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No I'm speaking of statements directly from Al-Qaeeda.
I haven't seen Fahrenheit 911. I don't care much for Moore or left-right arguing in the US.
We're talking about the facts that the U.S. has a long history of imperialist intervention in the Middle East which has created a lot of angry sentiment, including and not limited to propping up dictators or buying off corrupt royal families in exchange for economic or military advantages and then helping to arm and support those regimes to stay in power as quid-pro-quo. Like I said, read Osama Bin Ladens list of grievances and then tell me foreign policy had absolutely nothing to do with why they were targetting the U.S. and not Denmark or Switzerland or Albania. According to your logic those should all be equally desirable targets if foreign policy has absolutely nothing to do with it.the "facts"? hilarious! You mean the Michael Moore fahrenheit 911 "facts"? Are those the "facts" you are referring to?
That hatred he had in him once he was indoctrinated and brainwashed with from when he was a little kid. Everything else at that point becomes an excuse. I gotta go. I have no energy for debating Islam and what role it has in today's Islamic societies (and it has far reaching affects), and debating with people who just won't listen, it does no good. No ill will towards you or anyone else here.
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ugghhh.......ditto what I wrote to Geiri85...... chow.
anyway, gotta go all. this drains my energy.....really.
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uggghhhh......just no energy to deal with people who won't don't and refuse to even consider other alternatives. geez. bye.
You always get tired of us when faced with facts you can't answer.
Both Saddam and Osama were allies with the US to begin with.
If I remember correctly Osama also lived in a pretty American-friendly environment, which he later rebelled against. So he was never brainwashed as a child.
Just to make it clear I'm not into the whole "Islam is good, America is bad"... I fully realize that Islam, just like Christianity and other religions, has done great harm to people. Just in this particular case I think it has more to do with politics than religion.
But I might appear that way to those who are narrow minded... since everyone who is critical in any way is a hater to you. The whole with us or against us attitude from the Bush era.
Last edited by Laufey; December 14th, 2012 at 12:21 PM.
now zoom up to this point and here you are doing the same thing that people have done in the past. who are you to trash someone for their beliefs and their belief system as well? how would you feel if let's say something crazy happened like what happened in connecticut where some agnostic person from some extremist group was responsible? how would you feel if america started to have this whole round up session with agnostic=terrorist so let's shit on all the agnostic people because they might shot up a middle school? just place yourself as one of those people who's muslim that is just like you where they have to watch themselves because they live in a world where people are intolerant and look down on them for what 5 people do outthere. just because there's some bad seeds doesn't give you or anybody else the right to shit on the whole muslim population or a belief. just show respect towards it and keep it moving.
If what you want me to listen to is that none of those facts happen if they conflict with "Islam engenders every bad act by Muslim just because", then yeah, I guess we don't listen. Because that isn't reality.
Not going to argue every point you made, but I'll just pick on a few sweet ones:
Let's not forget about the child slaves when Canaan was conquered in the OT.
Since when was Christianity good? Look at the Spanish Inquisition, the 300 yearsIt's sad. Muslims are the first victim of Islam. People just don't understand. I USED to be one of those people that made excuses for Islam. "Those terrorists take islam out of Context. Islam is a religion of peace." I said that a bunch of times, BEFORE and NOT KNOWING what exactly islam teaches in it's entirety.
of witch hunts, etc. What makes any religion so proud that one can scorn another?
And one other thing to consider, but it's just me:
I don't think it's cool to desire Hell for anyone, for it takes a rather dark heart to have such longings.If there is an afterlife, I hope those 19 PIGS are being tortured for the evil they committed.
There were also times when it was okay for most Christian men to marry teenage girls.
It's kinda stupid to fight about morals of people thousands of years ago.
AND I WILL ADD the difference is that the American government isn't still slaughtering american indians or teaching those things about us, BUT Islam still teaches to kill and hate and spread Islam anyway which way it can including violently like what happened on 9/11.
THAT IS the difference.
You are REFUSING to consider that their may be other factors in why 9/11 and all other Islamic violence happens.
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The Islam that gave the world medicine and algebra and music and poetry is not the Islam of the fundamentalists.
No more than Christianity is about all the proscriptions and violence of the old testament.
But 9/11 as many have pointed out is about geo-politics....and oil.....and proxy wars between the US and USSR.
So like I've said two or three times, you're out on a limb saying Islam does this 'more' than other religions or whatever else.
You all keep pointing to Christianity to I guess justify the evil and violence that is PROMINENT in almost everything islamic, but even still it doesn't justify it by pointing to christianity. It just doesn't.
And a response to your other statement - " So like I've said two or three times, you're out on a limb saying Islam does this 'more' than other religions or whatever else." - if Islam and Christianity are so much the same as it seems you are purporting, why don't we see rampant christian terror attacks (like on 9/11)? Rampant Christian beheadings of muslims and buddhists and jews? rampant christian honor killlings and rampant christian child marriages and rampant violent protesting to cartoons?
If you complain that Muhammad married a 6 year old,
you have to have a problem with God telling Joseph
to marry teenage Mary.
Are you in fact doing that very thing?
now, it sucked! You're right though, doesn't make it right, but 9/11 was not an
act of Islam! Al Qaeda may consider themselves as Muslims, but most Muslims
worldwide would say that Al Qaeda are not true Muslims.
Yes, sometimes truths are shocking that way.
Last edited by Fritz-the-Cat; December 14th, 2012 at 01:22 PM.
There are many bad things about Islamic practice... but mostly to Muslims themselves rather than foreigners.
It is very obvious that 9/11 was more about politics than religion. Which is why the US, Spain and the Uk were attacked rather than other free (Christian) countries.
Most Muslims also consider Osama Bin Laden to be an infidel terrorist.
Last edited by Laufey; December 14th, 2012 at 01:24 PM.
Last edited by Fritz-the-Cat; December 14th, 2012 at 01:33 PM.
I never said Saddam was working with Al-Qaeeda. In fact Al-qaeeda wasn't even in Iraq until the US invaded.
But he and the Us were allies at one point. In fact the US has often been allies with dictators, sometimes even putting them in power.
Us and al-qaeeda were allies agains the Soviet Union. US and Saddam were allies against Iran.
A lot of people here who like being in denial about their country always being the good guys.
I agree with these people http://patriotsquestion911.com/ ....I have argued myself into silence otherwise on the subject...many years ago. They didnt' change my mind...nor me change theirs....
What you're saying about Muslims reminds me of when a teacher of mine way back when scoffed at the idea of Communists as hard, monolithic, unchanging enemies who will always be evil/threatening/blah blah when he said ... "just wait until China opens up and gets a middle class and people start having houses and cars and computers and sitcoms, and watch them get just as apathetic and self centered as we are."