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  1. #51
    JUB Addict JohnnyAnger's Avatar
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by palemale View Post
    I guess they don't teach the history of British occupation of Ireland in British schools. It is a pretty sordid affair.
    .
    They really do not teach anything to do with it apart from the Easter Rising. I think this may simply be because it may still be a tad to close to home for a lot of people teaching it, you have to remember the last bomb to go off in Britain was 1996 and the army is still occupy the Northern states of Ireland. It would be a bit political to try and teach this to 16 year olds, but I do think people are learning more and more about our horrible actions on the North.

  2. #52

    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyAnger View Post
    They really do not teach anything to do with it apart from the Easter Rising. I think this may simply be because it may still be a tad to close to home for a lot of people teaching it, you have to remember the last bomb to go off in Britain was 1996 and the army is still occupy the Northern states of Ireland. It would be a bit political to try and teach this to 16 year olds, but I do think people are learning more and more about our horrible actions on the North.
    That is probably not unique to the UK. We never learned the gory details of the Civil Rights movement in school, either. For example, I'm sure few Americans are aware that state and local government officials were often complicit in lynchings of African Americans, that crowds of Southerners would come out to the square with their children to watch extra-judicial hangings of people never convicted of a crime, and that white juries would not convict cold blooded white murderers if their victim was black.

    I suspect France doesn't teach all the details of the Algerian War, and Japan doesn't teach about WWII atrocities it committed.

    My point, though, is that Israel is isolated and relatively weak compared to the UK, Russia and China, who all have ongoing occupations of other peoples and countries yet do not get wide spread condemnation for it.

  3. #53
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by TX-Beau View Post
    HA I did answer your question, you are now trying to qualify the terms to make it look impossible to disagree - or perhaps to convince yourself that other people are intractable and unreasonable, whatever. Fuck that. You're proposing a fundamental violation of people's civil liberties, because you don't like their beliefs.

    Hate speech that incites to various things is already illegal - and that's applied no matter your beliefs (or is supposed to be.) But first you have to DO SOMETHING, and in this country at least you are not under legally sanctioned suspicion of guilt for DOING NOTHING just because Maria doesn't like you.

    Which is why we aren't them, no matter how much you want us to be.
    I'd be interested in knowing if there are countries represented here where at least some of Maria's posts would be considered hate speech.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  4. #54
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariatenebre View Post
    Islam is a hateful and violent religion, so is Christianity, Judaism and Zoroastrianism. However not all adherents of these religions are hateful and violent and when it comes to matters of security we need to search the backgrounds of said adherents and makes sure that they do not cosign with the hateful ideas found in said religions or ideologies. We should not treat them unfairly when dealing with them but we need to know who we are dealing with.
    Please give citations showing that the core teachings of Christianity and Judaism are hateful and lead to violence, or be considered either ignorant or lying.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  5. #55
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Mariatenebre, take the idea you are proposing about Muslims, and apply it to Christians to check their backgrounds to see if they have any ties to radical militias or anything else.

    Now think about the size and the scope of the invasive disregard for people's rights that would be entailed in implementing that type of check system across borders, airports, everywhere.

    And tell me how that would be any different from Germans making Jews walk around with the Star of David and be questioned and harassed everywhere.

    Also, who gets to decide which "connections" are dangerous? You? You have basically indicated that any Palestinian is essentially suspect, if not worse, of either supporting violence or at least potentially supporting violence, so your solution is to take whole countries and lock them up?

    Just think about how nuts this idea is.
    It would take an absolute autocracy to make it work.

    Except people wouldn't put up with an absolute autocracy, and would strike back. I don't think Maria would like what the angry populace would do to her for advocating the elimination of their liberty.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  6. #56
    JUB Addict Lestatnj's Avatar
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    I'd be interested in knowing if there are countries represented here where at least some of Maria's posts would be considered hate speech.
    I think the UK might qualify?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_sp...United_Kingdom

    And Canada maybe?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_Canada

  7. #57
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Lestatnj View Post
    Sure looks like it.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  8. #58
    JUB Addict cgymike's Avatar
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Sure looks like it.
    I agree...it not only looks like it. It's a fact.
    Your post comments are forwarded to the CIA.

