NRA is a Domestic Terrorist Group

[frankfrank]

Oh look - I'm a Hispanic/Native American male, so i'm completely exempt. Have fun in jail, Jack!

I'm white? I had better tell my parents.

[.gif image: God is sitting on His cloud, looking at the Holy Bible. His thought balloon says: "Jesus? Hay-soos? I didn't know my Son was Hispanic!"]

[Jack Springer]

Time for this baiting thread to be closed also.

[Rolyo85]

This is not a baiting thread, it's a thread to discuss gun control in. If that offends you too much to post, don't blame the thread.

[chance1]

If you're trying to agree with me regarding your party's stupidity concerning the gun issue, then thank you.

you're misunderstanding me

[Jack Springer]

What would you say if you learned that Europe has just as bad of a problem with mass murder AS the USA -- AND -- the have strict gun control laws?

I found this link in an article I read yesterday. The data is a year old -- but very interesting.

Here's the list of mass murders in Europe from 2001 to June, 2010.

Zug, Switzerland, Sept. 27, 2001: A man whose lawsuits had been denied murdered 14 members of a cantonal parliament.

Tours, France, Oct. 29, 2001: Four people were killed and ten wounded when a French railway worker started shooting at a busy intersection.

Nanterre, France, March 27, 2002: A man killed eight city-council members after a council meeting.

Erfurt, Germany, April 26, 2002: A former student killed 18 at a secondary school.

Freising, Germany, Feb. 19, 2002: Three people killed and one wounded.

Turin, Italy, Oct. 15, 2002: Seven people killed on a hillside overlooking the city.

Madrid, Spain, Oct. 1, 2006: A man killed two employees and wounded another at a company that had fired him.

Emsdetten, Germany, Nov. 20, 2006: A former student murdered eleven people at a high school.

Tuusula, Finland, Nov. 7, 2007: Seven students and the principal killed at a high school.

Naples, Italy, Sept. 18, 2008: Seven dead and two seriously wounded in a public meeting hall. (This incident is not included in the totals given below because it may have involved the Mafia.)

Kauhajoki, Finland, Sept. 23, 2008: Ten people shot to death at a college.

Winnenden, Germany, March 11, 2009: A 17-year-old former student killed 15 people, including nine students and three teachers.

Lyon, France, March 19, 2009: Ten people injured when a man opened fire on a nursery school.

Athens, Greece, April 10, 2009: Three people killed and two injured by a student at a vocational college.

Rotterdam, Netherlands, April 11, 2009: Three people killed and one injured at a crowded café.

Vienna, Austria, May 24, 2009: One dead and 15 wounded in an attack on a Sikh temple.

Espoo, Finland, Dec. 31, 2009: Four people shot to death at a mall.

Cumbria, England, June 2, 2010: Twelve killed by a British taxi driver.


http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...r-lott-jr?pg=1

[JockBoy87]

This is not a baiting thread, it's a thread to discuss gun control in. If that offends you too much to post, don't blame the thread.

You must concede at least the title of the thread is a bold claim.

[chance1]

You must concede at least the title of the thread is a bold claim.

Did u say concede ?

Groundhog Day is not just a great movie

[andysayshi]

What would you say if you learned that Europe has just as bad of a problem with mass murder AS the USA -- AND -- the have strict gun control laws?

Here is a table showing all the countries you mentioned, as well as the US, sorted by the number of guns per person in that nation.



In case you were going to question the source, i used the conservative "The Guardian" paper to get the data.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...orld-list#data

You might find it rather interesting to note that the number of firearms in the populace almost perfectly correlates to the number of homicides for each nation. (France is a surprise, as they score quite low on the homicide list, despite being so grumpy all the time. Italy is also a little off kilter - they're passionate people, and obviously don't need too many guns to kill each other.)

But what the stats overwhelmingly tell us, over and over again, is that the nations with the most guns are typically the nations that do the best job of killing themselves.

[andysayshi]

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...r-lott-jr?pg=1

And just for the record, you're quoting an article by John Lott.

John Lott is the darling of gun advocates. But he's also a self-confessed liar, and has published studies that contain data that almost certainly is fabricated.

