JustUsBoys.com gay porn forum

logo

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 345 ... LastLast
Results 151 to 200 of 261
  1. #151
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,110
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    This is talking point nonsense with no basis in reality.

    Btw Papa Johns and all these other dickheads saying they're going to cut employee wages or lay people off so that they can get around Obamacare are not small businesses. Also their statements to that effect have massively hurt their business, and now they're backpedalling hardcore and trying to pull a "we didn't mean it.."

    Oh also working for them sucks and their product sucks. So if their excuse is "we're struggling because of Obama's policies" too bad. Maybe if you weren't selling 6th rate "I'm starving so I don't really care what I eat" pizza and paying people minimum wage to make and deliver it you might be able to have a different business model where you actually pay people decently.
    Yes -- S-corporations are "small" only by lawyers' games.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  2. #152
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Posts
    10,753

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Job availability is low because of the Republican in Congress, who killed about five million jobs in job bills, one of which was drawn right out of the Republican playbook, and would have benefitted million of small businesses.

    And food stamps are at an all-time high because wages are so low people can work full-time and still qualify.

    All the effects you mention are the result of a deliberate campaign by the Republicans in Congress to keep anything good from happening while Obama is in office.
    Yup. The fact that minimum wage in this country does not reflect making enough money to do anything other than live at home (or with 4 roommates) and never own a house and probably have an extraordinarily difficult time even getting a car and never have anything more than pure survival money has nothing to do, I suppose, with the fact that so many people are on forms of assistance. I fail to see how the fact that minimum wage in most parts of the country falls beneath a real living wage is something Obama has anything to do with. On the contrary if he'd raised the minimum wage federally I'm sure Republicans would be here using that as yet more ammo that he "killed jobs/hiring."

    Let's also not forget that companies like Wal*Mart have used the fact that minimum wage is so low in this country to help their employees get onto welfare and social services to supplement their incomes off the taxpayer's dime. When these kinds of things go on people seriously want to come back and say it's Obama's fault that people are on food stamps and he should be doing more to make it CHEAPER for businesses to hire? Really? I suppose businesses shouldn't actually pay any payroll at all and everyone who works for them should just be getting government aid money directly rather than a paycheck?

  3. #153
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Posts
    10,753

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    P.S. http://money.cnn.com/2012/12/05/news...lds/index.html

    Labor experts say that the workers wages have fallen, and stand in sharp contrast to the performance of companies they work for. Corporate profits were up 19% in the third quarter, the greatest share of the economy in history.

    McDonald's (MCD, Fortune 500), the world's largest hamburger joint, hasn't fared so poorly. Last year, sales increased 12%.The largest U.S. retailer Wal-Mart (WMT, Fortune 500) hasn't fared so badly either. Even at the height of the recession in 2009, the company's sales rose 7%.

    Workers' wages, on the other hand, have fallen to their lowest-ever, as a share of the economy.

  4. #154
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Boystown, Chicago
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    8,930

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA Umpire View Post
    People are working 3 jobs not because one employer wouldn't pay them enough; rather, because an anti-jobs president and his minions have made it substantially more expensive to run a business and hire employees. There's a reason food stamps are at an all-time high, poverty is up, unemployment is high, jobs are disappearing, etc., and it's not freedom of choice in the work place that is doing this.
    hilariously sad

    no bearing on reality but please tell us more about the anti-job president

    so pathetic

    the snow drifts over

    hungry children cry

    badgers
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  5. #155
    veni, vidi, reliqui
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    33,669

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    ^ LOL

    People have been working more than one job for a lot longer than this president's term. The battering of the working class by the Engulf and Devour multi-nationals who have been consolidating all the small industry and shipping millions of jobs to where people will work for $1.00 per hour has been going on for over a decade.

    Umpire is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

    off base.

  6. #156
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Posts
    10,753

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    ^ LOL

    People have been working more than one job for a lot longer than this president's term. The battering of the working class by the Engulf and Devour multi-nationals who have been consolidating all the small industry and shipping millions of jobs to where people will work for $1.00 per hour has been going on for over a decade.

    Umpire is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

    off base.
    From the CIA World Facebook:

    "The onrush of technology largely explains the gradual development of a "two-tier labor market" in which those at the bottom lack the education and the professional/technical skills of those at the top and, more and more, fail to get comparable pay raises, health insurance coverage, and other benefits. Since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households."