  9. #59
    Sex God AngolaZee's Avatar
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky

    Noam Chomsky

    Avram Noam Chomsky (born December 7, 1928) is an American linguist, philosopher,cognitive scientist, logician, historian, political critic, and activist. He is an Institute Professor and Professor (Emeritus) in the Department of Linguistics & Philosophy at MIT, where he has worked for over 50 years.
    Being Jewish, Chomsky faced anti-semitism as a child, particularly from the Irish and German communities living in Philadelphia; he recalls German "beer parties" celebrating the fall of Paris to the Nazis.
    http://www.chomsky.info/articles/20121104.htm

    Even a single night in jail is enough to give a taste of what it means to be under the total control of some external force. And it hardly takes more than a day in Gaza to begin to appreciate what it must be like to try to survive in the world’s largest open-air prison, where a million and a half people, in the most densely populated area of the world, are constantly subject to random and often savage terror and arbitrary punishment, with no purpose other than to humiliate and degrade, and with the further goal of ensuring that Palestinian hopes for a decent future will be crushed and that the overwhelming global support for a diplomatic settlement that will grant these rights will be nullified.
    please read the rest of the article at the url provided. If you have the chance I suggest you read the rest of the articles Chomsky has written on a broad range of issues.. Hopefully it opens your eyes
    Last edited by opinterph; December 6th, 2012 at 03:59 PM. Reason: added quote tags

  10. #60
    Sex God Mariatenebre's Avatar
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Please give citations showing that the core teachings of Christianity and Judaism are hateful and lead to violence, or be considered either ignorant or lying.
    Well that's easy.

    http://www.evilbible.com/Ritual_Human_Sacrifice.htm
    http://www.evilbible.com/Rape.htm
    http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm

    Jesus himself like Mohammad supported murdering those who would not accept him as ruler.

    Luke 19:27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.'"
    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    I'd be interested in knowing if there are countries represented here where at least some of Maria's posts would be considered hate speech.
    I am for hate speech. We have a right to hate any group out there. Where I draw the line is with people encouraging violence against innocent civilians.
    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Mariatenebre, take the idea you are proposing about Muslims, and apply it to Christians to check their backgrounds to see if they have any ties to radical militias or anything else.

    Now think about the size and the scope of the invasive disregard for people's rights that would be entailed in implementing that type of check system across borders, airports, everywhere.

    And tell me how that would be any different from Germans making Jews walk around with the Star of David and be questioned and harassed everywhere.

    Also, who gets to decide which "connections" are dangerous? You? You have basically indicated that any Palestinian is essentially suspect, if not worse, of either supporting violence or at least potentially supporting violence, so your solution is to take whole countries and lock them up?

    Just think about how nuts this idea is.
    I actually support checking Christians for violent ties as well. I am not saying that we should force any group to wear any piece of clothing or to be harassed. However I do think that everyone. Not just Jews, Christians or Muslims but everyone when they are in a security procedure should be checked to see what their ties are and if they support any violent group.

    Next I have never said that all Palestinians are suspect. Only the Muslims who actively support Hamas as well as violence. I don't want anyone to be locked up unless they have actually done something. However I do think that everyone when they enter a place of high security should be screened.
    Last edited by Mariatenebre; December 6th, 2012 at 08:53 PM.

  11. #61
    CE&P Secret Police xbuzzerx's Avatar
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    You've effectually said that group suspicion/group punishment is acceptable in the case of Palestinians vis-a-vis Israeli policies because of *insert multiple generalizations.*

    I don't see why you're backpedalling now and saying you're not for persecuting entire groups based on the possibility that some portion of them might have dangerous ideas or ties to violent groups.

  12. #62
    Sex God AngolaZee's Avatar
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariatenebre View Post
    I am for hate speech. We have a right to hate any group out there.
    And yet you are quick to run to the moderators when overwhelmed with facts

  13. #63
    Sex God Mariatenebre's Avatar
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by AngolaZee View Post
    And yet you are quick to run to the moderators when overwhelmed with facts
    Excuse me I never run to the moderators. I handle my own buisness here and never report to the moderators even when someone has said something terrible to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    You've effectually said that group suspicion/group punishment is acceptable in the case of Palestinians vis-a-vis Israeli policies because of *insert multiple generalizations.*

    I don't see why you're backpedalling now and saying you're not for persecuting entire groups based on the possibility that some portion of them might have dangerous ideas or ties to violent groups.
    I specifically said that racial profiling is wrong. Palestinian is an ethnicity not an ideology and there are many Palestinians with different views.

    All I am saying is that when people are going through high security measures. Their ideologies as well as if they have links or support terrorism should be known.
    Last edited by Mariatenebre; December 6th, 2012 at 09:46 PM.

  14. #64
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariatenebre View Post
    Well that's easy.

    http://www.evilbible.com/Ritual_Human_Sacrifice.htm
    http://www.evilbible.com/Rape.htm
    http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm

    Jesus himself like Mohammad supported murdering those who would not accept him as ruler.

    Luke 19:27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.'"
    Propagating lies, I see.

    I'll start with the claim about Jesus: He was telling a story to make a point. He did not suggest that as a course of action.

