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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post

    Are you suggesting that no one in this country is ever a victim of violent crime?

    That's the only foundation for an accusation of "paranoia".
    Yes, that's ABSOLUTELY what I was suggesting. So glad we figured it out in time to have a non-insane debate -_-
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  2. #202
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    No, people prefer to have food on their tables and warm beds for their kids and money for the doctor and a vehicle for getting to work. Dishing out a sizable portion of annual income instead to get a fancy electronic system just isn't an option.
    errr... can you remind me why they want a gun again?

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post

    That's the coward's choice. It concedes that might makes right by letting those who act that way win.
    So you not feeling like a coward is more important than another human's life? Way to be part of society...
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  4. #204
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    How hard is it to simply remove the superficial aspects like the pistol grip and still have a weapon with the same performance as the 'banned' weapon?
    That depends on the weapon. If it was manufactured as pistol-grip, it will be harder; if it was a kit, no real trouble.

    But the mere fact that many can be switched back and forth proves that the distinction is one that's 100% political.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  5. #205
    auribus teneo lupum Stardreamer's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    That depends on the weapon. If it was manufactured as pistol-grip, it will be harder; if it was a kit, no real trouble.

    But the mere fact that many can be switched back and forth proves that the distinction is one that's 100% political.
    Well that was the point of the question, if the manufacture can defeat the ban by producing a gun with exactly the same performance stats as the banned weapon by just making a few cosmetic changes, the ban really does absolutely nothing except make some people feel good.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  6. #206
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by -Callum- View Post
    I have mixed emotions on this. I'm sad for the children, parents and everyone intimately involved in the slaughter, or anyone that's suffered from such events in the past and is haunted every time a massacre occurs. Yet I find it exhausting, these atrocities are so commonplace in American media I think I've become desensitized to them. Massacres occur in some countries on a weekly if not daily basis, yet American media will drag on one specific event on American soil for months on end.

    American gun culture is something I've never understood. I took a course on American history once and I pretty much concluded America is founded on a culture of fear, from the 1760s onward. I don't think they've ever overcome the whole 'the British are coming' mentality. Weird, but hey...makes it unique. The NRA just promotes that hardwired fear, and vast swaths of America are okay with the promotion because a firearm is a teddy bear...but for reasons unclear to me they're literally up in arms over any discussion on gun regulation (which incidentally is typically the argument from the Southern States, which are notoriously uneducated and likely don't even know the other amendments to their constitution).

    Guns are fine if they're regulated. Their constitutional right is to take up arms, so they shouldn't have to discard them...yet they should be intensely regulated. If you want a gun you should have to pass a series of evaluations. Buying one at Wal-Mart is just insane. The fact that if I don't take my medications and can run into Wal-Mart, purchase a gun, leave the store, walk into a school/movie theatre/church and systematically slaughter people is mind-boggling. I understand America has wonderful freedoms, but the death of twenty schoolchildren in CT is one of the many prices Americans have to pay for that 'gun freedom'.

    And the "GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE" mentality is something I also don't understand. It's rooted in the argument that if someone sought to kill, they could use any object. Which is reasonable. Could we logically deduce that "SMOKING DOESN'T KILL PEOPLE, PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE" is a valid argument, knowing medicine is aware secondhand smoke is lethal? A smoke is more insidious, no doubt, but it also kills you. Again, a lack of regulation yet overwhelming freedoms is something Americans dearly pay for.

    This is a conversation America should have been having since its inception, not the day of a massacre.

    Great post.

    Generational turnover will fix the gun culture problem that we have.

    A lot of the people that support the NRA are losing ground quickly. Just in the last election, they've seen gay marriage, marijuana dispensing legalized and a black president reelected. Their bullshitting days are over.

    Must be surreal to wake up and see how little water your ideas carry for most Americans.

    NRA Cancels Twitter Chat... now why is that? Guns don't kill people right?

