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  1. #1
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    SCOTUS to Hear DOMA and PROP 8 [MERGED]

    The Supreme Court will hear DOMA and Prop 8.

    The court will review California's gay marriage ban, which passed in 2008 and has been struck down by two lower courts. The justices will also hear a challenge to the federal Defense of Marriage Act, which prevents the federal government from recognizing state-sanctioned gay marriages.

    Windsor v. United States was brought by Edith Windsor, a resident of New York who paid $363,000 in estate taxes after her wife died because the federal government did not recognize their marriage. New York is one of nine states (and the District of Columbia) where gay marriage is legal, so Windsor argues that the federal government is discriminating against her by not recognizing her state-sanctioned marriage.
    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/s...201555862.html
    Last edited by palbert; December 7th, 2012 at 01:31 PM.

  2. #2

    Re: SCOTUS to Hear DOMA and PROP 8

    I gotta say I'm a little shocked they agreed to hear Hollingsworth v Perry, but I'm not nervous. What may happen is they'll simply rule that defendents lacked standing to appeal the case, so Walker's original ruling would stand and same-sex marriage would resume in California nonetheless.

  3. #3
    Do I dare to eat a peach?
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    Re: SCOTUS to Hear DOMA and PROP 8

    NBC News reports the cases will be argued in March 2013, with a decision expected in late June 2013.

  4. #4
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: SCOTUS to Hear DOMA and PROP 8

    The case selection hmmmm...

    The only thing for them to rule on in Prop 8 is whether the national constitution binds states to uphold equality even if they don't want to. If the answer to that is "yes," it would be the only case they'd need to hear because the final constitutional question would be settled: equality is obligatory.

    If their answer is "no," then equality is optional, and it becomes a question of whether states and the Feds are obliged to accept marriage from equality states. They need the DOMA case to answer that one.

    I don't think this is the best combination for a clear victory.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  5. #5
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: SCOTUS to Hear DOMA and PROP 8

    I'm sure it was discussed to death at the time the prop was actually on the ballot, but I wasn't around for it-- let me say as a Californian that the Prop 8 ads funded by the Knights of Columbus and the various Mormon/religious para-political church pacs and funnelled into California were massively, massively misleading. To the point of being blatantly false and making you believe the law was for something completely different than it actually was. And you couldn't avoid them, they were definitely much more prominent than the ads supporting gay marriage. I don't simply mean they were biased, I mean the entire ad would be about nothing but something like a teacher being told she has to teach kids about being gay and marrying their own gender in school. The entire ad would just be something like that and you'd think the proposition was about mandatory homosexuality education in public schools or something.

    I believe even if prop 8's case has issues as a pure civil rights/SCOTUS case... the very unethical funnelling of national money to screw with an in-state election with a completely illicit ad campaign should be examined as illegal.

  6. #6
    JockBoy87
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    Re: SCOTUS to Hear DOMA and PROP 8

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    The case selection hmmmm...

    The only thing for them to rule on in Prop 8 is whether the national constitution binds states to uphold equality even if they don't want to. If the answer to that is "yes," it would be the only case they'd need to hear because the final constitutional question would be settled: equality is obligatory.
    That was the conclusion of the district judge, but not the appeals court. The appeals decision is the one being appealed here, however.

    Even if a mandate comes, which is extremely unlikely, they would indeed need to take one of the DOMA cases because of our federal system of government. The states do not decide law for the federal government, and in family law the same is true in the other direction.
    Last edited by JockBoy87; December 7th, 2012 at 03:14 PM.