    *No human sacrifice was ever made to God in the Old Testament.
    *None of the examples given in your "rape" link were about rape -- they were about marriage in a fashion common to the times. In actuality they show mercy and honor, because more often captive women were taken as concubines with little more status than sex toys; God required the people to give them the status of wives.
    *Virtually all of the "murder" claims are also lies. There are a few cases which seem bizarre to us, and arguably can be called murder.


    It's amazing that you pass judgment on things about which you haven't the slightest clue, so you accept and pass on lies from people even more ignorant.

    Since you've shown you have no actual knowledge of what you're talking about, and that you both approve of and engage in hate speech, no one here should give the slightest credence to anything you say. Hateful people who speak from bigotry with no knowledge should be ignored -- commonly they're called trolls, and you just qualified.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  15. #65
    Sex God AngolaZee's Avatar
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Israel is the one trying to wipe out Palestine and has almost succeeded and yet here you are saying the Palestinians are the bad ones because they want to wipe out Israel. Big difference between wanting to do something and actually doing it. Israel has done it despite the complaints of many in the international community.

    You dont see the Palestinians as a people on their own who are fighting for their land you are obsessed with proxy wars where the Arab world is using Palestine as a pawn against Israel. You also think Palestine = Hamas which is obviously every shallow observation. I told you in another thread it is not in the interests of Israel to have peace in the Middle East, they wont be able to steal land that way. If Israel was such a civilized country with well meaning intentions why wont they allow the International Atomic Energy Agency to inspect their nuclear weapons. And yet they expect Iran to submit to the same

    Israel and USA have a long history of aggression and mass violence against other countries, Iran on the other hand has very little if any. Is this all because other countries are envious of those two? Or those two like to meddle where they shouldn't.

  16. #66
    Sex God Mariatenebre's Avatar
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Propagating lies, I see.

    I'll start with the claim about Jesus: He was telling a story to make a point. He did not suggest that as a course of action.

    *No human sacrifice was ever made to God in the Old Testament.
    *None of the examples given in your "rape" link were about rape -- they were about marriage in a fashion common to the times. In actuality they show mercy and honor, because more often captive women were taken as concubines with little more status than sex toys; God required the people to give them the status of wives.
    *Virtually all of the "murder" claims are also lies. There are a few cases which seem bizarre to us, and arguably can be called murder.


    It's amazing that you pass judgment on things about which you haven't the slightest clue, so you accept and pass on lies from people even more ignorant.

    Since you've shown you have no actual knowledge of what you're talking about, and that you both approve of and engage in hate speech, no one here should give the slightest credence to anything you say. Hateful people who speak from bigotry with no knowledge should be ignored -- commonly they're called trolls, and you just qualified.
    Actually human sacrifice was common not just to Yahweh but to many gods in the Middle Eastern religion.
    http://www.satan4u.8m.com/history/priests.html

    Next forcing women into marriages classifies as a form of rape. Mohammad in Islam forcibly married and raped the Jewish woman Safiyah. If you consider what Mohammad did to be rape then what the Hebrews did qualifies as well. Plus many verses speak of taking women as sex slaves.

    Moses here even supports infanticide as well as outright genocide of the Midianites.

    2) Murder, rape and pillage of the Midianites (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)



    They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.



    Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.



    Clearly Moses and God approves of rape of virgins.


    Next I never said I approve of all hate speech morally, however certain groups and ideologies deserve hatred. What I said was that hate speech should be legal and not a criminal offense as some of the countries you mentioned were

    You like most LGBT Christians white wash and try to make the Bible more palatible for modern people. You are not the only ones who do this however. Many Muslims try to skew the Quran to make it look peaceful as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by AngolaZee View Post
    Israel is the one trying to wipe out Palestine and has almost succeeded and yet here you are saying the Palestinians are the bad ones because they want to wipe out Israel. Big difference between wanting to do something and actually doing it. Israel has done it despite the complaints of many in the international community.

    You dont see the Palestinians as a people on their own who are fighting for their land you are obsessed with proxy wars where the Arab world is using Palestine as a pawn against Israel. You also think Palestine = Hamas which is obviously every shallow observation. I told you in another thread it is not in the interests of Israel to have peace in the Middle East, they wont be able to steal land that way. If Israel was such a civilized country with well meaning intentions why wont they allow the International Atomic Energy Agency to inspect their nuclear weapons. And yet they expect Iran to submit to the same

    Israel and USA have a long history of aggression and mass violence against other countries, Iran on the other hand has very little if any. Is this all because other countries are envious of those two? Or those two like to meddle where they shouldn't.
    Israel is not trying to wipe out Palestine. The Israelis have at many times tried to make peace with the Palestinians but the Palestinians have refused because they want war and blood. Also you proved nothing about it being better for Israel to have war. Israel suffers greatly because they have war and lose many of their people. They are at constant threat of being blown away by their Muslim neighbors. Plus Israel has actually sent numerous ammounts of aid to Palestine which has all been confiscated by Hamas. Israel has the right to take the land of a nation that is choosing to war with them. The Palestinians could have had peace and their own country long ago but they refuse because they want war.