I will use the analysis of a staunchly conservative 2nd amendment supporter, Michelle Malkin, to explain:

Last fall, Northwestern University law professor James Lindgren volunteered to investigate the claimed existence of Lott's 1997 telephone survey of 2,424 people. "I thought it would be exceedingly simple to establish" that the research had been done, Lindgren wrote in his report (posted online here.).

It was not simple. Lott claims to have lost all of his data due to a computer crash. He financed the survey himself and kept no financial records. He has forgotten the names of the students who allegedly helped with the survey and who supposedly dialed thousands of survey respondents long-distance from their own dorm rooms using survey software Lott can't identify or produce.

Assuming the survey data was lost in a computer crash, it is still remarkable that Lott could not produce a single, contemporaneous scrap of paper proving the survey's existence, such as the research protocol or survey instrument. After Lindgren's report was published, a Minnesota gun rights activist named David Gross came forward, claiming he was surveyed in 1997. Some have said that Gross's account proves that the survey was done. I think skepticism is warranted.

As to the claims of lying, Lott created a fake online persona to review and support his own work, and to attack critics of his very questionable research. Says Malkin:

Lott now admits he used a fake persona, "Mary Rosh," to post voluminous defenses of his work over the Internet. "Rosh" gushed that Lott was "the best professor that I ever had." She/he also penned an effusive review of "More Guns, Less Crime" on Amazon.com: "It was very interesting reading and Lott writes very well." (Lott claims that one of his sons posted the review in "Rosh's" name.) Just last week, "Rosh" complained on a blog comment board: "Critics such as Lambert and Lindgren ought to slink away and hide."

By itself, there is nothing wrong with using a pseudonym. But Lott's invention of Mary Rosh to praise his own research and blast other scholars is beyond creepy. And it shows his extensive willingness to deceive to protect and promote his work.

If you really want to argue gun laws in the US, John Lott is the very worst spokesman you can have.

[JockBoy87]

Did u say concede ?

Groundhog Day is not just a great movie

I have given fire to lesser mortals, but am condemned to have my regenerated liver eaten by an eagle every day.

[Jack Springer]

^^^^

Speaking of eagles ..... did you guys see this video of a golden eagle picking up a young child in a park in Montreal.

You have to watch the entire vid.

[rareboy]

It thought the kid was a prairie dog.

[JockBoy87]

^^^^

Speaking of eagles ..... did you guys see this video of a golden eagle picking up a young child in a park in Montreal.

You have to watch the entire vid.

Those eagles are pretty bold. Any higher and that kid could have died.

[Jack Springer]

It's a hoax. Very good one. Just proves you can't trust Canadians. eh

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/12/19...-canadian.html

[JockBoy87]

It's a hoax. Very good one. Just proves you can't trust Canadians. eh

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/12/19...-canadian.html

An eagle could make off with a 15 pound baby, but not a toddler.

[xbuzzerx]

What would you say if you learned that Europe has just as bad of a problem with mass murder AS the USA -- AND -- the have strict gun control laws?

The problem is that this claim is categorically untrue. Our violent murder rate is something like 2 or 2.5x the UK's proportional to number of citizens.

[Rolyo85]

You must concede at least the title of the thread is a bold claim.

The title of the thread matches the video in the OP. It isn't my title ^_^

[JockBoy87]

The title of the thread matches the video in the OP. It isn't my title ^_^

You didn't have to repeat it, so that is a reflection of your agreement with the same.

Next time, it should be in quotes, preceded by "watch:" in capital letters.

[Rolyo85]

Could have. Didn't. Doesn't make my intent any more baiting.

[JockBoy87]

Could have. Didn't. Doesn't make my intent any more baiting.

Didn't say it was partner.

[Jack Springer]

I still think this is a baiting thread and show have been closed a long time ago.

If I were to start one saying "Liberals are a Domestic Terrorist Group" or "Media Matters is a Terrorist Group"-- would you be upset?

[JockBoy87]

I still think this is a baiting thread and show have been closed a long time ago.

If I were to start one saying "Liberals are a Domestic Terrorist Group" or "Media Matters is a Terrorist Group"-- would you be upset?

Point taken.

[Rolyo85]

I still think this is a baiting thread and show have been closed a long time ago.

