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Thread: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

      
   
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariatenebre View Post
    The difference is the Jews are not trying to destroy all Palestinians and would have let the Palestinians live in peace in their own country. The Euros wanted to take all of the land from the Native Americans and wanted to ice them all.
    Please explain to me the difference between what you just said and reservations.

    Also I am aware of Ghost Dance but that was along time ago. The majority of Native Americans did not want to murder all Euros and non Natives. Point in fact the two societies are not comparable. The Native Americans were a pro gay, pro female and reasonable civilization where as the Pallys kill gays, unsubmissive women and are rabid theocrats.
    What does time have to do with it? All you saying "that was a long time ago" tells me is that if you were alive in 1840 you'd be saying the Indians don't deserve to have their rights considered either because the U.S. has tried to make peace with them many times (i.e. treaties they repeatedly broke by refusing to stop white squatters from going over the border and settling on it, and then using those settlements as the excuse to demand more land cessions) and they're just hellbent on war and blood.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by iwantbig View Post
    so when did the pallys " usurp " this land ?
    Depends on how you look at it. Really it's just the currents of empire sweeping people around.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Depends on how you look at it. Really it's just the currents of empire sweeping people around.
    Today, a Hamas leader returned to Gaza City pledging to never recognize Israel and free Palestine "inch-by-inch".

    Kids dressed in military uniforms and martyrs carried mock scud missiles in celebration of the returning Hamas leader.

    Nice, peace loving Hamas, huh?

    Remember, Hamas does not want ANY part of Israel to exist. How can anyone attempt to negotiate with people refusing your own self determination?

    http://photoblog.nbcnews.com/_news/2...s-to-gaza?lite

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by nafhoosier View Post
    Today, a Hamas leader returned to Gaza City pledging to never recognize Israel and free Palestine "inch-by-inch".

    Kids dressed in military uniforms and martyrs carried mock scud missiles in celebration of the returning Hamas leader.

    Nice, peace loving Hamas, huh?

    Remember, Hamas does not want ANY part of Israel to exist. How can anyone attempt to negotiate with people refusing your own self determination?

    http://photoblog.nbcnews.com/_news/2...s-to-gaza?lite
    Since it apparently escaped both Mariatenbre AND yourself, this thread is not about saying Hamas is great. However Hamas does not represent all or even most of Palestinians by most accounts so.... if your defense of the status quo is "Hamas is bad" the issues in discussion remain.

    Repeatedly beating the dead horse of Hamas not being a huggy-friendly organization worthy of a Peace Prize (Israel's gov't isn't either btw) has no relevancy really when the issues impacting Palestinians as a whole are not just affecting Hamas membership.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    yeah i think the topic is about israel continual encroaching their settlements on palestinian land !
    my original comment was prompted by an israeli woman who stood on a hillside and quoted that a " god " told someone several thousand years ago that all he could see from this point was to be his families land .
    It seems that this is the mentality that many use to justify ignoring borders set in more recent history.
    its not about Hamas or whether israel has a right to exist or the constant excuse that the borders that were set were defendable.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Since it apparently escaped both Mariatenbre AND yourself, this thread is not about saying Hamas is great. However Hamas does not represent all or even most of Palestinians by most accounts so.... if your defense of the status quo is "Hamas is bad" the issues in discussion remain.

    Repeatedly beating the dead horse of Hamas not being a huggy-friendly organization worthy of a Peace Prize (Israel's gov't isn't either btw) has no relevancy really when the issues impacting Palestinians as a whole are not just affecting Hamas membership.
    I thought this was originally a thread about criticizing Israel's settlements and ending the occupation as well.....

    Until the inevitable "Israel must be wiped off the map" comment was made earlier (then deleted) and then the legitimacy of the ENTIRE state of Israel of course is questioned.

    Oh well, since we veered off topic anyway, I figured bringing up Hamas's tactics would have been fair game.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by nafhoosier View Post
    I thought this was originally a thread about criticizing Israel's settlements and ending the occupation as well.....

    Until the inevitable "Israel must be wiped off the map" comment was made earlier (then deleted) and then the legitimacy of the ENTIRE state of Israel of course is questioned.

