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  1. #51
    The Mother of Loki Laufey's Avatar
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    Re: The 9/11 attacks

    Just to make it clear I'm not into the whole "Islam is good, America is bad"... I fully realize that Islam, just like Christianity and other religions, has done great harm to people. Just in this particular case I think it has more to do with politics than religion.

    But I might appear that way to those who are narrow minded... since everyone who is critical in any way is a hater to you. The whole with us or against us attitude from the Bush era.
    Last edited by Laufey; December 14th, 2012 at 12:21 PM.

  2. #52
    WTF????? refujiunderground's Avatar
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    Re: The 9/11 attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by jktoooo View Post
    I'd say agnostic. I'm not religious by any means, don't pray none of that stuff but I believe in god, not the bible god or any of that stuff, but certainly a higher power. Also, I'm american indian so to some degree some of my beliefs are rooted in what we, as navajo, believe. But even then I question a lot of that stuff cause some of it doesn't seem believable to me.

    anyway, gotta go all. this drains my energy.....really.

    - - - Updated - - -





    uggghhhh......just no energy to deal with people who won't don't and refuse to even consider other alternatives. geez. bye.
    let me get this straight. you do realize that at one point of time in history in this country, you and your beliefs could have got you killed correct? you were seen as evil since you didn't believe what the population believed and etc. you could have been a regular joe BUT your belief made you deemed as being someone who had no place in society.

    now zoom up to this point and here you are doing the same thing that people have done in the past. who are you to trash someone for their beliefs and their belief system as well? how would you feel if let's say something crazy happened like what happened in connecticut where some agnostic person from some extremist group was responsible? how would you feel if america started to have this whole round up session with agnostic=terrorist so let's shit on all the agnostic people because they might shot up a middle school? just place yourself as one of those people who's muslim that is just like you where they have to watch themselves because they live in a world where people are intolerant and look down on them for what 5 people do outthere. just because there's some bad seeds doesn't give you or anybody else the right to shit on the whole muslim population or a belief. just show respect towards it and keep it moving.
    one thing about the closet/you don't have to hurry/it will be bad tomorrow/so brother, don't you worry

  3. #53
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: The 9/11 attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by jktoooo View Post
    No. You can't talk to those who listen. You just can't. anyway, gotta go. off to run errands.
    You're making it very obvious, jktoooo, that people in possession of facts you don't want to address will be written off as "just unwilling to listen."

    If what you want me to listen to is that none of those facts happen if they conflict with "Islam engenders every bad act by Muslim just because", then yeah, I guess we don't listen. Because that isn't reality.

  4. #54
    The Mother of Loki Laufey's Avatar
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    Re: The 9/11 attacks

    There were also times when it was okay for most Christian men to marry teenage girls.

    It's kinda stupid to fight about morals of people thousands of years ago.

  5. #55

    Re: The 9/11 attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by refujiunderground View Post
    let me get this straight. you do realize that at one point of time in history in this country, you and your beliefs could have got you killed correct? you were seen as evil since you didn't believe what the population believed and etc. you could have been a regular joe BUT your belief made you deemed as being someone who had no place in society.
    No. you are going on the assumption I believe as my people always have (I just stated that a lot that stuff I DON'T believe), and that the people who committed harm to american indians are still alive and I should crucify them. Well, NEWSFLASH: those people who did evil to american indians are long gone, dead. Why should I dwell on the past and what NEVER happened to me?

    Quote Originally Posted by refujiunderground View Post
    now zoom up to this point and here you are doing the same thing that people have done in the past. who are you to trash someone for their beliefs and their belief system as well?
    go back to my original posting and find where I "trashed' their belief? i merely stated what could be found in islamic teachings and books.

    AND I WILL ADD the difference is that the American government isn't still slaughtering american indians or teaching those things about us, BUT Islam still teaches to kill and hate and spread Islam anyway which way it can including violently like what happened on 9/11.

    THAT IS the difference.

  6. #56

    Re: The 9/11 attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Fritz-the-Cat View Post
    Not going to argue every point you made, but I'll just pick on a few sweet ones:

    Virgin Mary was probably 11-13 when married to Joseph, don't you know?
    Let's not forget about the child slaves when Canaan was conquered in the OT.
    Oh okay.....that makes it right then, right? Let's all go out and marry a child then.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fritz-the-Cat View Post
    Since when was Christianity good? Look at the Spanish Inquisition, the 300 years
    of witch hunts, etc. What makes any religion so proud that one can scorn another?