If I were to start one saying "Liberals are a Domestic Terrorist Group" or "Media Matters is a Terrorist Group"-- would you be upset?

If you had even remotely the number of arguments that are now available for the NRA claim, more power to you. You don't though, and couldn't find them. So yeah, in your case it WOULD be baiting ^_^

[JayHawk]

I still think this is a baiting thread and show have been closed a long time ago.

If I were to start one saying "Liberals are a Domestic Terrorist Group" or "Media Matters is a Terrorist Group"-- would you be upset?

I can see your point of view but since I am not defined by those groups I wouldnt call it baiting. Are you defined by the NRA?

You might even say and it has been said on here that US military forces are war criminals and incompetent. I am defined by that remark however I still have thick enough skin to hear what point people have without getting upset about it...

This thread has led to an amazing conversation that we have had over and over unfortunately. What I fail to understand is why folks either try to make a point... fail and then claim the thread is pointless OR bother to tell everyone who finds the thread worthwhile that they think it is worthless and refuse to offer a counter argument. Why bother really?

[xbuzzerx]

I still think this is a baiting thread and show have been closed a long time ago.

If I were to start one saying "Liberals are a Domestic Terrorist Group" or "Media Matters is a Terrorist Group"-- would you be upset?

Jack you are the last person who should be making this sort of attack on a thread.

[Ambrocious]

Have fun fighting with each other people. I'm not even sure why I'm here saying this for but, have fun.

This recent shooting is only a small part of the gun ban plan here in the United States. There is evidence that it is a false flag operation. People saw multiple shooters but the mainstream controlled media made sure to not cover that via government demand.

The reason to ban guns is so that they can kill us all more quickly. Once guns get banned, there will be shooting wars all over the United States. Once all the guns or most of the guns are taken, then people will begin to be oppressed even more.

Since criminals DON'T obey any sort of gun ban, it will be those who DID obey the gun ban who suffer: try facing down a criminal with a gun when your lucky to have a slightly sharp knife by the time they are done disarming us.

If you idiots vote to ban our guns because of an idiot who shot those poor kids, you deserve EVERYTHING that comes to America and I feel so sorry for your ignorance. There is no reasoning with some people. It's either I'm a terrorist or racist according to idiots. I really shouldn't argue with some people but here is my two cents.


America is a hell hole and some people still don't realize this yet but the fight that has been happening under the radar is for our country to NOT dive into absolute tyranny. Obama got what he wanted: this recent incident is being used to push the gun ban he wants so that our country can have more military rome the streets to oppress the people. Once we are disarmed, it's game over.

In all times past, in all nations and countries in the past, even before guns were invented, the sign that a man was free was that he was allowed to carry a sword. If you saw a man NOT carry a sword (or gun in more modern times in the past) this means that he was a slave. In todays world, it means nearly the same. The military which just spent lose to 11 years fighting in wars is desensitized and this country is suffering from a form of political cancer that WILL destroy this nation. I use to think there was hope but seeing post like this made me sure. We are fucked because of stupid self loathing idiots who refuse to hear, see, understand reality. History repeats it's self when people fail to know and learn from the mistakes from history.


"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." Thomas Jefferson



P.S. In case you are wondering, in my opinion, anyone who kills a kid should be killed themselves, just in case you some reason assume Im evil for thinking guns is a necessity for the retention of life as well. Making guns seem like the solo cause is like saying spoons are the reason for obesity. LETS BAN SPOONS TOO!

[Kulindahr]

You won't like the source, but here's a report that says Europe is on a par with the US in terms of mass shootings.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Lot...o_code=111C9-1

Interesting snip:

One of the things I’ve written about recently is the attack at the Aurora, Colorado movie theater. There, you have seven movie theaters that were showing the Batman movie when it opened at the end of July.

Out of those seven movie theaters, only one movie theater was posted as banning permit-concealed handguns. The killer didn’t go to the movie theater that was closest to his home. He didn’t go to the movie theater that was the largest movie theater in Colorado, which was essentially the same distance from his apartment as the one he ended up going to. Instead, the one he picked was the only one of those movie theaters that banned people taking permit-concealed handguns into that theater.

[andysayshi]

Have fun fighting with each other people. I'm not even sure why I'm here saying this for but, have fun.