    The future is so promising for this country.
    "Rarely do we find men who willingly engage in hard solid thinking. There is an almost universal quest for easy answers and half-baked solutions. Nothing pains some people more than having to think.'' - Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

  7. #207
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    as it relates to the massacre, here's some news that is worth noting, sorta sad and uplifting as well

    In a tearful talk with reporters, Robbie Parker, the 30-year-old father of 6-year-old Emilie Parker, who died in the shooting, said she was an exceptional artist who delighted in making cards and drawing pictures for people who needed an emotional lift.

    [Quote truncated by moderator 2012 Cable News Network. Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
    http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/15...cre/?hpt=hp_t1
    Last edited by opinterph; December 15th, 2012 at 08:53 PM. Reason: truncated excessive quote from copyrighted source; Refer to CE&P Posting Guidelines

  8. #208
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by -Callum- View Post
    American gun culture is something I've never understood. I took a course on American history once and I pretty much concluded America is founded on a culture of fear, from the 1760s onward. I don't think they've ever overcome the whole 'the British are coming' mentality. Weird, but hey...makes it unique. The NRA just promotes that hardwired fear, and vast swaths of America are okay with the promotion because a firearm is a teddy bear...but for reasons unclear to me they're literally up in arms over any discussion on gun regulation (which incidentally is typically the argument from the Southern States, which are notoriously uneducated and likely don't even know the other amendments to their constitution).
    It's not fear, it's pride in being free.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Callum- View Post
    Guns are fine if they're regulated. Their constitutional right is to take up arms, so they shouldn't have to discard them...yet they should be intensely regulated
    "Regulated" = "infringed".

    Quote Originally Posted by -Callum- View Post
    And the "GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE, PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE" mentality is something I also don't understand. It's rooted in the argument that if someone sought to kill, they could use any object. Which is reasonable. Could we logically deduce that "SMOKING DOESN'T KILL PEOPLE, PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE" is a valid argument, knowing medicine is aware secondhand smoke is lethal? A smoke is more insidious, no doubt, but it also kills you. Again, a lack of regulation yet overwhelming freedoms is something Americans dearly pay for.

    This is a conversation America should have been having since its inception, not the day of a massacre.
    Yes, that's a valid argument for smokers, and I use it -- I ask why they're killing themselves.

    As for regulation, I suspect that in many ways we'd be better off if the Patrick Henry version of the Second Amendment had been passed, requiring every person to be armed, and of course trained.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  9. #209
    Booyah! Callum's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    It's not fear, it's pride in being free.

    "Regulated" = "infringed".

    Yes, that's a valid argument for smokers, and I use it -- I ask why they're killing themselves.

    As for regulation, I suspect that in many ways we'd be better off if the Patrick Henry version of the Second Amendment had been passed, requiring every person to be armed, and of course trained.
    Yet smoking is also killing you, via secondhand smoke. And guns are also killing you via being a victim of gun violence. People are therefore killing people. If we look at the murdered children (MC), their secondhand-smoking parents (SP), the shooter's mother [the teacher] (SM), the shooter (S), a gun (G), and cigarettes (C)...

    MC + SP + C = death.
    SM + S + G = death.

    They both come to the same conclusion. Having your rights infringed (guns) is bad when one of them is regulated (smokes) to hell and back (smoking), but one is not (guns)? Again, I don't understand the mentality.
    blacksyringe

  10. #210
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    So you not feeling like a coward is more important than another human's life? Way to be part of society...
    You recommended that I run away and abandon my home as a solution to a high-risk situation. Now WTF are you talking about?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  11. #211

    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    [Quoted Post: Removed by Moderator]
    MSNBC is in full blown gun banning mode.