    As for Israel and nukes I support Israel having nukes as they need them to protect themselves. However third world despotisms like Iran certainly should not have nukes as the Iranians have made it clear that they want to overtake the world for their brand of Shia Islam. Iran also has had problems with many nations after they became under control of the Islamists. Israel and the USA are free secular nations who do not go looking for violence. However gay murdering, anti semetic and intolerant of other religions Iran has made it clear that their goal is to Islamize the world. It is clear that you like most Liberals are in support of third world despotisms, that kill gays, Jews, disbelivers and treat their people barbarically so long as they are Muslims.
    Last edited by Mariatenebre; December 6th, 2012 at 10:05 PM.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariatenebre View Post
    Israel is not trying to wipe out Palestine. The Israelis have at many times tried to make peace with the Palestinians but the Palestinians have refused because they want war and blood.
    Mariatenbre, you need to take a closer look at American history.

    There are many Native American tribes which to this day maintain that no treaty (or at least no honored one by the U.S. government) legally ceded their land. The U.S. is still trying to get the Lakota to cash a check in exchange for like the 19th century value of stealing the Black Hills and the Lakota refuse to do it.

    In your reasoning it would be because "they want war and blood." In reality it's because cashing that check would be legitimizing the theft of their land, legally. They will never do it.

    Is it really so hard to imagine that maybe similar considerations are at work here beyond just irrational wide-eyed insanity and wanting to put Israelis on spears?

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Maria, repeating the same lies does you no good.

    But BTW, I learned to read the Bible as a conservative Christian. Conservative principles of exegesis are what I apply in exposing your lies, nothing else.



    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Just_Believe18 View Post
    What is particularly upsetting about settlements in Israel is that once these buildings are put in place, you create permanent Jewish residencies that will not be removed. Of course this is going to upset the Palestinians because it makes them feel like they're being enclosed and bred out.
    I'm sure the settlers will do fine under their new government when the lands are returned to Palestinian governance.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    ^Such a shame on that pic. Those are some birth baby hips there.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariatenebre View Post
    Israel is not trying to wipe out Palestine.
    Really so why are they building settlements in Palestinian land? Why were they opposed to Palestine being recognized as an observer state by the UN? Thirty years ago Israeli political leaders, including some of the most noted hawks, submitted to Prime Minister Begin a shocking and detailed account of how settlers regularly abuse Palestinians in the most depraved manner and with total impunity. The prominent military-political analyst Yoram Peri (Israeli) wrote with disgust that the army’s task is not to defend the state, but “to demolish the rights of innocent people just because they are Araboushim (“niggers,” “kikes”) living in territories that God promised to us.”

    Israel suffers greatly because they have war and lose many of their people. They are at constant threat of being blown away by their Muslim neighbors.
    Really I don't see a Hamas air force bombing Israel but I do see Israel bombing Palestinian civilians and Hamas shooting rockets to dissuade the occupation and theft of Palestinian land. I don't see Israel losing thousands of lives due to war but I do see it in Gaza. Israel uses people in settlements as human bargaining chips. If they cared so much for their safety they would not encourage them to live in Palestinian land

    Plus Israel has actually sent numerous ammounts of aid to Palestine which has all been confiscated by Hamas.
    Israel prevents Gaza fishermen from complete freedom to fish in Gazan territorial waters. They don't want aid they want freedom to make their own food. They are compelled to fish in waters that are heavily polluted because of US-Israeli refusal to allow reconstruction of the sewage and power systems that they destroyed. Israel permits concrete to enter for UNRWA projects, but not for Gazans engaged in the huge reconstruction needs. The limited heavy equipment mostly lies idle, since Israel does not permit materials for repair. All of this is part of the general program described by Israeli official Dov Weisglass, an adviser to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, after Palestinians failed to follow orders in the 2006 elections: “The idea,” he said, “is to put the Palestinians on a diet, but not to make them die of hunger.” . In the Khan Yunis hospital, the director, who is also chief of surgery, describes with anger and passion how even medicines are lacking for relief of suffering patients, as well as simple surgical equipment, leaving doctors helpless and patients in agony.

