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Thread: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

      
   
  1. #101
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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA Umpire View Post
    It is much better to have 100 people making $60K each than 50 people making $70K each. It helps them, and it helps the economy. It also increases tax revenue, something liberals love.
    False dichotomy.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    In point of fact the record shows that right to work states have better paying jobs and lower unemployment.

    http://www.insideindianabusiness.com...rs.asp?id=1189

    http://news.investors.com/ibd-editor...tter-wages.htm


    These are merly two or the many articles I found,
    The top article is spinning bullshit because it doesn't identify the starting conditions. Just as an illustration, as a high school freshman playing basketball I got the team's "Most Improved Player" award. One might expect that the award meant I was a great player, but at best I was mediocre -- what it actually meant was that I started off as a piss-poor joke on the court but became good enough I wasn't a total embarrassment.

    Identifying starting conditions is essential.



    The second article is a bit better but is short on specifics.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Economics.

    .
    Define "fair" pay. I'm not at all certain that it can reasonably be done. After all, there are some, perhaps, many, jobs that are only worth so much.

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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Right to Work states might have more jobs but what kind? Something tells me it's of the minimum wage kind

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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by Benvolio View Post
    The reason for the lack of progress on wages is our continued policy of allowing massive immigration, legal and illegal. They are willing to work hard and cheap, so they bring the wage levels down for all but the most skilled. Legal immigrants get the benefit of affirmative action programs to get hiring preferences over Americans, and the benefit of anti-discrimination laws. It is illegal to prefer Americans.
    Or another way of looking at that is neither the Democrats nor the Republicans want to see a change in that status quo.

    When "Democrats" start to make some money, then they start to vote and think like Republicans; and suddenly they want to protect their own marginal incomes at any cost.

    When in reality they aren't really making anything compared to the huge profits that the Corporations that they're working for get from tax subsidies, "corporate welfare," and "tax loopholes."

    Wait for it:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Jockboy -- greed on both sides is a problem.

    But since this thread is about unions. No way should anyone be paid $100/hour plus a pension and benefits for life for aligning car doors or pushing a button for a robot to paint a car.
    But it's okay for Corporations and groups like Bain Capital to buy companies, bust up what made them great American Companies to work for, and use those very same 'pensions and benefits' to fuck the guys who spent years trudging to work everyday working for a company that they felt was not only solvent, but was providing a product to their communities, and to their country.

    Unions have pushed manufacturing out of the USA by greed.
    That's the mantra from the right now isn't it?

    So who's going to eventually look out for the workers in Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, and China?

    You know, those "statistics" that we here about on the News here in America who are dieing in fires because they have no safety measures to protect their employees?

    Who are being paid NOW by American Corporations to manufacture underwear with American Labels, but who refuse to spend just ten cents more per garment to ensure the safety of someone who might be taking home $30 a month.

    Yes, INDEED, it's the UNION's Fault.

    A recent example is the small baker's union causing 18,000 people to lose their jobs making twinkies(r) and dingdongs(r). I doubt if there is one person in the US that begrudges anyone from making a fair wage - just not an excessive one for doing little.
    Yes, and both of the posts that I just quoted exemplify the thinking that has brought down Modern Democracies in the past 100 years.

    Martin Niemoller exemplified it best:

    First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--
    Because I was not a Socialist.

    Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--
    Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
    Because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.
    So will you be standing in line at your local Walmart this Christmas, or going through the "self check out?"

    Which in itself cost several non union hourly waged jobs, and saved Walmart tens of thousands of dollars in wages in benefits to close down 4 to 8 more registers.


    Show me where, compared to Unions, that American Corporations have actually contributed to the Quality of Life of most of your fellow Americans.

    Any link, any example beyond the superficial would be appreciated.
    Last edited by CTF; December 12th, 2012 at 05:15 PM.
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  6. #106

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja108 View Post
    Right to Work states might have more jobs but what kind? Something tells me it's of the minimum wage kind
    Seven of the ten poorest states (i.e. lowest median family income), are right-to-work for less states. Nine of the ten richest states (i.e. highest median family income) are not right-to-work for less states. Strong unions redistribute wealth to working people are create a strong middle class.

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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Why do you automatically assume that the pay isn't fair already?
    Because I can compare (and did compare) Non-union foreign auto workers in the south to the Detroit UAW. That idea worked well in the south because cost of living and jobs paid so much less in those red states but it does not work well in Northern states.