    Liberals never waste a tragedy to push their agenda.
    Last edited by opinterph; December 15th, 2012 at 08:56 PM. Reason: removed verbiage quoted from another poster

  12. #212
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    You recommended that I run away and abandon my home as a solution to a high-risk situation. Now WTF are you talking about?
    I recommended no such thing. I recommended that you MOVE your home to a location where gays are accepted and you wouldn't feel threatened. We feature multiple factors in our decisions to live in one place and not another, so why not feature your orientation? I see a big difference between moving and running away, and if the price for not shooting another human being - even if it's a burglar - is not living there, I say it's not such a steep price.

    And how is what you describe in ANY conceivable way "pride in being free" when all it says is fear and paranoia? Fear and paranoia are not pride. Nor are they being free. When you expect your own neighbors and your own government to come and stab you in your sleep, that is the opposite of free.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  13. #213
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    MSNBC is in full blown gun banning mode.

    Liberals never waste a tragedy to push their agenda.
    Ah, yes, the insidious liberal agenda of preventing death. Despicable.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  14. #214
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    With that position, you stand with the criminals against the innocent.
    Right because typically Criminals will have everything aligned but upstanding citizens will not be able to meet the metric to be legitimate.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  15. #215
    Banned chance1's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    MSNBC is in full blown gun banning mode.

    Liberals never waste a tragedy to push their agenda.
    yeah ........ seems like they're not following Jay Carney's lead

    something needs to be done Jack - biz as usual is not the answer

    this is happening far too often

    and parents burying kids is just not acceptable

    gun rights when enacted ........ very diff time ........ gun owners/lovers will have to accept that saving lives is the most important thing

  16. #216
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    I recommended no such thing. I recommended that you MOVE your home to a location where gays are accepted and you wouldn't feel threatened. We feature multiple factors in our decisions to live in one place and not another, so why not feature your orientation? I see a big difference between moving and running away, and if the price for not shooting another human being - even if it's a burglar - is not living there, I say it's not such a steep price.

    And how is what you describe in ANY conceivable way "pride in being free" when all it says is fear and paranoia? Fear and paranoia are not pride. Nor are they being free. When you expect your own neighbors and your own government to come and stab you in your sleep, that is the opposite of free.
    Not everyone has the luxury of being able to move or pay for expensive security services for protection.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  17. #217
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    [Quoted Post: Removed by Moderator]
    I am not sure why your against the concept of reading comprehension. I am not against good parenting. However you cannot counsel or legislate that behavior and it is not prevalent in America. So it is naive to think that is the solution.



    Here is food for thought for those of you who support banning guns. What is to stop any of these psychos from creating an IED should they not have access to guns? James Holmes had enough explosives to level his apartment complex. The only reason it did not is because he was a poor builder of remote or catch wire triggers. Had he been more adept or had he simply worn the bomb and detonated in the fail safe way by triggering it himself then potentially more than 26 would be dead.

    The reason i say that is not because guns do not need to be regulated with a greater degree of difficulty. I dont say it because I am against mandatory education for gun ownership. Because I am for both of those things regardless of the mental insane who claim they can defend against our government with a small arm weapon.

    I say that because the problem isn't ENTIRELY guns it is societal as well. We MUST address that either first or simultaneously because otherwise the mentally unstable will simply find another method to their madness.

    Cheers.
    Last edited by opinterph; December 15th, 2012 at 09:11 PM. Reason: removed verbiage quoted from another poster
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  18. #218

    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Ah, yes, the insidious liberal agenda of preventing death. Despicable.
    That's the thing . . . the misguided agenda. It's the culture. People pull the trigger.

    Find out why the crazies want to kill others and the problem is solved.

    Have any ideas?

    Most of the killers are loners and young men ... that's a start ... care to add know anymore?

    If the guy smoked pot before he went on the killing spree -- would you want to ban pot? Oops!! That's already illegal.

  19. #219
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    Not everyone has the luxury of being able to move or pay for expensive security services for protection.
    So the response is obviously to kill people. Got ya.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  20. #220
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    I am not sure why your against the concept of reading comprehension. I am not against good parenting. However you cannot counsel or legislate that behavior and it is not prevalent in America. So it is naive to think that is the solution.



