want the central government to have an army, but only to be able to call up those of the several states. And they may have looked at the monstrous size and intrusiveness of what we've made of their attempt at limited government and wondered why the citizens ever stopped having the latest in military arms in their homes.


    Please demonstrate from historical record where they discussed the lack of morals in a society that would allow the mentally sick to possess weapons and mow down children.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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  12. #412
    In Loving Memory palbert's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    And while we sling brick-a-bats at each other we can start doing something.

    Go to www.demandaplan.org and sign the petition to Congress and the White House to start doing something about gun violence.

  13. #413
    JUB Addict andysayshi's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    It's already happening. The law school at the University of Chicago did a study a while back and concluded that law enforcement today is about manufacturing criminals more than capturing them. It's not uncommon for cops to arrest someone and concoct a reason later. More and more judges are former DAs more interested in locking people up than in truth. And then there's the "Patriot" Act. which makes it possible for the FBI to detain someone merely on the declaration of suspicion of involvement in terrorist activities -- no warrant needed -- among other things.

    To top it off, most the the remaining WWII veterans around here agree with the observation of one, that what they see in law enforcement these days is what they went to Germany to fight against.
    You are about 500 times more likely to be killed by a civilian with a gun in the US than by a police officer. And if you don't break the law, that number becomes 5000 times more likely.

    But if you're a US citizen who owns a gun, you are most at risk from yourself. More than half of US gun deaths are self inflicted.

    If you were a woman and your partner owned a gun, you would also be around a thousand times more likely to be killed by that partner than by a policeman.

  14. #414
    Booyah! Callum's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    An intriguing read:

    Penn Study Asks, Protection or Peril? Gun Possession of Questionable Value in an Assault

    PHILADELPHIA In a first-of its-kind study, epidemiologists at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine found that, on average, guns did not protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault. The study estimated that people with a gun were 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not possessing a gun....
    Link/cont'd

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    I'd prefer to surrender to Canada, but... sure.
    Pretty sure Canada could only annex Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont. That's the extent of our military power.
    blacksyringe

  15. #415
    JUB Addict andysayshi's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    TEN THOUSAND gun deaths in the US .... 42 in West Germany. Lack of access works especially if we are to limit health care access and reduce funds spent on mental health services. If you dont wanna pay for crazies then the guns gotta go... basic easy to follow position. I know you can keep up.
    Just for clarification - that's 10,000 HAND GUN deaths in the US. There are around 30,000 gun deaths in the US each year, 10,000 by hand guns. Around 15,000 deaths are suicides.

  16. #416
    JUB Addict andysayshi's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    There is overwhelming evidence that reducing gun ownership reduces gun deaths and gun crime. When asked to prove otherwise, there is scant evidence that can be proffered by gun advocates. I'm tired of posting statistics in threads like this.

    One overriding logic prevails: if guns make people safer, why is the most heavily armed citizenry in the world also one of the most dangerous? If guns make people safer, why does the US have more gun deaths than any other industrialised nation?

  17. #417
    Booyah! Callum's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by JockBoy87 View Post
    Did the study say why?
    No. The study does not conclude why they're more likely to be shot in return, just presents a statistical likelihood from gun assaults between 2003-2006 in Philadelphia.
    blacksyringe

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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    TEN THOUSAND gun deaths in the US .... 42 in West Germany. Lack of access works especially if we are to limit health care access and reduce funds spent on mental health services. If you dont wanna pay for crazies then the guns gotta go... basic easy to follow position. I know you can keep up.
    You won't like the source, but here's a report that says Europe is on a par with the US in terms of mass shootings.

    http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Lot...o_code=111C9-1

  19. #419
    Halleluja! chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Does this make the victims of Newtown any less dead?

  20. #420
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by JockBoy87 View Post
    I did not find this article in my school library

  21. #421
    Suck my dick, Scalia! FuryOfFirestorm's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group


  22. #422
    Halleluja! chrisrobin's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by JockBoy87 View Post
    My favorite unaccompanied words in an essay: this, it, he, she, they, stuff, and things.
    a report that says Europe is on a par with the US in terms of mass shootings.
    or posting such information...

  23. #423

    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    If it is found out that the shooter was high on pot or any other drug. Do we ban all "recreational drugs" forever?

  24. #424
    Booyah! Callum's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    If it is found out that the shooter was high on pot or any other drug. Do we ban all "recreational drugs" forever?
    No. What if the killer is a homosexual? Do we criminalize homosexuality?

    Geez, such logic is mind-boggling.
    blacksyringe

  25. #425
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    You won't like the source, but here's a report that says Europe is on a par with the US in terms of mass shootings.

    http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Lot...o_code=111C9-1
    Well how about we forget the source and realize when you look at the information the good Dr. cherry picks a few large incidents in American history and compares them with isolated large incidents in Europe. The link below looks at the worlds mass shooting for the last fifty years. not only does the US vastly lead that list but the repeat occurrences make it clear culturally something has changed over the last twenty years that has exacerbated the problem.