    Let me ask you this. Why is Walmart fighting tooth and nail to Prevent it's workers from unionizing? Is it because they are so fairly paying their workers? Or is it because they would have to face a much more formative opponent when they treat workers unfairly.

    I have been a huge opponent of Unions when they do things that make you scratch your head like the behavior of the above Chrysler article.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Define "fair" pay. I'm not at all certain that it can reasonably be done. After all, there are some, perhaps, many, jobs that are only worth so much.
    The minimum wage cannot pay for a human being to live in a cheap apartment nor afford food. That is what is at issue with such low paying jobs.

    http://www.raisetheminimumwage.com/facts/

    Facts

    $10.55
    How much the federal minimum wage would be if it had kept up with inflation over the past 40 years. Instead, it’s $7.25. Learn More

    $15,080
    The annual income for a full-time employee working the entire year at the federal minimum wage.

    0
    The number of states where a minimum wage worker can afford a two-bedroom apartment working a 40-hour week. Learn More

    3
    The number of times Congress passed legislation to increase the minimum wage in the last 30 years.

    19
    The number of states (including the District of Columbia) which have raised their minimum wage above the federal level of $7.25.

    10
    The number of states that annually increase their state minimum to keep up with the rising cost of living.

    67
    The percentage of Americans that support gradually raising the minimum wage from $7.25 an hour to at least $10.00 an hour, according to an October 2010 poll.

    64 in 100 vs. 4 in 100
    What are the chances an adult minimum wage worker is a woman vs. the chances a Fortune 500 CEO is a woman? Learn More

    76
    The percentage of Missouri voters that voted to increase and index the Misourri minimum wage in the 2006 ballot initiative.

    $2.13
    The federal minimum wage for tipped employees, such as waiters and waitresses, nail salon workers, or parking attendants.
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    ^ I worked in management for Walmart for nearly five years.

    Walmart "Corporate" will be the first ones to tell you that they're not opposed to "Unions."

    (Because many of the Unions are responsible for their "state of the art logistics systems," but only as contractors.)

    Just like the same people who are living and dieing in the sweat shops that they contract to manufacture goods with American names use "subcontractors" keep you Saving More, and Living Better.

    They just have all of their "hourly" staff convinced that Walmart's "Open Door Policy" regarding Walmart is so much more superior to having "Union Reps."

    Meaning that from Walmart's perspective they can demote you, humiliate you, cut your hours, and then benefits, that as an "hourly associate" you'd be stupid to complain.

    Oh, and Walmart has other measures to deal with employees who want to organize.

    They're big enough to shut down an entire store.

    Each time you drive past a Walmart Super Center, know that it employs (on average) 300 people.

    The city that the Walmart Super Center is located in gave tens of thousands of dollars in "tax subsidies" fpr Walmart to build there; infrastructure, tax abatements, you name it. Usually for a 10 years or more "contract" with that municipality.

    Walmart deciding to close, or relocate could bankrupt a local town just in legal fees alone in breaking that contract.

    So most folks who think that they're getting the raw end of the deal in how they're treated as American Workers for Walmart, have other external pressures to avoid Unions.

    And let's not forget the topic of this discussion; "right-to-work" laws make it possible for Corporations to continue to operate that way.
    Last edited by CTF; December 12th, 2012 at 06:30 PM.
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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Let me ask you this. Why is Walmart fighting tooth and nail to Prevent it's workers from unionizing? .
    Because if they submit to union blackmail, Walmart will have to raise its prices to levels that are no longer competitive.
    I hope they never, ever give in. I'd rather see them close their stores than go union.

    Unions serve no useful purpose in today's world.

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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    The minimum wage cannot pay for a human being to live in a cheap apartment nor afford food. That is what is at issue with such low paying jobs.

    [url]
    The minimum wage doesn't serve that purpose. Do some research and you will find that most people working for minimum wage are not bread winners. Housewives, teenagers, students, etc start out at minimum wage because they can.

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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by centexfarmer View Post
    ^.)
    ."

    .

    They're big enough to shut down an entire store.

    .
    One can only hope that Walmart has the balls to stand their ground and do just that, rather than submitting to extortion.

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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    One can only hope that Walmart has the balls to stand their ground and do just that, rather than submitting to extortion.
    Walmart has a bevy of Lawyers who are on 24/7/365 standby to remind every City Manager, Mayor, City Council, and Local Chamber of Commerce what's at stake.