    So unless Obama has secretly been pulling the strings behind all economic policy and business shifts since 1975 at least, no, he is not responsible for the general economic picture we are describing of low wages and less hiring.

  7. #157
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,110
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    P.S. http://money.cnn.com/2012/12/05/news...lds/index.html

    Labor experts say that the workers wages have fallen, and stand in sharp contrast to the performance of companies they work for. Corporate profits were up 19% in the third quarter, the greatest share of the economy in history.

    McDonald's (MCD, Fortune 500), the world's largest hamburger joint, hasn't fared so poorly. Last year, sales increased 12%.The largest U.S. retailer Wal-Mart (WMT, Fortune 500) hasn't fared so badly either. Even at the height of the recession in 2009, the company's sales rose 7%.

    Workers' wages, on the other hand, have fallen to their lowest-ever, as a share of the economy.
    Which means workers are contributing value and not getting paid for it. That's extortion.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  8. #158
    JockBoy87
    Guest

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA Umpire View Post
    Yet another person who has this mythical belief that all business owners are millionaires with a yacht. One of these days reality is going to slap you folks in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA Umpire View Post
    I have lived and live in reality, which is something JockBoy et. al. refuse to do, so-called hyperbole notwithstanding.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    JockBoy -- not all business owners are millionaires. I'm guessing many struggle to make ends meet just as some that might work for them.

    It's not right to categorize and then make judgements based on an image.
    Executives of corporations that have to deal with unions? You bet they are.

  9. #159
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    3,171

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Which means workers are contributing value and not getting paid for it. That's extortion.
    Total nonsense. There was a time, several years ago, when you had a rudimentary grasp of capitalism. What happened?

  10. #160
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Posts
    10,753

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Total nonsense. There was a time, several years ago, when you had a rudimentary grasp of capitalism. What happened?
    How exactly do you explain corporate profits going up and worker pay going down?

    You know it's really easy to make a snarky troll post like "you used to be SMART, what happened" but it's a lot harder to actually explain your position. Simply saying smart people already get it makes discussion pointless.

  11. #161
    JUB 10k Club
    jackoroe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    11,390

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    From the CIA World Facebook:

    "The onrush of technology largely explains the gradual development of a "two-tier labor market" in which those at the bottom lack the education and the professional/technical skills of those at the top and, more and more, fail to get comparable pay raises, health insurance coverage, and other benefits. Since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households."

    So unless Obama has secretly been pulling the strings behind all economic policy and business shifts since 1975 at least, no, he is not responsible for the general economic picture we are describing of low wages and less hiring.

    Let's put the farcical nonsense about income inequality to bed once and for all, OK?


    http://www.policymic.com/articles/12...ity-in-america

  12. #162
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Posts
    10,753

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by jackoroe View Post
    Let's put the farcical nonsense about income inequality to bed once and for all, OK?


    http://www.policymic.com/articles/12...ity-in-america
    Are you kidding me?

    This article doesn't deny the income inequality, it then just goes off on a list of rants about how the income equality "doesn't matter."

  13. #163
    JockBoy87
    Guest

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by jackoroe View Post
    Let's put the farcical nonsense about income inequality to bed once and for all, OK?


    http://www.policymic.com/articles/12...ity-in-america
    Amusing.

    The first set of graphs actually proves the point you were trying to refute.

  14. #164
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    3,171

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    How exactly do you explain corporate profits going up and worker pay going down?
    Insuficient data. The statement is much too general.

    You know it's really easy to make a snarky troll post like "you used to be SMART, what happened" but it's a lot harder to actually explain your position. Simply saying smart people already get it makes discussion pointless.
    That's not what I said. I said he used to show an understanding. The word smart was neither used nor implied.
    Last edited by opinterph; December 13th, 2012 at 07:12 PM. Reason: fixed quote tags

  15. #165
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Boystown, Chicago
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    8,930

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Are you kidding me?

    This article doesn't deny the income inequality, it then just goes off on a list of rants about how the income equality "doesn't matter."
    Oops
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  16. #166
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Boystown, Chicago
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    8,930

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    How exactly do you explain corporate profits going up and worker pay going down?
    Insuficient data. The statement is much too general.
    Wait, so you think that is NOT true?
    Last edited by opinterph; December 13th, 2012 at 07:13 PM. Reason: fixed quote tags
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  17. #167

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    And, for the most part, the lowest cost of living.
    Serfs don't have a lot of disposable income.