    That said with the number of weapons in America if we were to install a rigid policy or altogether ban personal firearms then no doubt someone would acquire a weapon and shoot a bunch of people. So then without evidence to the contrary many folks will jump on the it has failed bandwagon.

    How do you defend the fact that the US has ten thousand gun deaths? Compared to regulated nations. Or hell even compared to Israel or Switzerland where gun ownership is compulsory. the difference in both of those societies is the existence of state paid for health care and adequate mental health services.

    So republicans have to come off of something. Their financial policies killed our wealth and now their social policies are killing us outright.
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  26. #426

    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by -Callum- View Post
    No. What if the killer is a homosexual? Do we criminalize homosexuality?

    Geez, such logic is mind-boggling.
    If it were found that homosexuality was the cause of mass murders -- you'd have to criminalize homosexuality.

    I'm guessing that violent video games, TV shows, movies, and the overall breakdown of the moral structure of the family and society have much more to do with the mass murders than anything else.

  27. #427
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    If it were found that homosexuality was the cause of mass murders -- you'd have to criminalize homosexuality.

    I'm guess that violent video games, TV shows, movies, and the overall breakdown of the moral structure of the family and society have much more to do with the mass murders than anything else.
    Actually in studies of the shooters video games and violent content play little to no role.
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  28. #428

    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    ^^


    A little too convenient of an article to exempt a potential cause. In the end it's the person not the tool that decides what happens.

    The military uses video games to hone the skills of soldiers.

  29. #429
    Are u haleloo ya ? Telstra's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by White Eagle View Post
    This is an interesting read from a woman that has a son with possibly the same disability as Adam Lanza.


    http://thebluereview.org/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother/
    Could be made into a movie.
    Very scary .... its like "Omen" without the supernatural stuff


    NEVER LISTEN TO A ONE SIDED STORY AND JUDGE.

  30. #430
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Murders in Detroit for 2010 - 310 - Link
    Murders in Windsor for 2010 - Zero - Link

    Same violent video games, same violent movies. Two cities less than a mile apart. Your point is invalid, Jack.
    blacksyringe

  31. #431
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    ^^


    A little too convenient of an article to exempt a potential cause. In the end it's the person not the tool that decides what happens.

    The military uses video games to hone the skills of soldiers.
    Actually there are hundreds of studies. you will need access to a database like lexus or EBSCO Host to find the psychology related and scientific ones. The only studies pointing to a link between violent video and actual shooting sprees is highly subjective and paid for by companies like Bushman or Colt. Sound familiar? Remember when the tobacco companies bought their own scientist?
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  32. #432
    JubberClubber White Eagle's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by FuryOfFirestorm View Post
    You beat me to it. I found this today too.
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by -Callum- View Post
    Murders in Detroit for 2010 - 310 - Link
    Murders in Windsor for 2010 - Zero - Link

    Same violent video games, same violent movies. Two cities less than a mile apart. Your point is invalid, Jack.
    What a comparison. Windsor, metro population 300,000 more or less; Detroit, metro population 4 million plus.

  34. #434
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Telstra View Post
    Could be made into a movie.
    Very scary .... its like "Omen" without the supernatural stuff
    Didn't think of that. That would be a good movie.
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

  35. #435
    Booyah! Callum's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    What a comparison. Windsor, metro population 300,000 more or less; Detroit, metro population 4 million plus.
    Now how about breaking that down to per capita of 10000? Wait - there's no point, because there wasn't a single murder.
    blacksyringe

  36. #436
    Suck my dick, Scalia! FuryOfFirestorm's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    It's funny that a lot of NRA and 2nd Amendment supporters are arguing that keeping guns in the hands of civilians would prevent or stop these events, but how many of these mass shootings were actually prevented or stopped by armed civilians?

  37. #437
    Suck my dick, Scalia! FuryOfFirestorm's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Now that I think about it, this latest tragedy could have been avoided if civilians weren't armed.

    His mother owned those guns, giving him easy access to weapons.

    If she hadn't insisted on having a personal arsenal, it would have been a lot harder for him to obtain that many guns without raising red flags.

  38. #438
    Suck my dick, Scalia! FuryOfFirestorm's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    If it were found that homosexuality was the cause of mass murders -- you'd have to criminalize homosexuality.

    I'm guessing that violent video games, TV shows, movies, and the overall breakdown of the moral structure of the family and society have much more to do with the mass murders than anything else.
    A majority of these mass shootings were done by Caucasian males, so according to your logic, we need to round up all Caucasian males and put them in jail.

    Oh look - I'm a Hispanic/Native American male, so i'm completely exempt. Have fun in jail, Jack!

  39. #439
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by FuryOfFirestorm View Post
    Now that I think about it, this latest tragedy could have been avoided if civilians weren't armed.

    His mother owned those guns, giving him easy access to weapons.

    If she hadn't insisted on having a personal arsenal, it would have been a lot harder for him to obtain that many guns without raising red flags.
    Yes, exactly.