    Oh well, since we veered off topic anyway, I figured bringing up Hamas's tactics would have been fair game.
    I don't think Hamas is "off topic" per se, I do however think that defending anything Israel does with "well look at Hamas, they're bad" doesn't cut it when Israel isn't exactly just doing police work and arresting dangerous Hamas terorrists. They're engaging in policies which (depending on your interpretation of their motives) is either collective punishment or a rather naked attempt to steal more land permanently under the guise of "defending themselves from terrorism."

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    It seems to me that Israel prefers to do whatever they want, then ask for "permission" after the fact.

    Expecting FULL WELL, the United States Foreign Policy is going to 'back them" no matter what.


    And even if the U.S. doesn't, Israel still has enough American Made fire power, to make whatever decision any current U.S. Presidential Administration makes irrelevant, so it doesn't really matter in the long term at this point.

    So it kind of begs the question: If it's proven (at some point) that Iran has "the bomb" and Israel flies American made fighter jets and "glasses Tehran" to "defend their position in the Middle East as a "Jewish State" will any of this matter?

    Damned straight it will!

    Personally?

    I think that Israel is being irresponsible.
    Never regret anything, because in that moment it's exactly what you wanted.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    I'm pretty sure that Israel will attack Iran in the coming months. They don't want the estimation of how long it will take Iran to make their first nuclear bomb to run out without doing anything about it.

    It will only be air-strikes on nuclear facilities. Whether that will end up in a full blown war or not is difficult to say.

    It's very hypocritical of them of course to think they should be the only middle eastern nation allowed to have nukes.
    Last edited by Laufey; December 10th, 2012 at 07:24 AM.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    They cannot risk their lives and national existence to avoid you opinion of hypocrisy. Israel probably has the bomb, but they have not used it. Is is hard to be confident that Iran will not use it, and Israel should not take that chance in the light of Iran's repeated threats of destruction.
    But it is not clear that Israel can end the Iran nuclear threat, which is spread out and said to be largely underground. By waiting, it has allowed Iran to become very powerfull in conventional weapons. If it attacks, it may be compeled to make an all out nuclear attack with everything it has. Anything less will suject Israel to massive retaliation, joined by Syria, humas, Hesbolla, Egypt and others.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Are you talking about the same Iran which hasn't started a war in over 200 years?

    Yeah we should definitely fear them more than countries like Israel and the US

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Geiri85 View Post
    I'm pretty sure that Israel will attack Iran in the coming months. They don't want the estimation of how long it will take Iran to make their first nuclear bomb to run out without doing anything about it.

    It will only be air-strikes on nuclear facilities. Whether that will end up in a full blown war or not is difficult to say.

    It's very hypocritical of them of course to think they should be the only middle eastern nation allowed to have nukes.
    Perhaps. But a nation with a president who advocates genocide and which supplies people happy to blow themselves up definitely should not have nukes.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Again... Iran's crimes in modern history are minor to countries like Israel and US.

    And everybody should know by know that the quote on Iran's president about wiping out Israel was taken out of context... although some Islamphobic people have a hard time letting go of it.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Perhaps. But a nation with a president who advocates genocide and which supplies people happy to blow themselves up definitely should not have nukes.
    That president who the media portrays as "advocating genocide" is actually of Jewish heritage.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Geiri85 View Post
    Again... Iran's crimes in modern history are minor to countries like Israel and US.

    And everybody should know by know that the quote on Iran's president about wiping out Israel was taken out of context... although some Islamphobic people have a hard time letting go of it.
    Which quote would that be -- the one in an interview, the one at a US university, or one of the ones at the UN? You can claim one of those was taken out of context, but he's said it more than once, in different ways.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by JustMe5 View Post
    That president who the media portrays as "advocating genocide" is actually of Jewish heritage.
    "Portrays"?

    He portrays himself that way, with statements like Israel must be wipe out, Israel will be eliminated, and so on.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    He wants Israel in it's currents form not to exist anymore... but has never said it should be wiped out with warfare.

    I love how you don't comment on Iran never starting a war in modern history.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Geiri85 View Post
    I love how you don't comment on Iran never starting a war in modern history.
    I don't comment on jokes.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    He portrays himself that way, with statements like Israel must be wipe out, Israel will be eliminated, and so on.
    Does this look like someone who's advocating genocide against Jews?