    Israel has the right to take the land of a nation that is choosing to war with them.
    Shortly before the outbreak of the Intifada a Palestinian girl, Intissar al-Atar, was shot and killed in a schoolyard by a resident of a nearby Jewish settlement. He was one of the several thousand Israelis settlers brought to Gaza in violation of international law and protected by a huge army presence, taking over much of the land and scarce water of the Strip and living “lavishly in twenty-two settlements in the midst of 1.4 million destitute Palestinians,”The murderer of the schoolgirl, Shimon Yifrah, was arrested, but quickly released on bail when the Court determined that “the offense is not severe enough” to warrant detention. The judge commented that Yifrah only intended to shock the girl by firing his gun at her in a schoolyard, not to kill her, so “this is not a case of a criminal person who has to be punished, deterred, and taught a lesson by imprisoning him.” Yifrah was given a 7-month suspended sentence, while settlers in the courtroom broke out in song and dance.


    The Palestinians could have had peace and their own country long ago but they refuse because they want war.
    Their own country along which borders? The devil is always in the detail which you conveniently ignore. In 2008 a truce was established between Israel and Hamas. The Israeli government formally recognizes that Hamas observed it fully. Not a single Hamas rocket was fired until Israel broke the truce under cover of the US election on November 4 2008, invading Gaza on ludicrous grounds and killing half a dozen Hamas members. The Israeli government was advised by its highest intelligence officials that the truce could be renewed by easing the criminal blockade and ending military attacks. But the government of Ehud Olmert, reputedly a dove, chose to reject these options, preferring to resort to its huge comparative advantage in violence: Operation Cast Lead. The basic facts are reviewed once again by foreign policy analyst Jerome Slater in the current issue of the Harvard-MIT journal International Security.The pattern of bombing under Cast Lead was carefully analyzed by the highly informed and internationally respected Gazan human rights advocate Raji Sourani. He points out that the bombing was concentrated in the north, targeting defenseless civilians in the most densely populated areas, with no possible military pretext. The goal, he suggests, may have been to drive the intimidated population to the south, near the Egyptian border. But the Samidin stayed put, despite the avalanche of US-Israeli terror.

    Israel and the USA are free secular nations who do not go looking for violence.
    Nentanyahu has made it clear time and time again that Israel is a Jewish state so you are obviously wrong here. What rock are you leaving under.

    We must end the terrorism, racism and ethnic cleansing being perpetrated by Israel. The playing field is obviously not level.The people of Palestine are strategically terrorised by the most powerful military in the Middle East
    Last edited by AngolaZee; December 6th, 2012 at 11:34 PM.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by bankside View Post
    I'm sure the settlers will do fine under their new government when the lands are returned to Palestinian governance.
    I still wish they'd try a non-geographical state approach. It would set a standard for the future.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    its all been justified because a " god " told them it was their land , sounds fair to me

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by iwantbig View Post
    its all been justified because a " god " told them it was their land , sounds fair to me
    Many Palestinians claim Israel is Islamic land, including Hamas.

    What makes either side right? I don't get why only the Jews get picked on for the "God" argument.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by nafhoosier View Post
    Many Palestinians claim Israel is Islamic land, including Hamas.

    What makes either side right? I don't get why only the Jews get picked on for the "God" argument.
    The double standard offends me frankly that someone doing violence under a thin religious pretext with a makeshift rocket launcher is a 'terrorist' (with all the attached freedom to overreact, over-retaliate and conduct collective punishment and crackdowns) but someone doing the same thing with a first-world military is just "defending their state/right to exist."

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    I was pleased to read yesterday that Canada has formally objected to the building of more settlements.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Thank you AngolaZee for writing something so coherent and truthful. I wish more on here were so well read thoughtful on topics.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by nafhoosier View Post
    Many Palestinians claim Israel is Islamic land, including Hamas.

    What makes either side right? I don't get why only the Jews get picked on for the "God" argument.
    Because it's much more common for Jews to think it's their land, their land alone to rule.

    Christians and Muslims on the other hand are more likely to believe it belongs to all three religions.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by iwantbig View Post
    its all been justified because a " god " told them it was their land , sounds fair to me
    There are secular and atheist Jews who also believe that the territory of ancient Israel is their homeland, because that's where they were formed as a people.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Geiri85 View Post
    Because it's much more common for Jews to think it's their land, their land alone to rule.

    Christians and Muslims on the other hand are more likely to believe it belongs to all three religions.
    Christians more so -- though there's the weird streak of Christians who are more fanatic about it all belonging to the Jews than all but the most extreme among the Jews in Israel.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    I still wish they'd try a non-geographical state approach. It would set a standard for the future.
    That's interesting but impossible to explore in this thread. I'm making a thread about it!
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    The double standard offends me frankly that someone doing violence under a thin religious pretext with a makeshift rocket launcher is a 'terrorist' (with all the attached freedom to overreact, over-retaliate and conduct collective punishment and crackdowns) but someone doing the same thing with a first-world military is just "defending their state/right to exist."
    I have zero tolerance for the use of human shields, which Hamas engages in. They shoot their rockets from Mosques, schools, and civilian homes. I see little of you on here mentioning that part of the story. Israel is targeting the terrorists (yes, terrorists) who shoot the rockets into the country. They even give warning signals to civilians to leave their homes (of which most do).