  18. #168

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA Umpire View Post
    People are working 3 jobs not because one employer wouldn't pay them enough; rather, because an anti-jobs president and his minions have made it substantially more expensive to run a business and hire employees. There's a reason food stamps are at an all-time high, poverty is up, unemployment is high, jobs are disappearing, etc., and it's not freedom of choice in the work place that is doing this.
    So people weren't working three jobs before President Obama was elected? Need I remind you that that corporate executive who used to run your state, and brought his Texas anti-tax, anti-regulation, anti-union, pro-corporation, pro-rich theory of governing to the federal government wrecked the economy and left President Obama with a country headed in the direction of a second "Great Depression." You call that living in reality? The truth is that you conservative Republicans live in an altered state of reality in which facts, science and mathematics cease to exist, a reality based on Rush Limbaugh talking points. Unbelievable.

  19. #169
    Friendly Fireman
    thewiz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Washington DC
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Married (to a man)
    Posts
    10,394

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Henry Ford, who wasn't exactly a lover of employees, understood capitalism: people have to have enough money to buy your product and, when they do, you make more money from more product sales. Walmart has lamented that its sales have slowed and same-store sales are not increasing at the rate it to which it grew accustomed.

    If one studies the emerging market areas of the world -- Mexico, China, and beyond -- you see what the lack of a middle class does. The worker labors for hours yet cannot afford to buy the product produced. As a result, the work is exported but with middle classes squeezed in mature markets, the enthusiasm and ability to purchase is also diminished. I was just in a meeting with Mexican officials who are discouraged because U.S. companies once flocked to that country to set up shop. After giving them practically anything they wanted, they have now abandoned the properties (often with contamination) and moved to China. I will bet as that market grows, they'll again move to even lower standard of living areas. But those at the top continue to pull in the wealth and the separation between haves and have-nots grows. Our capitalistic system is beginning to remind me more of a communist system found in the Soviet Union; those with the capability to influence government benefited while the average person nearly starved until the system collapsed.

  20. #170
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    3,171

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by palemale View Post
    Serfs don't have a lot of disposable income.
    LOL you're a riot.

  21. #171
    JUB 10k Club
    jackoroe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    11,390

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by JockBoy87 View Post
    Amusing.

    The first set of graphs actually proves the point you were trying to refute.

    Maybe reading the article?

    After the Reagan Administration lowered tax rates in the 1980s and the Bush Administration lowered them again in the 2000s, the incentives for the top quintile of income earners to report their income increased; therefore, the "government's" income data more accurately reflected true incomes compared with earlier periods. Lower tax rates also allow top income earners to keep more of their income and make "productive" choices instead of giving "their money" to the government. Although income inequality may look worse because of tax reform, reforming our tax system should continue to be at the forefront of political debates despite the myths about income inequality.
    So when tax rates were 71%, people at the top don't report as much of what they make as income. When we actually lower rates, people have an incentive to report more of what they make as income. The numbers went up in part because of changes to the tax laws, not because rich (and the top 20% bracket starts at about a paltry $80K per year) are getting unconscionable increases in income at the expense of the poor. The myth is busted.

  22. #172

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    What you are overlooking is that all the lagal burdens on employers count as the cost of labor to the company. They have be be considered part of the wages they are getting.. So if a woman and her lawyer collect 5 million because one employee pats a female employee on the butt, that is part of the wages the employees collect. Employees, unions and union bosses constitently work for "benefits" like that, without realizing that it is part of their wages i.e. cost of labor to the company. US employees are by far the highest paid in the world, but much is in the form of all the "benefits", like lawsuits, affirmative action, maternity leave etc etc..

  23. #173
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Boystown, Chicago
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    8,930

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    So let's get rid of employee protections then. Women are asking for it anyway, right? If I am understanding you correctly, I mean.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  24. #174
    JUB 10k Club
    jackoroe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    11,390

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Oh and by the way, we haven't discussed how well behaved the union thugs were at the Michigan protests. Let's see how the left peacefully protests.

    http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=u_F3o...%3Du_F3oev06i0

    Let's see, they assaulted the gentleman in the black leather jacket and purposely collapsed a tent that had people inside.

  25. #175
    JUB Addict T-Rexx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    4,897

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by jackoroe View Post
    Maybe reading the article?
    JockBoy is correct. The data presented (said to be from the U.S. Census Bureau) demonstrate quite the opposite of what the author is claiming. Look at it.

    Apparently, the author assumed most people wouldn't pay any attention to the data, and he could put one over on us.