    Please don't make it sound like Corporate America is "hanging by a thread" here.
    Never regret anything, because in that moment it's exactly what you wanted.

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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Because if they submit to union blackmail, Walmart will have to raise its prices to levels that are no longer competitive.
    I hope they never, ever give in. I'd rather see them close their stores than go union.

    Unions serve no useful purpose in today's world.
    Unions serve a useful purpose in today's world.
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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    The minimum wage doesn't serve that purpose. Do some research and you will find that most people working for minimum wage are not bread winners. Housewives, teenagers, students, etc start out at minimum wage because they can.
    Doing some research, one finds out that not everyone lives in a nuclear family, and many people can only find minimum wage job, with no other support. You don't care about those?
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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    The minimum wage doesn't serve that purpose. Do some research and you will find that most people working for minimum wage are not bread winners. Housewives, teenagers, students, etc start out at minimum wage because they can.
    Feel free to do some research yourself before making spurious claims.

    http://www.nelp.org/page/-/Final%20o...11.pdf?nocdn=1

    The majority of the jobs being crated post recession are low wage and not able to sustain a household but that is where people find themselves because that is all the type of jobs that exist. Now have you some sort of actual research of cite that indicates the majority of minimum wage jobs are for people who don't support themselves?
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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by loki81 View Post
    and under this law, you'd be free to make that choice.

    I have a hard time believing that non-compulsory unions would herald an era of 90-hour work weeks with no vacation or benefits whatsoever.
    Until the unions are destroyed, because they can't continue to operate after they've lost 43% or 70% of the dues they used to collect, or at the very least the union can no longer be an effective asset in cases where their help is most needed.

    Then I wouldn't be able to choose to join a union at all...because they wouldn't exist.

    Hello to those 90-hour workweeks (AFTER, once the unions are destroyed and Republicans are pulling the strings, they have also repealed all minimum wage laws), and no benefits, no retirement, nothing.

    The days of the Triangle Shirt Waist factory (a/k/a a virtual concentration camp for workers, with no safety precautions at all) would return. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangl...t_Factory_fire

    Does your diet of potatoes, bananas, eggs, and ramen taste good?

    Quote Originally Posted by eastofeden View Post
    The people who want to bust the unions and force people to work for very little with no benefits are the same people who do not want any form of universal health care. They dont' want to say it so I will..They want to enslave people to line their pockets with $$$ and when their slaves get sick...they just die? Not really hard to understand why so many people accurately assess the party as evil.

    Bottom line...when 90% of the people own 10% of the wealth...and 10% of the people own 90% of the wealth...there is this little thing called revolution. Unions were the buffer. The greed of the Republican Party will eventually kill capitalism...maybe sooner than later.
    They're entirely OK with those people just dying. Those people are expendable. They're nothing but useless eaters who collect welfare, freeloaders who don't pay taxes. (Yeah, right.)

    It's heading more toward the day when 3% will hold 97% of the wealth, and 97% will hold the other 3% of wealth. Even at my age, I expect to start seeing the world's first TRILLIONAIRES in my lifetime.

    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA Umpire View Post
    It is much better to have 100 people making $60K each than 50 people making $70K each. It helps them, and it helps the economy. It also increases tax revenue, something liberals love.
    It would be more like 90 people making $16 to $20K each, 8 people making $20K to $100K each, and 2 people making mostly $500 to $20,000K each.

    No, scratch that. Of those 90 people, half of them would be below $10K per year each, with minimum wage repealed.

    Quote Originally Posted by palemale View Post
    Seven of the ten poorest states (i.e. lowest median family income), are right-to-work for less states. Nine of the ten richest states (i.e. highest median family income) are not right-to-work for less states. Strong unions redistribute wealth to working people are create a strong middle class.
    It's not even a question of REDISTRIBUTION of wealth...it's a question of paying people "their worth" for allowing their employers to continue to do business. Without the labor, those companies ain't shit. The feedback loop thus created, by those people spending a lot more money on consumption than they currently can, creates more jobs to fill the demand.

    That assumes, of course, that some of the additional goods consumed, are actually built in the same country where they are consumed which, from my geographic point of view, means "more American jobs" rather than opening more and more factories in China or Viet Nam. (And, after all, the politics involved in this UNION BUSTING are uniquely, or close to uniquely, American.)
    Last edited by frankfrank; December 12th, 2012 at 06:57 PM.
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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    The majority of the jobs being crated...
    Freudian Slip?