    Here is food for thought for those of you who support banning guns. What is to stop any of these psychos from creating an IED should they not have access to guns? James Holmes had enough explosives to level his apartment complex. The only reason it did not is because he was a poor builder of remote or catch wire triggers. Had he been more adept or had he simply worn the bomb and detonated in the fail safe way by triggering it himself then potentially more than 26 would be dead.

    The reason i say that is not because guns do not need to be regulated with a greater degree of difficulty. I dont say it because I am against mandatory education for gun ownership. Because I am for both of those things regardless of the mental insane who claim they can defend against our government with a small arm weapon.

    I say that because the problem isn't ENTIRELY guns it is societal as well. We MUST address that either first or simultaneously because otherwise the mentally unstable will simply find another method to their madness.

    Cheers.
    perhaps it was your leave it to beaver ref after a heartfelt story from henry - i know he's conservative and all and worthy of your perpetual scorn but ...........

    and just for the sake of argument ....... creating an IED ?

    that's a whole nother level no?

    what's your point there ?

    that not having a gun would push someone to do more ? worse ?

    at least that's harder no ?

    again no expert but i'm thinking post 20 kids getting slaughtered there will be enough members of congress with enough balls to make something better happen

  21. #221

    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    yeah ........ seems like they're not following Jay Carney's lead

    something needs to be done Jack - biz as usual is not the answer

    this is happening far too often

    and parents burying kids is just not acceptable

    gun rights when enacted ........ very diff time ........ gun owners/lovers will have to accept that saving lives is the most important thing
    I think the bottom line is respect for human life. Our culture and schools don't promote respect for the lives of others.

    Take away the guns and the crazy ones will kill with something else.

  22. #222
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    That's the thing . . . the misguided agenda. It's the culture. People pull the trigger.

    Find out why the crazies want to kill others and the problem is solved.

    Have any ideas?

    Most of the killers are loners and young men ... that's a start ... care to add know anymore?

    If the guy smoked pot before he went on the killing spree -- would you want to ban pot? Oops!! That's already illegal.
    you're right jack - people kill people

    but w/o a gun, it's much harder

    you're not for any additional restrictions?

    do u have a gun ?

  23. #223
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Did you read anything about Holmes?

    DO you comprehend how simple it is to find information on building homemade explosives?

    Oh and I am sorry that when i reference 1950's televisions shows when a 1950s idea is floated and it wets your panties. I will send you some desiccant.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  24. #224
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    That's the thing . . . the misguided agenda. It's the culture. People pull the trigger.

    Find out why the crazies want to kill others and the problem is solved.

    Have any ideas?

    Most of the killers are loners and young men ... that's a start ... care to add know anymore?

    If the guy smoked pot before he went on the killing spree -- would you want to ban pot? Oops!! That's already illegal.
    1. People pull the trigger when there's a trigger to pull. When you go home angry at the world and you have a gun, that opens the door for the thought of picking it up, going back outside and shooting people. That thought will likely be replaced by throwing a plate at the wall if you have no access to guns.

    2. Yeah, of course, there's ONE problem and we can totally solve it. The world is crazy. It is nerve-wracking, intense, and too damn fast-paced. Some people snap. We can do our best to avoid it but it will still happen once in a while. It happens ALL THE TIME in Japan. Yet, miraculously, they manage not to kill others through their not owning the weapons to do it. Not saying the issue of mental health shouldn't be addressed - it should as it is certainly a factor - but that's a long-term goal, and people are dying NOW.

    3. I have no idea what "care to add know anymore" means.

    4. Pot will soon be legal, and I feel guilty for the little bit of happiness the thought of how miserable that must make you is making me feel. And if you knew anything about pot, you'd know how non-violent people who smoke it are. You're HIGHLY unlikely to even think of killing someone if you're on weed.