    Quote Originally Posted by jackoroe View Post
    The myth is busted.
    Indeed. The myth the author is trying to foment has been busted.

  26. #176
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,110
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Total nonsense. There was a time, several years ago, when you had a rudimentary grasp of capitalism. What happened?
    Your version of capitalism is predatory, plunderer capitalism which is just a new form of serfdom.

    I know how capitalism works. I also know when it is working as a mechanism of greed that treats the workers as cattle. That variety, which the Republican party drools over, is the reason that unions are more necessary than before.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  27. #177

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    No, Roly, you do not understand. Ask the workers. Would you rather have higher wages for all, or higher windfalls for patted women and their lawyers? They need to realize that all those "benefits" reduce wages.

  28. #178
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Boystown, Chicago
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    8,930

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    No, Roly, you do not understand. Ask the workers. Would you rather have higher wages for all, or higher windfalls for patted women and their lawyers? They need to realize that all those "benefits" reduce wages.
    You are right, I don't understand. Do you mean women should NOT be protected from male co-workers' advances, so that everyone gets paid better? Please, help me understand.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  29. #179

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Your version of capitalism is predatory, plunderer capitalism which is just a new form of serfdom.

    I know how capitalism works. I also know when it is working as a mechanism of greed that treats the workers as cattle. That variety, which the Republican party drools over, is the reason that unions are more necessary than before.
    Look again. Unions--against private employers-- are on the way out, because they are winning, i.e. sucking their employers dry. It is the unions who are the predators, as proven by the demise of their employer/victoms.
    Unions warring against public entities are in a somewhat different situation. They suck the public dry and eventualy the public must revolt, as in WI and MI.
    Unions and their bosses have no ability to restrain their all-consuming greed.

  30. #180
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    3,171

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Your version of capitalism is predatory, plunderer capitalism which is just a new form of serfdom.

    I know how capitalism works. I also know when it is working as a mechanism of greed that treats the workers as cattle. That variety, which the Republican party drools over, is the reason that unions are more necessary than before.
    Oh, puh-leeze. Even the most jaded lefty doesn't believe that drivel.
    "Plunder capitalism" indeed. That's so funny my laughter might even make my headache go away.

  31. #181

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    You are right, I don't understand. Do you mean women should NOT be protected from male co-workers' advances, so that everyone gets paid better? Please, help me understand.
    Punish the co- worker. Corporations do not pat women on the butt. Or if the employees and their union bosses want huge windfalls for patted women and their lawyers, then they must realize it that is part of their salary.

  32. #182
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Boystown, Chicago
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    8,930

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    So "patted" women is as far as it ever goes? No case of actual rape?
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  33. #183
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,110
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Are you kidding me?

    This article doesn't deny the income inequality, it then just goes off on a list of rants about how the income equality "doesn't matter."
    It also hides the reality of things by keeping the discussion to mere quintiles. The real problem is the plundering class of the top half-percent.

    It also makes the claim that since the lower quintiles have seen income growth, it doesn't matter if the top has as well. That's totally bogus; it's like saying that in a race, the fact that the runners in the back are advancing makes it irrelevant that the guys in front are kicking their butts. The real problem is actually revealed in a very inane comparison between "Those who save and those who consume". Most people don't save because they can't: their incomes are so low they spend everything they get just to get by.

    And there's the real problem dragging at the economy: people making barely enough to get by aren't contributing much in terms of spending -- which is what makes the economy go -- because they have no actual discretionary income. So keeping wages low is not just bad for the people paid them, but for the economy as a whole.

    And that's bad for the wealthy: their wealth will grow more by paying people more. If they were really looking out for their own interests, they wouldn't bust unions by using law to limit people's rights, they'd make unions irrelevant by offering better wages, better benefits, and better working conditions than the unions have asked (in fact I worked at a store where a union came along and tried to organize us, but the reality was that the owner provided us with better on every point than what the union did -- he even had an arbitration process using an outside arbitrator! so we pretty much laughed the union reps back to their offices).

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  34. #184
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,110
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    How exactly do you explain corporate profits going up and worker pay going down?
    Wait, so you think that is NOT true?
    It's true, but the relationship for any give corporation is not necessarily causative. Just as one example, consider if the price of a rare earth element the corporation made use of suddenly plunged, but the corporation took its sweet time about passing on the savings: their profits would go up significantly without any change at all to worker pay.