  7. #7
    JubberClubber White Eagle's Avatar
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    BREAKING: Supreme Court will hear DOMA case and Prop 8 case in 2013

    Sorry if this is confused. Just got the email and I've cut my finger pretty good and need to do something about it.

    http://www.freedomtomarry.org/What's Happening Now With Marriage

    by Adam Polaski on December 7, 2012
    BREAKING: Supreme Court will hear DOMA case and Prop 8 case in 2013

    Moments ago, the Supreme Court announced in an order that it has decided to hear the Proposition 8 case and a challenge to the so-called Defense of Marriage Act - Windsor v. United States - in 2013. Now, it is more urgent than ever that we make the same strong case for the freedom to marry in the court of public opinion that our advocates are making in the courts of law.
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

  8. #8
    JubberClubber White Eagle's Avatar
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    Re: BREAKING: Supreme Court will hear DOMA case and Prop 8 case in 2013

    Of course they want a donation, but i gotta go.

    https://secure3.convio.net/afer/site...o4b223.app338a

    The U.S. Supreme Court will hear AFER's case challenging Prop. 8. This news is monumental. Now, more than ever, we need your help.
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

  9. #9

    Re: SCOTUS to Hear DOMA and PROP 8

    Here's my prediction of how they will rule:

    -In Hollingsworth v Perry, they will rule Proponents never had standing, while ignoring the merits of the case. The Supreme Court is very strict with these issues, and the 9th Circuit didn't take it into consideration enough. Walker's original ruling stands and same-sex marriage resumes in California. It's a win-win for the court since it also "kicks the can" down the road a few years in terms of ruling for full marriage equality.

    -In Windsor, they will rule BLAG does have standing to appeal, and thus rule on the merits, striking down Section 3 of DOMA.

  10. #10
    JUB Addict Ninja108's Avatar
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    Re: SCOTUS to Hear DOMA and PROP 8

    Kennedy and perhaps Roberts will be the swing votes. Scalia,Roberts and Alito will be three automatic votes against us.

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    Re: SCOTUS to Hear DOMA and PROP 8

    Going to be landmark case and hope goes our way.

  12. #12
    JubberClubber White Eagle's Avatar
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    Re: SCOTUS to Hear DOMA and PROP 8 [MERGED]

    Well the cut finger was panic. All is well with a bandage. Huh?
    My cut came from trying to fix my car. A neighbor helped.
    Now where were we about SCOTUS. y'all are doing fine, thanks.
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

  13. #13
    JubberClubber White Eagle's Avatar
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    Re: SCOTUS to Hear DOMA and PROP 8 [MERGED]

    Quote Originally Posted by palbert View Post
    The Supreme Court will hear DOMA and Prop 8.



    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/s...201555862.html
    I'm sorry. I didn't take the time to look for your thread. I CUT my finger! I had to get it fixed. Carry on.
    BEWARE! Harassing the Indian may result in sudden and severe hair loss.

  14. #14
    Bammer's Papa
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    Re: SCOTUS to Hear DOMA and PROP 8 [MERGED]

    Quote Originally Posted by scream4ever View Post
    I gotta say I'm a little shocked they agreed to hear Hollingsworth v Perry, but I'm not nervous.
    I'm a bit surprised myself -- the easy way for them would have been to leave it alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    -- let me say as a Californian that the Prop 8 ads funded by the Knights of Columbus and the various Mormon/religious para-political church pacs and funnelled into California were massively, massively misleading. To the point of being blatantly false and making you believe the law was for something completely different than it actually was. And you couldn't avoid them, they were definitely much more prominent than the ads supporting gay marriage. I don't simply mean they were biased, I mean the entire ad would be about nothing but something like a teacher being told she has to teach kids about being gay and marrying their own gender in school. The entire ad would just be something like that and you'd think the proposition was about mandatory homosexuality education in public schools or something.

    I believe even if prop 8's case has issues as a pure civil rights/SCOTUS case... the very unethical funnelling of national money to screw with an in-state election with a completely illicit ad campaign should be examined as illegal.
    As an Oregonian who has suffered through issue campaign after issue campaign with out-of-state money outspending local money by ten or twenty to one, I agree: out-of-state money at the least should be required to follow truth in advertising.

    Quote Originally Posted by scream4ever View Post
    Here's my prediction of how they will rule:

    -In Hollingsworth v Perry, they will rule Proponents never had standing, while ignoring the merits of the case. The Supreme Court is very strict with these issues, and the 9th Circuit didn't take it into consideration enough. Walker's original ruling stands and same-sex marriage resumes in California. It's a win-win for the court since it also "kicks the can" down the road a few years in terms of ruling for full marriage equality.