    5. Can we not all adopt unsavory haiku techniques of posting?
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  25. #225
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    So the response is obviously to kill people. Got ya.
    So poor people should just die for the good of society?
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  26. #226
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    I think the bottom line is respect for human life. Our culture and schools don't promote respect for the lives of others.

    Take away the guns and the crazy ones will kill with something else.
    Yeah, see, that's an indefensible claim. Worse - it's one that reality-based FACTS disprove on a daily basis. Sure, some people will still manage to kill without guns. But the same number? I'm sorry, it's a laughable thought.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  27. #227
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    So poor people should just die for the good of society?
    No, they should be better protected by law enforcement (whatever Kuli says, that IS part of its purpose) and social programs. And by gun laws that make it harder for criminals to find weapons. What they SHOULDN'T do is arm themselves and turn poor neighborhoods into "vigilantes VS thugs" crime-states.

    Because, when you kill a person, you are a murderer. Self-defense or not.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  28. #228
    auribus teneo lupum Stardreamer's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    perhaps it was your leave it to beaver ref after a heartfelt story from henry - i know he's conservative and all and worthy of your perpetual scorn but ...........

    and just for the sake of argument ....... creating an IED ?

    that's a whole nother level no?

    what's your point there ?

    that not having a gun would push someone to do more ? worse ?

    at least that's harder no ?

    again no expert but i'm thinking post 20 kids getting slaughtered there will be enough members of congress with enough balls to make something better happen
    The Columbine shooters had built and placed IEDs that they intended to set off and destroy the school building, without the guns they would likely have followed through with that part of their plan and likely a higher death toll.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  29. #229
    JubberClubber White Eagle's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    A gun that fires continuously when the trigger is pulled is called fully automatic or more commonly a machine gun. You have to have a hideously hard and expensive to get Federal license to own one. A lot of misinformed people think the commonly called 'assault weapons' are machine guns but they are not. Most are standard semi-automatic (one trigger pull, one shot) weapons with a few cosmetic features like pistol grips to make them look like military weapons.
    Thank you. That is what I mean. Do we really need the population to get hlod of them?
    You know this is not gonna happen. but we need to try.
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

  30. #230

    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    you're right jack - people kill people

    but w/o a gun, it's much harder

    you're not for any additional restrictions?

    do u have a gun ?
    I have a 12 gauge shotgun. I used to hunt quail, ducks, pheasant, and geese -- not so much anymore -- I miss it. I had some great times with cousins and uncles who aren't around anymore.

    I don't see the need to restrict the sale of guns -- however, I don't see the need for most military style guns either.

    I do find it rather sad that MSNBC, demonstrators outside the WH, Bloomberg, Nadler, and evidently Obama want to take advantage of the deaths of 26 people and promote part of their agenda.

    Let the families mourn. They still don't have possession of their loved one's bodies.

  31. #231
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    IED's are amazingly simple to build using common components found anywhere. You cannot stop it.

    These planned attacks are just that. Nobody goes home one singular day and says... you know what i think will kill as many people as I can... they plan it out.

    Restrict every gun in America and Psychotics off their SSRIs will find other ways to cause carnage.

    We must solve the bigger issue.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  32. #232

    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Yeah, see, that's an indefensible claim. Worse - it's one that reality-based FACTS disprove on a daily basis. Sure, some people will still manage to kill without guns. But the same number? I'm sorry, it's a laughable thought.
    So you don't believe in the good of people. You think that people have to be restrained to keep them good?

    Government knows best?

  33. #233
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    No jack the Majority of the people taking a stand and saying enough is enough knows best. That is what happened in Novemeber and that is what will kneecap the NRA and bring sanity to our gun laws.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    [Quoted Post: Removed by Moderator]
    Please stop making personal references of me. My subject is on topic. Your is on me.
    Last edited by opinterph; December 15th, 2012 at 09:38 PM. Reason: removed content quoted from another poster
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  34. #234
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    So you don't believe in the good of people. You think that people have to be restrained to keep them good?