    If it wasn't for this crazy gun culture in America, this kind of stuff wouldn't happen.

    Purchasing a gun for "personal protection" makes it 3x more likely that someone in your home will die of a homicide. Three times! As Mrs. Lanza discovered.



    http://guncite.com/gun-control-kellermann-3times.html

  40. #440

    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by -Callum- View Post
    Murders in Detroit for 2010 - 310 - Link
    Murders in Windsor for 2010 - Zero - Link

    Same violent video games, same violent movies. Two cities less than a mile apart. Your point is invalid, Jack.
    What makes the difference in murders between the two?

    There has to be more to the story.

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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by FuryOfFirestorm View Post
    There is an argument that counters this, namely that in most cases of mass gun killings the catylist that brings the event to an end is the arrival of armed opposition. The observation/theory is that the killing in this latest killing spree stopped killing and turned his gun on himself when he heard the sirens indicating armed police officers had arrived. There was a recent shooter in a mall that reportedly stopped his shooting and turned his gun on himself when he noticed that a man had drawn his (licensed) concealed carry handgun and was looking for a clear shot at him. How accurate this theory is, is of course, debatable but it has a certain soundness to me you rarely hear that spree killers such as this actually shooting it out with the police, they almost always flee or kill themselves instead.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

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    JUB Addict T-Rexx's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    So republicans have to come off of something. Their financial policies killed our wealth and now their social policies are killing us outright.
    This bears repeating.

  43. #443

    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by FuryOfFirestorm View Post
    A majority of these mass shootings were done by Caucasian males, so according to your logic, we need to round up all Caucasian males and put them in jail.

    Oh look - I'm a Hispanic/Native American male, so i'm completely exempt. Have fun in jail, Jack!
    I'm white? I had better tell my parents.

  44. #444

    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    This bears repeating.
    How many millions of babies have liberals killed by abortion?

  45. #445
    Suck my dick, Scalia! FuryOfFirestorm's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    There is an argument that counters this, namely that in most cases of mass gun killings the catylist that brings the event to an end is the arrival of armed opposition. The observation/theory is that the killing in this latest killing spree stopped killing and turned his gun on himself when he heard the sirens indicating armed police officers had arrived. There was a recent shooter in a mall that reportedly stopped his shooting and turned his gun on himself when he noticed that a man had drawn his (licensed) concealed carry handgun and was looking for a clear shot at him. How accurate this theory is, is of course, debatable but it has a certain soundness to me you rarely hear that spree killers such as this actually shooting it out with the police, they almost always flee or kill themselves instead.
    The first case involves the police (who carry guns as part of their job), not armed civilians.

    The second case has not been given solid confirmation as of yet.

    Spree killings have usually ended in 3 ways:

    1. The shooter gives up and turns himself over to the Police/SWAT

    2. The shooter turns the gun on himself

    3. The shooter gets taken down by a police sniper.

    I've yet to see a mass shooter get taken down by an armed civilian.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    How many millions of babies have liberals killed by abortion?
    None. Now fetuses, on the other hand....

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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    How many millions of babies have liberals killed by abortion?
    As you well know, Jack, the reason for the decline in crime in the USA is thought to be the legalization of abortion.

    Abortion is a horrible "solution" to a social problem we cannot figure out any better way to deal with. But, how many millions of lives have ironically been saved because of abortion?

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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by FuryOfFirestorm View Post
    :

    I've yet to see a mass shooter get taken down by an armed civilian.


    ....
    That's probably because many of the mass shooting venues are 'gun free zones'.
    That college in Virginia comes to mind, as do schools.

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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by FuryOfFirestorm View Post
    The first case involves the police (who carry guns as part of their job), not armed civilians.

    The second case has not been given solid confirmation as of yet.

    Spree killings have usually ended in 3 ways:

    1. The shooter gives up and turns himself over to the Police/SWAT

    2. The shooter turns the gun on himself

    3. The shooter gets taken down by a police sniper.

    I've yet to see a mass shooter get taken down by an armed civilian.
    Which does not rule out that it could happen. However the rest of your observation does not invalidate the argument, it complements it if anything.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  49. #449

    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    As you well know, Jack, the reason for the decline in crime in the USA is thought to be the legalization of abortion.

    Abortion is a horrible "solution" to a social problem we cannot figure out any better way to deal with. But, how many millions of lives have ironically been saved because of abortion?
    Saved lives by abortion. What are you talking about?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by FuryOfFirestorm View Post
    None. Now fetuses, on the other hand....
    So this isn't a serious discussion.

  50. #450
    Suck my dick, Scalia! FuryOfFirestorm's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Saved lives by abortion. What are you talking about?

    - - - Updated - - -



    So this isn't a serious discussion.
    Not since you joined it, no.

    This is a baby: [insert photo of baby here. JUB's policy doesn't allow images of children]

    This is not a baby:

    I hope that cleared things up.

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