    -In Windsor, they will rule BLAG does have standing to appeal, and thus rule on the merits, striking down Section 3 of DOMA.
    That would be difficult, because the California Supreme Court decided that the proponents did have standing, and state law is the determiner for state issues.

    I agree on Windsor -- that seems the sensible outcome.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  15. #15
    JockBoy87
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    Re: SCOTUS to Hear DOMA and PROP 8 [MERGED]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    That would be difficult, because the California Supreme Court decided that the proponents did have standing, and state law is the determiner for state issues.
    This is a matter of federal question, specifically Article III sec. 2 of the US Constitution which lists the parties that are able to sue each other.

  16. #16
    Bammer's Papa
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    Re: SCOTUS to Hear DOMA and PROP 8 [MERGED]

    Quote Originally Posted by JockBoy87 View Post
    This is a matter of federal question, specifically Article III sec. 2 of the US Constitution which lists the parties that are able to sue each other.
    If a state has standing, then shouldn't the people whom that state says have standing also have standing?

    Besides that, since the appeal involved the Constitution, doesn't that make it a case of federal law?

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  17. #17
    JockBoy87
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    Re: SCOTUS to Hear DOMA and PROP 8 [MERGED]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    If a state has standing, then shouldn't the people whom that state says have standing also have standing?

    Besides that, since the appeal involved the Constitution, doesn't that make it a case of federal law?
    While influential, the state court has no legal effect on federal courts. The state court determined that the defendants had the right to step in for the state, but the state court does not determine that right for the federal government when it is a matter of federal question. See Federal Preemption.

    I would point you to the record of the live blog on prop8trialtracker. Look for the discussion starting @ 4:31.

    Practically, if the federal court did not find that right for the defendants in Perry, then that would mean the executive branch of government has immense power to overturn laws. I doubt they will dismiss because of lack of standing, unless they really really do not want to decide the issue on the merits now.
    Last edited by JockBoy87; December 7th, 2012 at 10:27 PM.

  18. #18
    JUB Addict gewhite3's Avatar
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    Re: SCOTUS to Hear DOMA and PROP 8 [MERGED]

    So glad to see they are finally taking these cases up, especially DOMA. I think social conservatives should be very worried, but on some of the more conservative forums, they appear to be energized by it.
    Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness!!!

  19. #19
    JockBoy87
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    Re: SCOTUS to Hear DOMA and PROP 8 [MERGED]

    Quote Originally Posted by gewhite3 View Post
    So glad to see they are finally taking these cases up, especially DOMA. I think social conservatives should be very worried, but on some of the more conservative forums, they appear to be energized by it.
    They should not be worried at all, because heteronormativity is a ridiculous thing to be worried about.

  20. #20
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: SCOTUS to Hear DOMA and PROP 8 [MERGED]

    Quote Originally Posted by JockBoy87 View Post
    They should not be worried at all, because heteronormativity is a ridiculous thing to be worried about.
    Rationally that's very true. On the other hand we're talking about people who thought Ellen being on television would turn people gay through the airwaves.

  21. #21
    Bammer's Papa
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    Re: SCOTUS to Hear DOMA and PROP 8 [MERGED]

    Quote Originally Posted by JockBoy87 View Post
    While influential, the state court has no legal effect on federal courts. The state court determined that the defendants had the right to step in for the state, but the state court does not determine that right for the federal government when it is a matter of federal question. See Federal Preemption.

    I would point you to the record of the live blog on prop8trialtracker. Look for the discussion starting @ 4:31.

    Practically, if the federal court did not find that right for the defendants in Perry, then that would mean the executive branch of government has immense power to overturn laws. I doubt they will dismiss because of lack of standing, unless they really really do not want to decide the issue on the merits now.
    Aren't "side effects" fun? Sometimes they're more the issue than the actual issue.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  22. #22
    JockBoy87
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    Re: SCOTUS to Hear DOMA and PROP 8 [MERGED]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Aren't "side effects" fun? Sometimes they're more the issue than the actual issue.
    They enhance the experience.