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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Perhaps. But a nation with a president who advocates genocide and which supplies people happy to blow themselves up definitely should not have nukes.
    Making policy decisions around the rhetoric statements of a powerless figurehead who is just a crowd-pleaser for the people actually in power seems like a mistake to me. Or a pretext for policies that aren't actually supported by true need.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Geiri85 View Post
    He wants Israel in it's currents form not to exist anymore... but has never said it should be wiped out with warfare.

    I love how you don't comment on Iran never starting a war in modern history.
    Iran, in its present form has only existed since the 70s. Its prior history is irrelevant. The problem is not limited to the speeches of its leaders. The big problem is its relentless pursuit of nuclear bomb simultaneously with its promises to destroy Israel. And the threats are from the Ayatollah as well.
    When did they ever limit the threats to Israel in its present form? What formwould be acceptible? One in which Jews would be a minority?
    Let us never forget that the area was Christian and Jewish, not muslim when Mohammud was born. It only became muslim when a muslim army subjugated the area by military force and forced the inhabitants to convert.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Please explain to me the difference between what you just said and reservations.



    What does time have to do with it? All you saying "that was a long time ago" tells me is that if you were alive in 1840 you'd be saying the Indians don't deserve to have their rights considered either because the U.S. has tried to make peace with them many times (i.e. treaties they repeatedly broke by refusing to stop white squatters from going over the border and settling on it, and then using those settlements as the excuse to demand more land cessions) and they're just hellbent on war and blood.
    The difference between what I said and reservations is that the Pallys could have had their own country and rule themselves. The US never wanted peace with the Native Americans nor wanted to give them dominance over their own land. Plus Native Americans were never really allowed to live in peace and with equal rights in America like the Jews allowed the Pallys.

    Next first of all not all of the Native Americans believed in the ideology of the Ghost Dance. In fact the Native Americans were in many cases far too nice to the Europeans. They for the most part did not want every settler man, woman and child dead. The Israelis unlike the Americans have tried to make peace and would have gladly given them their own land and stop settlers. However the Palestinians do not want this but want them dead. If Palestine agreed to peace then the fighting would stop, but if Israel lays down it's arms then they would be blown away by the Muslims around them. The Native Americans wanted peace many times but they would never be given it by the settlers until recently.

    Also I should ask you how many Native American suicide bombers have you seen recently?

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Why should Israel "allow" Palestinians anything? Palestinians were there first, weren't they?
    That we are capable only of being what we are, remains our unforgivable sin.
    - Gene Wolfe

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Geiri85 View Post
    I'm pretty sure that Israel will attack Iran in the coming months. They don't want the estimation of how long it will take Iran to make their first nuclear bomb to run out without doing anything about it.

    It will only be air-strikes on nuclear facilities. Whether that will end up in a full blown war or not is difficult to say.

    It's very hypocritical of them of course to think they should be the only middle eastern nation allowed to have nukes.
    They are the only nation in the Middle East that deserves to have nukes. They for one need them to protect themselves and it goes without saying that only, secular and free nations deserve nukes and not genocidal maniacs who want to take over the world. Letting Iran have nukes would be like letting Nazi Germany, or North Korea have nukes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Geiri85 View Post
    Are you talking about the same Iran which hasn't started a war in over 200 years?

    Yeah we should definitely fear them more than countries like Israel and the US
    Just because Iran has not started a war recently. Which really has to do with the fact that they do not have enough power to do so, dosen't mean that they are not dangerous. In fact they have said that they wish to destroy Israel and cause a genocide against Jews, as well as take over the world for Islam. Yes we should fear them more then free and secular nations like Israel and the US. Of course as a typical Liberal you will side with racist, gay haters, who kill unsubmissive women, brutalize their people and wish to take over the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by Geiri85 View Post
    Again... Iran's crimes in modern history are minor to countries like Israel and US.