    I'm not excusing the civilian deaths in Gaza or brushing them off, nor am I saying everything Israel did this past month was justified.

    But you CANNOT condemn Israel in this situation without equally condemning Hamas, which again, few of you guys on here are doing.

    Also, do any of you guys know how Turkey threatened Syria with bombs recently? Again, any country would retaliate similar to how Israel did if another government were sending bombs into their borders.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Geiri85 View Post
    Because it's much more common for Jews to think it's their land, their land alone to rule.

    Christians and Muslims on the other hand are more likely to believe it belongs to all three religions.
    Yeah, those extremely tolerant and peace loving Christians and Muslims.

    You have absolutely ZERO evidence for this claim, ZERO. Did you conduct a scientific study from Jews, Muslims, and Christians all over the world?

    Jerusalem was originally an International city upon Israel's founding in 1948.... upon which the Jews were happy with and the Arabs weren't.

    Again, many on this board need a history lesson.

    In reality sir, it's really more the Jews who were happy with it belonging to all three religions and the Muslims thinking it should be theirs.

    I'm an Atheist, but I do know how to be fair. Muslims have Mecca, Catholics have Rome, Jews have a Jerusalem. Big freaking deal. Get over it.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by nafhoosier View Post
    Jerusalem was originally an International city upon Israel's founding in 1948.... upon which the Jews were happy with and the Arabs weren't.
    So happy they went to war to control the whole city? Neither side were happy with any agreements given, just the difference is the majority of Arabs were locals who happened to live there and the Jews were displaced European immigrants with a feeling of entitlement for a land they left thousands of years ago.

    The whole blaming one side as terrorists in this always strikes me as odd due to the fact the Israeli state was founded by paramilitary terrorists, the Irgun. I don't fully support Hamas, as I have quite a few problems with the Muslim Brotherhood on the whole. But I don't condemn rocket attacks as the last port of call when you live in an open air prison with zero access to supplies and your land slowly stolen from you, and as soon as you peacefully protest the IDF fire tear gas and whatever other horrid weapons they have developed, then when you don't run away from this threat and return again with peaceful protests they open fire and kill your kid brother or sister, mother and father.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by nafhoosier View Post
    I have zero tolerance for the use of human shields, which Hamas engages in. They shoot their rockets from Mosques, schools, and civilian homes. I see little of you on here mentioning that part of the story. Israel is targeting the terrorists (yes, terrorists) who shoot the rockets into the country. They even give warning signals to civilians to leave their homes (of which most do).

    I'm not excusing the civilian deaths in Gaza or brushing them off, nor am I saying everything Israel did this past month was justified.

    But you CANNOT condemn Israel in this situation without equally condemning Hamas, which again, few of you guys on here are doing.

    Also, do any of you guys know how Turkey threatened Syria with bombs recently? Again, any country would retaliate similar to how Israel did if another government were sending bombs into their borders.
    Are you seriously asserting there have been equal or greater Israeli casualties than Palestinian ones in the last half century from this conflict?

    Because otherwise I don't really see how you can make a moral highground stand for one side against the other when both essentially make precisely the same argument for the conflict.

    In my opinion-- yes, I can condemn Israel similarly if not equally-- if not harsher. Because the Palestinians don't get to enforce their political will via a first world military virutally handed to them and heavily subsidized by the United States.
    Last edited by xbuzzerx; December 7th, 2012 at 02:42 PM.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by nafhoosier View Post
    But you CANNOT condemn Israel in this situation without equally condemning Hamas, which again, few of you guys on here are doing.
    Ah, but those of us who do more than make up for the rest.

    Hamas should be turned into fertilizer for the Sinai, so any Palestinians who want to relocate to somewhere sane can have lawns and gardens. I think freeze-drying while still alive would be a good way to start the process.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Are you seriously asserting there have been equal or greater Israeli casualties than Palestinian ones in the last half century from this conflict?

    Because otherwise I don't really see how you can make a moral highground stand for one side against the other when both essentially make precisely the same argument for the conflict.
    The number of casualties isn't relevant; the means of attack and the positioning of weapons for aggression is.

    One thing that should be noted, something I don't think anyone has mentioned, is that there really isn't much room in Gaza for positioning weapons that isn't already occupied by something for civilian use. That doesn't excuse Hamas from deliberately using human shields, but it points out a difficulty in the situation.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    The number of casualties isn't relevant; the means of attack and the positioning of weapons for aggression is.

    One thing that should be noted, something I don't think anyone has mentioned, is that there really isn't much room in Gaza for positioning weapons that isn't already occupied by something for civilian use. That doesn't excuse Hamas from deliberately using human shields, but it points out a difficulty in the situation.
    The tactics involved tend to lose their relevancy in the historical judgment if the side using them is a formal power with a military in uniform, and if they're successful.