This recent shooting is only a small part of the gun ban plan here in the United States. There is evidence that it is a false flag operation. People saw multiple shooters but the mainstream controlled media made sure to not cover that via government demand.

The reason to ban guns is so that they can kill us all more quickly. Once guns get banned, there will be shooting wars all over the United States. Once all the guns or most of the guns are taken, then people will begin to be oppressed even more.

Since criminals DON'T obey any sort of gun ban, it will be those who DID obey the gun ban who suffer: try facing down a criminal with a gun when your lucky to have a slightly sharp knife by the time they are done disarming us.

If you idiots vote to ban our guns because of an idiot who shot those poor kids, you deserve EVERYTHING that comes to America and I feel so sorry for your ignorance. There is no reasoning with some people. It's either I'm a terrorist or racist according to idiots. I really shouldn't argue with some people but here is my two cents.


America is a hell hole and some people still don't realize this yet but the fight that has been happening under the radar is for our country to NOT dive into absolute tyranny. Obama got what he wanted: this recent incident is being used to push the gun ban he wants so that our country can have more military rome the streets to oppress the people. Once we are disarmed, it's game over.

In all times past, in all nations and countries in the past, even before guns were invented, the sign that a man was free was that he was allowed to carry a sword. If you saw a man NOT carry a sword (or gun in more modern times in the past) this means that he was a slave. In todays world, it means nearly the same. The military which just spent lose to 11 years fighting in wars is desensitized and this country is suffering from a form of political cancer that WILL destroy this nation. I use to think there was hope but seeing post like this made me sure. We are fucked because of stupid self loathing idiots who refuse to hear, see, understand reality. History repeats it's self when people fail to know and learn from the mistakes from history.


"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." Thomas Jefferson



P.S. In case you are wondering, in my opinion, anyone who kills a kid should be killed themselves, just in case you some reason assume Im evil for thinking guns is a necessity for the retention of life.

Ummm...

Errrr....


No. I won't say it.

Merry Christmas Ambrocious.

[Ambrocious]

LOL thanks andy. Merry Christmas to you as well. But a response would be welcomed, I haven't been here on the forums in a while, it seems like things are devolving quite well around here.

[Kulindahr]

Murders in Detroit for 2010 - 310 - Link
Murders in Windsor for 2010 - Zero - Link

Same violent video games, same violent movies. Two cities less than a mile apart. Your point is invalid, Jack.

This is irrelevant without data to compare such things as attitudes towards violence in the two cities. In fact, it strikes me that I've never seen a single study on how people regard violence as a way to deal with things! My guess would be that people in the US are three to five times as likely to think that violence is an acceptable approach to dealing with problems.

[Kulindahr]

You beat me to it. I found this today too.

Yeah, but things based on falsehoods just aren't funny.

[Kulindahr]

It's funny that a lot of NRA and 2nd Amendment supporters are arguing that keeping guns in the hands of civilians would prevent or stop these events, but how many of these mass shootings were actually prevented or stopped by armed civilians?

Arguably half as many as don't get stopped. But that's not the item to look at: almost every mass shooting in the U.S. takes place at a place known to be gun-free. By the evidence, knowing that a place is likely to have armed citizens persuades the psychos to choose another location.

[Kulindahr]

Yes, exactly.

If it wasn't for this crazy gun culture in America, this kind of stuff wouldn't happen.

Purchasing a gun for "personal protection" makes it 3x more likely that someone in your home will die of a homicide. Three times! As Mrs. Lanza discovered.



http://guncite.com/gun-control-kellermann-3times.html

You're seriously citing Kellerman?! His methodology is so screwed up its tragic.

I've yet to see a mass shooter get taken down by an armed civilian.

Mostly because when it happens it results in a low body count, so the media don't care -- it's not spectacular.

We've had fucking prairie dogs used as the reason for assault weapons in this thread ....

Boy, do you have that backwards!

[andysayshi]

Richard Florida recently built a study that analyses correlation between gun deaths and social factors.

He found the greatest social indicators for gun deaths in each state are poverty, working class communities, schools where students take guns, and states who voted for McCain in 2008.