    And everybody should know by know that the quote on Iran's president about wiping out Israel was taken out of context... although some Islamphobic people have a hard time letting go of it.
    Oh Iran's crimes in history are minor compared to countries like Israel and the US hug. Are you speaking of the same Iran that finances terrorism, brutally harms it's civililians, kills gays, unsubmissive and unveiled women, and brutalizes religious minorities. They have done less crimes then us. The US and Israel has really done nothing at all in compared to the crimes against humanity that Iran does on a daily basis. Of course you would support racist gay killers over free and secular nations.

    Also none of the quotes were taken out of context. Here is a list of all the genocidal quotes he gave.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud...jad_and_Israel
    Quote Originally Posted by Geiri85 View Post
    He wants Israel in it's currents form not to exist anymore... but has never said it should be wiped out with warfare.

    I love how you don't comment on Iran never starting a war in modern history.
    Ahmadinejad says he wants Israel completely destroyed as well as all Jews. He even refered to them as subhuman and supported the Holocaust. One of the buddies of your favorite place is David Duke who supported the Iranians and even supported a Holocaust denial conference there. So remember that these are the people who you support.

    Further more as I said just because they haven't started a war in a while because they don't have the power to dosen't change the fact that he has said that when he gets the power he will.
    Quote Originally Posted by JustMe5 View Post
    Does this look like someone who's advocating genocide against Jews?

    Do you know who these Jews are? These are anti Zionist Jews who openly wish for the destruction of Israel. Those are the Jews that Ahmadinejad is helping. Ahmadinejad has even buddied with Christian Neo Nazis such as David Duke but that dosen't mean that he supports Christianity. It merely means he is using anyone he can to fight against Jews and Israel including self hating Jews.
    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Making policy decisions around the rhetoric statements of a powerless figurehead who is just a crowd-pleaser for the people actually in power seems like a mistake to me. Or a pretext for policies that aren't actually supported by true need.
    He is not a mere figure head. He is head of the country and he has said many times that he wishes to destroy Israel and conquer the world. The question is not whether we will be fighting Iran or not. The question is whether we will be fighting Iran with nukes or without.
    Quote Originally Posted by iwantbig View Post
    so when did the pallys " usurp " this land ?
    The Arabs invaded and drove the Jews out of the Middle East and subjected the rest to dhimmitude during the Middle Ages. They also drove out Christians and other religious groups as well. Mohammad himself ordered Muslims to expell the Jews and Christians from the Middle East.
    Quote Originally Posted by Geiri85 View Post
    They have a historic claim at least for the Gaza strip. Back when ancient Israel existed they referred to the area as the tribe of Philistines. The 12 tribes of Israelite's did not rule it.

    Although it's just the Gaza strip... a lot of what is Israel today has more historic ties with the Arabs than the Jews. The religious books of Judaism, Islam and Christianity all speak of the holy land as the area between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea. So pretty much everything south of Beer Sheva was Arab land and the twelve tribes did not occupy it. It's almost half the size of the current Israel-Palestine area.
    First of all the ancient Philistines were of Greek origin not Arab. The modern Arabs that occupy the land now are recent dwellers of the land.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Why should Israel "allow" Palestinians anything? Palestinians were there first, weren't they?
    No they weren't the first there. The Jews and Canaanites were there first. The Arabs came later when they drove the Jews out.
    Last edited by Mariatenebre; December 10th, 2012 at 06:46 PM.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Um, I was talking of modern times, not Biblical...

    And I love how you say that a country that invades and steals another country's territory, "deserves" to have nukes to "protect" itself. True, aggressors have a need to protect themselves too.
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by JustMe5 View Post
    Does this look like someone who's advocating genocide against Jews?

    So he's schizo.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Um, I was talking of modern times, not Biblical...

    And I love how you say that a country that invades and steals another country's territory, "deserves" to have nukes to "protect" itself. True, aggressors have a need to protect themselves too.
    They didn't steal anything to begin with. Israel always had a strong Jewish presence even after many Jews were expelled by the Arabs. The land was given to the Jews because they desperately needed a homeland as well as to give Jews in the area a place to live free from Arab persecution. Said Palestinians could have lived in peace as Israelis or could have had their own country. In fact historically there never was a state called Palestine. They were always ruled by foreign rulers such as the Jordanians and Ottomans. It was only when they were under Jewish rule did the Muslims have a problem.