    Applying supply and demand, which is in a way what the worker wage <-> corporate profit equation is dealing with, is not a simplistic or linear process except in textbooks. If one wants to know why a corporation has decreased the price of something -- in this case, labor -- you have to first look at ALL the things the corporation demands for making its products, and check their supply flow.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Insuficient data. The statement is much too general.



    That's not what I said. I said he used to show an understanding. The word smart was neither used nor implied.
    I still show an understanding. I just don't treat capitalists as demigods.
    Last edited by opinterph; December 13th, 2012 at 07:23 PM. Reason: fixed quote tags

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  35. #185
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Posts
    10,753

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by jackoroe View Post
    Maybe reading the article?

    So when tax rates were 71%, people at the top don't report as much of what they make as income. When we actually lower rates, people have an incentive to report more of what they make as income. The numbers went up in part because of changes to the tax laws, not because rich (and the top 20% bracket starts at about a paltry $80K per year) are getting unconscionable increases in income at the expense of the poor. The myth is busted.
    This article is a joke, Jack.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Your version of capitalism is predatory, plunderer capitalism which is just a new form of serfdom.

    I know how capitalism works. I also know when it is working as a mechanism of greed that treats the workers as cattle. That variety, which the Republican party drools over, is the reason that unions are more necessary than before.
    It's also crybaby capitalism. It's capitalism that believes in the free market--- until one can use the federal government, no bid contract awarding, regulatory changes or whatever else to procure monopolies. It's capitalism that believes in survival of the fittest in the free market--- as a rule for others, but when YOUR business is in trouble, it's time for bailouts or you're Too Big To Fail. Also corporate welfare and chapter 11.

    When all these absolute pinnacles of capitalist ideology like the banks and the big manufacturers were in trouble what'd they do? Come to the government with their hats in their hand and ask for handouts. People who in any other discussion would say if you don't have health coverage from your job, go get a third job or start a health savings account and stop being so irresponsible. It's pretty sickening.

  36. #186
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,110
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by thewiz View Post
    Henry Ford, who wasn't exactly a lover of employees, understood capitalism: people have to have enough money to buy your product and, when they do, you make more money from more product sales. Walmart has lamented that its sales have slowed and same-store sales are not increasing at the rate it to which it grew accustomed.

    If one studies the emerging market areas of the world -- Mexico, China, and beyond -- you see what the lack of a middle class does. The worker labors for hours yet cannot afford to buy the product produced. As a result, the work is exported but with middle classes squeezed in mature markets, the enthusiasm and ability to purchase is also diminished. I was just in a meeting with Mexican officials who are discouraged because U.S. companies once flocked to that country to set up shop. After giving them practically anything they wanted, they have now abandoned the properties (often with contamination) and moved to China. I will bet as that market grows, they'll again move to even lower standard of living areas. But those at the top continue to pull in the wealth and the separation between haves and have-nots grows. Our capitalistic system is beginning to remind me more of a communist system found in the Soviet Union; those with the capability to influence government benefited while the average person nearly starved until the system collapsed.
    That's a good measure of fair pay for most products: if the worker can't afford what they're making, there's a problem. But it isn't universal: I knew some people in Salk Lake City who were making cruise missiles; there's no way they could have been paid enough that they could buy one. Similarly, people who work on custom Rolls autos are in the same situation.

    But Ford knew something else today's tycoons don't care about: it's better for the local community and for the whole country if the executives aren't bleeding off vast amounts of the company revenues for themselves: he settled for earning four times what his workers did -- today's execs can't even settle for fifty times what the workers make.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  37. #187
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,110
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    What you are overlooking is that all the lagal burdens on employers count as the cost of labor to the company. They have be be considered part of the wages they are getting.. So if a woman and her lawyer collect 5 million because one employee pats a female employee on the butt, that is part of the wages the employees collect. Employees, unions and union bosses constitently work for "benefits" like that, without realizing that it is part of their wages i.e. cost of labor to the company. US employees are by far the highest paid in the world, but much is in the form of all the "benefits", like lawsuits, affirmative action, maternity leave etc etc..
    Now that's the sourest bullshit I've heard in a long time. Company expenses are not part of employee compensation.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  38. #188
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,110
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by jackoroe View Post
    Oh and by the way, we haven't discussed how well behaved the union thugs were at the Michigan protests. Let's see how the left peacefully protests.