The strongest indicators for states with less gun deaths include college education, a 2008 vote for Obama, well-being and happiness levels, and state-enforced gun regulations like trigger locks, assault weapon bans, and safe gun storage requirements.



http://www.theatlantic.com/national/...ths/69354/#bio

[Kulindahr]

this is a depressing Tuesday morning read...



http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-massacre.html

cliffs: there really is no solution, and no way to prevent tragedies like this. the best we can do is pass laws to make ourselves feel better and maybe reduce the future body counts.

And we could catch some of the shooters before they act.

You must concede at least the title of the thread is a bold claim.

"Bold"? How about "juvenile"?

Here is a table showing all the countries you mentioned, as well as the US, sorted by the number of guns per person in that nation.



In case you were going to question the source, i used the conservative "The Guardian" paper to get the data.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...orld-list#data

You might find it rather interesting to note that the number of firearms in the populace almost perfectly correlates to the number of homicides for each nation. (France is a surprise, as they score quite low on the homicide list, despite being so grumpy all the time. Italy is also a little off kilter - they're passionate people, and obviously don't need too many guns to kill each other.)

But what the stats overwhelmingly tell us, over and over again, is that the nations with the most guns are typically the nations that do the best job of killing themselves.

But this doesn't address Jack's point.

[JayHawk]

Have fun fighting with each other people. I'm not even sure why I'm here saying this for but, have fun.

This recent shooting is only a small part of the gun ban plan here in the United States. There is evidence that it is a false flag operation. People saw multiple shooters but the mainstream controlled media made sure to not cover that via government demand.

The reason to ban guns is so that they can kill us all more quickly. Once guns get banned, there will be shooting wars all over the United States. Once all the guns or most of the guns are taken, then people will begin to be oppressed even more.

Since criminals DON'T obey any sort of gun ban, it will be those who DID obey the gun ban who suffer: try facing down a criminal with a gun when your lucky to have a slightly sharp knife by the time they are done disarming us.

If you idiots vote to ban our guns because of an idiot who shot those poor kids, you deserve EVERYTHING that comes to America and I feel so sorry for your ignorance. There is no reasoning with some people. It's either I'm a terrorist or racist according to idiots. I really shouldn't argue with some people but here is my two cents.


America is a hell hole and some people still don't realize this yet but the fight that has been happening under the radar is for our country to NOT dive into absolute tyranny. Obama got what he wanted: this recent incident is being used to push the gun ban he wants so that our country can have more military rome the streets to oppress the people. Once we are disarmed, it's game over.

In all times past, in all nations and countries in the past, even before guns were invented, the sign that a man was free was that he was allowed to carry a sword. If you saw a man NOT carry a sword (or gun in more modern times in the past) this means that he was a slave. In todays world, it means nearly the same. The military which just spent lose to 11 years fighting in wars is desensitized and this country is suffering from a form of political cancer that WILL destroy this nation. I use to think there was hope but seeing post like this made me sure. We are fucked because of stupid self loathing idiots who refuse to hear, see, understand reality. History repeats it's self when people fail to know and learn from the mistakes from history.


"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." Thomas Jefferson



P.S. In case you are wondering, in my opinion, anyone who kills a kid should be killed themselves, just in case you some reason assume Im evil for thinking guns is a necessity for the retention of life as well. Making guns seem like the solo cause is like saying spoons are the reason for obesity. LETS BAN SPOONS TOO!

[Kulindahr]

The problem is that this claim is categorically untrue. Our violent murder rate is something like 2 or 2.5x the UK's proportional to number of citizens.

And so another misses Jack's point.

If you had even remotely the number of arguments that are now available for the NRA claim, more power to you. You don't though, and couldn't find them. So yeah, in your case it WOULD be baiting ^_^

You mean zero.

[Kulindahr]

I can see your point of view but since I am not defined by those groups I wouldnt call it baiting. Are you defined by the NRA?

You might even say and it has been said on here that US military forces are war criminals and incompetent. I am defined by that remark however I still have thick enough skin to hear what point people have without getting upset about it...

This thread has led to an amazing conversation that we have had over and over unfortunately. What I fail to understand is why folks either try to make a point... fail and then claim the thread is pointless OR bother to tell everyone who finds the thread worthwhile that they think it is worthless and refuse to offer a counter argument. Why bother really?