    And one other thing to consider, but it's just me:

    I don't think it's cool to desire Hell for anyone, for it takes a rather dark heart to have such longings.
    I'm not here to defend christianity dude. and pointing to past christian attrocities doesn't make all the evil committed by islamic crazies, it doesn't make their actions right.

  7. #57

    Re: The 9/11 attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    You're making it very obvious, jktoooo, that people in possession of facts you don't want to address will be written off as "just unwilling to listen."

    If what you want me to listen to is that none of those facts happen if they conflict with "Islam engenders every bad act by Muslim just because", then yeah, I guess we don't listen. Because that isn't reality.
    No not at all. I acknowledged a few things pointed out to me, and I didn't deny. I even admitted the US Foreign Affairs policies have been ignorant at best and even worse, just down right stupid many instances. But I also am not willing to rule out other alternatives.

    You are REFUSING to consider that their may be other factors in why 9/11 and all other Islamic violence happens.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fritz-the-Cat View Post
    I'm sorry, if you were including me in that statement, but I can't let someone discriminate about back then as though it were today.
    I guess we should all marry children then, since the Christians did it right?

  8. #58
    stop the bullshit rareboy's Avatar
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    Re: The 9/11 attacks

    The Islam that gave the world medicine and algebra and music and poetry is not the Islam of the fundamentalists.

    No more than Christianity is about all the proscriptions and violence of the old testament.

    But 9/11 as many have pointed out is about geo-politics....and oil.....and proxy wars between the US and USSR.

  9. #59
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: The 9/11 attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by jktoooo View Post
    Oh okay.....that makes it right then, right? Let's all go out and marry a child then.




    I'm not here to defend christianity dude. and pointing to past christian attrocities doesn't make all the evil committed by islamic crazies, it doesn't make their actions right.
    No one said it did. I did say, however, that Islam supports bad acts about as much as the Christian bible does, as it's entirely a matter of interpretation and emphasis. If the Old Testament were embraced as the legal basis of a theocratic society today, it wouldn't look much different from Sharia law, and it would involve a lot of cutting off of body parts and gouging of eyes and beating of kids and exiling people to die in the wilderness.

    So like I've said two or three times, you're out on a limb saying Islam does this 'more' than other religions or whatever else.

  10. #60

    Re: The 9/11 attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    No one said it did. I did say, however, that Islam supports bad acts about as much as the Christian bible does, as it's entirely a matter of interpretation and emphasis. If the Old Testament were embraced as the legal basis of a theocratic society today, it wouldn't look much different from Sharia law, and it would involve a lot of cutting off of body parts and gouging of eyes and beating of kids and exiling people to die in the wilderness.

    So like I've said two or three times, you're out on a limb saying Islam does this 'more' than other religions or whatever else.
    Look...you seem like a nice person (based on your visit to my other thread), you and Geiri85.

    You all keep pointing to Christianity to I guess justify the evil and violence that is PROMINENT in almost everything islamic, but even still it doesn't justify it by pointing to christianity. It just doesn't.

    And a response to your other statement - " So like I've said two or three times, you're out on a limb saying Islam does this 'more' than other religions or whatever else." - if Islam and Christianity are so much the same as it seems you are purporting, why don't we see rampant christian terror attacks (like on 9/11)? Rampant Christian beheadings of muslims and buddhists and jews? rampant christian honor killlings and rampant christian child marriages and rampant violent protesting to cartoons?

    why?

  11. #61
    The Mother of Loki Laufey's Avatar
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    Re: The 9/11 attacks

    There are many bad things about Islamic practice... but mostly to Muslims themselves rather than foreigners.

    It is very obvious that 9/11 was more about politics than religion. Which is why the US, Spain and the Uk were attacked rather than other free (Christian) countries.

    Most Muslims also consider Osama Bin Laden to be an infidel terrorist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fritz-the-Cat View Post
    I'm sorry, if you were including me in that statement, but I can't let someone discriminate about back then as though it were today.
    No it was not directed towards you.
    Last edited by Laufey; December 14th, 2012 at 01:24 PM.