    I do not "like" terrorist tactics, I do not "think they're good." However I do recognize the simple fact that if you don't have a military and you feel backed up into a corner and your future threatened, tactics we'd all call "terrorist" will emerge.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Many movements resorted to "terror" to gain freedom and independence from occupiers. E.g the ANC of Nelson Mandela in South Africa. At first they were seen as terrorist because thats the term the oppressors used to refer to them as, of course when the wool came off from the international communities eyes it became clear who the real terrorist were.

    I do not consider violence used to gain what is rightfully yours from those who refuse to give it you to be terrorism. I consider it to be justified retaliation. However if you come to my land of birth (Israel), bulldoze my house, kick me out of the country I was born in and then follow me to the "country" (Palestine) you expelled me to, steal my land there as well, bulldoze my house AGAIN. That is terrorism right there

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    The tactics involved tend to lose their relevancy in the historical judgment if the side using them is a formal power with a military in uniform, and if they're successful.

    I do not "like" terrorist tactics, I do not "think they're good." However I do recognize the simple fact that if you don't have a military and you feel backed up into a corner and your future threatened, tactics we'd all call "terrorist" will emerge.
    I sometimes think the Palestinians would do better to form a formal militia, and the next time the IDF comes into Gaza, march out to formally oppose it, armed civilians defending their homes in plain sight opposing an armored menace -- if full light of world news cameras.

    A similar approach worked for Gandhi.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by AngolaZee View Post
    Many movements resorted to "terror" to gain freedom and independence from occupiers. E.g the ANC of Nelson Mandela in South Africa. At first they were seen as terrorist because thats the term the oppressors used to refer to them as, of course when the wool came off from the international communities eyes it became clear who the real terrorist were.

    I do not consider violence used to gain what is rightfully yours from those who refuse to give it you to be terrorism. I consider it to be justified retaliation. However if you come to my land of birth (Israel), bulldoze my house, kick me out of the country I was born in and then follow me to the "country" (Palestine) you expelled me to, steal my land there as well, bulldoze my house AGAIN. That is terrorism right there
    This is what makes me wish there were a way to sneak a high-tech team into that block where the Muslims worship a black rock, and inscribe on the wall, "Be good to the Jews, neighbors to them, for I, Allah, called them first."

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    Mariatenbre, you need to take a closer look at American history.

    There are many Native American tribes which to this day maintain that no treaty (or at least no honored one by the U.S. government) legally ceded their land. The U.S. is still trying to get the Lakota to cash a check in exchange for like the 19th century value of stealing the Black Hills and the Lakota refuse to do it.

    In your reasoning it would be because "they want war and blood." In reality it's because cashing that check would be legitimizing the theft of their land, legally. They will never do it.

    Is it really so hard to imagine that maybe similar considerations are at work here beyond just irrational wide-eyed insanity and wanting to put Israelis on spears?
    There is a big difference between the Native Americans and the Palestinians. First of all the Jews always owned this land before they were displaced by the Arabs and Romans and even still there was still a large Jewish presence in this land. Further more the Palestinians could have lived in peace in Israel and in their own country and many Palestinians do live in peace in Israel. However the Muslim Pallys want to destroy all of Israel because they will never accept Jewish rule even though the so called Palestinians were always under foreign rule by such nations as the Jordanians and Ottomans.

    The Lakota do not want to kill the white settlers and totally drive all non Natives into the sea as the Pallys do. No Native American tribe as far as I know has it in their tribe's charter the destruction of all Euro's and the destruction of America. Plus even if they do not want to cash the check the Lakota still live in peace with us. You don't see any Native American tribe fireing rockets into America or suicide bombing us, killing innocent civilians etc. There is a clear difference between the Native Americans who always owned this land not cashing a check, but still living in peace and governing themselves, and the Pallys who usurped this land and wanting all Jews, men women and chidlren dead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kulindahr View Post
    Maria, repeating the same lies does you no good.

    But BTW, I learned to read the Bible as a conservative Christian. Conservative principles of exegesis are what I apply in exposing your lies, nothing else.


    I have not repeated the same lies. All major Biblical scholars accept the fact that humans sacrifice, murder, rape etc was sanctioned in the Bible. Hell the story of Jephthah's daughter is a clear example of a human girl being offered as a burt offering to Yahweh because her father made a vow to sacrifice the first thing that came through his door and unfortunately it was his daughter.
    Last edited by Mariatenebre; December 7th, 2012 at 08:18 PM.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariatenebre View Post
    There is a big difference between the Native Americans and the Palestinians. First of all the Jews always owned this land before they were displaced by the Arabs and Romans and even still there was still a large Jewish presence in this land. Further more the Palestinians could have lived in peace in Israel and in their own country and many Palestinians do live in peace in Israel. However the Muslim Pallys want to destroy all of Israel because they will never accept Jewish rule even though the so called Palestinians were always under foreign rule by such nations as the Jordanians and Ottomans.
    So, the good Injuns were the ones who peacefully accepted conquest, the bad ones were the ones who fought?