  23. #23
    JUB Addict Ninja108's Avatar
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    Re: SCOTUS to Hear DOMA and PROP 8 [MERGED]

    We''ll have to wait and see..crossing my fingers and hoping for the best

  24. #24
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: SCOTUS to Hear DOMA and PROP 8 [MERGED]

    It bothers me a bit that all the hate group people are gleefully pointing out that if SCOTUS wanted to strike down Prop 8, they'd just not take the case. At the same time, I believe this is wishful thinking on their part. A SCOTUS decision to overturn Prop 8 could potentially forbid ANY state to strike down already established marriage equality laws.

    Or maybe that's MY wishful thinking. I liked a clip I saw - on Fox of all places - where some woman who I don't know was explaining to Fat Fuck Brian Brown that no, it doesn't take any "reading into the constitution", it takes "just reading it".

    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  25. #25
    JockBoy87
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    Re: SCOTUS to Hear DOMA and PROP 8 [MERGED]

    ^^^Don't be fooled by the suit and slick hair.

    Deep inside, Brian Brown is just a scared little boy. He may not admit it, but he knows his organization's days are numbered right along with DOMA and Prop 8. The reason he will drag it out as long as possible is to collect a salary from the Catholic Church.

    Oh and that's also Fox News...
    Last edited by JockBoy87; December 10th, 2012 at 06:05 PM.

  26. #26
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: SCOTUS to Hear DOMA and PROP 8 [MERGED]

    I'm not fooled. While listening, I was surprised at how unstable his voice sounded. Like he is REALLY afraid.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  27. #27
    JockBoy87
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    Re: SCOTUS to Hear DOMA and PROP 8 [MERGED]

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    I'm not fooled. While listening, I was surprised at how unstable his voice sounded. Like he is REALLY afraid.
    Right.

    Fox has earned a reputation for being unreliable anyway.

    They need new expert prognosticators to become a serious network again.

  28. #28
    Bammer's Papa
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    Re: SCOTUS to Hear DOMA and PROP 8 [MERGED]

    Quote Originally Posted by JockBoy87 View Post
    ^^^Don't be fooled by the suit and slick hair.

    Deep inside, Brian Brown is just a scared little boy. He may not admit it, but he knows his organization's days are numbered right along with DOMA and Prop 8. The reason he will drag it out as long as possible is to collect a salary from the Catholic Church.

    Oh and that's also Fox News...
    I was going to say he's an upgraded playground bully -- but then most playground bullies actually are scared little boys.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  29. #29
    Execuvette Rolyo85's Avatar
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    Re: SCOTUS to Hear DOMA and PROP 8 [MERGED]

    Quote Originally Posted by JockBoy87 View Post
    Right.

    Fox has earned a reputation for being unreliable anyway.

    They need new expert prognosticators to become a serious network again.
    Ironically, they gave HER the closing statement and she casually mopped the floor with his sleazy rhetoric.
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

  30. #30
    JockBoy87
    Guest

    Re: SCOTUS to Hear DOMA and PROP 8 [MERGED]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    I was going to say he's an upgraded playground bully -- but then most playground bullies actually are scared little boys.
    They all have their breaking point.

    scream showed me a link to Maggie Gallagher admitting eventual defeat on marriage equality.

    http://www.joemygod.blogspot.com/201...#disqus_thread

  31. #31
    Bammer's Papa
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    Re: SCOTUS to Hear DOMA and PROP 8 [MERGED]

    Quote Originally Posted by JockBoy87 View Post
    They all have their breaking point.

    scream showed me a link to Maggie Gallagher admitting eventual defeat on marriage equality.

    http://www.joemygod.blogspot.com/201...#disqus_thread
    Given who you mention, I'd phrase it that she's admitting defeat on marriage discrimination.

    I totally disagree with her WRT Prop 8, though.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  32. #32

    Re: SCOTUS to Hear DOMA and PROP 8 [MERGED]

    Justice Anthony Kennedy denies Prop 8 proponents expanded brief space while opponents get double the amount:

    http://www.scotusblog.com/2013/01/wh...-are-too-many/

    A good sign perhaps? Methinks yes.

  33. #33
    Bammer's Papa
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    Re: SCOTUS to Hear DOMA and PROP 8 [MERGED]

    ^
    They should have known better than to have even asked.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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