    Last edited by CTF; December 12th, 2012 at 07:10 PM.
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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Jungian... Freud was much more into his Mother than I am.....
    Everyone can be great, because everyone can serve.
    ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.


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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    ^ And sometimes 'a banana is just a banana.'
    Never regret anything, because in that moment it's exactly what you wanted.

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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    Define "fair" pay. I'm not at all certain that it can reasonably be done. After all, there are some, perhaps, many, jobs that are only worth so much.
    Fair pay is when the workers and the owners both gain at the same rate -- that's the maximum for the owner.

    That's what's wrong with our system at the moment: the wealth of the wealthy increases more after taxes than that of the poor. That indicates that wealth is being redistributed upwards.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Feel free to do some research yourself before making spurious claims.

    http://www.nelp.org/page/-/Final%20o...11.pdf?nocdn=1

    The majority of the jobs being crated post recession are low wage and not able to sustain a household but that is where people find themselves because that is all the type of jobs that exist. Now have you some sort of actual research of cite that indicates the majority of minimum wage jobs are for people who don't support themselves?
    This is why the accusation that Obama is deliberately trying to get more people on food stamps, etc., is so ludicrous: the ones putting people on food stamps is employers.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Two things:

    1. If you go back fifty years and run the minimum wage, today's should be up around $19/hr.

    2. Unions are not engaging in extortion, they're leveling the playing field. Corporations love right-to-work, because then they can gang up on the individual workers and by intimidation keep them from obtaining better wages. They hate unions because unions put a large number of people into play so they're on par with the corporation, which has armies of negotiators and lawyers and more to throw against the lone worker.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    It's hard to feel sorry for the Dems in Michigan when all of this could have been prevented at the polls....Michigan is simply another Democratic State that fell for the Okey-doke...."Vote for me I'm an HONEST Republican, I'm a moderate, I lean to the Center, I'm not far to the Right..Trust me I won't Fuck you in the end..".....LOL.....Yeah, right....

    If you elect Republicans for the House, Senate & Governorship expect them to pass Conservative leaning bills....Duh...Wake up Dems...Wake up....



    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    but... n**ga please
    Rolyo you've stated in this forum that you are Bulgarian. Now Bulgarians might refer to each other as "nigga this and nigga that" but that's NOT accepted on JUB....This site is a melting pot of races and we have to Respect each other and stay away from expressing thoughts using derogatory words/terms...It says a lot about the individual...

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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    Feel free to do some research yourself before making spurious claims.

    []. Now have you some sort of actual research of cite that indicates the majority of minimum wage jobs are for people who don't support themselves?
    You are dissembling, but here are some government statistics,


    http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2011.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterMajestic View Post
    Rolyo you've stated in this forum that you are Bulgarian. Now Bulgarians might refer to each other as "nigga this and nigga that" but that's NOT accepted on JUB....This site is a melting pot of races and we have to Respect each other and stay away from expressing thoughts using derogatory words/terms...It says a lot about the individual...
    1. Haven't used that word.
    2. It's obviously a joke.
    3. Nobody likes a guy who's always offended.
    4. Sorry, meant no offense, really.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    False dichotomy.
    But still economic reality.
    "I shall pass this way but once. Any good that I can do, or any kindness I can give to any human being, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again."

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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    The minimum wage cannot pay for a human being to live in a cheap apartment nor afford food. That is what is at issue with such low paying jobs.

    http://www.raisetheminimumwage.com/facts/
    The minimum wage is one of the biggest salary suppressors out there. It needs to be abolished if people are going to make some real money.
    "I shall pass this way but once. Any good that I can do, or any kindness I can give to any human being, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again."

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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA Umpire View Post
    The minimum wage is one of the biggest salary suppressors out there. It needs to be abolished if people are going to make some real money.
    That's true.

    But, if we really want rich people to make some "real money," we should bring back slavery.

  30. #130

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryReardon View Post
    You are dissembling, but here are some government statistics,


    http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2011.pdf
    Interesting statistic in the document you cite. Over 54% of the minimum wage workers in the country are in the South. The South, of course, has the lowest union density. The South is also the poorest part of the country, tends to have the lowest levels of education.