    Government knows best?
    I absolutely believe in the good of MOST people. But it doesn't take MOST people to commit crimes and murders. It takes a FEW. And the good people have little need of tools for murder to begin with. Your touching story of good family time with your shotgun is very sweet, but I would not hesitate to throw that under the bus if it would save lives. Plus, if you qualify for it after screening, you'd still have it, no? If you aren't murderer material, you have nothing to worry about.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

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    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    "You can take away my guns when you can pry it from the cold dead hands of my six year old"

    Isn't that the NRA slogan?
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  36. #236
    Quality posting since 2K7 Nishin's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    So you don't believe in the good of people. You think that people have to be restrained to keep them good?

    Government knows best?
    Seriously??

  37. #237
    auribus teneo lupum Stardreamer's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    No, they should be better protected by law enforcement (whatever Kuli says, that IS part of its purpose) and social programs. And by gun laws that make it harder for criminals to find weapons. What they SHOULDN'T do is arm themselves and turn poor neighborhoods into "vigilantes VS thugs" crime-states.

    Because, when you kill a person, you are a murderer. Self-defense or not.
    I have no desire for anyone to die. But what exactly are the poor to do until we achieve this social utopia with no crime and a policeman on every corner?
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  38. #238
    auribus teneo lupum Stardreamer's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by White Eagle View Post
    Thank you. That is what I mean. Do we really need the population to get hlod of them?
    You know this is not gonna happen. but we need to try.
    The population at large doesn't have access to them, they are very expensive and hard to get the license. I think there has only been one case of that I've ever heard of a licensed machine gun being used in a crime in like 60 years.
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  39. #239
    Banned chance1's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Nishin View Post
    Seriously??
    please give more

    nothing is communicated here

  40. #240

    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    I absolutely believe in the good of MOST people. But it doesn't take MOST people to commit crimes and murders. It takes a FEW. And the good people have little need of tools for murder to begin with. Your touching story of good family time with your shotgun is very sweet, but I would not hesitate to throw that under the bus if it would save lives. Plus, if you qualify for it after screening, you'd still have it, no? If you aren't murderer material, you have nothing to worry about.
    I'll keep my gun, thank you. The government or you will not take it away.

    People have been taught that they don't need to have personal responsibility. We need to respect others, ourselves and the law.

  41. #241
    Quality posting since 2K7 Nishin's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by chance1 View Post
    please give more

    nothing is communicated here
    To keep it short... any war in History?

  42. #242
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Stardreamer View Post
    Well that was the point of the question, if the manufacture can defeat the ban by producing a gun with exactly the same performance stats as the banned weapon by just making a few cosmetic changes, the ban really does absolutely nothing except make some people feel good.
    And make other people unhappy.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  43. #243
    Bammer's Papa
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Lostlover View Post
    Great post.

    Generational turnover will fix the gun culture problem that we have.

    A lot of the people that support the NRA are losing ground quickly. Just in the last election, they've seen gay marriage, marijuana dispensing legalized and a black president reelected. Their bullshitting days are over.

    Must be surreal to wake up and see how little water your ideas carry for most Americans.

    NRA Cancels Twitter Chat... now why is that? Guns don't kill people right?

    The future is so promising for this country.
    Are you aware that Americans who are gun owners tend to overwhelmingly trust the NRA on voting matters despite their party affiliation?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  44. #244
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    I'll keep my gun, thank you. The government or you will not take it away.

    People have been taught that they don't need to have personal responsibility. We need to respect others, ourselves and the law.
    Um, I won't, but if the government chooses to, it most certainly WILL take it from away Personal responsibility is paying taxes, not taking the law in your own hands.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Are you aware that Americans who are gun owners tend to overwhelmingly trust the NRA on voting matters despite their party affiliation?
    I find this to be more than a little horrifying.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  45. #245

    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    I do not support banning guns across the board for two reasons. The first is that I know how deeply many responsible gun owners believe they are protecting their lives and to turn millions of law abiding citizens into law breaking criminals is completely unacceptable to me. The other reason...criminals will STILL find and use guns as they always have no matter what law you put into place and you simply cannot and should not depend on the Police to protect you...I agree with Kulindhar on that point.