    This is one of my favorite videos as it debunks much of these claims against Israel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    So he's schizo.
    The so called Jews he is helping are basically the equivalent of a Jewish Uncle Ruckus. They are vehemently anti Israel, anti secularism etc and want to see Israel destroyed. Ahmadinejad has been friendly with many non Muslim groups such as Neo Nazi groups and people such as David Duke. In fact David Duke spoke glowingly of Iran and it's people. So to Geiri and the rest remember that these Nazi Muslims are the people who you support.
    Last edited by Mariatenebre; December 10th, 2012 at 07:19 PM.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Wait, so Palestinians, just like Jews, didn't have a country there, but our arbitrary support of Israel means only Jews should have a right to one, and also that they should be given free rein to bomb and attack the neighbor territory to grab more land?

    Got ya.
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Wait, so Palestinians, just like Jews, didn't have a country there, but our arbitrary support of Israel means only Jews should have a right to one, and also that they should be given free rein to bomb and attack the neighbor territory to grab more land?

    Got ya.
    First of all there are many Muslim homelands. Over 50 as a matter of fact, so these Pallys could easily go to one of them. Point in fact many have and they are treated far worse then in Israel in many cases. Israel is the only homeland for Jewish people in the whole world. Further more as I mentioned before Israel has constantly tried to forge peace with the Pallys, but the Pallys do not want peace. They want war and to destroy all Jews. It is in the Hamas charter. Israel like anyone in a war with an aggressive enemy has the right to take land to protect themselves.

    Further more there was a nation of Israel in antiquity. There was never a nation called Palestine run by Arabs. The ancient Philistines point in fact were of Greek origin and Palestine is a Greek name not Arab.

    Also I must say I love how these gays are defending Palestine. A miserable place that ravenously butchers gays and hate Israel, the only country in the Middle East with any form of gay rights. Plus since the Pallys support Nazi like actions to Jews they are clear anti semites as well.
    Last edited by Mariatenebre; December 10th, 2012 at 08:22 PM.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    So Palestinians should just gtfo of the land that was stolen from them because they can go somewhere else. Jews can also go in any number of other countries that are Jewish-controlled. Oh wait. They have. Hence why this country is brainwashed into supporting one terrorist state over another. Because of... reasons.
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    So Palestinians should just gtfo of the land that was stolen from them because they can go somewhere else. Jews can also go in any number of other countries that are Jewish-controlled. Oh wait. They have. Hence why this country is brainwashed into supporting one terrorist state over another. Because of... reasons.
    Except as I mentioned before the land was not stolen from them. The land always had a strong Jewish presence and said Palestinians could have lived in Israel under Jewish rule and in fact many do. However they chose not to because of their hate for Jews. The UN gave the Jews their rightful piece of land Israel and the Pallys could have had their own nation as well if they did not want Jewish blood. Said land was created to give Jews in this area and all over the world a place free of persecution as well as to give back the land the Arabs had stolen from them.

    Also aside from Israel there is no other nation that is Jewish controlled. Israel is the only one in the world where as there are many places that are Muslim controlled. Israel is also not a terrorist state, it has sent aid to Palestine (which has always been hijacked by Hamas) and unlike Palestine Israel tries hard not to take civilians casualties. The terrorists are the genocidal, Jew hating, anti gay Pallys not the pro gay, secular and democratic Israel.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariatenebre View Post
    Except as I mentioned before the land was not stolen from them. The land always had a strong Jewish presence and said Palestinians could have lived in Israel under Jewish rule and in fact many do. However they chose not to because of their hate for Jews. The UN gave the Jews their rightful piece of land Israel and the Pallys could have had their own nation as well if they did not want Jewish blood. Said land was created to give Jews in this area and all over the world a place free of persecution as well as to give back the land the Arabs had stolen from them.
    But is it or isn't it true that the land had just as strong Palestinian presence as well? And how about the UN give the Native Americans a huge chunk of the States then? Only fair, wouldn't you say?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariatenebre View Post
    Also aside from Israel there is no other nation that is Jewish controlled. Israel is the only one in the world where as there are many places that are Muslim controlled. Israel is also not a terrorist state, it has sent aid to Palestine (which has always been hijacked by Hamas) and unlike Palestine Israel tries hard not to take civilians casualties. The terrorists are the genocidal, Jew hating, anti gay Pallys not the pro gay, secular and democratic Israel.
    Hey, you know what's awesome? Not propaganda speech. "Gay hating"? For realz?