Has anyone come in to tell us the cause of mass shootings is immigrants?

[andysayshi]

Actually, not that correlation equals causation, but the table in my post above suggests that being an immigrant reduces your likelihood of being killed by a gun in the US.

[Rolyo85]

LOL thanks andy. Merry Christmas to you as well. But a response would be welcomed, I haven't been here on the forums in a while, it seems like things are devolving quite well around here.

Trust me, you would not welcome any response that you will receive here after such a... post ^_^

[chance1]

Point taken.

Point set match actually

A conversation about the NRA needn't start with this

And the good news is most posts did not reflect the terrorist depiction

So it gave the op a much needed chub

But was irrelevant actually

The intent was baiting

And everyone knows that

[JockBoy87]

And everyone knows that

Apparently not.

[rareboy]

LOL thanks andy. Merry Christmas to you as well. But a response would be welcomed, I haven't been here on the forums in a while, it seems like things are devolving quite well around here.

Well we certainly have cut down on the amount of crazy.

[chance1]

Apparently not.

Defenders of bullshit voter turnout is always higher

It doesn't mean majority

[rareboy]

And then again, maybe not.

[JockBoy87]

Defenders of bullshit voter turnout is always higher

It doesn't mean majority

Indeed...

[chance1]

And then again, maybe not.

Don't u have Christmas lists to review

The kids will want their toys

Despite the fiscal cliff

[T-Rexx]

Mostly because when it happens it results in a low body count, so the media don't care -- it's not spectacular.

No, mostly because it never happens.


http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...mass-shootings

[rareboy]

Have fun fighting with each other people. I'm not even sure why I'm here saying this for but, have fun.

This recent shooting is only a small part of the gun ban plan here in the United States. There is evidence that it is a false flag operation. People saw multiple shooters but the mainstream controlled media made sure to not cover that via government demand.

The reason to ban guns is so that they can kill us all more quickly. Once guns get banned, there will be shooting wars all over the United States. Once all the guns or most of the guns are taken, then people will begin to be oppressed even more.

Since criminals DON'T obey any sort of gun ban, it will be those who DID obey the gun ban who suffer: try facing down a criminal with a gun when your lucky to have a slightly sharp knife by the time they are done disarming us.

If you idiots vote to ban our guns because of an idiot who shot those poor kids, you deserve EVERYTHING that comes to America and I feel so sorry for your ignorance. There is no reasoning with some people. It's either I'm a terrorist or racist according to idiots. I really shouldn't argue with some people but here is my two cents.


America is a hell hole and some people still don't realize this yet but the fight that has been happening under the radar is for our country to NOT dive into absolute tyranny. Obama got what he wanted: this recent incident is being used to push the gun ban he wants so that our country can have more military rome the streets to oppress the people. Once we are disarmed, it's game over.

In all times past, in all nations and countries in the past, even before guns were invented, the sign that a man was free was that he was allowed to carry a sword. If you saw a man NOT carry a sword (or gun in more modern times in the past) this means that he was a slave. In todays world, it means nearly the same. The military which just spent lose to 11 years fighting in wars is desensitized and this country is suffering from a form of political cancer that WILL destroy this nation. I use to think there was hope but seeing post like this made me sure. We are fucked because of stupid self loathing idiots who refuse to hear, see, understand reality. History repeats it's self when people fail to know and learn from the mistakes from history.


"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." Thomas Jefferson



P.S. In case you are wondering, in my opinion, anyone who kills a kid should be killed themselves, just in case you some reason assume Im evil for thinking guns is a necessity for the retention of life as well. Making guns seem like the solo cause is like saying spoons are the reason for obesity. LETS BAN SPOONS TOO!

Here you go.

Because I don't think that a hat will be enough this time.

....and please tell me that you don't own an assault weapon.

[JayHawk]

Apparently a thread reviewed by now by ALL the moderators and containing a varied and expressive conversation on gun control is now baiting.

Must be the answer when your crazy ass party has no legitimate argument. Cry foul and beg to be relieved of having to talk about it...." oh wait no one agrees with me?? OK then i will simply fill every post with my useless debunked claim that it is baiting."

Content and quality...psssshaaaaa... republicans dont need that ..they have conspiracy and rhetoric.