    The Lakota do not want to kill the white settlers and totally drive all non Natives into the sea as the Pallys do.
    You really do need to look back at history again.

    No Native American tribe as far as I know has it in their tribe's charter the destruction of all Euro's and the destruction of America. Plus even if they do not want to cash the check the Lakota still live in peace with us. You don't see any Native American tribe fireing rockets into America or suicide bombing us, killing innocent civilians etc. There is a clear difference between the Native Americans who always owned this land not cashing a check, but still living in peace and governing themselves, and the Pallys who usurped this land and wanting all Jews, men women and chidlren dead.
    Look up "Ghost Dance." See what that was all about.

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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariatenebre View Post
    I have not repeated the same lies. All major Biblical scholars accept the fact that humans sacrifice, murder, rape etc was sanctioned in the Bible. Hell the story of Jephthah's daughter is a clear example of a human girl being offered as a burt offering to Yahweh because her father made a vow to sacrifice the first thing that came through his door and unfortunately it was his daughter.

    "Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

    --Jonathan Rauch, Salon Magazine, March 13, 2000

    *the number is now forty

  45. #95
    Sex God Mariatenebre's Avatar
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by xbuzzerx View Post
    So, the good Injuns were the ones who peacefully accepted conquest, the bad ones were the ones who fought?



    You really do need to look back at history again.



    Look up "Ghost Dance." See what that was all about.
    The difference is the Jews are not trying to destroy all Palestinians and would have let the Palestinians live in peace in their own country. The Euros wanted to take all of the land from the Native Americans and wanted to ice them all.

    Also I am aware of Ghost Dance but that was along time ago. The majority of Native Americans did not want to murder all Euros and non Natives. Point in fact the two societies are not comparable. The Native Americans were a pro gay, pro female and reasonable civilization where as the Pallys kill gays, unsubmissive women and are rabid theocrats.

  46. #96
    PerScientiam AdJustitiam bankside's Avatar
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Mariatenebre View Post
    The difference is the Jews are not trying to destroy all Palestinians and would have let the Palestinians live in peace in their own country.
    Utter fantasy. Might as well be talking about gargamel and the smurfs if this is it.
    Americans need to keep their guns so they can protect themselves from gun violence just like Nancy Lanza did. And like Chris Kyle did. And like Gabby Giffords did. And like Tom Clements did. And like Michael Piemonte. And Joseph Wilcox.

  47. #97
    The Mother of Loki Laufey's Avatar
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    There are plenty of Jews who would like nothing more than to turn all of Palestinian land into Jewish settlements. There are also plenty of Palestinians who would like all of it to belong to them.

    But you can't generalize like Maria does.

  48. #98
    Porn Star nafhoosier's Avatar
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Geiri85 View Post
    There are plenty of Jews who would like nothing more than to turn all of Palestinian land into Jewish settlements. There are also plenty of Palestinians who would like all of it to belong to them.

    But you can't generalize like Maria does.
    Yeah, it seems like a lot of people on here agree with those particular Palestinians who want nothing more than to annihilate all of Israel and take back all the land, having all Jews live under Islamic control.

    Both sides will have to make concessions in order for there to be peace.

    Israel will have to stop expanding settlements and give up land that closer resembles the 1967 borders than it does not.

    Palestinians will have to recognize that there DOES deserve to be a Jewish state the size of a crumb and that not all of the freakin' refugees will be able to return to their homes within the 1967 borders of Israel.

    Both sides suffer, both sides win. It's call reality and anyone who thinks otherwise is simply delusional.

  49. #99
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    so when did the pallys " usurp " this land ?

  50. #100
    The Mother of Loki Laufey's Avatar
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    Re: 5 Nations Condemn Israel's Settlement" Plan

    They have a historic claim at least for the Gaza strip. Back when ancient Israel existed they referred to the area as the tribe of Philistines. The 12 tribes of Israelite's did not rule it.

    Although it's just the Gaza strip... a lot of what is Israel today has more historic ties with the Arabs than the Jews. The religious books of Judaism, Islam and Christianity all speak of the holy land as the area between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea. So pretty much everything south of Beer Sheva was Arab land and the twelve tribes did not occupy it. It's almost half the size of the current Israel-Palestine area.
    Last edited by Laufey; December 8th, 2012 at 04:32 AM.

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