    Luckily for the South, it lost the Civil War. Had it won, it would be a third world country today, mired in slavery, serfdom, ignorance and institutionalized government violence against the population.

  31. #131

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Slavery is freedom from employment and money worry, and class envy. Palemale's malreporting needs rectification.

  32. #132
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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    And what got them down safely and all the passengers off alive was a pair of checklists.
    Don't discount the possibility that union rules may have helped. Perhaps one that limits flying time for pilots?

    Quote Originally Posted by purina View Post
    Slavery is freedom...
    Arbeit macht frei.
    Last edited by JockBoy87; December 13th, 2012 at 05:10 AM.

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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by palemale View Post
    Interesting statistic in the document you cite. Over 54% of the minimum wage workers in the country are in the South. The South, of course, has the lowest union density. The South is also the poorest part of the country, tends to have the lowest levels of education.

    Luckily for the South, it lost the Civil War. Had it won, it would be a third world country today, mired in slavery, serfdom, ignorance and institutionalized government violence against the population.

    As a number of people have pointed out...all the states making themselves 'right to work' states in order to steal jobs from the neighbouring states are just in a death race to the bottom.

    Good luck with that folks.

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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by rareboy View Post
    As a number of people have pointed out...all the states making themselves 'right to work' states in order to steal jobs from the neighbouring states are just in a death race to the bottom.

    Good luck with that folks.
    Moral leadership is a rejection of pusillanimity, corruption, and propaganda, which effects everyone regardless of income, but especially the poor. Poverty, hunger, health, these are political problems, and that they are least in liberal states is no coincidence.

  35. #135

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Can any of the union supporters explain why it's acceptable and good for union workers to want higher wages, more benefits, bigger pension and it's not OK for business owners to want the same thing?
    "That’s the good thing about being president. I can do whatever I want.” Barack Obama, 2-10-14

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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Springer View Post
    Can any of the union supporters explain why it's acceptable and good for union workers to want higher wages, more benefits, bigger pension and it's not OK for business owners to want the same thing?
    Because money is not the same when you are staving off privation in your own home.

    Let's work on working class poverty before worrying about millionaires contemplating a second yacht.
    Last edited by JockBoy87; December 13th, 2012 at 06:36 AM.

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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    .
    "Man is born free and everywhere he is in chains." - Jean Jacques Rousseau

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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by palemale View Post
    Interesting statistic in the document you cite. Over 54% of the minimum wage workers in the country are in the South. The South, of course, has the lowest union density. .
    And, for the most part, the lowest cost of living.

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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Rexx View Post
    That's true.

    But, if we really want rich people to make some "real money," we should bring back slavery.
    There's this pesky thing known as the 13th Amendment that would make that rather difficult. Fortunately, there is nothing in our Constitution, however, that mandates a minimum wage.
    "I shall pass this way but once. Any good that I can do, or any kindness I can give to any human being, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again."

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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by JockBoy87 View Post
    Because money is not the same when you are staving off privation in your own home.

    Let's work on working class poverty before worrying about millionaires contemplating a second yacht.
    Yet another person who has this mythical belief that all business owners are millionaires with a yacht. One of these days reality is going to slap you folks in the face.
    "I shall pass this way but once. Any good that I can do, or any kindness I can give to any human being, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again."

  41. #141

    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    JockBoy -- not all business owners are millionaires. I'm guessing many struggle to make ends meet just as some that might work for them.

    It's not right to categorize and then make judgements based on an image.

    Quote Originally Posted by JockBoy87 View Post
    Because money is not the same when you are staving off privation in your own home.

    Let's work on working class poverty before worrying about millionaires contemplating a second yacht.
    "That’s the good thing about being president. I can do whatever I want.” Barack Obama, 2-10-14

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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    I can guarantee you that if you are involved in collective bargaining for your employees, you are a millionaire.

    Or are there now unions in all the mom and pop businesses too?

    Sheesh

    lol.

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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA Umpire View Post
    Yet another person who has this mythical belief that all business owners are millionaires with a yacht. One of these days reality is going to slap you folks in the face.
    That's called "hyperbole". One of these days reading comprehension is going to slap your folks in the face.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    I have lived and live in reality, which is something JockBoy et. al. refuse to do, so-called hyperbole notwithstanding.
    "I shall pass this way but once. Any good that I can do, or any kindness I can give to any human being, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again."