  12. #62
    JUB Addict figjam's Avatar
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    Re: The 9/11 attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by CottonBolus View Post
    9/11 happened close to 12 years ago, I was 10 at the time; I think I was watching tv when it happened. The one image that still stays with me, more than a decade later is that of a woman with a bloodied wrist, her hand had been chopped off.

    What are your opinions on the event? Does anyone here know any of the "secrets" surrounding the attacks? And for those living in the New York area or who were close by or those who witnessed it with their own eyes, what did you see? What were you doing at the time of the attack?


    It's a devastating and extremely sad event and I wish more people had survived.


    Is it not Xmas?!

  13. #63
    The Mother of Loki Laufey's Avatar
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    Re: The 9/11 attacks

    I never said Saddam was working with Al-Qaeeda. In fact Al-qaeeda wasn't even in Iraq until the US invaded.

    But he and the Us were allies at one point. In fact the US has often been allies with dictators, sometimes even putting them in power.

    Us and al-qaeeda were allies agains the Soviet Union. US and Saddam were allies against Iran.

  14. #64
    JUB Addict figjam's Avatar
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    Re: The 9/11 attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Geiri85 View Post
    I never said Saddam was working with Al-Qaeeda. In fact Al-qaeeda wasn't even in Iraq until the US invaded.

    But he and the Us were allies at one point. In fact the US has often been allies with dictators, sometimes even putting them in power.

    Us and al-qaeeda were allies agains the Soviet Union. US and Saddam were allies against Iran.

    ....*snore*....

  15. #65
    WTF????? refujiunderground's Avatar
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    Re: The 9/11 attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Geiri85 View Post
    I never said Saddam was working with Al-Qaeeda. In fact Al-qaeeda wasn't even in Iraq until the US invaded.

    But he and the Us were allies at one point. In fact the US has often been allies with dictators, sometimes even putting them in power.
    Us and al-qaeeda were allies agains the Soviet Union. US and Saddam were allies against Iran.
    some of these folks only watch the news which is in itself propaganda and don't even bother to do the research which is accessible. they'll say that you're crazy even though what you're saying is well documented.
    one thing about the closet/you don't have to hurry/it will be bad tomorrow/so brother, don't you worry

  16. #66
    JUB Addict figjam's Avatar
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    Re: The 9/11 attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Geiri85 View Post
    Ignoring facts about 9/11 is a good example.

    Ignorant people are usually stubborn about not admitting when they are wrong. So they continue to spew their crap mostly based on feeling rather than facts.


    *yawn....*

  17. #67
    The Mother of Loki Laufey's Avatar
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    Re: The 9/11 attacks

    A lot of people here who like being in denial about their country always being the good guys.

  18. #68

    Re: The 9/11 attacks

    I agree with these people http://patriotsquestion911.com/ ....I have argued myself into silence otherwise on the subject...many years ago. They didnt' change my mind...nor me change theirs....

  19. #69
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: The 9/11 attacks

    Quote Originally Posted by jktoooo View Post
    Look...you seem like a nice person (based on your visit to my other thread), you and Geiri85.

    You all keep pointing to Christianity to I guess justify the evil and violence that is PROMINENT in almost everything islamic, but even still it doesn't justify it by pointing to christianity. It just doesn't.

    And a response to your other statement - " So like I've said two or three times, you're out on a limb saying Islam does this 'more' than other religions or whatever else." - if Islam and Christianity are so much the same as it seems you are purporting, why don't we see rampant christian terror attacks (like on 9/11)? Rampant Christian beheadings of muslims and buddhists and jews? rampant christian honor killlings and rampant christian child marriages and rampant violent protesting to cartoons?

    why?
    Because Christianity is like a thousand years older, has gone through a reformation, and for the most part encompasses the most advanced, wealthy, secular parts of the globe where the active practice of religion is all but completely dying off.

    What you're saying about Muslims reminds me of when a teacher of mine way back when scoffed at the idea of Communists as hard, monolithic, unchanging enemies who will always be evil/threatening/blah blah when he said ... "just wait until China opens up and gets a middle class and people start having houses and cars and computers and sitcoms, and watch them get just as apathetic and self centered as we are."

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