    http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=u_F3o...%3Du_F3oev06i0

    Let's see, they assaulted the gentleman in the black leather jacket and purposely collapsed a tent that had people inside.
    Worthless claim, because that link doesn't go anywhere.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  39. #189
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,110
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Oh, puh-leeze. Even the most jaded lefty doesn't believe that drivel.
    "Plunder capitalism" indeed. That's so funny my laughter might even make my headache go away.
    Any unearned income is plunder -- the income belongs to those who actually do the work. When that income is significantly due to government rigging the system in favor of that unearned income, it's definitely plunder.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  40. #190
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,110
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    So "patted" women is as far as it ever goes? No case of actual rape?
    He's overlooking the fact that no emplower is liable for the actions of a mere employee unless that employee is officially acting for the company. If one worker molests another, the issue is either between the two, or if there's a union, an internal union affair.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  41. #191
    Bammer's Papa
    Kulindahr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    on the foggy, damp, redneck Oregon coast
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Bisexual
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    104,110
    Blog Entries
    78

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    It's also crybaby capitalism. It's capitalism that believes in the free market--- until one can use the federal government, no bid contract awarding, regulatory changes or whatever else to procure monopolies. It's capitalism that believes in survival of the fittest in the free market--- as a rule for others, but when YOUR business is in trouble, it's time for bailouts or you're Too Big To Fail. Also corporate welfare and chapter 11.

    When all these absolute pinnacles of capitalist ideology like the banks and the big manufacturers were in trouble what'd they do? Come to the government with their hats in their hand and ask for handouts. People who in any other discussion would say if you don't have health coverage from your job, go get a third job or start a health savings account and stop being so irresponsible. It's pretty sickening.
    It's because our corporations no longer practice free-market capitalism, they're into corporatism.

    Remember that corporatism isn't far from fascism.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  42. #192
    Virtus in medio stat JUB Admin opinterph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Jawja
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    21,823
    Blog Entries
    14

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    He's overlooking the fact that no emplower is liable for the actions of a mere employee unless that employee is officially acting for the company. If one worker molests another, the issue is either between the two, or if there's a union, an internal union affair.
    Employers are liable for the actions of their employees if they have knowledge of prior abuse, if they fail to exercise due diligence in pre-screening their employee recruits, if they fail to take reasonable steps to prevent abuse, or if they fail to take action when abuse is properly reported to them. In some cases the liability can be personal to managers or other persons in positions of responsibility.

  43. #193
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Partnered
    Posts
    3,171

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Any unearned income is plunder -- the income belongs to those who actually do the work. When that income is significantly due to government rigging the system in favor of that unearned income, it's definitely plunder.
    NO. The income belongs to the investors who put up the money and take the risk. The people who actually do the work have agreed to perform specific tasks for specific pay and that is their reward.

  44. #194
    Banned chance1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NYC
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    21,386

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    back to the real issue .....

    as Rich Lowry capably points out - a good read people - open your minds to writers outside of your comfy zone

    this is a particularly galling sitch for the progressives as Michigan is the birth home of unionization - michigan and unionization are connected in a big way

    when unions began there it was just

    today, unions are being undone organically by economic realities

    neighboring Indiana, a right to work state - is booming - adding 43k jobs while michigan has lost 7k

    michigan has a big pool of experienced autoworkers yet no car co. would come

    election day 2008 saw michigan go for pres. obama but did u know that more than the # of voters who went democrat voted "no" to an amendment that would ban right to work

    interesting

    did u know that in wisconsin, after gov. walker ended mandatory dues for public sector unions, the AFSCME lost 1/2 its members

    HALF !!

    isn't choice good ??

    Unionization rates - 1983 20%; 2011 12%

    the times they are a changing

    Happy holidays

    is this thread about gay marriage?

    http://www.nationalreview.com/author/56473/latest#

  45. #195
    Friendly Fireman
    thewiz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Washington DC
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Married (to a man)
    Posts
    10,394

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    One of the substantial differences in our manufacturing base today is the rise of venture capitalism. In days gone by -- even the Carnegies and Rockafellers knew that you worked, built a company up and profited. I worked with many people who started industries from a garage and became multimillionaires. They involved themselves in the community; they encouraged their employees to be active in the community; they were philanthropic. Look at the VanAndels and DeVos' who own Amway -- they contributed many millions and continue to do so. Take a look at downtown Grand Rapids and what their contributions have created.

    Today, with venture capitalism, you buy a company and extract all the value then either dump the company or close it through bankruptcy. The value is extracted rather than invested; it is frightening.