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    But is it or isn't it true that the land had just as strong Palestinian presence as well? And how about the UN give the Native Americans a huge chunk of the States then? Only fair, wouldn't you say?



    Hey, you know what's awesome? Not propaganda speech. "Gay hating"? For realz?

    The Palestinian presence was from Arabs who displaced the Jews. Further more the Pallys could have been under Jewish rule and could have been given their own country but they refused because they wanted all Jews gone. Further more Native Americans in America live in peace and equality plus they even have their own lands where their tribes rule. Jews have never been treated well by the Arabs in the area. Hell the Mufti of Jerusalem even aided Hitler in the Holocaust.

    Next ok so now you deny the fact that Palestine is anti gay!
    http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Israel,_Palestine,_and_Gays
    http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Persecutio...uthority_area)

    Remember that these are the people that you support.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Do I support them? Wherever have I supported them? I am just saying Israel is just as bad, except the US has this unconditional and illogical support for it, so we have to resort to painting Palestinians as baby-eaters (hence my comment about your "anti-gay" propaganda, it's not that I'm disagreeing).

    And no, Native Americans do not have any of these things you mentioned. They are treated as dirt, and there is not a foot of land on the continent that BELONGS to them as a sovereign state. Basically what you said was a lie ^_^
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Native Americans live on reservations we forced them onto after stealing thier land.

    They don't live in "peace and equality," anymore than anyone else and quite a bit less than most - reservations have huge substance abuse, poverty, and unemployment issues, they "rule," so long as you define that by saying that Indian laws don't apply to anyone but Indians - even on the reservations.

    Arabs and Jews are COUSINS, and all of them have been wandering around Palestine forever, fighting over that little strip of desert forever.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The US supports Israel because, well, why do we support Israel?

    OH YEAH, it's full of emigre Europeans. Israel is far more western than Arab cultures because of all the Jews from the west who moved there.
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Do I support them? Wherever have I supported them? I am just saying Israel is just as bad, except the US has this unconditional and illogical support for it, so we have to resort to painting Palestinians as baby-eaters (hence my comment about your "anti-gay" propaganda, it's not that I'm disagreeing).

    And no, Native Americans do not have any of these things you mentioned. They are treated as dirt, and there is not a foot of land on the continent that BELONGS to them as a sovereign state. Basically what you said was a lie ^_^
    LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE!!!!

    There is only FOR ME or AGAINST ME!!!

    ARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!!
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariatenebre View Post
    Except as I mentioned before the land was not stolen from them. The land always had a strong Jewish presence and said Palestinians could have lived in Israel under Jewish rule and in fact many do. However they chose not to because of their hate for Jews. The UN gave the Jews their rightful piece of land Israel and the Pallys could have had their own nation as well if they did not want Jewish blood. Said land was created to give Jews in this area and all over the world a place free of persecution as well as to give back the land the Arabs had stolen from them.

    Also aside from Israel there is no other nation that is Jewish controlled. Israel is the only one in the world where as there are many places that are Muslim controlled. Israel is also not a terrorist state, it has sent aid to Palestine (which has always been hijacked by Hamas) and unlike Palestine Israel tries hard not to take civilians casualties. The terrorists are the genocidal, Jew hating, anti gay Pallys not the pro gay, secular and democratic Israel.
    I hate answering [Text: Removed by Moderator], but this is substantially overstated.

    When Israel was begun, many locals had fled to get out of the way of the fighting. When they came back afterward, many found that their homes and land had been appropriated by Jews, and there was no appeal. Things went along fairly well after that until the pre-emptive strike called the Six-Day War, when Israel took charge of land occupied by people they'd earlier deprived of their property, along with many others. As time went by they got used to having all that, and the religious factions constantly reminded them God had given it to Moses, so the government let the pressure off the steam kettle of the Religious Right by starting the program of settlements.

    And there the theft of land began again. Those living on it weren't given a choice; they were told to move, period, because Jews were moving in. Whether they were actually paid for it is irrelevant; eminent domain does not apply to acquiring real estate for religious extremists. So it was theft, or extortion; call it what you will, but it was acquisition by coercion, and that's immoral.