    I believe in the right to do what you wish with your body and advocating laws that gives us the right to do with our bodies as we wish and that includes protecting it from harm and sometimes that requires a gun. I don't like that it sometimes requires a gun...but it DOES.

    PS...not all liberals are anti gun.

  46. #246
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Banning guns across the board would be devastating for sure. I am not for it. I am for a severe set of regulations though...
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  47. #247
    auribus teneo lupum Stardreamer's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    We need to keep in mind that the Supreme Court has established in the Heller decision that you have a right to have a gun for self defense in your own home. That is NOT changing without a decades of changes in the court or a constitutional amendment changing the 2nd Amendment. So even if the majority would like some of the poor to lie down and die at the hands of criminal gangs so there will be less deaths overall, they have an established RIGHT to have a gun in the home to defend themselves and that is not going to change.

    The court does allow for reasonable restrictions on types of guns. The real question is what is reasonable? Unfortunately, basic handguns are the most reasonable weapon for self defense. They are also the most practical weapons for crime so we are faced situation, you cannot ban handguns and crime prevention you hope to gain cannot be achieved without doing so.

    To make things worse, the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals in Moore vs Madigan has just extended the Heller right to self defense in your home to the right of defense outside the home as well, if the Supreme Court upholds that ruling then shall issue concealed carry laws may become the national standard. The judges ruling put it this way:

    A woman who is being stalked or has obtained a protective order against a violent ex-husband is more vulnerable to being attacked while walking to or from her home than when inside. She has a stronger self-defense claim to be allowed to carry a gun in public than the resident of a fancy apartment building (complete with doorman) has a claim to sleep with a loaded gun under her mattress. But Illinois wants to deny the former claim, while compelled by McDonald to honor the latter. That creates an arbitrary difference. To confine the right to be armed to the home is to divorce the Second Amendment from the right of self-defense described in Heller and McDonald.
    The attorney's arguing for the Illinois law forbidding the carrying of guns in public used the public safety issue as part of their argument. The judge dismissed it saying that the fundamental right of self defense cannot be deprived to a law abiding citizen due to the 'causality counts' caused by others activities. The judge has made it plain that even if you could conclusively prove that banning guns would reduce the number of gun deaths overall, you cannot constitutionally use that to deny a law abiding citizen the right to have a gun for self defense.

    An Important Victory for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms

    Which brings us back to the question, you are not going to get rid of guns in US society so instead we should focus on what are 'reasonable' restrictions which could be allowed without baring the ability of self defense.

    A restriction of magazine capacity would be one I think,
    Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. H. L. Mencken US editor (1880 - 1956)

  48. #248
    Rambunctiously Pugnacious JayHawk's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    I think it is entirely reasonable to require training. But then I also think it entirely reasonable to register guns and if your weapon is involved in a crime and you haven't reported it stolen then you bear responsibility.

    Although i really do think the major issue here is mental health, mental health services and the rampant over prescription of SSRIs for issues that are not required to have SSRIs. So either legislate that over prescription away (Never gonna happen... if you think the NRA has juice try fucking with big pharma who have their own administration in government) or require a one year hiatus from gun possession for those who are undergoing SSRI treatment. To include access in their familial environment.

    I also know there are plenty of loopholes in gun procurement. Such as going to a gun show in Arizona. Those should be closed and enforced.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


  49. #249
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    when you kill a person, you are a murderer. Self-defense or not.
    I disagree. Citizens are entitled to use lethal force to repel unprovoked threats of imminent personal harm.

  50. #250
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

    No, I agree with that. I was talking morality. The act of taking another human's life should be the absolute last resort in absolutely every situation, and it can never be even remotely morally right.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

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