  46. #196

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Any unearned income is plunder -- the income belongs to those who actually do the work. When that income is significantly due to government rigging the system in favor of that unearned income, it's definitely plunder.
    Pure Marxism. Marx's labor theory of value. If the investors and management are entitled to nothing why would they provide jobs. Why would employees work for someone else who contributes nothing. You communism doesn't work.

  47. #197
    JUB 10k Club
    CTF's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    El corazón de Tejas
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Dating
    Posts
    20,054
    Blog Entries
    23

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by opinterph View Post
    Employers are liable for the actions of their employees if they have knowledge of prior abuse, if they fail to exercise due diligence in pre-screening their employee recruits, if they fail to take reasonable steps to prevent abuse, or if they fail to take action when abuse is properly reported to them. In some cases the liability can be personal to managers or other persons in positions of responsibility.
    True!

    And would it not be fair to say that some corporations factor in the legal costs, and justifications as a liability for not paying them more?

    In the company that I work for, part of my "executive benefits," along with Medical, Dental, and Eye Care, is "legal insurance" in case there's ever a lawsuit brought against as an employee of my company.

    I read the fine print.

    Which means that if my Sister and Brother In Law decide to file a suit against me to contest our parent's will, for $7 a month, I already have a legal team to defend me.

    That protection alone is worth more than "dental."

    But on a more serious note, "hourly employees" are also representatives of the Corporations that they work for.

    Which, by the very fact that those corporations hired them, therefore make the Corporations liable for that employee's actions.

    And the Company that I work for insists that those employees acknowledge, and sign a disclaimer should they ever be personally charged with violations of local, state, or Federal Laws, and that they are not only willing to comply, but as their Manager I'm responsible if I didn't take them through those steps on the day that they are HIRED to work for the company.

    Which then makes me personally liable.

    That's what "right to work" laws mean.
    Never regret anything, because in that moment it's exactly what you wanted.

  48. #198

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Typically the woman claims that she was so upset she couldn't work, so it becomes " constructive discharge"and employment discrimination in violation of Federal law.
    But that was only one example of all the burdens imposed upon employers which go to make up cost of labor from the point of view of the Employer. When the unions and bosses require the Democrats to impose the burdens, the employees do not realize that these burdens are in lieu of higher wages.

  49. #199

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Now that's the sourest bullshit I've heard in a long time. Company expenses are not part of employee compensation.
    From the point of view of the employer they are. Look at it this way: when the employer decides what price to charge, it must compute his cost, which includes labor, which includes lawsuits by employers, social security, affirmative action hires, token employees, unemployment insurance, workers compensation insurance, health care (now including kids up to age 25) maternity leave, premium for union members, on an on and on. So then when it decides how much it can afford to pay in salaries, all these things reduce the amount it can pay in salaries.
    If the foreign competition can charge less without some of these burdens the company is in trouble.

  50. #200
    Porn Star NCAA Umpire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Gender
    Male
    Orientation
    Gay
    Status
    Single
    Posts
    416

    Code of Conduct

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by palemale View Post
    So people weren't working three jobs before President Obama was elected? Need I remind you that that corporate executive who used to run your state, and brought his Texas anti-tax, anti-regulation, anti-union, pro-corporation, pro-rich theory of governing to the federal government wrecked the economy and left President Obama with a country headed in the direction of a second "Great Depression." You call that living in reality? The truth is that you conservative Republicans live in an altered state of reality in which facts, science and mathematics cease to exist, a reality based on Rush Limbaugh talking points. Unbelievable.
    A. I'm not a conservative Republican.
    B. Bush didn't "wreck" the economy (your Kool-Aid drinking notwithstanding).
    Wendy Davis: Fraud, User, Idiot

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | About JustUsBoys.com | Site Map | RSS | Webmasters | Advertise | Link to JUB | Report A Bug on this Page

Visit our sister sites: Broke Straight Boys | CollegeDudes.com | CollegeBoyPhysicals.com | RocketTube
All models appearing on JustUsBoys.com were over 18 at the time of photography. The records for sexually explicit images required by U.S. 2257 are kept by the
individual producers of the images. The location of the records is available by clicking the Custodian of Records link at the bottom of each gallery page.
© 2012 JustUsBoys.com. The JustUsBoys.com name and logo are registered trademarks. Labeled with ICRA and RTA. Member of ASACP and The Free Speech Coalition.