    Regardless of what one thinks about Israel, only the willingly blind will argue that no injustice has been done. Israel has been the aggressor more than once, to the point that arguably it is the cause of its own troubles. And one way or another, that injustice has to be redressed.
    Last edited by opinterph; December 10th, 2012 at 09:10 PM. Reason: removed demeaning personal characterization

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Poor Kuli, you also simply don't understand that if you criticize Israel, you are a Hamas loving anti-Semite gay hater misogynist, who pisses on teddy bears.

    Sad.
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    Do I support them? Wherever have I supported them? I am just saying Israel is just as bad, except the US has this unconditional and illogical support for it, so we have to resort to painting Palestinians as baby-eaters (hence my comment about your "anti-gay" propaganda, it's not that I'm disagreeing).

    And no, Native Americans do not have any of these things you mentioned. They are treated as dirt, and there is not a foot of land on the continent that BELONGS to them as a sovereign state. Basically what you said was a lie ^_^
    Israel is not as bad by a long shot. Israel does not teach it's children on kid's shows to be suicide bombers, or to kill all Jews, Israel has tried many times for peace but has always been rejected by the Pallys, Israel has sent numerous aid to Israel (all of which has been hijacked by Hamas) and tries to avoid civilians casualties where as Palestinians are proud of Jewish civilian casualties.

    Next I am aware of the poverty in many Native American lands however they still have their own lands and many of them do thrive there. Native Americans are granted by law full equal rights. Jews are certainly not granted equal rights by Hamas. In fact Hamas has in it's charter the complete genocide of Jews.
    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    Native Americans live on reservations we forced them onto after stealing thier land.

    They don't live in "peace and equality," anymore than anyone else and quite a bit less than most - reservations have huge substance abuse, poverty, and unemployment issues, they "rule," so long as you define that by saying that Indian laws don't apply to anyone but Indians - even on the reservations.

    Arabs and Jews are COUSINS, and all of them have been wandering around Palestine forever, fighting over that little strip of desert forever.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The US supports Israel because, well, why do we support Israel?

    OH YEAH, it's full of emigre Europeans. Israel is far more western than Arab cultures because of all the Jews from the west who moved there.
    In actuality I do support giving Native Americans more land. I have much more love and respect for Native American Pagan culture then I do for Protestant Christian culture. Also I have never said that Native Americans had it totally easy here. They have problems but there are many places where Native Americans do live and thrive. Which under the constituition it is illegal to discriminate against someone because they are Native Americans.

    Next we support Israel because it is the only free, secular and democratic country in the Middle East. Which might I add it has more people living there then just Europeans but is full of Jews of many other backgrounds.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    I hate answering [Text: Removed by Moderator], but this is substantially overstated.

    When Israel was begun, many locals had fled to get out of the way of the fighting. When they came back afterward, many found that their homes and land had been appropriated by Jews, and there was no appeal. Things went along fairly well after that until the pre-emptive strike called the Six-Day War, when Israel took charge of land occupied by people they'd earlier deprived of their property, along with many others. As time went by they got used to having all that, and the religious factions constantly reminded them God had given it to Moses, so the government let the pressure off the steam kettle of the Religious Right by starting the program of settlements.

    And there the theft of land began again. Those living on it weren't given a choice; they were told to move, period, because Jews were moving in. Whether they were actually paid for it is irrelevant; eminent domain does not apply to acquiring real estate for religious extremists. So it was theft, or extortion; call it what you will, but it was acquisition by coercion, and that's immoral.

    Regardless of what one thinks about Israel, only the willingly blind will argue that no injustice has been done. Israel has been the aggressor more than once, to the point that arguably it is the cause of its own troubles. And one way or another, that injustice has to be redressed.
    I have never said that the Israelis did everything right or never abused the Palestinians. What I am saying though is that for the most part the Israelis have behaved more morally then the Pallys and atleast seem to atone for their mistakes. Where as the Pallys have no desire for peace and prosperity with the Israelis.
    Last edited by Mariatenebre; December 10th, 2012 at 09:17 PM.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    But is it or isn't it true that the land had just as strong Palestinian presence as well? And how about the UN give the Native Americans a huge chunk of the States then? Only fair, wouldn't you say?
    Before the founding of Israel, "Palestinian" was not a people, nor was it for quite a while afterward. The word meant everyone living there, whether Arab, Persian, Jew, or whoever.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Jews in Israel were perfectly fine with terrorism when the British were ruling them.