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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by JayHawk View Post
    The reason most supply is that when Unions are the primary force in obtaining benefits that non union members receive then those non union members essentially get the pluses for no cost or for free.

    It is really not of super consequence since most of the things accomplished by unions are codified into laws these days. Unions were very important in achieving those rights but now that healthcare is going to be law and pensions have already been forfeited there really is no reason to contribute and more unions will die off.

    The only way unions will regain power is for people on the lower economic scale to rise up and demand collective rights again. Until it gets bad enough they will fail to get behind such ideas.

    - - - Updated - - -



    If the job descriptions are the same then the company would be sued for bias.
    I agree with your general overview, however there are some industries which to this day could still greatly benefit from unions. The number of mining operations not operating according to legal safety codes is pretty disturbing, and in many cases they basically get away with it because it's much cheaper for them to fire a whistleblower and pay a fine than to actually begin observing proper safety regulations/procedures.

    People tend to think unions are only about better benefits and forget that people routinely lost fingers and eyes and DIED in the workplace in the pre-union time period.

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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA Umpire View Post
    I have lived and live in reality, which is something JockBoy et. al. refuse to do, so-called hyperbole notwithstanding.
    We reside in reality too.

    There's basically two views on being an employee in the workplace. One viewpoint is you have to pay people enough so that they can have a decent living off their job, and if you have to raise prices or whatever else to make that possible, that's the cost of doing business. The other viewpoint is if you can't make a decent living wage off your job... go get 3 jobs and stop whining about it.

    One of those two viewpoints represents typical life in 1910 sweatshops. Can you guess which one?

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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    People are working 3 jobs not because one employer wouldn't pay them enough; rather, because an anti-jobs president and his minions have made it substantially more expensive to run a business and hire employees. There's a reason food stamps are at an all-time high, poverty is up, unemployment is high, jobs are disappearing, etc., and it's not freedom of choice in the work place that is doing this.
    "I shall pass this way but once. Any good that I can do, or any kindness I can give to any human being, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again."

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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    We reside in reality too.

    There's basically two views on being an employee in the workplace. One viewpoint is you have to pay people enough so that they can have a decent living off their job, and if you have to raise prices or whatever else to make that possible, that's the cost of doing business. The other viewpoint is if you can't make a decent living wage off your job... go get 3 jobs and stop whining about it.

    One of those two viewpoints represents typical life in 1910 sweatshops. Can you guess which one?
    If the product is good enough that it's bringing in great profits, then those profits should be shared with those who actually earned them: the workers. Those who merely invested or who own the company should get enough to be a bit more than comfortable, and no more. This is something Henry Ford understood; he earned only four times what his workers did.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA Umpire View Post
    People are working 3 jobs not because one employer wouldn't pay them enough; rather, because an anti-jobs president and his minions have made it substantially more expensive to run a business and hire employees. There's a reason food stamps are at an all-time high, poverty is up, unemployment is high, jobs are disappearing, etc., and it's not freedom of choice in the work place that is doing this.
    This is talking point nonsense with no basis in reality.

    Btw Papa Johns and all these other dickheads saying they're going to cut employee wages or lay people off so that they can get around Obamacare are not small businesses. Also their statements to that effect have massively hurt their business, and now they're backpedalling hardcore and trying to pull a "we didn't mean it.."

    Oh also working for them sucks and their product sucks. So if their excuse is "we're struggling because of Obama's policies" too bad. Maybe if you weren't selling 6th rate "I'm starving so I don't really care what I eat" pizza and paying people minimum wage to make and deliver it you might be able to have a different business model where you actually pay people decently.

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    Re: Michigan becomes 24th right-to-work state

    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA Umpire View Post
    People are working 3 jobs not because one employer wouldn't pay them enough; rather, because an anti-jobs president and his minions have made it substantially more expensive to run a business and hire employees. There's a reason food stamps are at an all-time high, poverty is up, unemployment is high, jobs are disappearing, etc., and it's not freedom of choice in the work place that is doing this.
    Job availability is low because of the Republican in Congress, who killed about five million jobs in job bills, one of which was drawn right out of the Republican playbook, and would have benefitted million of small businesses.

    And food stamps are at an all-time high because wages are so low people can work full-time and still qualify.

    All the effects you mention are the result of a deliberate campaign by the Republicans in Congress to keep anything good from happening while Obama is in office.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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