    Maria, you don't know any Native Americans do you. I do, they don't talk about the rez like that, they want their continent back.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariatenebre View Post

    Next I am aware of the poverty in many Native American lands however they still have their own lands and many of them do thrive there. Native Americans are granted by law full equal rights. Jews are certainly not granted equal rights by Hamas. In fact Hamas has in it's charter the complete genocide of Jews.
    No. Native Americans do NOT own land AS A PEOPLE. They have NO country of their own, just American territory where they have been FORCEFULLY settled. Repeating a lie won't make it true.
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    It's a huge temptation to overlook the whole fracking thing just because we would no longer need to give a fuck about the Middle East.
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    No. Native Americans do NOT own land AS A PEOPLE. They have NO country of their own, just American territory where they have been FORCEFULLY settled. Repeating a lie won't make it true.
    Reservations, and their mineral rights, are held in Trust for Indians, administered by the Fed. They are NOT in control of their reservations. Every Indian in the country is technically a ward of the state.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post

    Before the founding of Israel, "Palestinian" was not a people, nor was it for quite a while afterward. The word meant everyone living there, whether Arab, Persian, Jew, or whoever.
    And Jews owned no land at all, so point is moot. It's all European guilt plus delegating a purely Western problem to the Middle East.
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    Jews in Israel were perfectly fine with terrorism when the British were ruling them.

    Maria, you don't know any Native Americans do you. I do, they don't talk about the rez like that, they want their continent back.
    In actuality my mother married a man who is very visibly has Native American blood and my half brother brother has visible Native features as well. I also have Native American ancestry though I am predominantly white.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    No. Native Americans do NOT own land AS A PEOPLE. They have NO country of their own, just American territory where they have been FORCEFULLY settled. Repeating a lie won't make it true.
    Do Native Americans have a right to by and own land here in the US. They most certainly do. I never said they had a country of their own however they do own their own territories. Which might I add I would be in favor of giving Natives more land.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rolyo85 View Post
    And Jews owned no land at all, so point is moot. It's all European guilt plus delegating a purely Western problem to the Middle East.
    However Jews did have this land in the past before they driven out. The goal was to give the Jews a homeland free of persecution. Plus antisemitism was not merely a Western problem. Antisemetism in the Muslim world was around since Islam's very birth.
    Last edited by Mariatenebre; December 10th, 2012 at 09:24 PM.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Yeah well I know a bunch of actual ethnic N.A. who grew up on reservations and what they say bears no resemblance to what you say.

    You are getting slammed because you have a huge glaring double standard.
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    Yeah well I know a bunch of actual ethnic N.A. who grew up on reservations and what they say bears no resemblance to what you say.

    You are getting slammed because you have a huge glaring double standard.
    I never said that all Native Americans had it easy in America. In fact in many cases they are treated badly. However under the official law of the United States you can not discriminate against anyone on the basis of race and that includes Native Americans. However it is a lie to say that Native Americans have absolutely no power or influence in America.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    You approve of the things that European Jews brought to Isreal from the west - which is pretty much everything about civil liberties, but you've never asked yourself what the Jews who never left thought about that - you'll find it's little different from what you hate about Arab cultures.

    Humanist Ideals came from Europe, not semetic ethnicities or religions.

    But you also excuse Israeli aggression because of your own personal issues.

    It's possible to dislike the things both sides have done wrong without being the kind of partisan you seem to be.
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariatenebre View Post
    I never said that all Native Americans had it easy in America. In fact in many cases they are treated badly. However under the official law of the United States you can not discriminate against anyone on the basis of race and that includes Native Americans. However it is a lie to say that Native Americans have absolutely no power or influence in America.
    Really? How many N.A. officials are there? And I mean the real ethnic Indian kind, not just white people who like to claim some Indian "ancestry."
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